Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Hi Prometheus and Sharon

Expand Messages
  • etznab@aol.com
    PS - Hey, Etznab, you re good with the timelines - do you possibly feel like doing one for Klemp? Okay, that s not fair, but I m just not one of those highly
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 31, 2009
      "PS - Hey, Etznab, you're good with the timelines -
      do you possibly feel like doing one for Klemp?
      Okay, that's not fair, but I'm just not one of those
      highly organized list-making types!"

      Sharon,

      To tell ya the truth, I got kinda burned out on the
      Eckankar trivia timeline stuff. But more than that, I
      was unhappy with not knowing fact from fiction for
      all the reported history.

      How do you illustrate information as history when
      some of it may not be true? And when you have two
      or more dates for the same event? Etc? It became
      very frustrating.

      I tried to color code the timeline, but I think that
      made it tacky and hard to understand by anybody
      else but myself. What I finally did was remove the
      E-Trivia Timeline from the Web and started working
      on another version using the same color text for all
      the entries. I added a lot more information & trivia
      about similar spiritual paths, masters and teachings
      compared with Eckankar. A number of things about
      Hubbard and Scientology as well.

      Like I said, I got burned out and became mostly
      dissatisfied not being able to positively verify fact
      from fiction. If I was going to put something on the
      Web about Eckankar for other people to see, what
      I wanted (ideally) was to positively identify true from
      false. However, following some of the history and
      dates given by Paul Twitchell and Eckankar is like
      trying to fly a kite with no tail. It
      just spins round &
      round and it's hard to keep it above the ground :)
      The more I researched, the more I learned ( and I
      began to suspect) there was probably a lot more
      myth mixed in than I previously thought.

      With the version I was working on last, I left off
      at the year 1965. If I ever get the new version done
      I'll let you all know.

      Etznab


      -----Original Message-----
      From: brighttigress <brighttigress@...>
      To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:53 pm
      Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Hi Prometheus and Sharon

       






      Hi Etznab -



      The first link is an official $cientology website, so getting info on
      Hubbard there is sort of like getting info from Ekult HQ about Twitch.
      The second site doesn't really seem credible - some websites are just a
      bit too far-out, IMO. The timeline doesn't seem to make sense at all
      and Hubbard doesn't seem to have much to do with it, sort of like his
      mentions were just added in. Okay, I know the govt. isn't entirely
      trustworthy, with the CIA and MKULtra and many other things that just
      don't seem possible, altho many have been proven true - well, I like to
      get my info from a variety of different websites, usually I go more
      with middle-of-the-road either pro & con, and sort of give less
      credence to the more "extreme" ones.



      Sometime this year I saw a news article, altho ple
      nty of "secret
      members-only" $cientology info has been revealed on the internet, this
      one was about their "complete" scriptures or something, something new,
      and of course S-org was trying to legally get it off the internet.
      Well, I downloaded the whole thing, didn't read it all because,
      well...anymore I find that stuff a bit boring, and I've already read
      enough "secret HI" S-crap that I don't need to see anymore. Now I'm
      sorry, I was doing some major hard drive housecleaning and decided I
      didn't need it. Should've stuck it in the "files" here.



      I think this is a pretty good list of links if you want to really learn
      more about $cientology:



      http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/index.html



      Anyway, I'll try to track down that big download again, if & when I get
      it, I'll stick it in the "files" here.



      Gawd, I've got to get my act together & get back to "work", been
      goofing off for far too long, but I've really been enjoying myself!! I
      oughtta at least get all the ekult stuff unpacked after so many years.



      Oh, I'm pretty sure I recently announced over at ESA that I'm going to
      be a great-grandmother next year!! Well, today I got the news that
      another one's due a little while after that!! I swear, nowadays they
      find out they're pregnant before the fertilized egg even starts
      dividing!! I couldn't imagine that anything could possibly make me
      h
      appier than this year's tomatoes - I'll tell ya, the great-grandbabies
      just don't seem "real" yet, it seems like only yesterday that I was
      changing my grandchildren's diapers! And now they're all grown & doing
      so well in life..., and I can laugh at all those doomsayers who thought
      it was the end of the world when I got knocked up in high school way
      back when. <gg> I'm so proud of my children and grandchildren!!




      Have a great rest-of-the-weekend, everyone!



      Hugs,



      Sharon



      PS - Hey, Etznab, you're good with the timelines - do you possibly feel
      like doing one for Klemp? Okay, that's not fair, but I'm just not one
      of those highly organized list-making types!



      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:

      >

      >

      > Thought I had some links for Hubbard

      > and Scientology.

      >

      > This link gives a Hubbard timeline.

      >

      > http://lron.hubbard.org/pg006.html

      >

      > This next link is a Remote Viewing time-

      > line, but it has lots of trivia about Hubbard

      > and Scientology.

      >

      > http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/rvtimeline/index.html

      >

      > I personally recommend the 2nd link - for

      > those who want to do more research on the

      > subject.

      >

      > Etznab

      >

      > -----Original Message-----=0
      D

      > From: brighttigress <brighttigress@...>

      > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com

      > Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2009 4:37 pm

      > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Hi Prometheus and Sharon

      >

      >  

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      > Good grief, Ken, are you nuts or something? $cientology is just
      plain

      > evil, always was, always will be, even if they've toned down a
      bit.

      > Did you ever read their "holy scriptures", all those top-secret

      > "teachings"? They're even wackier and more worthless than ekult's

      > pitiful members-only "discourses".

