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Continuing Re:Sharon now Caught by the Ideology

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  • tygerpurr
    Actually, Colleen, I think you are missing a very important part of Alice Millers writings and research. She spoke out quite often about the diservice and even
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 1, 2007
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      Actually, Colleen, I think you are missing a very important part of
      Alice Millers writings and research. She spoke out quite often about
      the diservice and even damage that some Psychotherapists would do by
      attempting to force a state of forgiveness onto a patient, which is
      usually about the guilt feelings of the perpetrator. I see ek Trolls
      as obviously Perpetrators who are still continuing to do harm, and I
      believe that they should be confronted when they attempt to do so.
      They are still trying to blame the victim, something you have written
      about in the past. It is obvious that "city.summer"'s post is that of
      an ek Troll. I remember when I was in your Yahoo group to to support
      those who had left eckankarp. Sometimes you could be very direct with
      Trolls and those trying to proselytize and even ban them from the
      group. I thought this was very appropriate at the time. This made me
      feel safe in the group.

      The truth, imo, is that most perpetrators are or should be getting
      therapy or rehabilitation behind bars. Personally, I feel that it
      should be more about rehabilitation than punishment.

      Maybe someone should start a group for ek Trolls. : ) But maybe that
      would be A.R.E and not eckankartruth.

      Tygerpurr

      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen Russell"
      <colleenmft@...> wrote:
      >
      > Tygerpurr and All...
      >
      > I just read your post, Tygerpurr and what I find missing is the
      > acknowledgement that "we" were once "them" so that compassion toward
      > understanding how "they" are victimes of thought reform includes
      > compassion for ourselves and our own experience. When I was
      > functioning as a Mahdis, I thought anyone who viewed Eckankar as a
      > cult was delusional, as I had internalized Eckankar's ideology, as
      > Alice Miller describes in "identification with the aggressor" who, I
      > believe, was no other than the Living Eck Master and others who
      > complied with his control. I've found from my own and others
      > expeience as former members that it can take years to disconfirm the
      > deeply-held, inaccurate, self-limiting beliefs acquired in Eckankar.
      > As I began to break through my denial and rationalizations so that I
      > could psychologically and physically leave the org, the process was
      > at times very frightening. Situations would arise that triggered what
      > ws "right" or "wrong" according to the LEM 's dictates. I had a
      > choice to comply with the self-limiting beliefs or break free from
      > them for my self-development.
      >
      > The person who came here and commented was helpful in initiating this
      > discussion. I don't know if she/he is genuine or a troll.
      >
      > If someone genuinely wants to leave Eckankar and heal from its
      > abuses, each has, as we know, his/her own plan or process.
      > Confronting someone about the deception too harshly could possibly
      > push them back to some degree into the grip of the thought reform.
      > Educating about Eckankar's deception and the process of thought
      > reform can be helpful when it can be accepted, through a process of
      > accessing the degree to which a person is open to reality.
      >
      > Colleen
      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Leaf,
      > >
      > > I'm not sure where you are coming from. WHy would compassion and
      > > speaking out necessarily "always be mutually exclusive"? You've lost
      > > me here. I guess where i'm coming from is probably frustration with
      > > these Eckist Trolls who will continue to appear, and their purpose
      > is
      > > to simply disrupt any anti ek talk. They would I'm sure love it if
      > > these groups disappeared and then they could dance a deluded jig and
      > > then continue to spread the ek fraud dogma, unabated.
      > >
      > > I suppose, that the answer to your question has more to do with the
      > > context of the situation. I am not a Saint nor do I claim to be God
      > or
      > > Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for these eckist and
      > > execkists to think they are or ever will be. IMHO this is a huge
      > > inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument of sorts is just the
      > > right medicine. Opposition when in a state of extreme delusion may
      > at
      > > times be best. Always being nice may not be the best approach.
      > Shaming
      > > and insulting said person may not be wise, but then we are human and
      > > this happens even against our best intentions. Understanding this,
      > is
      > > to me a form of Compassion that may be an antidote to what is really
      > > going on, which is a form of Self-hate.
      > >
      > > Understanding and compassion and speaking out against child abuse,
      > for
      > > example can be a complex endvour, and it may be very worthwhile.
      > Have
      > > you read any of Alice Miller's books? There is one "For YOur Own
      > Good"
      > > that even discusses HItler and I think she has also written about
      > > Stalin from a psycho/social perspective. She points out that some
      > > choose a destructive path, while others may choose the creative and
      > > artistic. What makes the difference?
      > >
      > > For myself, the context of a message board is quite different than a
      > > Psychotherapeutic session. As far as say HItler what if he had lived
      > > in a society or slightly different situation in which he was taught
      > > some level of kindness towards mankind. ON the other hand, we may
      > have
      > > been a lot better off if he had been just assasinted early on in his
