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Re: [eckankartruth] Digest Number 1597

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  • Sharon
    When I first went to a.r.e years ago, I too thought that detractors were there speaking out because inside, they were still eckists, still wanted that
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 26, 2007
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      When I first went to a.r.e years ago, I too thought that "detractors" were there speaking out because inside, they were still eckists, still wanted that "connection", and all that other b.s. that Twitchell wrote - that if someone spoke out against his cult, they were actually *for* it.
       
      I'm sure the vast majority of ex-members will testify that this is very far from the truth.
       
      Twitchell studied cult mind-control tactics before setting up his own little cash-cow, and incorporated b.s. like this into the "teachings" because he knew that inevitably some people would wise up.  He was just doing advance damage control.
       
      It's absolute bullshit that if you "hate" something it means you really "love" it.  Think about it.  Does anyone else here do a happy-dance if you're out in the yard barefoot and accidentally step in doggy doo-doo?   If you're *not* happy about it, according to the cult's "teachings" you actually *like* stepping in doggy doo-doo, and perhaps to get over the problem you oughtta go collecting doggy-doo-doo and pile it up in your yard deliberately and step in it until you learn to love it.
       
      Puh-leeze!!!!!
       
      I have tolerance and compassion when it's appropriate.  Now, if I'm out in the yard having a weenie roast, I don't get all bent out of shape about mosquitoes.  I just swat 'em.  I could care less that they need my blood to breed. 
       
      I could give a rat's ass about traumatic past lives that resulted in people being child molesters, serial killers, nazis, or whatever in this incarnation.   I do not believe in that new-age stuff about unconditional divine love.  My love and respect has to be *earned*. 
       
      Actually, I start out neutral....but that can change.
       
      "Summer" isn't the only one who thinks I spend a lot of time with eckancrap.  Truth is, I spend more time playing FreeCell than doing anything else when I'm at the computer.  And when I'm not at the computer, I rarely think about it.  I'm not the least bit interested in any of this stuff anymore, including but not limited to all that "light & sound" stuff.  It's old.  Been there, done that.
       
      I'm sorry if "Summer", like many people, is "unbalanced".  It's not my problem. 
       
      This is NOT a pro-cult group, and anyone who joins should know that. 
       
      If I signed up over at "hu-chat" and started posting those embarrassing eckquotes and yelling "plagiarism", I wouldn't expect to get a lot of cyber-hugs. 
       
      Anyway, I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving!! 
       
      Hugs,
       
      Sharon
       
       
       
       
       
       

      eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      Messages In This Digest (1 Message)

      Message

      1a.

      Re: Sharon will hate this i suppose

      Posted by: "tomleafeater" tianyue@...   tomleafeater

      Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:22 pm (PST)

      --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, "ctecvie" <ctecvie@... > wrote:
      >
      > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > --- In eckankartruth@ yahoogroups. com, "ctecvie" <ctecvie@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Sharon,
      > > >
      > > > I know Summer from a German ex-eckist group. She has been out
      of
      > > > eckankar for a long time but is somehow unstable. Summer,
      > remember
      > > > eck-ist-eck? You did the same thing to us than you did to
      Sharon
      > > > here ...
      > > >
      > > > Other than that, agree with what you wrote here, Sharon! :-)
      > > >
      > > > Ingrid
      > >
      > >
      > > I remember Summer from some posts a long time ago. I know she's
      > > struggling and probably hurting inside. My heart goes out to her.
      >
      > ***Yeah - and eckankar didn't help in the least! I understand that
      > she is hurting inside and that she most probably can't help
      herself,
      > but it's not very nice to attack. Change is not easy, I know, but
      > it's difficult to find friends with such an attitude.
      > >
      > > There's a lot she could do to to find help in some way.
      Alternative
      > > therapies such as high dose omega 3 from fish oil (a natural
      > > treatment for various psychological disorders) are available, as
      > well
      > > as acupuncture and other approaches.
      > >
      > > Summer, find someone who you resonate with to give you a hand, if
      > you
      > > haven't already. There's no need to suffer in silence. There are
      > some
      > > good people in the world who will want to help.
      >
      > ***Depends on if Summer will let them help her ...
      > Ingrid

      I understand what you mean, Ingrid. I guess, as a health care
      professional, I'm become accustomed over the years to viewing people
      from a perspective of health and healing. Many people come into my
      clinic in irritable and foul moods, which often only reflects the
      pain and discomfort they're feeling. This isn't an excuse, but merely
      a fact.

