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Re: Has there ever been a Native American "drumming" session at a major ECK semi

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  • jonathanjohns96
    Prometheus, I just wanted to clarify to everybody that I wasn t trying to defend Eckankar when they canceled the drumming session. I was just trying to get
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 30, 2009
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      Prometheus,

      I just wanted to clarify to everybody that I wasn't trying to defend Eckankar when they canceled the drumming session. I was just trying to get into their head to try to figure out what kooky reason they had for canceling it. Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time engaged in that same process through the 29 years that I was a member

      I agree completely with your statement "Anyway, it just goes to show how religions like to control their followers via rules, laws, guidelines, guilt, and fear. Eckankar has the RESA Hierarchy (Police) to keep everyone on their "track."


      As you stated, you and the other Eckists who were looking forward to the session saw it as something innocent, and whatever energy was going to be brought to the surface was a reflection of the Eck. I'm glad you mentioned that because I wasn't even thinking in those terms. Of course you were thinking in those terms! You were Eckists at an Eck seminar! So, yes, it does show how fanatical Eckankar is when it comes to enforcing the rule "the teachings of Eckankar must be kept pure."

      But when evaluating the whole situation, I also saw that it might be a general reflection of American sociey's overal lack of understanding and respect for Native American culture.
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Jonathan and All, Yes, the attempt to do a drumming circle was an innocent act, and it was meant to be fun! And, I ve been at ones where there was NO
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 2, 2009
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        Hello Jonathan and All,
        Yes, the attempt to do a "drumming
        circle" was an innocent act, and it was
        meant to be fun! And, I've been at ones
        where there was NO chanting just drumming!
        I find them interesting in that the drumming
        (sound) starts out as individualized/group
        chaos and then harmonizes into a Unity of
        Consciousness. It's a metaphor... for the
        spiritual life.

        Getting back to the use of fear and
        control tactics of religions and of Eckankar:

        Did Eckankar use metal detectors at the
        2009 EWWS? I always thought that was an
        over-the-top/knee-jerk reaction (a security/
        fear tactic) for Klemp to use after 9/11.

        Why should "God" (the Mahanta) be fearful
        of anything or anyone? Couldn't/wouldn't/
        shouldn't Rebazar and the other EK Masters
        manifest themselves to protect Klemp?
        Shouldn't HK be able to protect himself
        and his chelas on the outer, as well as
        (supposedly), on the inner? HK states
        that his "protection" is with his followers.
        But, where's the proof when H.I.s are dying
        of cancer etc. Actually, this is proof that
        Klemp is a liar. Guilt puts blame on the
        chela/H.I. for the cancer (besides, it's a
        "test" of faith) while Klemp dodges his
        promises and responsibilities.

        However, doubt began to creep into Eckists'
        consciousness when the "metal detectors"
        and "searches" began. This created more
        questioning of Klemp's abilities, and his
        truthfulness (as the LEM/Mahanta) began
        to be doubted even more so.

        When "God" (the Mahanta) is fearful and
        needs metal detectors, searches, and a
        security entourage one has to wonder
        about the validity of this religion.

        Then, of course, we have the aging factor.
        Other EK Masters live forever and appear
        rather youthful while Klemp is pale, old
        looking and wrinkled, grey-haired, and
        balding... like anyone else! I'm surprised
        that Eckists can't believe their own eyes!
        What delusion! How does one rationalize
        all of these facts and contradictions? Are
        people that desperate and needy? Yes!

        Eckankar is just another feel good religion
        with all of the rules and regulations and
        busy work, guilt/fear, and ego traps that
        all religions share. Every religion is unique
        and that's why they attract a certain like-
        minded group of individuals. Yet, all of
        these believers think they are right and
        everyone else is wrong and doomed! Unless,
        of course, the sinner is converted. Therefore,
        their "truth" must be shared with the world
        in order to "save" the non-believer from
        the negative effects of Kal, Satan, God, etc.

        And, in EK, there are "inflow" game points
        (initiations and positions) to be achieved
        while doing "God's" missionary (vahana)
        work to help raise the world's consciousness
        via this"outflow." The imagination is fun
        and useful and necessary, but it can, also,
        be a trap and a means of creating delusion.

        Prometheus



        jonathan wrote:

        Prometheus,

        I just wanted to clarify to everybody that I wasn't trying to defend Eckankar
        when they canceled the drumming session. I was just trying to get into their
        head to try to figure out what kooky reason they had for canceling it.
        Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time engaged in that same process through the 29
        years that I was a member

        I agree completely with your statement "Anyway, it just goes to show how
        religions like to control their followers via rules, laws, guidelines, guilt,
        and fear. Eckankar has the RESA Hierarchy (Police) to keep everyone on their
        "track."