      > > political career.
      > >
      > > I was not trying to direct my post at you personally, just giving my
      > > own take on things, and the funny thing is that this "city.summer"
      > > person probably is not even reading any of this as we may think.
      > That
      > > is what Trolls do. But then others may be getting something out of
      > it
      > > and may actually leave the ek org. : )
      > >
      > > I'm glad you are still posting here and I actually liked what you
      > had
      > > to say, friend.
      > >
      > > Tygerpurr ; )
      > > Re: Sharon will hate this i suppose
      > >
      > > Hi Tygerpurr:
      > >
      > > Regarding this comment you made:
      > >
      > > I believe in compassion and understanding when it comes to mental
      > > > illness and even truely bad people (like not believing in the
      > death
      > > > penalty), but I also believe that it is right to speak out against
      > > > FRAUD and PATHOLOGICAL LIARS, etc. and to do something to stop
      > those
      > > > who choose to do harm, even if it means something as simple as
      > > telling
      > > > someone that they are wrong and why.
      > >
      > >
      > > In your view, are these two approaches, one of having compassion,
      > and
      > > one of speaking out against lies, always mutually exclusive, or do
      > > you feel that in some cases the two approaches could be effectively
      > > combined?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I don't know who "city.summer" is but usually when someone says
      > > > something like "I don't mean to offend you" or "with all due
      > > respect",
      > > > it is a fair warning that they know they are intentionally being
      > > > offensive, mean or disrespectful. I recently spoke with someone
      > > about
      > > > how difficult it is to talk to a die hard Eckist who actually
      > > believes
      > > > that Harold Klemp IS the INcarnation of God, and he said that we
      > > > should have tolerance for all religions? I asked him if he felt
      > the
      > > > same way about the Nazi Religion. This smacks of just plain
      > apathy.
      > > >
      > > > I believe in compassion and understanding when it comes to mental
      > > > illness and even truely bad people (like not believing in the
      > death
      > > > penalty), but I also believe that it is right to speak out against
      > > > FRAUD and PATHOLOGICAL LIARS, etc. and to do something to stop
      > those
      > > > who choose to do harm, even if it means something as simple as
      > > telling
      > > > someone that they are wrong and why.
      > > >
      > > > "city.summer" really should get some help and stop supporting
      > > > Fraudulant malicious Cults like Eckankar.
      > > >
      > > > QUESTION AUTHORITY!!!
      > > >
      > > > Tygerpurr ; )
      > > >
      > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "city.summer" <city.summer@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi Sharon,
      > > > > I see that you still know what is being sold on ebay concerning
      > > > > Eckankar. Does that mean that you are still interested? If so
      > why
      > > > > don`t you go the whole way and apply for membership again????
      > > Don`t
      > > > > mistake me and don`t piss me off in your response. It is logical
      > > to
      > > > > become a member in your case as you are still reading all the
      > > stuff.
      > > > > You can do it with awareness, read it in a different way. You
      > > don`t
      > > > > want to be known by the others? Do you have a second name then
      > > you
      > > > > might want to use that. If you`re in trouble with the courses
      > ask
      > > > > someone for help. you know colleen you know leaf and Alf they
      > can
      > > > > assist, no???????????????!!
      > > > > C´mon you still love it otherwise you wouldn`t bother.
      > > > > Hahaha. Yes I am laughing.
      > > > > If someone has a fear of dog`s for example or hates dog`s the
      > > only
      > > > > real cure is (eventually) to face the dog again, then the
      > problem
      > > can
      > > > > fade...
      > > > > Love
      > > > > Summer
      > > > > in the winter.
      > > > > Over here in Europe we had the first snow today.
      > > > > That`s why I escaped into a cafe and found internet, because it
      > > was
      > > > > too fuckin´ cold on the bike.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > >
      >
    • tygerpurr
      Colleen, not sure why you changed the original heading from Sharon will hate this.... Tygerpurr
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 1, 2007
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        Colleen, not sure why you changed the original heading from "Sharon
        will hate this...."

        Tygerpurr
      • colleen
        I am aware of Alice Miller s and other s focus on not forcing a state of forgivenenss (or any other state) on clients or patients...I certainly agree. This
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 1, 2007
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          I am aware of Alice Miller's and other's focus on not
          forcing a state of forgivenenss (or any other state)
          on clients or patients...I certainly agree. This isn't
          a dialogue here between client and therapist however.
          I was expressing my opinion about the similarities
          between "us" and "them" when we were entrenched in our
          belief that as "eckists" we were the "chosen ones" and
          outsiders were under the illusion of the negative
          force.

          From my perspective, I don't have any information that
          points to anyone posting here recently as a
          perpetrator of abuse.

          I appreciate your opinion, and I'm jumping into the
          discussion here, not as a moderator/facilitator of the
          other group I began. If I have written something that
          leads to you feel unsafe in any way, this wasn't my
          intent and I apologize for any discomfort I may have
          inadvertently caused you.

          Colleen




          Colleen

          (of abuse, but that is my opinion.