      >

      >

      >

      > So, does their E-mater work like a TENS unit or something? C'mon,
      you

      > may *think* they helped your arthritis, but they didn't. Try
      flaxseed

      > oil, it *does* help!! And get yourself a TENS unit, ohmigod,
      they're

      > better than sex used to be!!

      >

      >

      >

      > You know, maybe if you weren't contributing for those "low cost"

      > courses and bullshit "healings", you could afford to do the decent

      > thing and either buy your own food or leave a donation in the box
      at 0D

      > Brahma Kumaris. which is the polite thing to do unless you're
      living in

      > a cardbox and genuinely needy.

      >

      >

      >

      > I'd suggest you=2
      0do some research on $cientology. I like to

      > "investigate" too, but I draw the line at contributing in any way
      to

      > cults and other dishonest scams. Heck, I don't mind supporting
      the

      > Salvation Army, maybe they're sort of cultic but they do a lot of
      good

      > work, and they're losing donations because of those yellow "Planet
      Aid"

      > boxes, which is another big money-making scam.

      >

      >

      >

      > If you want to "investigate" ekult, I hope you either buy stuff
      used -

      > you can find the books & discourses on Ebay and other sites, or
      write

      > to them for a "charity" membership, which they have to offer or
      they'd

      > lose their non-profit status. But good grief, it's just plain
      *wrong*

      > to help them profit financially, even in a small way.

      >

      >

      >

      > JWs are really brainwashed, if you confront them with facts that

      > contradict what they believe the "bible" or the "Governing Body"
      at

      > Bethel "teaches", they're likely to just blank out. They're
      probably

      > still teaching that the earth was created 6,000 literal years ago.
      At

      > least they stick to what they think are "facts", but ekult - well,

      > there's absolute no logic there or anything factual that can be

      > contradicted, so there's no talking to many of them.

      >

      >0D

      >

      > Sharon

      >

      >

      >

      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Ken Pearson maputo95@

      >

      > wrote:

      >

      > >

      >

      > > Thank you for your kind caveat. Scientology does have a
      number of

      > low cost courses that I do by correspondence. I
      investigate�many

      > religious and spiritual groups and probably the best of all
      barring the

      > major religions are the Twelve Steps of AA which are a
      condensation of

      > what the major religions teach.

      >

      > > What is disconcerting about Scientology is that there is
      never a

      > completed cycle for any service you do. There is ALWAYS more
      courses

      > and more auditing to be done.Say, if you have a touch assist for

      > arthritis and give them x amount of $ and you feel better. Can
      they say

      > "Yep, that's you done!"? -Never-because they have to sell you

      > more�courses to raise their stats, That is produce statistics
      that

      > show they are making the corporation more money.

      >

      > > Another group, I have researched and visited in is the Brahma

      > Kumaris World Spiritual University who WILL not EVER ask for a

      > donation. After ten years of friendship with them I noticed a
      permanent

      > collection box in the corner of the meditat
      ion room and I
      personally

      > have never given them a penny despite having great and

      > free�vegetarian meals with them. Yet in other respects, they
      do seem

      > cultish.

      >

      > > Wanna spend 50 years going around in circles? Have a
      theological

      > discussion with a Jehovah's Witnesses whose very purpose to is to

      > denigrate and pour scorn on the religions and civilisati

      > ons in the

      > world. Wanna see logical fallacies being employed in discussion,
      talk

      > to these millenialists!

      >

      > > �

      >

      > >

      >

      > >

      >

      > > --- On Thu, 8/27/09, harrisonferrel

      > no_reply@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      >

      > >

      >

      > >

      >

      > > From: harrisonferrel no_reply@yahoogroups.com

      >

      > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Hi Prometheus and Sharon

      >

      > > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com

      >

      > > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 5:08 AM

      >

      > >

      >

      > >

      >

      > > �

      >

      > >

      >

      > >

      >

      > >

      >

      > > If you're doing courses with Scientology, you're mixed up in
      a

      > cult. If you don't see this then you're in d
      enial. To call
      eckankar a

      > cult then be in scientology is just trading one bunch of crap for

      > another. When you watch Hubbard on film he is sociopathic in his

      > behavior. A grand manipulator who just plain took advantage of
      people.

      > Now the organization is a mean-spirited machine that ruins
      people's

      > lives if they dare to disagree. If you're Catholic, what are you
      doing

      > there in the first place? Hubbard wrote science fiction that
      somehow

      > got twisted into a belief system. Twitchell was a Hubbard wannabe,
      but

      > that does not make Hubbard much better.

      >

      > >

      >

      > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, Ken Pearson
      <maputo95@

      > .> wrote:

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > > Hi Prometheus and Sharon

      >

      > > > �

      >

      > > > What you wrote is deja-vu for meF¿½or have I said this

      > before? I do courses with Scientology but they know I'm Catholic
      and so

      > do not approach me to volunteer to spread their 'salvation.' The

      > questionable military record of "Twit" (and the�English usage
      of this

      > word may be revealing) is so similar�to the lionizing
      personal

      > History propaganda about L Ron Hubbard, the source o
      f
      Scientology�and

      > his alleged war heroism!�Don' t get me wrong as a cult
      leader, L Ron

      > is, in my opinion, one of the more interesting in the field.Some
      of his

      > learning techniques are second to none but ardent followers seem
      to

      > have to mythologize or make their leader 'larger than life' and
      believe

      > me�all Ron had to do to be larger than life was to stand on
      his

      > wallet!! I am a war veteran and Golden Rule Number One is not to
      tell

      > war stories but hold a stoic silence. The Internet seeks out and

      > destroys bullshitters. Nod to Anonymous.