      In the beginning, I found myself taking offense, but it wasn't long
      before I realized they were only expressing the state of health they
      were in. As such depressed and irritable people improved, their moods
      improved as well. So I learned to not take it so personal, although,
      of course, there are limits to what anyone can take from another in
      terms of bad treatment.

      The best approach, I think, is tolerance and diplomacy with people
      who are upset and angry. I wish I could say I've a perfect record in
      this regard in my personal life, but tolerance and diplomacy is my
      preferred approach. Lisa, my companion, would probably have another
      view if she read this!

      Imagine if all governments (as well as each individual), were
      tolerant and understanding of all others. Rather than resort to
      escalation as a first response, imagine the effect of diplomacy.
      Americans are learning a hard lesson about what happens when
      diplomacy is discarded in favor of aggression. It can really backfire
      into a horrible, inextricable mess.

      So, I thought I'd say something kind to Summer in my previous post. I
      hope it was taken as only that--something kind. Kindness isn't always
      perfect, and people can misunderstand the intent, but it is worth
      being companionate and kind, if at all possible. That's what I think,
      anyway.

      I don't know anything about Summer, other than the cryptic messages
      she's left here. I don't know enough about her to know how to
      respond. I don't like to judge people until I have a better
      perception of what they're all about. So I tend to hold back until I
      learn more. One thing I've learned in my life is how wrong people
      often are about others' motives and intentions. I stay away from
      public hangings unless I'm really sure it's the right thing to do.

      Leaf-in-the- Summer, feelin' the warmth on a sunny day.

      ('Cept its actually getting really cold where I live, and Summer is a
      long way off. Maybe not as far as Germany, but far off, none-the-
      less!)

      PS: One of my favorite movies is "The Ox-bow Incident." Its an old
      black and white classic about mobs and hangings and "shoot-first, ask
      questions later" mentality. I also like the old "To Kill a
      Mockingbird" –one of my true favorites.

      Ads on Yahoo!
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      searching for you.
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      Need to Reply?
      Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest.



      ******************************************************************
      Don't be deceived by a seemingly innocent program on "Spiritual Dreams" or "Past Lives" at your local library or community center! It's one of many ways Eckankar and other cults recruit new members. Learn the truth before you sign over your mind, heart, soul, and life insurance!! See a short intro video at: http://youtube.com/watch?v=QJqkK_JDnzc and check out the links at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth
      *******************************************************************
    • tomleafeater
      ... that detractors were there speaking out because inside, they were still eckists, still wanted that connection , and all that other b.s. that Twitchell
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 26, 2007
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        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Sharon <brighttigress@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > When I first went to a.r.e years ago, I too thought
        that "detractors" were there speaking out because inside, they were
        still eckists, still wanted that "connection", and all that other
        b.s. that Twitchell wrote - that if someone spoke out against his
        cult, they were actually *for* it.
        >
        > I'm sure the vast majority of ex-members will testify that this
        is very far from the truth.
        >
        > Twitchell studied cult mind-control tactics before setting up his
        own little cash-cow, and incorporated b.s. like this into
        the "teachings" because he knew that inevitably some people would
        wise up. He was just doing advance damage control.
        >
        > It's absolute bullshit that if you "hate" something it means you
        really "love" it. Think about it. Does anyone else here do a happy-
        dance if you're out in the yard barefoot and accidentally step in
        doggy doo-doo? If you're *not* happy about it, according to the
        cult's "teachings" you actually *like* stepping in doggy doo-doo, and
        perhaps to get over the problem you oughtta go collecting doggy-doo-
        doo and pile it up in your yard deliberately and step in it until you
        learn to love it.
        >
        > Puh-leeze!!!!!
        >
        > I have tolerance and compassion when it's appropriate. Now, if
        I'm out in the yard having a weenie roast, I don't get all bent out
        of shape about mosquitoes. I just swat 'em. I could care less that
        they need my blood to breed.
        >
        > I could give a rat's ass about traumatic past lives that resulted
        in people being child molesters, serial killers, nazis, or whatever
        in this incarnation. I do not believe in that new-age stuff about
        unconditional divine love. My love and respect has to be *earned*.
        >
        > Actually, I start out neutral....but that can change.
        >
        > "Summer" isn't the only one who thinks I spend a lot of time with
        eckancrap. Truth is, I spend more time playing FreeCell than doing
        anything else when I'm at the computer. And when I'm not at the
        computer, I rarely think about it. I'm not the least bit interested
        in any of this stuff anymore, including but not limited to all
        that "light & sound" stuff. It's old. Been there, done that.
        >
        > I'm sorry if "Summer", like many people, is "unbalanced". It's
        not my problem.
        >
        > This is NOT a pro-cult group, and anyone who joins should know
        that.
        >
        > If I signed up over at "hu-chat" and started posting those
        embarrassing eckquotes and yelling "plagiarism", I wouldn't expect to
        get a lot of cyber-hugs.
        >
        > Anyway, I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving!!
        >
        > Hugs,
        >
        > Sharon