        As you stated, you and the other Eckists who were looking forward to the session
        saw it as something innocent, and whatever energy was going to be brought to the
        surface was a reflection of the Eck. I'm glad you mentioned that because I
        wasn't even thinking in those terms. Of course you were thinking in those terms!
        You were Eckists at an Eck seminar! So, yes, it does show how fanatical Eckankar
        is when it comes to enforcing the rule "the teachings of Eckankar must be kept
        pure."
      • ctecvie
        Hello Prometheus and all, .... and, frankly, who would be interested in attacking a so-called godman from an unknown religion?? YAWN! :-D And yes, little
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 3, 2009
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          Hello Prometheus and all,

          .... and, frankly, who would be interested in attacking a so-called "godman" from an unknown religion?? YAWN! :-D
          And yes, little Harry is aging, and shaking, and looking much older than any other 67(or so)-year-old! I guess ekkies just don't remove their pink glasses! Not to see means it isn't there! LOL!

          Ingrid
          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Jonathan and All,
          > Yes, the attempt to do a "drumming
          > circle" was an innocent act, and it was
          > meant to be fun! And, I've been at ones
          > where there was NO chanting just drumming!
          > I find them interesting in that the drumming
          > (sound) starts out as individualized/group
          > chaos and then harmonizes into a Unity of
          > Consciousness. It's a metaphor... for the
          > spiritual life.
          >
          > Getting back to the use of fear and
          > control tactics of religions and of Eckankar:
          >
          > Did Eckankar use metal detectors at the
          > 2009 EWWS? I always thought that was an
          > over-the-top/knee-jerk reaction (a security/
          > fear tactic) for Klemp to use after 9/11.
          >
          > Why should "God" (the Mahanta) be fearful
          > of anything or anyone? Couldn't/wouldn't/
          > shouldn't Rebazar and the other EK Masters
          > manifest themselves to protect Klemp?
          > Shouldn't HK be able to protect himself
          > and his chelas on the outer, as well as
          > (supposedly), on the inner? HK states
          > that his "protection" is with his followers.
          > But, where's the proof when H.I.s are dying
          > of cancer etc. Actually, this is proof that
          > Klemp is a liar. Guilt puts blame on the
          > chela/H.I. for the cancer (besides, it's a
          > "test" of faith) while Klemp dodges his
          > promises and responsibilities.
          >
          > However, doubt began to creep into Eckists'
          > consciousness when the "metal detectors"
          > and "searches" began. This created more
          > questioning of Klemp's abilities, and his
          > truthfulness (as the LEM/Mahanta) began
          > to be doubted even more so.
          >
          > When "God" (the Mahanta) is fearful and
          > needs metal detectors, searches, and a
          > security entourage one has to wonder
          > about the validity of this religion.
          >
          > Then, of course, we have the aging factor.
          > Other EK Masters live forever and appear
          > rather youthful while Klemp is pale, old
          > looking and wrinkled, grey-haired, and
          > balding... like anyone else! I'm surprised
          > that Eckists can't believe their own eyes!
          > What delusion! How does one rationalize
          > all of these facts and contradictions? Are
          > people that desperate and needy? Yes!
          >
          > Eckankar is just another feel good religion
          > with all of the rules and regulations and
          > busy work, guilt/fear, and ego traps that
          > all religions share. Every religion is unique
          > and that's why they attract a certain like-
          > minded group of individuals. Yet, all of
          > these believers think they are right and
          > everyone else is wrong and doomed! Unless,
          > of course, the sinner is converted. Therefore,
          > their "truth" must be shared with the world
          > in order to "save" the non-believer from
          > the negative effects of Kal, Satan, God, etc.
          >
          > And, in EK, there are "inflow" game points
          > (initiations and positions) to be achieved
          > while doing "God's" missionary (vahana)
          > work to help raise the world's consciousness
          > via this"outflow." The imagination is fun
          > and useful and necessary, but it can, also,
          > be a trap and a means of creating delusion.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          > jonathan wrote:
          >
          > Prometheus,
          >
          > I just wanted to clarify to everybody that I wasn't trying to defend Eckankar
          > when they canceled the drumming session. I was just trying to get into their
          > head to try to figure out what kooky reason they had for canceling it.
          > Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time engaged in that same process through the 29
          > years that I was a member
          >
          > I agree completely with your statement "Anyway, it just goes to show how
          > religions like to control their followers via rules, laws, guidelines, guilt,
          > and fear. Eckankar has the RESA Hierarchy (Police) to keep everyone on their
          > "track."
          >
          >
          > As you stated, you and the other Eckists who were looking forward to the session
          > saw it as something innocent, and whatever energy was going to be brought to the
          > surface was a reflection of the Eck. I'm glad you mentioned that because I
          > wasn't even thinking in those terms. Of course you were thinking in those terms!
          > You were Eckists at an Eck seminar! So, yes, it does show how fanatical Eckankar
          > is when it comes to enforcing the rule "the teachings of Eckankar must be kept
          > pure."
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Ingrid and All, You have a point there. Why would the 9/11 terrorists, or their cohorts, want to bother with Eckankar? At the time I even thought the
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 4, 2009
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            Hello Ingrid and All,
            You have a point there. Why
            would the 9/11 terrorists, or
            their cohorts, want to bother
            with Eckankar? At the time I
            even thought the same thing!
            After all, we (Eckists) weren't
            even Christians! However, it
            was a good excuse to use for
            more detailed searches to
            look for recording devices.
            But, I'm thinking it had more
            to do with Klemp's paranoia...
            it was what L. Ron Hubbard
            would do without a 9/11!