      >

      > > > �

      >

      > > > Thanks Sharon for your welcome. My next post will be on
      how

      > Harry Potter appeared to me in a dream!!!!

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > > Ken.

      >

      > > > �

      >

      > > > --- On Tue, 8/25/09, prometheus_973 <prometheus_
      973@>

      > wrote:

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_ 973@>

      >

      > > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Klemp in Japan or just in

      > fantasyland?

      >

      >

      > > >
      To: eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com

      >

      > > > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 2:02 AM

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > > �

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > > Hello All,

      >

      > > > It is hard to know if Twit told the whole truth

      >

      > > > about much of anything. Mostly it was half-

      >

      > > > truths. I do think that he was in the Navy

      >

      > > > and an officer during and after WWII since

      >

      > > > he wrote for a Navy pub. Was he in combat?

      >

      > > > No, I doubt that he was. In his book "Difficulties

      >

      > > > of Becoming the LEM" PT states that he was

      >

      > > > trying to get out of duty by screwing up his

      >

      > > > paperwork, etc. Actually, PT was sabotaging

      >

      > > > the Navy's effectiveness during wartime!

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > > I do believe that Klemp was in the Air Force

      >

      > > > and stationed at Yokota A.B. Japan around

      >

      > > > 1966-67, and that he was doing radio intercepts

      >

      > > > of the Russians in Vie
      tnam. He's given too many

      >

      > > > details over the years. I even found a site that

      >

      > > > verifies some info of his claims.

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > > http://www.6901st. org/history/ history.htm

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > > Prometheus

      >

      > > >

      >

      > > > harrisonferrel wrote:

      >

      > > > >

      >

      > > > > I really think there is NOTHING that w

      > e should take as

      > truth from klemp or eckankar. We have no idea at all that the guy
      was

      > even in Japan or any place else. There are so many lies that it's

      > easier not to believe anything. Remember that story about Paul
      seeing

      > his father on a boat in the war? Then it turns out that twitchell
      was

      > never in the war? There's all kinds of contradictions in the
      make-em-up

      > fantasyland of eckankar.

      >

      > > > >

      >

      > > > >

      >

      > > > >

      >

      > > > >

      >

      > > > Sharon <brighttigress@ > wrote:

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > Hi Everyone!

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > Well, I'm just sort of killing
      some time here,

      > after enjoying a breakfast tomato and a lunch tomato, not quite
      ready

      > for my mid-afternoon- snack tomato yet.� Ohmigod, they are
      *so*

      > good!!�� I've sort of been away from "real" gardening
      for a few

      > years, had a horrible experience last year, bought a "Jersey"
      tomato at

      > a farmstand - well, just because it's shipped from NJ doesn't mean
      it's

      > a Jersey tomato!!�� This year I sent for Moreton &
      Ramapo from

      > Rutgers, and they're definitely worth it!!�� The only
      problem, they

      > grow *huge* and I don't have much space - so I'm really going to
      plan

      > way ahead this year & start sending for seed catalogs right now,
      so if

      > anyone out there can recommend

      > a super-yummy compact plant, please

      > share!!�

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > Okay - welcome Ken, and everyone else new, I
      don't

      > think I welcome people anymore, okay that's sort of rude I guess,
      but

      > ET doesn't command a whole lot of my time and attention
      anymore.� And

      > thank you everyone who posts here!�
      ¯Â¿Â½ Those who take the
      time to

      > post are helping a lot of others, from current members to
      long-time

      > exes.�

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > Prometheus, thanks for cross-posting, and I
      like

      > the way you re-wrote that one and added the "but" stuff! � I
      hope

      > that everyone here is also reading everything at both ESA and "X".

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > Anyway, everyone goes thru stages.� Right
      now

      > there are newbies joining ekult and feeling that special magic we

      > probably all felt at first.� And yes, although Twitch said to

      > question & doubt, I remember he *also* wrote that the greatest
      doubters

      > often became the "strongest" eckists.� Of *course* if you
      start doing

      > those self-hypnotic spex, you're going to have "experiences" - if
      you

      > don't they tell you to just work harder, or perhaps you're getting
      it

      > "on the inner" and just don't remember, etc.� Gawd, once you
      wake up,

      > get out, and learn how that cultic mind-control & programing
      works,

      > it

      > 's really amazing!�ï¿=C
      3½ On the one hand, we might feel like
      idiots

      > for falling for it.� On the other hand, damn it really
      worked, and it

      > worked well!!�� Which reminds me, does anyone else know
      where "The

      > Cult Test" is nowadays?� I was checking my links not long
      ago, that

      > one's not good anymore, I searched a bit but couldn't find it, got

      > distracted

      >

      > > > elsewhere.��

      >

      > > > > > Anyway, it was originally in Omni magazine,
      and it

      > shows how easily just about *anyone* can get caught.

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > It's been so long for me that I tend to forget
      just

      > how bad it was when I first left.� And I mean *really*
      bad!!�

      > Pretty traumatic, and it actually took quite a long time to really

      > "recover" and become "normal" again.�� I worked hard at

      > de-programming myself, by going back over the "teachings" and
      looking

      > at them without those blue-fogged lenses.� I got a lot of
      help from

      > reading "anti-cult" sites, both "educational" ones20and sites by
      former

      > members of other cults.� I was amazed to learn there were so
      many of

      > them, a lot of them were ekult-clones too!�� And no
      matter what

      > kind of cult it is, they're all the same basically.