        Apparently, this post of Sharon's is in reply to my previous post,
        gauging from the content. So, I suppose I should answer some of the
        comments.

        By the tone, Sharon, you seem to have misunderstood my comments about
        Summer. I've not disagreed with your response (or anyone else's) to
        Summer. If someone posts an accusation or negative slur as a putdown
        to former eckists, the former eckists have a right to respond.

        Summer has posted some odd, nonsensical stuff lately. She also made
        some strange comments about Colleen and some others, as well.

        Maybe you thought I was defending those comments. If so, you're
        mistaken.

        I don't usually think in such purely black and white terms, such as
        guilty and innocent, bad and good. People are usually more complex
        than that. You, Sharon, are more complex than that. I'm more complex
        than that. But I suppose I would have had a similar response as yours
        to Summer, if she'd directed her posts at me.

        But Summer seems a little mixed up, in my view. I'm not sure she's
        defending eckankar, although she may be. She seems confused and
        troubled. She might really be having a hard time. So I decided to
        extend some understanding.

        But I don't defend her strange accusations. The fact is, her comments
        make little sense. If they made sense, maybe we should take them
        more seriously. But her posts really aren't very coherent. She's
        tilting at windmills. That's why I think there is something else
        that's underlying her messages.

        I see no reason why you can't respond to her in the way that suits
        you, Sharon. I support the right you have to set the record straight,
        when people come here posting nonsense. As I see it, my own response
        to Summer or about Summer isn't in conflict with yours, its just
        addressing a different facet of the situation. If you thought I had
        some big disagreement with how you and others have responded--well,
        I'm don't. I'm just adding my own view to the mix.

        My only difference with what others have said is that I think Summer
        is suffering and going through a hard time, and its my nature to feel
        some compassion. If you don't feel that way, that is your right.
        Don't expect me to lack compassion because you, in this case, do lack
        it.

        I don't expect you or anyone else here to feel the same way as I do,
        but if people want to take me on or find fault in me for having
        compassion for others, all I can say is bring on the debate--I'm more
        than up for it. But I don't buy into the notion that you're a person
        lacking in compassion. You choose when you'll show it, just as I do.
        We just don't agree on each case that's before us. And who knows,
        tomorrow our responses to people posting here might be reversed. I
        take things as they come.

        Jeez, no wonder I NEVER felt like I belonged in eckankar! I'm not big
        on marching in lockstep with a crowd. Never really was, though I did
        try. The crowd can do what it wants, I'm not going to follow unless I
        truly am in accord. Ph***k the crowd mentality. One of things I've
        learned since leaving eckankar is how different I am--how different I
        always was--from the other members. In stating this, I include former
        members, as well.

        Lately I've been enjoying the freedom to part company with the
        instinctual need to agree with groups. And I'm also finding groups
        that I have more in common with, finally, at long last.


