Re: Who is to blame ?
- Hello Harrison and All,
I really think that Gail Twitchell should
be blamed as well as Paul, Darwin, and
Gail inspired and encouraged Paul to
start Eckankar. She was his secretary
and coconspirator, and gave talks promoting
him and his scam. She was not as innocent
as she appeared... if anything she was
as much to blame as Paul.
Then, Gail helped Darwin to get seated
in Paul's place in order to continue the
fraud after Paul died. She had set her sights
on Darwin (not vice versa) and he helped
her to continue her vitamin business and,
eventually, paid her $500,000 for Paul's
However, Klemp is the worst of all as he
took/takes the (false) and altered Eastern
teachings of a Ruhani Satsang sect (Eckankar)
for 28 years in a more "Christian" direction.
Then again, Klemp was a Lutheran seminary
student and graduate so he's going with
what he "knows" best. But, HK's holier than
thou attitude Should Not be tolerated, any
longer, by EK H.I.s! Klemp can never be
forgiven (and certainly should not be followed)
even if he did, by some miracle, confess
This is a sad, sad argument that does
not hold water. When you are fooled into
something because you are told it is real,
then is it really your fault completely? No.
Blaming the victim is an easy out. Too
many eckists have very low self esteem.
They are quick to accept that they are
responsible for all their ills. This gives
con artists like klemp and twitchell a quick
road into your wallet, your mind and your
And, of your "experiences," there are more
viable explanations as to what these actually
are than the stupid, ill-conceived, idiotic,
ignorant explanations that eckankar comes
In short: Is klemp to blame? Damn right
he is. He's as guilty as any other liar and
con artist. He's a criminal, pure and simple,
taking money on false pretenses, pretending
to be something he is not and selling you
manure while telling you it's gold. You can
blame yourself, but I'm done beating myself
up and accepting the role as victim. I suppose
you'd also say that the victim of domestic
abuse is guilty because she got married one
day to the abuser who posed as a really nice
Okay, then, enjoy your delusions.
"I choose to follow eckankar. Since GOD
is universal than the teachings about
GOD are probably plagiarized from everyone
over the ages that follow GOD."
P- However, Eckankar teaches that this
"Universal God" is the KAL (Satan, Devil).
"So who the hell cares? Since I choose to
follow this path , it is my responsibility to
know what I am doing."
P- Actually, Eckankar is a "religion" and
not a "path." Klemp titled it "Eckankar,
RELIGION of the Light & Sound of God"
and NOT "Eckankar, PATH of the Light
& Sound of God." I wonder why he uses
the term "God" instead of 'SUGMAD?"
Is HK embarrassed to use Sugmad vs
God, or is he trying to trick newcomers?
And, if HK was really honest he'd let his
followers know that Eckankar is a sect
of Ruhani Satsang and that Kirpal Singh
was Paul's real master from 1955-1965!
"So do I see the experiences as I had
as a student, chela, with eckanker,
are false because I followed a cult,
I am not sure that is the point. Are
the experiences I had only based on
my involvement with a cult ? It is all
because I was brainwashed?"
P- I had experiences prior to Eckankar,
during Eckankar, and even more a better
ones AFTER Eckankar. Thus, it wasn't
Eckankar! However, most Eckists don't
have much experience with dreams, the
phenomenal, prophecy, inner healings,
visitations, Soul travel etc. prior to EK,
thus, Eckankar gets the credit when chelas
alter their thoughts, and focus upon these
ninny: "Maybe I am as brainwashed
as the "founders" of Eckanker."
P- Does that mean you're as dishonest too?
ninny: "Paul started a mailing list , not
because he was worried about people
finding GOD but because he could make
money from people seeking GOD."
P- I agree!
ninny: "Maybe. He showed in all his
plagiarist glory how people were seeking
GOD, and streamlined the whole process
into a new religion, Eckankar."
P- Twit only "streamlined" Ruhani Satsang
(for the Western mindset) by eliminating
chastity (the virtue for lust) and the Vegan
ninny: "My point is that no one was forced
into Eckankar, no one was held against
their will to stay in Eckankar, and even
though Eckankar is a cult, it did have
a reason that people followed it, and
it was not a living Eck master it was
about GOD . Not sure about any of you,
I was looking for GOD when I found
P- I agree that people weren't forced
to join, but they lied about or omitted
telling us about soooooo many things
including what would happen to us if
we changed our minds after the second
initiation... Astral hells!
Klemp made, what seemed at the time,
some necessary changes with how the
org was run. Darwin had the local areas
screwed up. However, HK was about
20 years too late with his H.I. Leadership
book.... so much for being a "Modern
Prophet!" And, Klemp never followed-up
on his own advice.
Klemp has taken advantage of his "Mahanta"
title and the power and delusion that goes
with it.... go to the "inner!" Also, look at all
of the volunteering (service) that one has
to do in order to get promoted, and how
much emphasis is put on becoming a H.I.
and maintaining a current annual membership
($$$) or else one loses those outer and inner
initiations. I can see why the LEM believes
in "no free lunch" but why should that affect
the Mahanta and "inner initiations?" Why would/
should a Higher Initiate lose "inner initiations"
when an "outer" donation fee isn't paid? There
are more Catch-22s with Klemp's Eckankar
as he remains in power and becomes more
"Christian" like with his delusions! For most
Eckists "it's as above, so below" with their
- --- In email@example.com, "nimmy45440" <c.2nd@...> wrote:
>Not sure about any of you , I was looking for GOD when I found Eckankar.
>Eckankar is a lie factory designed to deceive gullible God seekers such as yourself into believing it is a religion above ALL religions. It claims to have existed since the beginning of time however there is not one shred of historical evidence of Eckankar or its past masters before 1965. It has been sufficiently debunked several years ago and its current followers are just a dwindling and drooling cadre of cosmic zombies.
- I love Alf's imagery.
No matter how you look at this thing, Eckankar is a stupid hoax perpetuated by mindless, dull and senseless characters. Yes, Alf, it was debunked. Those of us who are long out of this group still shake our heads and wonder what kind of thick-headed person would hold onto lies, or worse, ignore them.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:
> --- In email@example.com, "nimmy45440" <c.2nd@> wrote:
> Not sure about any of you , I was looking for GOD when I found Eckankar.
> Eckankar is a lie factory designed to deceive gullible God seekers such as yourself into believing it is a religion above ALL religions. It claims to have existed since the beginning of time however there is not one shred of historical evidence of Eckankar or its past masters before 1965. It has been sufficiently debunked several years ago and its current followers are just a dwindling and drooling cadre of cosmic zombies.