      >

      > > > > > And I had the h

      > elp and support of so many others.

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > So some people might be able to just quit
      without

      > many problems, it's different for everyone, but I'd say even if
      you

      > think it's no big deal, there may be little after-effects you
      don't

      > even notice.� I think you need to sort of "go with the flow"
      whatever

      > you're experiencing, one thing I think everyone needs to do is
      learn

      > who their "real Self" is. of course maybe that's what we all do in
      life

      > anyway - we're all works in progress, but after you leave a cult,
      I

      > think you need to really look at yourself a bit more, find
      yourself,

      > and while you're at it, decide what/who *you* want to be, and
      remake &

      > refind yourself accordingly.� And I hope that makes
      sense!� Be

      > objective & observant, think & question *everything* , ev
      en your
      own

      > subjectiveness. �

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > And don't hesitate to try to get professional
      help,

      > or write to me or any other former members you see online who

      > "resonates", if you're not comfortable about posting
      publicly.� Don't

      > know about everyone else, but I remember I got so used to that
      "the

      > master is always with you" nonsense over the years, it was a bit

      > strange after I kicked him out & slammed the door firmly, I felt a
      bit

      > lost & floundering.�

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > >=2

      > 0> > > Laughing here, I think a good example is how "X"

      > progressed from that pic of a chained elephant to a tiger!! �
      YES!!

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > Oh, another thought - on Klemp.� At first
      I tried

      > to make excuses for him.� Then I felt a lot of contempt and
      disgust,

      > which I still do.� Hey, if I ever have the opportunity I just
      might

      > spit on him, but I don't know.� On the other hand - there but
      for the

      > grace
      of "Whatever" goes any of us. � He didn't have much
      going on

      > for him when he was young, he was lost and wimpy and
      powerless.�

      > Actually, he *still* is!� <gg>� But - he was far
      away in

      > Japan, homesick, saw an ad for "soul travel" (was it in Fate?),
      and

      > kaboom, he got caught in Twitch's web.� Pretty pitiful, isn't
      it?�

      > Ekult is the only thing he had or has going for him.�
      Otherwise, he

      > was a big "nothing", a failure - and he probably would still
      be.� Not

      > much different from Twitch, actually, except Twitch was a bullshit

      > artiste early on.� So, in a way I feel sorry for Klemp,
      because he's

      > the best example of what can happen to someone who might otherwise
      be

      > just an average boring

      >

      > > > "nice

      >

      > > > > > guy".� Instead, ekult has brought out=2

      > 0the worst

      > in him.� And it's something I think we've all seen in many
      eckists, a

      > lot of them who are "successful" - nasty, controlling HIs with no

      > consciences, very into power, and sure
      as heck not the least bit

      > "spiritual"! !! �

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > Okay, rambling time over, and it's time for
      another

      > tomato!! � If anyone hears any distant orgasmic moans in the
      wind,

      > that's me!!� <gg>� Powdery mildew killed the
      cukes, but the

      > tomatoes more than make up for it.� Squash looks like it's

      > recovering.� And I've got quite a few little Sugar Baby
      watermelons!

      > ! � And the peppers are doing wonderfully, and I'm sure I'll
      even get

      > red ripe ones this year! ��

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > Life is good, and so much richer, truer, and

      > clearer than in was when I was in ekult - there's absolutely *no*

      > comparison! � Of course, there are still ups & down and
      life's

      > unpleasant "kabooms", but it's *all* just plain good, better than
      when

      > I was a true blue eckist, there's just no comparison, now it's all

      > *real*! �� Really, it's like coming indoors in a cold
      day and your

      0A> glasses are fogged - that's ekult.�

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > Okay, I know I'm not the only one=2

      > 0here who's not as

      > young as they used to be, but right now I'm laughing, nope it's
      not

      > always pleasant but on the other hand, there are so many things to
      be

      > thankful for! � And being out of ekult� is just about
      the biggest,

      > and makes everything else so much better!

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > Hugs,

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > > > Sharon

      >

      > > > > >

      >

      > > > >

      >

      > > >

      >

      > >

      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, Remember that Ek song with the lyrics of life life is only a dream. Thus, how can one factually prove anything since it s all a dream or depends
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 1, 2009
        Hello All,
        Remember that Ek song with the
        lyrics of "life life is only a dream."
        Thus, how can one factually prove
        anything since it's all a "dream"
        or depends upon the majority's
        acknowledgment and agreement
        of reality, or those who have a
        "higher consciousness" due to a
        pecking order of initiation levels,
        etc. etc.? What is Truth since It,
        supposedly, has many different
        levels of consciousness and meanings?

        However, running red lights is bad
        behaviour, dangerous to others, and
        against the law and requires punishment
        (a lesson to conform to society's laws)
        when one is irresponsible... dream or not!

        And, when Klemp puts Twitchell's birth
        year [1908] on the front copyright page
        of the Combined Shariyats Books 1 & 2
        (EK's Holy Books) I, thus, use this birth
        year for Paul (and ignore the rest) since
        this has now become the most "official"
        birth year endorsed by Klemp... ECKankar's
        chief spokesperson and leader. And,
        since my focus is upon Klemp and
        ECKankar I feel that this date/information
        is accurate and factual in order to make
        my points. If the Mahanta is, truly, the
        highest con out there then how can he
        be wrong? Of course, we know he's a
        fraud, but to Eckists he's not! Thus, I'll
        use his own words against him... which
        is rather easy. After all, No Eckist is allowed
        to find fault with his rules etc. or his
        lack of action and nutty comments.

