- This post just goes to prove once again that we who have left this joke of a rutted path have a never-ending intelligent rebuttal for all the nonsenseMessage 1 of 10 , Aug 7, 2009View SourceThis post just goes to prove once again that we who have left this joke of a rutted "path" have a never-ending intelligent rebuttal for all the nonsense eckankar puts out as pollution. A little research goes a long way in showing how absurd eckankar claims are and how distorted their "teachings" are. Klemp has to be either a sociopath or a demented person because how else could you in any other form of conscience, continue to proffer this trash and thereby make a living? It's astounding to me. There is just no defending the eckankar point of view with anything other than "Don't confuse me with the facts."
--- In email@example.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
> Hello Sharon and All,
> That's a great response to this EK
> nonsense. We're on the same wave
> BTW- As far as ninny's comments
> go, about following a "universal God,"
> this shows that eckists, in general,
> are either not very well read, aren't
> connecting the dots, or are being
> dishonest vahanas by side-stepping
> the facts.
> Kemp states, in his 2000 "Autobiography
> of a Modern Prophet," on page 385,
> that the religions of the world follow
> a 2nd or 4th Plane God. Thus, this
> Lower Plane God is the KAL (Satan
> or the Devil). If Eckists would just look
> up "Satan" or the "Devil" in the index
> of their Shariyat Book 2 they would
> see that it states that this is the KAL.
> Plus, many Eckists think that Twitchell
> is the originator of the quote: "Is it true,
> Is it necessary, is it kind?" Actually, this
> is a rule that the Buddha gave to his
> followers and to the world. Twitchell
> made it his own, and a part of the EK
> Dogma, without giving the Buddha any
> Another saying that one hears coming
> from the mouths of these brain-washed
> eckies is: "As Above So Below." They
> seem to be referring to the "higher
> God worlds. However, Klemp states,
> on page 51, in his EK Lexicon that:
> "doctrine of cycles. Based upon the
> fundamental principle in the Psychic
> philosophy, which is: as above, so
> Of course, Klemp took this from Twit's
> Eckankar Dictionary, but still applies it
> This next quote comes from the Preface
> of "The Path of the Masters" and is used
> in Klemp's December 2005 H.I. Letter:
> "Truth always expresses itself with the
> greatest simplicity."
> Here's another quote from the Preface
> of "Path" that Eckists might recognize:
> "Spirituality cannot be taught but caught."
> Here's another quote from "Path." It's
> a few pages after the Buddha quote.
> Eckists might recognize this one as well:
> "When the chela is ready, the Guru appears."
> Of course, Twitchell substituted "Master"
> for "Guru" when he recycled/stole this.
> Another thing that makes me wonder
> why Eckists still cling to their lower
> plane and false and/or recycled teachings,
> is the use and focus upon the Tisra Till
> (Third Eye). This is only an Astral chakra...
> and not even the highest Astral chakra!
> The Crown chakra is the highest Astral
> chakra. After 28 years, under Klemp's
> rule, Eckists are still instructed to focus
> upon the Third Eye when doing a HU
> Chant, or when "communicating" with
> the Mahanta (inner master)!
> Thus, Eckankar is a delusional and distorted
> religious sect built upon the greed and lies
> of both Paul and Gail. Gail was instrumental
> in having Darwin inherit the org and build it
> up until it could afford to pay her for Twitchell's
> copyrights... "Mahanta" being one!
> Sharon wrote:
> nimmy wrote:
> I choose to follow eckankar.
> Did you? Are you sure?
> Did you have all the facts?
> Was it informed consent?
> Or, like me, did you believe that
> simply because you saw Klemp in
> a robe in a dream before you'd
> ever heard of him that it must've
> been a "good" thing, "godly" in
> some way, and all the stuff in the
> books & discourses were true?
> Like me, did you believe that since
> you had a weird dream and/or happened
> to pick up an eckbook, read that you'd
> been with the LEM in many past lives,
> you were "chosen", and by golly you'd
> better not make the mistake of turning
> down the invitation in this lifetime because
> you might end up wandering in astral
> hell until the LEM took pity on you and
> gave you another chance?