          Colleen
          --- tygerpurr <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          > Actually, Colleen, I think you are missing a very
          > important part of
          > Alice Millers writings and research. She spoke out
          > quite often about
          > the diservice and even damage that some
          > Psychotherapists would do by
          > attempting to force a state of forgiveness onto a
          > patient, which is
          > usually about the guilt feelings of the perpetrator.
          > I see ek Trolls
          > as obviously Perpetrators who are still continuing
          > to do harm, and I
          > believe that they should be confronted when they
          > attempt to do so.
          > They are still trying to blame the victim, something
          > you have written
          > about in the past. It is obvious that
          > "city.summer"'s post is that of
          > an ek Troll. I remember when I was in your Yahoo
          > group to to support
          > those who had left eckankarp. Sometimes you could be
          > very direct with
          > Trolls and those trying to proselytize and even ban
          > them from the
          > group. I thought this was very appropriate at the
          > time. This made me
          > feel safe in the group.
          >
          > The truth, imo, is that most perpetrators are or
          > should be getting
          > therapy or rehabilitation behind bars. Personally, I
          > feel that it
          > should be more about rehabilitation than punishment.
          >
          >
          > Maybe someone should start a group for ek Trolls. :
          > ) But maybe that
          > would be A.R.E and not eckankartruth.
          >
          > Tygerpurr
          >
          > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen
          > Russell"
          > <colleenmft@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Tygerpurr and All...
          > >
          > > I just read your post, Tygerpurr and what I find
          > missing is the
          > > acknowledgement that "we" were once "them" so that
          > compassion toward
          > > understanding how "they" are victimes of thought
          > reform includes
          > > compassion for ourselves and our own experience.
          > When I was
          > > functioning as a Mahdis, I thought anyone who
          > viewed Eckankar as a
          > > cult was delusional, as I had internalized
          > Eckankar's ideology, as
          > > Alice Miller describes in "identification with the
          > aggressor" who, I
          > > believe, was no other than the Living Eck Master
          > and others who
          > > complied with his control. I've found from my own
          > and others
          > > expeience as former members that it can take years
          > to disconfirm the
          > > deeply-held, inaccurate, self-limiting beliefs
          > acquired in Eckankar.
          > > As I began to break through my denial and
          > rationalizations so that I
          > > could psychologically and physically leave the
          > org, the process was
          > > at times very frightening. Situations would arise
          > that triggered what
          > > ws "right" or "wrong" according to the LEM 's
          > dictates. I had a
          > > choice to comply with the self-limiting beliefs or
          > break free from
          > > them for my self-development.
          > >
          > > The person who came here and commented was helpful
          > in initiating this
          > > discussion. I don't know if she/he is genuine or
          > a troll.
          > >
          > > If someone genuinely wants to leave Eckankar and
          > heal from its
          > > abuses, each has, as we know, his/her own plan or
          > process.
          > > Confronting someone about the deception too
          > harshly could possibly
          > > push them back to some degree into the grip of the
          > thought reform.
          > > Educating about Eckankar's deception and the
          > process of thought
          > > reform can be helpful when it can be accepted,
          > through a process of
          > > accessing the degree to which a person is open to
          > reality.
          > >
          > > Colleen
          > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr
          > <no_reply@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi Leaf,
          > > >
          > > > I'm not sure where you are coming from. WHy
          > would compassion and
          > > > speaking out necessarily "always be mutually
          > exclusive"? You've lost
          > > > me here. I guess where i'm coming from is
          > probably frustration with
          > > > these Eckist Trolls who will continue to appear,
          > and their purpose
          > > is
          > > > to simply disrupt any anti ek talk. They would
          > I'm sure love it if
          > > > these groups disappeared and then they could
          > dance a deluded jig and
          > > > then continue to spread the ek fraud dogma,
          > unabated.
          > > >
          > > > I suppose, that the answer to your question has
          > more to do with the
          > > > context of the situation. I am not a Saint nor
          > do I claim to be God
          > > or
          > > > Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for
          > these eckist and
          > > > execkists to think they are or ever will be.
          > IMHO this is a huge
          > > > inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument
          > of sorts is just the
          > > > right medicine. Opposition when in a state of
          > extreme delusion may
          > > at
          > > > times be best. Always being nice may not be the
          > best approach.
          > > Shaming
          > > > and insulting said person may not be wise, but
          > then we are human and
          > > > this happens even against our best intentions.
          > Understanding this,
          > > is
          > > > to me a form of Compassion that may be an
          > antidote to what is really
          > > > going on, which is a form of Self-hate.
          > > >
          > > > Understanding and compassion and speaking out
          > against child abuse,
          > > for
          > > > example can be a complex endvour, and it may be
          > very worthwhile.
          > > Have
          > > > you read any of Alice Miller's books? There is
          > one "For YOur Own
          > > Good"
          > > > that even discusses HItler and I think she has
          > also written about
          > > > Stalin from a psycho/social perspective. She
          > points out that some
          > > > choose a destructive path, while others may
          > choose the creative and
          > > > artistic. What makes the difference?
          > > >
          > > > For myself, the context of a message board is
          > quite different than a
          > > > Psychotherapeutic session. As far as say HItler
          > what if he had lived
          > > > in a society or slightly different situation in
          > which he was taught
          > > > some level of kindness towards mankind. ON the
          > other hand, we may
          > > have
          > > > been a lot better off if he had been just
          > assasinted early on in his
          > > > political career.
          > > >
          > > > I was not trying to direct my post at you
          > personally, just giving my
          > > > own take on things, and the funny thing is that
          > this "city.summer"
          > > > person probably is not even reading any of this
          > as we may think.
          > > That
          > > > is what Trolls do. But then others may be
          > getting something out of
          > > it
          > > > and may actually leave the ek org. : )
          > > >
          > > > I'm glad you are still posting here and I
          > actually liked what you
          > > had
          > > > to say, friend.
          > > >
          > > > Tygerpurr ; )
          > > > Re: Sharon will hate this i suppose
          > > >
          > > > Hi Tygerpurr:
          > > >
          >
          === message truncated ===