        Prometheus


        etznab wrote:
        >
        > "PS - Hey, Etznab, you're good with the timelines -
        > do you possibly feel like doing one for Klemp?
        > Okay, that's not fair, but I'm just not one of those
        > highly organized list-making types!"
        >
        > Sharon,
        >
        > To tell ya the truth, I got kinda burned out on the
        > Eckankar trivia timeline stuff. But more than that, I
        > was unhappy with not knowing fact from fiction for
        > all the reported history.
        >
        > How do you illustrate information as history when
        > some of it may not be true? And when you have two
        > or more dates for the same event? Etc? It became
        > very frustrating.
        >
        > I tried to color code the timeline, but I think that
        > made it tacky and hard to understand by anybody
        > else but myself. What I finally did was remove the
        > E-Trivia Timeline from the Web and started working
        > on another version using the same color text for all
        > the entries. I added a lot more information & trivia
        > about similar spiritual paths, masters and teachings
        > compared with Eckankar. A number of things about
        > Hubbard and Scientology as well.
        >
        > Like I said, I got burned out and became mostly
        > dissatisfied not being able to positively verify fact
        > from fiction. If I was going to put something on the
        > Web about Eckankar for other people to see, what
        > I wanted (ideally) was to positively identify true from
        > false. However, following some of the history and
        > dates given by Paul Twitchell and Eckankar is like
        > trying to fly a kite with no tail. It
        > just spins round &
        > round and it's hard to keep it above the ground :)
        > The more I researched, the more I learned ( and I
        > began to suspect) there was probably a lot more
        > myth mixed in than I previously thought.
        >
        > With the version I was working on last, I left off
        > at the year 1965. If I ever get the new version done
        > I'll let you all know.
        >
        > Etznab
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: brighttigress <brighttigress@...>
        > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sat, Aug 29, 2009 8:53 pm
        > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Hi Prometheus and Sharon
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi Etznab -
        >
        >
        >
        > The first link is an official $cientology website, so getting info on
        > Hubbard there is sort of like getting info from Ekult HQ about Twitch.
        > The second site doesn't really seem credible - some websites are just a
        > bit too far-out, IMO. The timeline doesn't seem to make sense at all
        > and Hubbard doesn't seem to have much to do with it, sort of like his
        > mentions were just added in. Okay, I know the govt. isn't entirely
        > trustworthy, with the CIA and MKULtra and many other things that just
        > don't seem possible, altho many have been proven true - well, I like to
        > get my info from a variety of different websites, usually I go more
        > with middle-of-the-road either pro & con, and sort of give less
        > credence to the more "extreme" ones.
        >
        >
        >
        > Sometime this year I saw a news article, altho ple
        > nty of "secret
        > members-only" $cientology info has been revealed on the internet, this
        > one was about their "complete" scriptures or something, something new,
        > and of course S-org was trying to legally get it off the internet.
        > Well, I downloaded the whole thing, didn't read it all because,
        > well...anymore I find that stuff a bit boring, and I've already read
        > enough "secret HI" S-crap that I don't need to see anymore. Now I'm
        > sorry, I was doing some major hard drive housecleaning and decided I
        > didn't need it. Should've stuck it in the "files" here.
        >
        >
        >
        > I think this is a pretty good list of links if you want to really learn
        > more about $cientology:
        >
        >
        >
        > http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/index.html
        >
        >
        >
        > Anyway, I'll try to track down that big download again, if & when I get
        > it, I'll stick it in the "files" here.
        >
        >
        >
        > Gawd, I've got to get my act together & get back to "work", been
        > goofing off for far too long, but I've really been enjoying myself!! I
        > oughtta at least get all the ekult stuff unpacked after so many years.
        >
        >
        >
        > Oh, I'm pretty sure I recently announced over at ESA that I'm going to
        > be a great-grandmother next year!! Well, today I got the news that
        > another one's due a little while after that!! I swear, nowadays they
        > find out they're pregnant before the fertilized egg even starts
        > dividing!! I couldn't imagine that anything could possibly make me
        > h
        > appier than this year's tomatoes - I'll tell ya, the great-grandbabies
        > just don't seem "real" yet, it seems like only yesterday that I was
        > changing my grandchildren's diapers! And now they're all grown & doing
        > so well in life..., and I can laugh at all those doomsayers who thought
        > it was the end of the world when I got knocked up in high school way
        > back when. <gg> I'm so proud of my children and grandchildren!!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Have a great rest-of-the-weekend, everyone!
        >
        >
        >
        > Hugs,
        >
        >
        >
        > Sharon
        >
        >
        >
        > PS - Hey, Etznab, you're good with the timelines - do you possibly feel
        > like doing one for Klemp? Okay, that's not fair, but I'm just not one
        > of those highly organized list-making types!
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, etznab@ wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Thought I had some links for Hubbard
        >
        > > and Scientology.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > This link gives a Hubbard timeline.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > http://lron.hubbard.org/pg006.html
        >
        > >
        >
        > > This next link is a Remote Viewing time-
        >
        > > line, but it has lots of trivia about Hubbard
        >
        > > and Scientology.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/rvtimeline/index.html
        >
        > >
        >
        > > I personally recommend the 2nd link - for
        >
        > > those who want to do more research on the
        >
        > > subject.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Etznab
        >
        > >
        >
        > > -----Original Message-----=0
        > D
        >
        > > From: brighttigress brighttigress@
        >
        > > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > > Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2009 4:37 pm
        >
        > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Hi Prometheus and Sharon
        >
        > >
        >
        > >  
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Good grief, Ken, are you nuts or something? $cientology is just