        Leaf











        >
        >
        > eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        > EckankarTruth
        > Messages In This Digest (1 Message)
        > 1a.
        > Re: Sharon will hate this i suppose From: tomleafeater
        > View All Topics | Create New Topic
        > Message
        > 1a.
        > Re: Sharon will hate this i suppose Posted
        by: "tomleafeater" tianyue@... tomleafeater Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:22
        pm (PST) --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie" <ctecvie@>
        wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie" <ctecvie@>
        wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Sharon,
        > > > >
        > > > > I know Summer from a German ex-eckist group. She has been out
        > of
        > > > > eckankar for a long time but is somehow unstable. Summer,
        > > remember
        > > > > eck-ist-eck? You did the same thing to us than you did to
        > Sharon
        > > > > here ...
        > > > >
        > > > > Other than that, agree with what you wrote here, Sharon! :-)
        > > > >
        > > > > Ingrid
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I remember Summer from some posts a long time ago. I know she's
        > > > struggling and probably hurting inside. My heart goes out to
        her.
        > >
        > > ***Yeah - and eckankar didn't help in the least! I understand
        that
        > > she is hurting inside and that she most probably can't help
        > herself,
        > > but it's not very nice to attack. Change is not easy, I know, but
        > > it's difficult to find friends with such an attitude.
        > > >
        > > > There's a lot she could do to to find help in some way.
        > Alternative
        > > > therapies such as high dose omega 3 from fish oil (a natural
        > > > treatment for various psychological disorders) are available,
        as
        > > well
        > > > as acupuncture and other approaches.
        > > >
        > > > Summer, find someone who you resonate with to give you a hand,
        if
        > > you
        > > > haven't already. There's no need to suffer in silence. There
        are
        > > some
        > > > good people in the world who will want to help.
        > >
        > > ***Depends on if Summer will let them help her ...
        > > Ingrid
        >
        > I understand what you mean, Ingrid. I guess, as a health care
        > professional, I'm become accustomed over the years to viewing
        people
        > from a perspective of health and healing. Many people come into my
        > clinic in irritable and foul moods, which often only reflects the
        > pain and discomfort they're feeling. This isn't an excuse, but
        merely
        > a fact.
        >
        > In the beginning, I found myself taking offense, but it wasn't long
        > before I realized they were only expressing the state of health
        they
        > were in. As such depressed and irritable people improved, their
        moods
        > improved as well. So I learned to not take it so personal,
        although,
        > of course, there are limits to what anyone can take from another in
        > terms of bad treatment.
        >
        > The best approach, I think, is tolerance and diplomacy with people
        > who are upset and angry. I wish I could say I've a perfect record
        in
        > this regard in my personal life, but tolerance and diplomacy is my
        > preferred approach. Lisa, my companion, would probably have another
        > view if she read this!
        >
        > Imagine if all governments (as well as each individual), were
        > tolerant and understanding of all others. Rather than resort to
        > escalation as a first response, imagine the effect of diplomacy.
        > Americans are learning a hard lesson about what happens when
        > diplomacy is discarded in favor of aggression. It can really
        backfire
        > into a horrible, inextricable mess.
        >
        > So, I thought I'd say something kind to Summer in my previous post.
        I
        > hope it was taken as only that--something kind. Kindness isn't
        always
        > perfect, and people can misunderstand the intent, but it is worth
        > being companionate and kind, if at all possible. That's what I
        think,
        > anyway.
        >
        > I don't know anything about Summer, other than the cryptic messages
        > she's left here. I don't know enough about her to know how to
        > respond. I don't like to judge people until I have a better
        > perception of what they're all about. So I tend to hold back until
        I
        > learn more. One thing I've learned in my life is how wrong people
        > often are about others' motives and intentions. I stay away from
        > public hangings unless I'm really sure it's the right thing to do.
        >
        > Leaf-in-the-Summer, feelin' the warmth on a sunny day.
        >
        > ('Cept its actually getting really cold where I live, and Summer is
        a
        > long way off. Maybe not as far as Germany, but far off, none-the-
        > less!)
        >
        > PS: One of my favorite movies is "The Ox-bow Incident." Its an old
        > black and white classic about mobs and hangings and "shoot-first,
        ask
        > questions later" mentality. I also like the old "To Kill a
        > Mockingbird" –one of my true favorites.
        >
        >
        > Back to top
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        > ******************************************************************
        > Don't be deceived by a seemingly innocent program on "Spiritual
        Dreams" or "Past Lives" at your local library or community center!
        It's one of many ways Eckankar and other cults recruit new members.
        Learn the truth before you sign over your mind, heart, soul, and life
        insurance!! See a short intro video at: http://youtube.com/watch?
        v=QJqkK_JDnzc and check out the links at
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth
        > *******************************************************************
        >
      • colleen
        Leaf, Sharon, and All, I just wanted to say that different approaches and perspectives are demonstrated here which is refreshing. Hey, we ve learned something
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 26, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Leaf, Sharon, and All,

          I just wanted to say that different approaches and
          perspectives are demonstrated here which is
          refreshing. Hey, we've learned something from our
          repressive days in Eckankar!!!