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        • tygerpurr
          Yes it is rather obvious that this post from city.summer was simply meant to be an insult full of sarcasm. This individual has not attempted to show any
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 3, 2007
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            Yes it is rather obvious that this post from "city.summer" was simply
            meant to be an insult full of sarcasm. This individual has not
            attempted to show any remorse at all, nor asked for assistance.
            Actually, there is a wealth of information in the Links and files. I
            don't see a troubled eckist or even an ex eckist asking for help. I
            see an eckist trying to stir up trouble on an anti eckankar and anti
            Harold Klemp (self proclaimed God of all Universes) etc. Message
            Board. These type of people are just perpetrators attempting to cause
            harm to those courageous enough to leave eckanCULT. They should be
            confronted for such behaviour.

            If anyone leaves ECKANKAR and they were in a position of authority,
            they should post a Public letter of apology, either with their real
            name or at least anonymously. I may set up a file at my Yahoo group
            "xeckankar the chains of eck" for just this purpose. Sometimes ex
            eckists hate it that people continue to speak out against ECKANKAR,
            mainly because they still harbor guilt feelings for what they have
            been a part of. They want everyone to forgive them and then go away.

            Tygerpurr ; )

            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "city.summer" <city.summer@...>
            wrote:
            >
            Sharon will hate this i suppose

            Hi Sharon,
            I see that you still know what is being sold on ebay concerning
            Eckankar. Does that mean that you are still interested? If so why
            don`t you go the whole way and apply for membership again???? Don`t
            mistake me and don`t piss me off in your response. It is logical to
            become a member in your case as you are still reading all the stuff.
            You can do it with awareness, read it in a different way. You don`t
            want to be known by the others? Do you have a second name then you
            might want to use that. If you`re in trouble with the courses ask
            someone for help. you know colleen you know leaf and Alf they can
            assist, no???????????????!!
            C´mon you still love it otherwise you wouldn`t bother.
            Hahaha. Yes I am laughing.
            If someone has a fear of dog`s for example or hates dog`s the only
            real cure is (eventually) to face the dog again, then the problem can
            fade...
            Love
            Summer
            in the winter.
            Over here in Europe we had the first snow today.
            That`s why I escaped into a cafe and found internet, because it was
            too fuckin´ cold on the bike.