> Since GOD is universal than the
> teachings about GOD are probably
> plagiarized from everyone over the
> ages that follow GOD. So who the
> hell cares?
> I do. Ekult claimed to be original, the
> highest, the truest, the fastest, the
> best. They lied. Deliberately.
> Hey, I no longer assume that "God"
> is "universal" or anything else. I don't
> believe *anything*.
> Just because John Wayne Gacy murdered
> lots of young boys, did that make it right
> for Jeffrey Dahmer to do it? Dahmer didn't
> *exactly* copy Gacy, because he didn't just
> bury his victims, he ate them.
> Two wrongs don't make a right.
> There's a difference between myths &
> stories which are passed down thru the
> oral tradition through the ages, and someone
> getting books from the library and copying
> them word-for-word, and not giving credit.
> Since I choose to follow this
> path , it is my responsibility to know what
> I am doing . So do I see the experiences as
> I had as a student , chela, with eckanker,
> are false because I followed a cult, I am not
> sure that is the point. Are the >experiences
> I had only based on my involvement with a
> cult ? It is all >because I was brainwashed?
> Hey, I had a hard time with this one too.
> I had "experiences" before I found those
> eckbooks & ended up joining. I made certain
> assumptions about those experiences, based
> on both what I felt and what I read about
> them in the books.
> Eventually, I questioned what I believed.
> And I'm glad I did. It actually made more
> sense, like instead of thinking that dream
> experience in a dark alley where Twitch
> was leading a sick perverted parade was
> an invasion by the Kal, I realized it was
> more likely to be true. And that first dream
> experience with Klemp - I looked again
> and saw it for what it was - Klemp leading
> me down stairs away from the bright light
> and putting me in a dark room. Gawd, it
> was *so* obvious!!!
> Look, if you focus on something and want
> to see/experience in dreams, it's likely to
> happen. The "spex" are self-hypnotic. Heck,
> I used to "program" my dreams at bedtime
> when I was a teenager!
> There's not really anything in ekult that
> you can't get elsewhere, freely and
> much more honestly, without a lot of
> lies & b.s. about "eckmasters" and the
> LEM and all that other eckancrap.
> I realize now that any of my pre-ekult
> experiences certainly had nothing to do
> with ekult or its false "master". I no longer
> even assume they were "good" or
> "spiritual", altho they certainly seemed
> to be, and they're like the ones that
> throughout the years have been credited
> to "god".
> But, I just don't know. Actually, it's not
> that important to me anymore. I'm
> not "seeking" anything anymore, I've
> got more than I want or need, and
> I realize no matter how much we like
> to think we "know" things, we can't.
> All we can do is speculate.
> We can't even know if something's
> "good" or "bad". Except for things like
> ice cream and grandkids, maybe. Heck,
> grandkids aren't always "good" but you
> love 'em anyway no matter what, and just
> be thankful that getting them to bed or
> to stop hitting each other or whatever
> isn't your problem. <gg>
> Maybe I am as brainwashed as the
> "founders" of Eckanker. Paul started
> a mailing list , not because he was
> worried about people finding GOD
> but >because he could make money
> from people seeking GOD . Maybe.
> He showed in >all his plagiarist glory
> how people were seeking GOD, and
> streamlined the >whole process
> into a new religion , Eckankar.
> Streamlined the process? You really
> think so? On the contrary, he complicated
> things and headed people in the wrong
> direction. Sure, people like to think
> that no matter what, whatever they've
> "experienced" is good and of "god" or
> whatever....but how can anyone be sure?
> Seriously, think about it - even Twitch
> wrote (or plagiarized) about those darned
> pesky deceptive entities who like to
> trick humans, then gather at the astral
> corner bar & ROFL about their shenanigans.
> My point is that no one was forced into
> Eckankar, no one was held against
> their will to stay in Eckankar, and even
> though Eckankar is a cult, it >did
> have a reason that people followed it ,
> and it was not a living Eck >master it
> was about GOD . Not sure about any
> of you , I was looking for >GOD when
> I found Eckankar.