          Sharon, I'm glad your are enjoying your home life and
          Leaf, I'm glad you're finding groups in which you feel
          comfortable. It took me years before I did, after
          stopping my membership payments.

          Best,
          Colleen


          - tomleafeater <tianyue@...> wrote:

          > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Sharon
          > <brighttigress@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > When I first went to a.r.e years ago, I too
          > thought
          > that "detractors" were there speaking out because
          > inside, they were
          > still eckists, still wanted that "connection", and
          > all that other
          > b.s. that Twitchell wrote - that if someone spoke
          > out against his
          > cult, they were actually *for* it.
          > >
          > > I'm sure the vast majority of ex-members will
          > testify that this
          > is very far from the truth.
          > >
          > > Twitchell studied cult mind-control tactics
          > before setting up his
          > own little cash-cow, and incorporated b.s. like this
          > into
          > the "teachings" because he knew that inevitably some
          > people would
          > wise up. He was just doing advance damage control.
          > >
          > > It's absolute bullshit that if you "hate"
          > something it means you
          > really "love" it. Think about it. Does anyone else
          > here do a happy-
          > dance if you're out in the yard barefoot and
          > accidentally step in
          > doggy doo-doo? If you're *not* happy about it,
          > according to the
          > cult's "teachings" you actually *like* stepping in
          > doggy doo-doo, and
          > perhaps to get over the problem you oughtta go
          > collecting doggy-doo-
          > doo and pile it up in your yard deliberately and
          > step in it until you
          > learn to love it.
          > >
          > > Puh-leeze!!!!!
          > >
          > > I have tolerance and compassion when it's
          > appropriate. Now, if
          > I'm out in the yard having a weenie roast, I don't
          > get all bent out
          > of shape about mosquitoes. I just swat 'em. I
          > could care less that
          > they need my blood to breed.
          > >
          > > I could give a rat's ass about traumatic past
          > lives that resulted
          > in people being child molesters, serial killers,
          > nazis, or whatever
          > in this incarnation. I do not believe in that
          > new-age stuff about
          > unconditional divine love. My love and respect has
          > to be *earned*.
          > >
          > > Actually, I start out neutral....but that can
          > change.
          > >
          > > "Summer" isn't the only one who thinks I spend a
          > lot of time with
          > eckancrap. Truth is, I spend more time playing
          > FreeCell than doing
          > anything else when I'm at the computer. And when
          > I'm not at the
          > computer, I rarely think about it. I'm not the
          > least bit interested
          > in any of this stuff anymore, including but not
          > limited to all
          > that "light & sound" stuff. It's old. Been there,
          > done that.
          > >
          > > I'm sorry if "Summer", like many people, is
          > "unbalanced". It's
          > not my problem.
          > >
          > > This is NOT a pro-cult group, and anyone who
          > joins should know
          > that.
          > >
          > > If I signed up over at "hu-chat" and started
          > posting those
          > embarrassing eckquotes and yelling "plagiarism", I
          > wouldn't expect to
          > get a lot of cyber-hugs.
          > >
          > > Anyway, I hope everyone had a nice
          > Thanksgiving!!
          > >
          > > Hugs,
          > >
          > > Sharon
          >
          >
          >
          > Apparently, this post of Sharon's is in reply to my
          > previous post,
          > gauging from the content. So, I suppose I should
          > answer some of the
          > comments.
          >
          > By the tone, Sharon, you seem to have misunderstood
          > my comments about
          > Summer. I've not disagreed with your response (or
          > anyone else's) to
          > Summer. If someone posts an accusation or negative
          > slur as a putdown
          > to former eckists, the former eckists have a right
          > to respond.
          >
          > Summer has posted some odd, nonsensical stuff
          > lately. She also made
          > some strange comments about Colleen and some others,
          > as well.
          >
          > Maybe you thought I was defending those comments. If
          > so, you're
          > mistaken.
          >
          > I don't usually think in such purely black and white
          > terms, such as
          > guilty and innocent, bad and good. People are
          > usually more complex
          > than that. You, Sharon, are more complex than that.
          > I'm more complex
          > than that. But I suppose I would have had a similar
          > response as yours
          > to Summer, if she'd directed her posts at me.
          >
          > But Summer seems a little mixed up, in my view. I'm
          > not sure she's
          > defending eckankar, although she may be. She seems
          > confused and
          > troubled. She might really be having a hard time. So
          > I decided to
          > extend some understanding.
          >
          > But I don't defend her strange accusations. The fact
          > is, her comments
          > make little sense. If they made sense, maybe we
          > should take them
          > more seriously. But her posts really aren't very
          > coherent. She's
          > tilting at windmills. That's why I think there is
          > something else
          > that's underlying her messages.
          >
          > I see no reason why you can't respond to her in the
          > way that suits
          > you, Sharon. I support the right you have to set the
          > record straight,
          > when people come here posting nonsense. As I see it,
          > my own response
          > to Summer or about Summer isn't in conflict with
          > yours, its just
          > addressing a different facet of the situation. If
          > you thought I had
          > some big disagreement with how you and others have
          > responded--well,
          > I'm don't. I'm just adding my own view to the mix.
          >
          > My only difference with what others have said is
          > that I think Summer
          > is suffering and going through a hard time, and its
          > my nature to feel
          > some compassion. If you don't feel that way, that is
          > your right.
          > Don't expect me to lack compassion because you, in
          > this case, do lack
          > it.
          >
          > I don't expect you or anyone else here to feel the
          > same way as I do,
          > but if people want to take me on or find fault in me
          > for having
          > compassion for others, all I can say is bring on the
          > debate--I'm more
          > than up for it. But I don't buy into the notion that
          > you're a person
          > lacking in compassion. You choose when you'll show
          > it, just as I do.
          > We just don't agree on each case that's before us.
          > And who knows,
          > tomorrow our responses to people posting here might
          > be reversed. I
          > take things as they come.
          >
          > Jeez, no wonder I NEVER felt like I belonged in
          > eckankar! I'm not big
          > on marching in lockstep with a crowd. Never really
          > was, though I did
          > try. The crowd can do what it wants, I'm not going
          > to follow unless I
          > truly am in accord. Ph***k the crowd mentality. One
          > of things I've
          > learned since leaving eckankar is how different I
          > am--how
          === message truncated ===