            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Sharon <brighttigress@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > A few comments, been busy & traveling here, backlog on email -
            >
            > Leaf - I was confused on your quotes post because I got it in
            email with a whole bunch of those confusing >>>>>'s but the post at
            the website shows up without them, thank goodness! And I wrote a
            response the other day but I think it didn't go thru.
            >
            > John Morton - they're called "Nehru" shirts, after India's leader
            back then, who always wore them. Google "nehru shirts" and you'll
            get lots of sources to buy them, evidently they're "back".
            >
            > I almost totally don't recall a Broadway show I went to back in
            the 70's, could it have been "Sgt. Pepper"? The only thing I
            remember is the "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" number, I was totally
            wasted and in the first row balcony, had an almost overwhelming urge
            to puke but managed to stifle and not ruin the show for the people
            below me. And is my memory correct - back then, couldn't you smoke
            in theaters? Seems to me I recall the seats in Radio City Music
            Hall had little ashtrays built in? Or was that Madison Square Garden?
            >
            > Yeah, the Beatles were *so* great - does anyone else wonder
            exactly what was so great about them? Their music was so simple,
            IMO, but it's still magic!
            >
            > Oh!! Almost forgot - right now someone's selling Satsang & HI
            discourses over at Ebay. If you've seen them, you know they're not
            worth the paper they're printed on, but it can be helpful to see
            those "HI" things and realize even more that there's *nothing* worth
            staying in e-kult for!
            >
            > Bye all, have a great day!!
            >
            > Hugs,
            >
            > Sharon
            >
            >
            >
            > eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            > EckankarTruth
            > Messages In This Digest (2 Messages)
            > 1a.
            > Re: Across the Universe From: al_radzik
            > 1b.
            > Re: Across the Universe + beatle shirts From: John Morton
            > View All Topics | Create New Topic
            > Messages
            > 1a.
            > Re: Across the Universe Posted by: "al_radzik"
            no_reply@yahoogroups.com al_radzik Mon Nov 5, 2007 9:13 am
            (PST) --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater"
            <tianyue@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Best movie I've seen in a while is "Across the Universe," which
            > > brilliantly uses Beatles music to create a storyline.
            > >
            > > I really, really enjoyed that film. Reminded me of my childhood.
            > > Brought me to tears, in fact.
            > >
            > >
            > > Go see it.
            > >
            > >
            > > If any of you still have a living pulse beating in you, you'll
            love
            > > it.
            > >
            > >
            > > Conservative, anal, stick-up-your-ass types, in or out of
            eckankar,
            > > need not bother. Save your money for your local police fund.
            > >
            > >
            > > Holier-than-thou types, in eckankar or out, need not bother
            either.
            > > You won't like it. Save your money for church.
            > >
            > >
            > > Leafeater (child of the late 60's)
            > >
            > > (Ate lots of leaves and left)
            > >
            >
            > Hey Leaf,
            > I haven't seen it yet but it's on my list. Are you a Beatles
            > fanatic like me? If you ever ever ever get the chance, go see a
            band
            > called the Fab Faux. There's about thirteen people in the band and
            > they do an ALL live Beatle show.I've seen these stupid Beatmania
            > wannabees come and go, but these folks are incredible!!! They even
            do
            > the backwards part at the end of Strawberry Fields.
            >
            > Mean Mr. Mustard
            >
            >
            > Back to top
            > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
            > Messages in this topic (4)
          • city.summer
            Hallo Sharon, to become a member again is good, because one can go through the rest of the hurts and troubles. If`ve tried it, - that is why I do not
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 5, 2007
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              Hallo Sharon,
              to become a member again is good, because one can go through
              the "rest" of the hurts and troubles.
              If`ve tried it, - that is why I do not mention my name. It is
              pointless - would only cause me trouble. I really pretended, and I
              think some Eckists who read this will know it is "me" anyway. (Yep I
              know it).
              The promises Eckankar made and in which I trusted broke my heart
              somehow. I could feel that again when I was a member for a year!! And
              could say good bye more and more to this broken heart.
              Did I make myself understood?? It is not that I suggest to become
              dependend again, but more like to become less depended. It did me
              some good to be a member again.
              Fully pretending that I loved it all. Wasn`t that easy but a tiny
              little bit of fun was also there (hahaha).
              Does it take some sort of humour to pretend to be a full Eckist??
              Love
              Summer