> Nope, we weren't forced to join at gunpoint,
> but we were coerced and deceived into joining
> and staying.
> And that just wasn't right. It still isn't right.
> It's really a lot easier to just be honest, simple,
> and straightforward. Ekult's never done that,
> and never will. They just keep piling the lies
> higher & deeper, trying to make excuses, etc.
> Behavior like that isn't the least bit "godly" IMO.
> You know, it sort of reminds me of what
> often happens when someone's arrested
> for murder or child molesting or something
> else really awful, and their mothers & friends
> will say "But he was such a *good* boy!"
> Excuse me?
> Maybe my standards are too high?
> Anyway, hope everyone else is enjoying
> beautiful weather like I'm enjoying
> here!! Even though my squash have come
> down with powdery mildew & might not
> survive, I've already harvested & enjoyed
> several, hopefully spraying them with
> diluted milk works! And my tomatoes
> should start ripening soon, can't wait!!
> They're awesome this year!!!
- Hello Harrison and All, I really think that Gail Twitchell should be blamed as well as Paul, Darwin, and Klemp! Gail inspired and encouraged Paul to startMessage 2 of 10 , Aug 11, 2009View SourceHello Harrison and All,
I really think that Gail Twitchell should
be blamed as well as Paul, Darwin, and
Gail inspired and encouraged Paul to
start Eckankar. She was his secretary
and coconspirator, and gave talks promoting
him and his scam. She was not as innocent
as she appeared... if anything she was
as much to blame as Paul.
Then, Gail helped Darwin to get seated
in Paul's place in order to continue the
fraud after Paul died. She had set her sights
on Darwin (not vice versa) and he helped
her to continue her vitamin business and,
eventually, paid her $500,000 for Paul's
However, Klemp is the worst of all as he
took/takes the (false) and altered Eastern
teachings of a Ruhani Satsang sect (Eckankar)
for 28 years in a more "Christian" direction.
Then again, Klemp was a Lutheran seminary
student and graduate so he's going with
what he "knows" best. But, HK's holier than
thou attitude Should Not be tolerated, any
longer, by EK H.I.s! Klemp can never be
forgiven (and certainly should not be followed)
even if he did, by some miracle, confess
This is a sad, sad argument that does
not hold water. When you are fooled into
something because you are told it is real,
then is it really your fault completely? No.
Blaming the victim is an easy out. Too
many eckists have very low self esteem.
They are quick to accept that they are
responsible for all their ills. This gives
con artists like klemp and twitchell a quick
road into your wallet, your mind and your
And, of your "experiences," there are more
viable explanations as to what these actually
are than the stupid, ill-conceived, idiotic,
ignorant explanations that eckankar comes
In short: Is klemp to blame? Damn right
he is. He's as guilty as any other liar and
con artist. He's a criminal, pure and simple,
taking money on false pretenses, pretending
to be something he is not and selling you
manure while telling you it's gold. You can
blame yourself, but I'm done beating myself
up and accepting the role as victim. I suppose
you'd also say that the victim of domestic
abuse is guilty because she got married one
day to the abuser who posed as a really nice
Okay, then, enjoy your delusions.
"I choose to follow eckankar. Since GOD
is universal than the teachings about
GOD are probably plagiarized from everyone
over the ages that follow GOD."
P- However, Eckankar teaches that this
"Universal God" is the KAL (Satan, Devil).
"So who the hell cares? Since I choose to
follow this path , it is my responsibility to
know what I am doing."
P- Actually, Eckankar is a "religion" and
not a "path." Klemp titled it "Eckankar,
RELIGION of the Light & Sound of God"
and NOT "Eckankar, PATH of the Light
& Sound of God." I wonder why he uses
the term "God" instead of 'SUGMAD?"
Is HK embarrassed to use Sugmad vs
God, or is he trying to trick newcomers?
And, if HK was really honest he'd let his
followers know that Eckankar is a sect
of Ruhani Satsang and that Kirpal Singh
was Paul's real master from 1955-1965!
"So do I see the experiences as I had
as a student, chela, with eckanker,
are false because I followed a cult,
I am not sure that is the point. Are
the experiences I had only based on
my involvement with a cult ? It is all
because I was brainwashed?"