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        • city.summer
          Hello Sharon, I feel sorry should my post have hurt you. Please be aware that I wrote it in this way ALSO because you have hit me with your hard and sharp and
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 5, 2007
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            Hello Sharon,
            I feel sorry should my post have hurt you.
            Please be aware that I wrote it in this way ALSO because you have hit
            me with your hard and sharp and hatefull words some years ago. And I
            thought you can take it easily if one is a little direct towards you
            too. You have pissed me off a couple of times. And never apologized.
            So I have "one good" because I have apologized!!!! Or not?

            You do a great job leading and offering this group that is not the
            point. I thank you for it!! It was great to get back in contact with
            those old ex-eckists I know from about 6~ years ago.
            And some do remember me, like Leaf and I think you too know who I am
            (??)

            Yes Sharon you were offending me in those years once in a while but I
            always had some affection for you in spite of that. But whatever.....
            Ì am just making a simple point ..... you know so much about Eckankar
            still, far more then me, so the simple assumption was that YOU are
            still more connected with the cult than me. Is that not a valid
            assumption. I have really left Eckankar and about 3 years ago I
            thought I have to face that group again to get over some more rubbish
            and applied for membership to see how that goes. Simple. Nothing to
            be afraid of. You know perfectly well that I was with Osho in the
            meantime and just another Guru who is seen as the greatest by his
            followers. By the way, nowadays it pisses me off that Oshos followers
            are similarly egoistical about their path as eckists.

            I would really appreciate your appreciation Sharon.
            You have insulted me for several reasons in those days, now ...
            how about it.... why not try to be a little accepting...?
            I hope you are doing well.
            I am doing pretty well Sharon and that one year membership has not
            done any harm. But it may of course not be neccessary for an ex-
            Ecksit to try such a thing. Absolutely not.
            But why Eckankar is the way it is - why other religions are the way
            they are and why followers are the way they are. I still do not
            understand. Theoretically I can understand it somehow but practically
            I do not. But I will live with this question mark. And that is okay.