              --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > Yes it is rather obvious that this post from "city.summer" was
              simply
              > meant to be an insult full of sarcasm. This individual has not
              > attempted to show any remorse at all, nor asked for assistance.
              > Actually, there is a wealth of information in the Links and files. I
              > don't see a troubled eckist or even an ex eckist asking for help. I
              > see an eckist trying to stir up trouble on an anti eckankar and anti
              > Harold Klemp (self proclaimed God of all Universes) etc. Message
              > Board. These type of people are just perpetrators attempting to
              cause
              > harm to those courageous enough to leave eckanCULT. They should be
              > confronted for such behaviour.
              >
              > If anyone leaves ECKANKAR and they were in a position of authority,
              > they should post a Public letter of apology, either with their real
              > name or at least anonymously. I may set up a file at my Yahoo group
              > "xeckankar the chains of eck" for just this purpose. Sometimes ex
              > eckists hate it that people continue to speak out against ECKANKAR,
              > mainly because they still harbor guilt feelings for what they have
              > been a part of. They want everyone to forgive them and then go away.
              >
              > Tygerpurr ; )
              >
              > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "city.summer" <city.summer@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > Sharon will hate this i suppose
              >
              > Hi Sharon,
              > I see that you still know what is being sold on ebay concerning
              > Eckankar. Does that mean that you are still interested? If so why
              > don`t you go the whole way and apply for membership again???? Don`t
              > mistake me and don`t piss me off in your response. It is logical to
              > become a member in your case as you are still reading all the stuff.
              > You can do it with awareness, read it in a different way. You don`t
              > want to be known by the others? Do you have a second name then you
              > might want to use that. If you`re in trouble with the courses ask
              > someone for help. you know colleen you know leaf and Alf they can
              > assist, no???????????????!!
              > C´mon you still love it otherwise you wouldn`t bother.
              > Hahaha. Yes I am laughing.
              > If someone has a fear of dog`s for example or hates dog`s the only
              > real cure is (eventually) to face the dog again, then the problem
              can
              > fade...
              > Love
              > Summer
              > in the winter.
              > Over here in Europe we had the first snow today.
              > That`s why I escaped into a cafe and found internet, because it was
              > too fuckin´ cold on the bike.
              >
              >
              > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Sharon <brighttigress@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > A few comments, been busy & traveling here, backlog on email -
              > >
              > > Leaf - I was confused on your quotes post because I got it in
              > email with a whole bunch of those confusing >>>>>'s but the post at
              > the website shows up without them, thank goodness! And I wrote a
              > response the other day but I think it didn't go thru.
              > >
              > > John Morton - they're called "Nehru" shirts, after India's leader
              > back then, who always wore them. Google "nehru shirts" and you'll
              > get lots of sources to buy them, evidently they're "back".
              > >
              > > I almost totally don't recall a Broadway show I went to back in
              > the 70's, could it have been "Sgt. Pepper"? The only thing I
              > remember is the "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" number, I was
              totally
              > wasted and in the first row balcony, had an almost overwhelming urge
              > to puke but managed to stifle and not ruin the show for the people
              > below me. And is my memory correct - back then, couldn't you smoke
              > in theaters? Seems to me I recall the seats in Radio City Music
              > Hall had little ashtrays built in? Or was that Madison Square
              Garden?
              > >
              > > Yeah, the Beatles were *so* great - does anyone else wonder
              > exactly what was so great about them? Their music was so simple,
              > IMO, but it's still magic!
              > >
              > > Oh!! Almost forgot - right now someone's selling Satsang & HI
              > discourses over at Ebay. If you've seen them, you know they're not
              > worth the paper they're printed on, but it can be helpful to see
              > those "HI" things and realize even more that there's *nothing* worth
              > staying in e-kult for!
              > >
              > > Bye all, have a great day!!
              > >
              > > Hugs,
              > >
              > > Sharon
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com wrote:
              > > EckankarTruth
              > > Messages In This Digest (2 Messages)
              > > 1a.
              > > Re: Across the Universe From: al_radzik
              > > 1b.
              > > Re: Across the Universe + beatle shirts From: John Morton
              > > View All Topics | Create New Topic
              > > Messages
              > > 1a.
              > > Re: Across the Universe Posted by: "al_radzik"
              > no_reply@yahoogroups.com al_radzik Mon Nov 5, 2007 9:13 am
              > (PST) --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater"
              > <tianyue@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Best movie I've seen in a while is "Across the Universe," which
              > > > brilliantly uses Beatles music to create a storyline.
              > > >
              > > > I really, really enjoyed that film. Reminded me of my childhood.
              > > > Brought me to tears, in fact.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Go see it.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > If any of you still have a living pulse beating in you, you'll
              > love
              > > > it.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Conservative, anal, stick-up-your-ass types, in or out of
              > eckankar,
              > > > need not bother. Save your money for your local police fund.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Holier-than-thou types, in eckankar or out, need not bother
              > either.
              > > > You won't like it. Save your money for church.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Leafeater (child of the late 60's)
              > > >
              > > > (Ate lots of leaves and left)
              > > >
              > >
              > > Hey Leaf,
              > > I haven't seen it yet but it's on my list. Are you a Beatles
              > > fanatic like me? If you ever ever ever get the chance, go see a
              > band
              > > called the Fab Faux. There's about thirteen people in the band and
              > > they do an ALL live Beatle show.I've seen these stupid Beatmania
              > > wannabees come and go, but these folks are incredible!!! They even
              > do
              > > the backwards part at the end of Strawberry Fields.
              > >
              > > Mean Mr. Mustard
              > >
              > >
              > > Back to top
              > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
              > > Messages in this topic (4)
              >
            • city.summer
              I do not know you Ingrid!! All the best for you and don´t get over concerned! Summer ... a ... Everything ... ... why ... logical ... ask ...
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 5, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                I do not know you Ingrid!!
                All the best for you and don´t get over concerned!
                Summer