P- I had experiences prior to Eckankar,
during Eckankar, and even more a better
ones AFTER Eckankar. Thus, it wasn't
Eckankar! However, most Eckists don't
have much experience with dreams, the
phenomenal, prophecy, inner healings,
visitations, Soul travel etc. prior to EK,
thus, Eckankar gets the credit when chelas
alter their thoughts, and focus upon these
ninny: "Maybe I am as brainwashed
as the "founders" of Eckanker."
P- Does that mean you're as dishonest too?
ninny: "Paul started a mailing list , not
because he was worried about people
finding GOD but because he could make
money from people seeking GOD."
P- I agree!
ninny: "Maybe. He showed in all his
plagiarist glory how people were seeking
GOD, and streamlined the whole process
into a new religion, Eckankar."
P- Twit only "streamlined" Ruhani Satsang
(for the Western mindset) by eliminating
chastity (the virtue for lust) and the Vegan
ninny: "My point is that no one was forced
into Eckankar, no one was held against
their will to stay in Eckankar, and even
though Eckankar is a cult, it did have
a reason that people followed it, and
it was not a living Eck master it was
about GOD . Not sure about any of you,
I was looking for GOD when I found
P- I agree that people weren't forced
to join, but they lied about or omitted
telling us about soooooo many things
including what would happen to us if
we changed our minds after the second
initiation... Astral hells!
Klemp made, what seemed at the time,
some necessary changes with how the
org was run. Darwin had the local areas
screwed up. However, HK was about
20 years too late with his H.I. Leadership
book.... so much for being a "Modern
Prophet!" And, Klemp never followed-up
on his own advice.
Klemp has taken advantage of his "Mahanta"
title and the power and delusion that goes
with it.... go to the "inner!" Also, look at all
of the volunteering (service) that one has
to do in order to get promoted, and how
much emphasis is put on becoming a H.I.
and maintaining a current annual membership
($$$) or else one loses those outer and inner
initiations. I can see why the LEM believes
in "no free lunch" but why should that affect
the Mahanta and "inner initiations?" Why would/
should a Higher Initiate lose "inner initiations"
when an "outer" donation fee isn't paid? There
are more Catch-22s with Klemp's Eckankar
as he remains in power and becomes more
"Christian" like with his delusions! For most
Eckists "it's as above, so below" with their
- ... Not sure about any of you , I was looking for GOD when I found Eckankar. ... Eckankar is a lie factory designed to deceive gullible God seekers such asMessage 3 of 10 , Aug 18, 2009View Source--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "nimmy45440" <c.2nd@...> wrote:
>Not sure about any of you , I was looking for GOD when I found Eckankar.
>Eckankar is a lie factory designed to deceive gullible God seekers such as yourself into believing it is a religion above ALL religions. It claims to have existed since the beginning of time however there is not one shred of historical evidence of Eckankar or its past masters before 1965. It has been sufficiently debunked several years ago and its current followers are just a dwindling and drooling cadre of cosmic zombies.
- I love Alf s imagery. No matter how you look at this thing, Eckankar is a stupid hoax perpetuated by mindless, dull and senseless characters. Yes, Alf, it wasMessage 4 of 10 , Aug 19, 2009View SourceI love Alf's imagery.
No matter how you look at this thing, Eckankar is a stupid hoax perpetuated by mindless, dull and senseless characters. Yes, Alf, it was debunked. Those of us who are long out of this group still shake our heads and wonder what kind of thick-headed person would hold onto lies, or worse, ignore them.
--- In email@example.com, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "nimmy45440" <c.2nd@> wrote:
> Not sure about any of you , I was looking for GOD when I found Eckankar.
> Eckankar is a lie factory designed to deceive gullible God seekers such as yourself into believing it is a religion above ALL religions. It claims to have existed since the beginning of time however there is not one shred of historical evidence of Eckankar or its past masters before 1965. It has been sufficiently debunked several years ago and its current followers are just a dwindling and drooling cadre of cosmic zombies.