        > plain
        >
        > > evil, always was, always will be, even if they've toned down a
        > bit.
        >
        > > Did you ever read their "holy scriptures", all those top-secret
        >
        > > "teachings"? They're even wackier and more worthless than ekult's
        >
        > > pitiful members-only "discourses".
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > So, does their E-mater work like a TENS unit or something? C'mon,
        > you
        >
        > > may *think* they helped your arthritis, but they didn't. Try
        > flaxseed
        >
        > > oil, it *does* help!! And get yourself a TENS unit, ohmigod,
        > they're
        >
        > > better than sex used to be!!
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > You know, maybe if you weren't contributing for those "low cost"
        >
        > > courses and bullshit "healings", you could afford to do the decent
        >
        > > thing and either buy your own food or leave a donation in the box
        > at 0D
        >
        > > Brahma Kumaris. which is the polite thing to do unless you're
        > living in
        >
        > > a cardbox and genuinely needy.
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > I'd suggest you=2
        > 0do some research on $cientology. I like to
        >
        > > "investigate" too, but I draw the line at contributing in any way
        > to
        >
        > > cults and other dishonest scams. Heck, I don't mind supporting
        > the
        >
        > > Salvation Army, maybe they're sort of cultic but they do a lot of
        > good
        >
        > > work, and they're losing donations because of those yellow "Planet
        > Aid"
        >
        > > boxes, which is another big money-making scam.
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > If you want to "investigate" ekult, I hope you either buy stuff
        > used -
        >
        > > you can find the books & discourses on Ebay and other sites, or
        > write
        >
        > > to them for a "charity" membership, which they have to offer or
        > they'd
        >
        > > lose their non-profit status. But good grief, it's just plain
        > *wrong*
        >
        > > to help them profit financially, even in a small way.
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > JWs are really brainwashed, if you confront them with facts that
        >
        > > contradict what they believe the "bible" or the "Governing Body"
        > at
        >
        > > Bethel "teaches", they're likely to just blank out. They're
        > probably
        >
        > > still teaching that the earth was created 6,000 literal years ago.
        > At
        >
        > > least they stick to what they think are "facts", but ekult - well,
        >
        > > there's absolute no logic there or anything factual that can be
        >
        > > contradicted, so there's no talking to many of them.
        >
        > >
        >
        > >0D
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Sharon
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Ken Pearson maputo95@
        >
        > >
        >
        > > wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Thank you for your kind caveat. Scientology does have a
        > number of
        >
        > > low cost courses that I do by correspondence. I
        > investigate�many
        >
        > > religious and spiritual groups and probably the best of all
        > barring the
        >
        > > major religions are the Twelve Steps of AA which are a
        > condensation of
        >
        > > what the major religions teach.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > What is disconcerting about Scientology is that there is
        > never a
        >
        > > completed cycle for any service you do. There is ALWAYS more
        > courses
        >
        > > and more auditing to be done.Say, if you have a touch assist for
        >
        > > arthritis and give them x amount of $ and you feel better. Can
        > they say
        >
        > > "Yep, that's you done!"? -Never-because they have to sell you
        >
        > > more�courses to raise their stats, That is produce statistics
        > that
        >
        > > show they are making the corporation more money.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Another group, I have researched and visited in is the Brahma
        >
        > > Kumaris World Spiritual University who WILL not EVER ask for a
        >
        > > donation. After ten years of friendship with them I noticed a
        > permanent
        >
        > > collection box in the corner of the meditat
        > ion room and I
        > personally
        >
        > > have never given them a penny despite having great and
        >
        > > free�vegetarian meals with them. Yet in other respects, they
        > do seem
        >
        > > cultish.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Wanna spend 50 years going around in circles? Have a
        > theological
        >
        > > discussion with a Jehovah's Witnesses whose very purpose to is to
        >
        > > denigrate and pour scorn on the religions and civilisati
        >
        > > ons in the
        >
        > > world. Wanna see logical fallacies being employed in discussion,
        > talk
        >
        > > to these millenialists!
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > �
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > --- On Thu, 8/27/09, harrisonferrel
        >
        > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > From: harrisonferrel no_reply@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Hi Prometheus and Sharon
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 5:08 AM
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > �
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > If you're doing courses with Scientology, you're mixed up in
        > a
        >
        > > cult. If you don't see this then you're in d
        > enial. To call
        > eckankar a
        >
        > > cult then be in scientology is just trading one bunch of crap for
        >
        > > another. When you watch Hubbard on film he is sociopathic in his
        >
        > > behavior. A grand manipulator who just plain took advantage of
        > people.
        >
        > > Now the organization is a mean-spirited machine that ruins
        > people's
        >
        > > lives if they dare to disagree. If you're Catholic, what are you
        > doing
        >
        > > there in the first place? Hubbard wrote science fiction that
        > somehow
        >
        > > got twisted into a belief system. Twitchell was a Hubbard wannabe,
        > but
        >
        > > that does not make Hubbard much better.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, Ken Pearson
        > <maputo95@
        >
        > > .> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Hi Prometheus and Sharon
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > �
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > What you wrote is deja-vu for meF¿½or have I said this
        >
        > > before? I do courses with Scientology but they know I'm Catholic
        > and so
        >
        > > do not approach me to volunteer to spread their 'salvation.' The
        >
        > > questionable military record of "Twit" (and the�English usage
        > of this
        >
        > > word may be revealing) is so similar�to the lionizing