                --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie" <ctecvie@...> wrote:
                >
                > Sharon,
                >
                > I know Summer from a German ex-eckist group. She has been out of
                > eckankar for a long time but is somehow unstable. Summer, remember
                > eck-ist-eck? You did the same thing to us than you did to Sharon
                > here ...
                >
                > Other than that, agree with what you wrote here, Sharon! :-)
                >
                > Ingrid
                >
                > "Sharon" <brighttigress@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Ha, gotta laugh at this one. "Summer", I had a feeling you were
                a
                > > loyal member of the mahaunta's "Truth Corps." But I'm
                > curious...why
                > > are eckies so disturbed about people who wake up and leave, and
                > speak
                > > out about it? Why do you cultpuppies feel the need
                > to "infiltrate"?
                > > You're certainly not the first, and not the last, either.
                > >
                > > Don't you realize how you're violating those "spirichul laws" you
                > > claim the cult teaches, and that you supposedly believe in?
                > >
                > > You people are just SO clueless. You just don't get it, do you?
                > >
                > > You don't realize how totally blind and brainwashed you are.
                > >
                > > You see, I don't really worry about cultpuppies sneaking in here
                > > because I know eventually, you'll reveal yourselves and everyone
                > can
                > > see that ekulties are just as sneaky and deceptive as their
                > > phony "masters" are.
                > >
                > > You just don't get it.
                > >
                > > Everyone - take a good look at "Summer's" post, below.
                Everything
                > > she thinks and writes is a direct result of cult brainwashing.
                > > Twitch was shrewd - he incorporated a lot of b.s. when he set up
                > his
                > > little scam because he'd studied cults and how they work, and he
                > knew
                > > what he'd have to program members with to try to inoculate them
                > > against the truth, because he knew they'd eventually hear it.
                > >
                > > Sharon
                > >
                > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "city.summer"
                <city.summer@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Sharon,
                > > > I see that you still know what is being sold on ebay concerning
                > > > Eckankar. Does that mean that you are still interested? If so
                why
                > > > don`t you go the whole way and apply for membership again????
                > Don`t
                > > > mistake me and don`t piss me off in your response. It is
                logical
                > to
                > > > become a member in your case as you are still reading all the
                > > stuff.
                > > > You can do it with awareness, read it in a different way. You
                > don`t
                > > > want to be known by the others? Do you have a second name then
                > you
                > > > might want to use that. If you`re in trouble with the courses
                ask
                > > > someone for help. you know colleen you know leaf and Alf they
                can
                > > > assist, no???????????????!!
                > > > C´mon you still love it otherwise you wouldn`t bother.
                > > > Hahaha. Yes I am laughing.
                > > > If someone has a fear of dog`s for example or hates dog`s the
                > only
                > > > real cure is (eventually) to face the dog again, then the
                problem
                > > can
                > > > fade...
                > > > Love
                > > > Summer
                > > > in the winter.
                > > > Over here in Europe we had the first snow today.
                > > > That`s why I escaped into a cafe and found internet, because
                it
                > > was
                > > > too fuckin´ cold on the bike.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Sharon <brighttigress@>
                > > > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > A few comments, been busy & traveling here, backlog on email -
                > > > >
                > > > > Leaf - I was confused on your quotes post because I got it
                in
                > > > email with a whole bunch of those confusing >>>>>'s but the
                post
                > at
                > > > the website shows up without them, thank goodness! And I
                wrote
                > a
                > > > response the other day but I think it didn't go thru.
                > > > >
                > > > > John Morton - they're called "Nehru" shirts, after India's
                > > leader
                > > > back then, who always wore them. Google "nehru shirts" and
                > you'll
                > > > get lots of sources to buy them, evidently they're "back".
                > > > >
                > > > > I almost totally don't recall a Broadway show I went to
                back
                > in
                > > > the 70's, could it have been "Sgt. Pepper"? The only thing I
                > > > remember is the "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" number, I was
                > > totally
                > > > wasted and in the first row balcony, had an almost overwhelming
                > > urge
                > > > to puke but managed to stifle and not ruin the show for the
                > people
                > > > below me. And is my memory correct - back then, couldn't you
                > smoke
                > > > in theaters? Seems to me I recall the seats in Radio City
                Music
                > > > Hall had little ashtrays built in? Or was that Madison Square
                > > Garden?
                > > > >
                > > > > Yeah, the Beatles were *so* great - does anyone else wonder
                > > > exactly what was so great about them? Their music was so
                simple,
                > > > IMO, but it's still magic!
                > > > >
                > > > > Oh!! Almost forgot - right now someone's selling Satsang &
                > HI
                > > > discourses over at Ebay. If you've seen them, you know they're
                > not
                > > > worth the paper they're printed on, but it can be helpful to
                see
                > > > those "HI" things and realize even more that there's *nothing*
                > > worth
                > > > staying in e-kult for!
                > > > >
                > > > > Bye all, have a great day!!
                > > > >
                > > > > Hugs,
                > > > >
                > > > > Sharon
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                > > > > EckankarTruth
                > > > > Messages In This Digest (2 Messages)
                > > > > 1a.
                > > > > Re: Across the Universe From: al_radzik
                > > > > 1b.
                > > > > Re: Across the Universe + beatle shirts From: John Morton
                > > > > View All Topics | Create New Topic
                > > > > Messages
                > > > > 1a.
                > > > > Re: Across the Universe Posted by: "al_radzik"
                > > > no_reply@yahoogroups.com al_radzik Mon Nov 5, 2007 9:13 am
                > > > (PST) --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater"
                > > > <tianyue@>
                > > > > wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Best movie I've seen in a while is "Across the Universe,"
                > which
                > > > > > brilliantly uses Beatles music to create a storyline.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I really, really enjoyed that film. Reminded me of my
                > > childhood.