            I love you all here in this group even if you think I am - a -what is
            the word, some I forgot - some idiot.

            I am not that unblanced and glad to learn Sharon that you don`t care
            anyway and that that is not your business.

            I hope you are doing well in your businesses.

            I really did not want to offend and hurt you and someone wrote that
            we make assumptions about people here in the internet that may be
            wrong. I think I made an assumption about you Sharon that was wrong.
            That is why i apologize.
            The only appropriate thing is that to express gratitute that you
            offer this group to the public. It is great!!!
            Thank you Sharon.
            Love
            "Summer"

            PS: why can i just feel it in my veins that you Sharon will give me
            a "piss off" answer?


            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Sharon <brighttigress@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > When I first went to a.r.e years ago, I too thought
            that "detractors" were there speaking out because inside, they were
            still eckists, still wanted that "connection", and all that other
            b.s. that Twitchell wrote - that if someone spoke out against his
            cult, they were actually *for* it.
            >
            > I'm sure the vast majority of ex-members will testify that this
            is very far from the truth.
            >
            > Twitchell studied cult mind-control tactics before setting up his
            own little cash-cow, and incorporated b.s. like this into
            the "teachings" because he knew that inevitably some people would
            wise up. He was just doing advance damage control.
            >
            > It's absolute bullshit that if you "hate" something it means you
            really "love" it. Think about it. Does anyone else here do a happy-
            dance if you're out in the yard barefoot and accidentally step in
            doggy doo-doo? If you're *not* happy about it, according to the
            cult's "teachings" you actually *like* stepping in doggy doo-doo, and
            perhaps to get over the problem you oughtta go collecting doggy-doo-
            doo and pile it up in your yard deliberately and step in it until you
            learn to love it.
            >
            > Puh-leeze!!!!!
            >
            > I have tolerance and compassion when it's appropriate. Now, if
            I'm out in the yard having a weenie roast, I don't get all bent out
            of shape about mosquitoes. I just swat 'em. I could care less that
            they need my blood to breed.
            >
            > I could give a rat's ass about traumatic past lives that resulted
            in people being child molesters, serial killers, nazis, or whatever
            in this incarnation. I do not believe in that new-age stuff about
            unconditional divine love. My love and respect has to be *earned*.
            >
            > Actually, I start out neutral....but that can change.
            >
            > "Summer" isn't the only one who thinks I spend a lot of time with
            eckancrap. Truth is, I spend more time playing FreeCell than doing
            anything else when I'm at the computer. And when I'm not at the
            computer, I rarely think about it. I'm not the least bit interested
            in any of this stuff anymore, including but not limited to all
            that "light & sound" stuff. It's old. Been there, done that.
            >
            > I'm sorry if "Summer", like many people, is "unbalanced". It's
            not my problem.
            >
            > This is NOT a pro-cult group, and anyone who joins should know
            that.
            >
            > If I signed up over at "hu-chat" and started posting those
            embarrassing eckquotes and yelling "plagiarism", I wouldn't expect to
            get a lot of cyber-hugs.
            >
            > Anyway, I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving!!
            >
            > Hugs,
            >
            > Sharon
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            > EckankarTruth
            > Messages In This Digest (1 Message)
            > 1a.
            > Re: Sharon will hate this i suppose From: tomleafeater
            > View All Topics | Create New Topic
            > Message
            > 1a.
            > Re: Sharon will hate this i suppose Posted
            by: "tomleafeater" tianyue@... tomleafeater Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:22
            pm (PST) --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie" <ctecvie@>
            wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie" <ctecvie@>
            wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Sharon,
            > > > >
            > > > > I know Summer from a German ex-eckist group. She has been out
            > of
            > > > > eckankar for a long time but is somehow unstable. Summer,
            > > remember
            > > > > eck-ist-eck? You did the same thing to us than you did to
            > Sharon
            > > > > here ...
            > > > >
            > > > > Other than that, agree with what you wrote here, Sharon! :-)
            > > > >
            > > > > Ingrid
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I remember Summer from some posts a long time ago. I know she's
            > > > struggling and probably hurting inside. My heart goes out to
            her.
            > >
            > > ***Yeah - and eckankar didn't help in the least! I understand
            that
            > > she is hurting inside and that she most probably can't help
            > herself,
            > > but it's not very nice to attack. Change is not easy, I know, but