        > personal
        >
        > > History propaganda about L Ron Hubbard, the source o
        > f
        > Scientology�and
        >
        > > his alleged war heroism!�Don' t get me wrong as a cult
        > leader, L Ron
        >
        > > is, in my opinion, one of the more interesting in the field.Some
        > of his
        >
        > > learning techniques are second to none but ardent followers seem
        > to
        >
        > > have to mythologize or make their leader 'larger than life' and
        > believe
        >
        > > me�all Ron had to do to be larger than life was to stand on
        > his
        >
        > > wallet!! I am a war veteran and Golden Rule Number One is not to
        > tell
        >
        > > war stories but hold a stoic silence. The Internet seeks out and
        >
        > > destroys bullshitters. Nod to Anonymous.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > �
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Thanks Sharon for your welcome. My next post will be on
        > how
        >
        > > Harry Potter appeared to me in a dream!!!!
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Ken.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > �
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > --- On Tue, 8/25/09, prometheus_973 <prometheus_
        > 973@>
        >
        > > wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_ 973@>
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Klemp in Japan or just in
        >
        > > fantasyland?
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        > To: eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 2:02 AM
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > �
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Hello All,
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > It is hard to know if Twit told the whole truth
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > about much of anything. Mostly it was half-
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > truths. I do think that he was in the Navy
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > and an officer during and after WWII since
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > he wrote for a Navy pub. Was he in combat?
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > No, I doubt that he was. In his book "Difficulties
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > of Becoming the LEM" PT states that he was
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > trying to get out of duty by screwing up his
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > paperwork, etc. Actually, PT was sabotaging
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > the Navy's effectiveness during wartime!
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > I do believe that Klemp was in the Air Force
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > and stationed at Yokota A.B. Japan around
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > 1966-67, and that he was doing radio intercepts
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > of the Russians in Vie
        > tnam. He's given too many
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > details over the years. I even found a site that
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > verifies some info of his claims.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > http://www.6901st. org/history/ history.htm
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Prometheus
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > harrisonferrel wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > I really think there is NOTHING that w
        >
        > > e should take as
        >
        > > truth from klemp or eckankar. We have no idea at all that the guy
        > was
        >
        > > even in Japan or any place else. There are so many lies that it's
        >
        > > easier not to believe anything. Remember that story about Paul
        > seeing
        >
        > > his father on a boat in the war? Then it turns out that twitchell
        > was
        >
        > > never in the war? There's all kinds of contradictions in the
        > make-em-up
        >
        > > fantasyland of eckankar.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > Sharon <brighttigress@ > wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Hi Everyone!
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Well, I'm just sort of killing
        > some time here,
        >
        > > after enjoying a breakfast tomato and a lunch tomato, not quite
        > ready
        >
        > > for my mid-afternoon- snack tomato yet.� Ohmigod, they are
        > *so*
        >
        > > good!!�� I've sort of been away from "real" gardening
        > for a few
        >
        > > years, had a horrible experience last year, bought a "Jersey"
        > tomato at
        >
        > > a farmstand - well, just because it's shipped from NJ doesn't mean
        > it's
        >
        > > a Jersey tomato!!�� This year I sent for Moreton &
        > Ramapo from
        >
        > > Rutgers, and they're definitely worth it!!�� The only
        > problem, they
        >
        > > grow *huge* and I don't have much space - so I'm really going to
        > plan
        >
        > > way ahead this year & start sending for seed catalogs right now,
        > so if
        >
        > > anyone out there can recommend
        >
        > > a super-yummy compact plant, please
        >
        > > share!!�
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Okay - welcome Ken, and everyone else new, I
        > don't
        >
        > > think I welcome people anymore, okay that's sort of rude I guess,
        > but
        >
        > > ET doesn't command a whole lot of my time and attention
        > anymore.� And
        >
        > > thank you everyone who posts here!�
        > ¯Â¿Â½ Those who take the
        > time to
        >
        > > post are helping a lot of others, from current members to
        > long-time
        >
        > > exes.�
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Prometheus, thanks for cross-posting, and I
        > like
        >
        > > the way you re-wrote that one and added the "but" stuff! � I
        > hope
        >
        > > that everyone here is also reading everything at both ESA and "X".
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Anyway, everyone goes thru stages.� Right
        > now
        >
        > > there are newbies joining ekult and feeling that special magic we
        >
        > > probably all felt at first.� And yes, although Twitch said to
        >
        > > question & doubt, I remember he *also* wrote that the greatest
        > doubters
        >
        > > often became the "strongest" eckists.� Of *course* if you
        > start doing
        >
        > > those self-hypnotic spex, you're going to have "experiences" - if
        > you
        >
        > > don't they tell you to just work harder, or perhaps you're getting
        > it
        >
        > > "on the inner" and just don't remember, etc.� Gawd, once you
        > wake up,
        >
        > > get out, and learn how that cultic mind-control & programing
        > works,
        >
        > > it
        >
        > > 's really amazing!�ï¿=C
        > 3½ On the one hand, we might feel like
        > idiots
        >
        > > for falling for it.� On the other hand, damn it really