            On another level, complying
            with the metal detectors and
            searches can be seen as KAL
            tests. It's the herd mentality too.
            If EKists comply and don't see
            the "spiritual" implications they
            FAIL the higher test! Detachment/
            Non-attachment to fear and
            other Maya is supposed to be
            the ECK Way! Thus, all current
            Eckists have failed the higher
            spiritual tests while passing
            KAL's tests of fear and illusion!

            Isn't it obvious how easily
            people today (Eckists included)
            comply (obey) and surrender
            their wills (freedom) to authority.
            However, going into a convention
            hall at a religious (EK) seminar for
            a talk shouldn't have the same
            security measures and connotations
            as entering a government building!
            Checking seminar badges should
            be enough security.

            It's all about control. The
            additional security measures
            that Klemp implemented, also,
            measured his ability to control
            his chelas and H.I.s.

            Irregardless, the ECK Dogma
            contradicts these extreme
            security measures. The implications
            of these contradictions (fear
            versus ECK) are right in front
            of every ECKist and yet they
            refuse to see! Instead, EK
            chelas follow the Judas goats
            (RESAs) and the rest of the
            herd (hierarchy).

            Isn't "Detachment" key?
            Isn't it true that there is No
            Death for Soul? Should "fear"
            rule the ECKists' Worlds or
            should "love" rule? Klemp
            talks the talk but doesn't
            walk the walk! He's a hypocrite
            and a KAL agent! Thus, his
            rapid aging and EMF disease
            etc... it's his karma for lying.

            ECKists should challenge
            these untruths and abominations
            that Klemp has established
            to, seemingly, "comply" with
            EK Dogma. Metal Detectors
            and Searches "contradict"
            EK Dogma! Klemp is the
            anti-Mahanta and a Black
            Magician... it's so obvious!

            I recall that at the Oct. 2001
            EWWS the metal detectors and
            searches bothered me, and
            there was no one that had a
            valid answer as to why it was
            being done. I guess they thought
            that it was obvious as to why
            and that no explanation was
            necessary. That might be okay
            for others (non-Eckists) but
            we (Eckists) were/are Soul and
            we had eternal life... there is No
            Death!

            And, (as ECKists) we had the
            "protection" of the LEM/Mahanta
            who was (supposedly) "always"
            with us.

            Why then metal detectors and
            searches, in Oct 2001, and years
            afterwards? I'm sure that this
            made most people feel more
            safe and secure, but it didn't
            make me feel that way. It made
            me doubt what I was being told
            in the EK teachings. I started to
            see thru the facade and make the
            connection that something was
            wrong... very wrong, and it didn't
            feel good!

            For years since 9/11 people arriving
            on busses at the EK Temple have
            had their bags searched and/or
            checked. I saw past the fear mentality
            and saw my religion, Eckankar,
            and my LEM/Mahanta falling short
            of the mark. It was disappointing
            to say the least and it bothered
            me even more so when this policy
            of perpetuating fear was continued
            year after year. Once was bad
            enough, but Klemp's paranoia
            and then Ford's revelations all
            added up to be too much truth
            to avoid seeing.

            Actually, Ford's book was the
            final straw. I was hanging on
            tight but could no longer avoid
            the cold hard truth! Klemp was
            a fraud and Eckankar was just
            another religious con designed
            by a narcissist and liar (PT).

            Actually, it seems that all three
            LEMs were/are narcissists and liars,
            as well as, unstable and delusional.
            ECKists use the term: "As above, so
            below," but does "fear" rule or even
            exist in the higher planes "above?"
            Why then metal detectors and searches?