                > > > > > Brought me to tears, in fact.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Go see it.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > If any of you still have a living pulse beating in you,
                > you'll
                > > > love
                > > > > > it.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Conservative, anal, stick-up-your-ass types, in or out of
                > > > eckankar,
                > > > > > need not bother. Save your money for your local police
                fund.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Holier-than-thou types, in eckankar or out, need not bother
                > > > either.
                > > > > > You won't like it. Save your money for church.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Leafeater (child of the late 60's)
                > > > > >
                > > > > > (Ate lots of leaves and left)
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Hey Leaf,
                > > > > I haven't seen it yet but it's on my list. Are you a Beatles
                > > > > fanatic like me? If you ever ever ever get the chance, go see
                a
                > > > band
                > > > > called the Fab Faux. There's about thirteen people in the
                band
                > > and
                > > > > they do an ALL live Beatle show.I've seen these stupid
                > Beatmania
                > > > > wannabees come and go, but these folks are incredible!!! They
                > > even
                > > > do
                > > > > the backwards part at the end of Strawberry Fields.
                > > > >
                > > > > Mean Mr. Mustard
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Back to top
                > > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
                > > > > Messages in this topic (4)
                > > > >
                > > > > 1b.
                > > > > Re: Across the Universe + beatle shirts Posted
                by: "John
                > > > Morton" codeygoo@ codeygoo Mon Nov 5, 2007 4:31 pm (PST)
                > > > What were those colorful paisley like collarless shirts from
                > india
                > > > that the beatles wore during the taping of all you need is love
                > and
                > > > with the maaharishi?
                > > > >
                > > > > Where do I buy them?
                > > > > Thanks
                > > > > J
                > > > >
                > > > > al_radzik <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                > > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater"
                <tianyue@>
                > > > > wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Best movie I've seen in a while is "Across the Universe,"
                > which
                > > > > > brilliantly uses Beatles music to create a storyline.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I really, really enjoyed that film. Reminded me of my
                > > childhood.
                > > > > > Brought me to tears, in fact.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Go see it.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > If any of you still have a living pulse beating in you,
                > you'll
                > > > love
                > > > > > it.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Conservative, anal, stick-up-your-ass types, in or out of
                > > > eckankar,
                > > > > > need not bother. Save your money for your local police
                fund.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Holier-than-thou types, in eckankar or out, need not bother
                > > > either.
                > > > > > You won't like it. Save your money for church.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Leafeater (child of the late 60's)
                > > > > >
                > > > > > (Ate lots of leaves and left)
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Hey Leaf,
                > > > > I haven't seen it yet but it's on my list. Are you a Beatles
                > > > > fanatic like me? If you ever ever ever get the chance, go see
                a
                > > > band
                > > > > called the Fab Faux. There's about thirteen people in the
                band
                > > and
                > > > > they do an ALL live Beatle show.I've seen these stupid
                > Beatmania
                > > > > wannabees come and go, but these folks are incredible!!! They
                > > even
                > > > do
                > > > > the backwards part at the end of Strawberry Fields.
                > > > >
                > > > > Mean Mr. Mustard
                > > > >
                > > > > __________________________________________________
                > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                around
                > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                > > > > Back to top
                > > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
                > > > > Messages in this topic (4)
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Recent Activity
                > > > >
                > > > > 1
                > > > > New Members
                > > > >
                > > > > Visit Your Group
                > > > > Yahoo! 360°
                > > > > Start Sharing
                > > > > Your place online
                > > > > Blog & photos
                > > > >
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                > > > > Share recipes,
                > > > > restaurant ratings
                > > > > and favorite meals.
                > > > >
                > > > > Yahoo! Groups
                > > > > Going Green
                > > > > Share your passion
                > > > > for the planet.
                > > > >
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                > > > > Need to Reply?
                > > > > Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific
                > message
                > > > in the Daily Digest.
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              • tygerpurr
                This got lost in an earlier discussion, but I think it is still very relevant. It is about the Grandiose Delusion that leads down a path to despair. Keep
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  This got lost in an earlier discussion, but I think it is still very
                  relevant. It is about the Grandiose Delusion that leads down a path to
                  despair. Keep blowing up the balloon and eventually it just bursts
                  with a loud bang that should wake them up. Unfortunately, many don't
                  wake up in eckankult, they stay in a state of trance or a diluted
                  existence, hoping some day for the promised delusion that will prove
                  to everyone else that Klemp is in fact a godman and they are on a path
                  of Higher Initiation into Candy Land. Grandiosity is a path to despair.

                  This is from an earlier post, and I think it makes sense. Life is
                  already miraculous enough and also hard too. Try losing a little
                  weight, and the laws of nature will let you know just how much power
                  you have and don't have. I have not met one person who used the so
                  "spiritual" method of "THinking Thin", who succeeded. These New Age
                  methods don't work when it comes to practical matters. I can dream
                  myself thin through Lucid Dreaming, but I still wake up with the same
                  belly fat that everyone is struggling with. Give me a break.

                  I am not a Saint nor do I claim to be God or
                  Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for these eckist and
                  execkists to think they are or ever will be. IMHO this is a huge
                  inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument of sorts is just the
                  right medicine. Opposition when in a state of extreme delusion may at
                  times be best. Always being nice may not be the best approach.

                  To truly escape ECKANKAR, give up the God Realization Delusion, IMHO.

                  Tygerpurr ; )
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