        > worked, and it
        >
        > > worked well!!�� Which reminds me, does anyone else know
        > where "The
        >
        > > Cult Test" is nowadays?� I was checking my links not long
        > ago, that
        >
        > > one's not good anymore, I searched a bit but couldn't find it, got
        >
        > > distracted
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > elsewhere.��
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Anyway, it was originally in Omni magazine,
        > and it
        >
        > > shows how easily just about *anyone* can get caught.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > It's been so long for me that I tend to forget
        > just
        >
        > > how bad it was when I first left.� And I mean *really*
        > bad!!�
        >
        > > Pretty traumatic, and it actually took quite a long time to really
        >
        > > "recover" and become "normal" again.�� I worked hard at
        >
        > > de-programming myself, by going back over the "teachings" and
        > looking
        >
        > > at them without those blue-fogged lenses.� I got a lot of
        > help from
        >
        > > reading "anti-cult" sites, both "educational" ones20and sites by
        > former
        >
        > > members of other cults.� I was amazed to learn there were so
        > many of
        >
        > > them, a lot of them were ekult-clones too!�� And no
        > matter what
        >
        > > kind of cult it is, they're all the same basically.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > And I had the h
        >
        > > elp and support of so many others.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > So some people might be able to just quit
        > without
        >
        > > many problems, it's different for everyone, but I'd say even if
        > you
        >
        > > think it's no big deal, there may be little after-effects you
        > don't
        >
        > > even notice.� I think you need to sort of "go with the flow"
        > whatever
        >
        > > you're experiencing, one thing I think everyone needs to do is
        > learn
        >
        > > who their "real Self" is. of course maybe that's what we all do in
        > life
        >
        > > anyway - we're all works in progress, but after you leave a cult,
        > I
        >
        > > think you need to really look at yourself a bit more, find
        > yourself,
        >
        > > and while you're at it, decide what/who *you* want to be, and
        > remake &
        >
        > > refind yourself accordingly.� And I hope that makes
        > sense!� Be
        >
        > > objective & observant, think & question *everything* , ev
        > en your
        > own
        >
        > > subjectiveness. �
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > And don't hesitate to try to get professional
        > help,
        >
        > > or write to me or any other former members you see online who
        >
        > > "resonates", if you're not comfortable about posting
        > publicly.� Don't
        >
        > > know about everyone else, but I remember I got so used to that
        > "the
        >
        > > master is always with you" nonsense over the years, it was a bit
        >
        > > strange after I kicked him out & slammed the door firmly, I felt a
        > bit
        >
        > > lost & floundering.�
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >=2
        >
        > > 0> > > Laughing here, I think a good example is how "X"
        >
        > > progressed from that pic of a chained elephant to a tiger!! �
        > YES!!
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Oh, another thought - on Klemp.� At first
        > I tried
        >
        > > to make excuses for him.� Then I felt a lot of contempt and
        > disgust,
        >
        > > which I still do.� Hey, if I ever have the opportunity I just
        > might
        >
        > > spit on him, but I don't know.� On the other hand - there but
        > for the
        >
        > > grace
        > of "Whatever" goes any of us. � He didn't have much
        > going on
        >
        > > for him when he was young, he was lost and wimpy and
        > powerless.�
        >
        > > Actually, he *still* is!� <gg>� But - he was far
        > away in
        >
        > > Japan, homesick, saw an ad for "soul travel" (was it in Fate?),
        > and
        >
        > > kaboom, he got caught in Twitch's web.� Pretty pitiful, isn't
        > it?�
        >
        > > Ekult is the only thing he had or has going for him.�
        > Otherwise, he
        >
        > > was a big "nothing", a failure - and he probably would still
        > be.� Not
        >
        > > much different from Twitch, actually, except Twitch was a bullshit
        >
        > > artiste early on.� So, in a way I feel sorry for Klemp,
        > because he's
        >
        > > the best example of what can happen to someone who might otherwise
        > be
        >
        > > just an average boring
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > "nice
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > guy".� Instead, ekult has brought out=2
        >
        > > 0the worst
        >
        > > in him.� And it's something I think we've all seen in many
        > eckists, a
        >
        > > lot of them who are "successful" - nasty, controlling HIs with no
        >
        > > consciences, very into power, and sure
        > as heck not the least bit
        >
        > > "spiritual"! !! �
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Okay, rambling time over, and it's time for
        > another
        >
        > > tomato!! � If anyone hears any distant orgasmic moans in the
        > wind,
        >
        > > that's me!!� <gg>� Powdery mildew killed the
        > cukes, but the
        >
        > > tomatoes more than make up for it.� Squash looks like it's
        >
        > > recovering.� And I've got quite a few little Sugar Baby
        > watermelons!
        >
        > > ! � And the peppers are doing wonderfully, and I'm sure I'll
        > even get
        >
        > > red ripe ones this year! ��
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Life is good, and so much richer, truer, and
        >
        > > clearer than in was when I was in ekult - there's absolutely *no*
        >
        > > comparison! � Of course, there are still ups & down and
        > life's
        >
        > > unpleasant "kabooms", but it's *all* just plain good, better than
        > when
        >
        > > I was a true blue eckist, there's just no comparison, now it's all
        >
        > > *real*! �� Really, it's like coming indoors in a cold
        > day and your
        >
        > 0A> glasses are fogged - that's ekult.�
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Okay, I know I'm not the only one=2
        >
        > > 0here who's not as
        >
        > > young as they used to be, but right now I'm laughing, nope it's
        > not
        >
        > > always pleasant but on the other hand, there are so many things to
        > be
        >
        > > thankful for! � And being out of ekult� is just about
        > the biggest,
        >
        > > and makes everything else so much better!
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Hugs,
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > > Sharon
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.