            Prometheus
            p.s. And yes, HK's hand shaking, and
            rapid aging is another contradiction
            to the EK teachings. It's another in-
            your-face obvious truth that needs
            to be placed outside of one's scrutiny
            and avoided at all costs. Eckists simply
            can't and won't admit that they've
            been lied to. It's too easy and comfortable
            to believe what you're told, and too
            difficult to change. Besides, what do
            Eckists have to replace Eckankar with?
            Self-Mastery has less effort, but has
            too much responsibility!



            ctecvie wrote:

            Hello Prometheus and all,

            .... and, frankly, who would be interested
            in attacking a so-called "godman" from
            an unknown religion?? YAWN! :-D

            And yes, little Harry is aging, and shaking,
            and looking much older than any other 67
            (or so)-year-old! I guess ekkies just don't
            remove their pink glasses!

            Not to see means it isn't there! LOL!

            Ingrid

            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello Jonathan and All,
            > Yes, the attempt to do a "drumming
            > circle" was an innocent act, and it was
            > meant to be fun! And, I've been at ones
            > where there was NO chanting just drumming!
            > I find them interesting in that the drumming
            > (sound) starts out as individualized/group
            > chaos and then harmonizes into a Unity of
            > Consciousness. It's a metaphor... for the
            > spiritual life.
            >
            > Getting back to the use of fear and
            > control tactics of religions and of Eckankar:
            >
            > Did Eckankar use metal detectors at the
            > 2009 EWWS? I always thought that was an
            > over-the-top/knee-jerk reaction (a security/
            > fear tactic) for Klemp to use after 9/11.
            >
            > Why should "God" (the Mahanta) be fearful
            > of anything or anyone? Couldn't/wouldn't/
            > shouldn't Rebazar and the other EK Masters
            > manifest themselves to protect Klemp?
            > Shouldn't HK be able to protect himself
            > and his chelas on the outer, as well as
            > (supposedly), on the inner? HK states
            > that his "protection" is with his followers.
            > But, where's the proof when H.I.s are dying
            > of cancer etc. Actually, this is proof that
            > Klemp is a liar. Guilt puts blame on the
            > chela/H.I. for the cancer (besides, it's a
            > "test" of faith) while Klemp dodges his
            > promises and responsibilities.
            >
            > However, doubt began to creep into Eckists'
            > consciousness when the "metal detectors"
            > and "searches" began. This created more
            > questioning of Klemp's abilities, and his
            > truthfulness (as the LEM/Mahanta) began
            > to be doubted even more so.
            >
            > When "God" (the Mahanta) is fearful and
            > needs metal detectors, searches, and a
            > security entourage one has to wonder
            > about the validity of this religion.
            >
            > Then, of course, we have the aging factor.
            > Other EK Masters live forever and appear
            > rather youthful while Klemp is pale, old
            > looking and wrinkled, grey-haired, and
            > balding... like anyone else! I'm surprised
            > that Eckists can't believe their own eyes!
            > What delusion! How does one rationalize
            > all of these facts and contradictions? Are
            > people that desperate and needy? Yes!
            >
            > Eckankar is just another feel good religion
            > with all of the rules and regulations and
            > busy work, guilt/fear, and ego traps that
            > all religions share. Every religion is unique
            > and that's why they attract a certain like-
            > minded group of individuals. Yet, all of
            > these believers think they are right and
            > everyone else is wrong and doomed! Unless,
            > of course, the sinner is converted. Therefore,
            > their "truth" must be shared with the world
            > in order to "save" the non-believer from
            > the negative effects of Kal, Satan, God, etc.
            >
            > And, in EK, there are "inflow" game points
            > (initiations and positions) to be achieved
            > while doing "God's" missionary (vahana)
            > work to help raise the world's consciousness
            > via this"outflow." The imagination is fun
            > and useful and necessary, but it can, also,
            > be a trap and a means of creating delusion.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            jonathan wrote:
            >
            Prometheus,
            >
            I just wanted to clarify to everybody that I wasn't trying to defend
            Eckankar when they canceled the drumming session. I was just trying
            to get into their head to try to figure out what kooky reason they had
            for canceling it. Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time engaged in that
            same process through the 29 years that I was a member
            >
            I agree completely with your statement "Anyway, it just goes to show
            how religions like to control their followers via rules, laws, guidelines,
            guilt, and fear. Eckankar has the RESA Hierarchy (Police) to keep everyone
            on their "track."
            >
            >
            As you stated, you and the other Eckists who were looking forward
            to the session saw it as something innocent, and whatever energy was
            going to be brought to the surface was a reflection of the Eck. I'm glad
            you mentioned that because I wasn't even thinking in those terms. Of
            course you were thinking in those terms!

            You were Eckists at an Eck seminar! So, yes, it does show how fanatical
            Eckankar is when it comes to enforcing the rule "the teachings of Eckankar
            must be kept pure."
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