            > > it's difficult to find friends with such an attitude.
            > > >
            > > > There's a lot she could do to to find help in some way.
            > Alternative
            > > > therapies such as high dose omega 3 from fish oil (a natural
            > > > treatment for various psychological disorders) are available,
            as
            > > well
            > > > as acupuncture and other approaches.
            > > >
            > > > Summer, find someone who you resonate with to give you a hand,
            if
            > > you
            > > > haven't already. There's no need to suffer in silence. There
            are
            > > some
            > > > good people in the world who will want to help.
            > >
            > > ***Depends on if Summer will let them help her ...
            > > Ingrid
            >
            > I understand what you mean, Ingrid. I guess, as a health care
            > professional, I'm become accustomed over the years to viewing
            people
            > from a perspective of health and healing. Many people come into my
            > clinic in irritable and foul moods, which often only reflects the
            > pain and discomfort they're feeling. This isn't an excuse, but
            merely
            > a fact.
            >
            > In the beginning, I found myself taking offense, but it wasn't long
            > before I realized they were only expressing the state of health
            they
            > were in. As such depressed and irritable people improved, their
            moods
            > improved as well. So I learned to not take it so personal,
            although,
            > of course, there are limits to what anyone can take from another in
            > terms of bad treatment.
            >
            > The best approach, I think, is tolerance and diplomacy with people
            > who are upset and angry. I wish I could say I've a perfect record
            in
            > this regard in my personal life, but tolerance and diplomacy is my
            > preferred approach. Lisa, my companion, would probably have another
            > view if she read this!
            >
            > Imagine if all governments (as well as each individual), were
            > tolerant and understanding of all others. Rather than resort to
            > escalation as a first response, imagine the effect of diplomacy.
            > Americans are learning a hard lesson about what happens when
            > diplomacy is discarded in favor of aggression. It can really
            backfire
            > into a horrible, inextricable mess.
            >
            > So, I thought I'd say something kind to Summer in my previous post.
            I
            > hope it was taken as only that--something kind. Kindness isn't
            always
            > perfect, and people can misunderstand the intent, but it is worth
            > being companionate and kind, if at all possible. That's what I
            think,
            > anyway.
            >
            > I don't know anything about Summer, other than the cryptic messages
            > she's left here. I don't know enough about her to know how to
            > respond. I don't like to judge people until I have a better
            > perception of what they're all about. So I tend to hold back until
            I
            > learn more. One thing I've learned in my life is how wrong people
            > often are about others' motives and intentions. I stay away from
            > public hangings unless I'm really sure it's the right thing to do.
            >
            > Leaf-in-the-Summer, feelin' the warmth on a sunny day.
            >
            > ('Cept its actually getting really cold where I live, and Summer is
            a
            > long way off. Maybe not as far as Germany, but far off, none-the-
            > less!)
            >
            > PS: One of my favorite movies is "The Ox-bow Incident." Its an old
            > black and white classic about mobs and hangings and "shoot-first,
            ask
            > questions later" mentality. I also like the old "To Kill a
            > Mockingbird" –one of my true favorites.
            >
            >
            > Back to top
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            > Don't be deceived by a seemingly innocent program on "Spiritual
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            > *******************************************************************
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          • whitefeatherliz
            Hi Sharon and all, Hmmm, well after waiting a few months to get my yahoo id whitefeatherliz reinstated, thought I would stop in, say hello, wish everyone Happy
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 5, 2007
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              Hi Sharon and all,

              Hmmm, well after waiting a few months to get my yahoo id
              whitefeatherliz reinstated, thought I would stop in, say hello, wish
              everyone Happy Holidays, and just add my -2 cents worth! ;-)

              I've been out of the org now for a Little over 4 yrs. I had been a
              member of Eck for 30 plus years, held numerous positions etc... Also
              diagnosed with Fybromyalgia in Oct 2006. BEST illness to ever happen
              to my life! LOL One of the biggest issues with this illness for me is
              the fibro fog.... At first I was very upset about the fact that my
              short term memory sucked! Now I reflect on this as "GARBAGE IN,
              GARBAGE OUT"! And with that, most of my eckankrap memory has been
              drained from my brain as well.... oh not the WHOM thingy though ;-)
              Sorry Grace, if you were as open as you claim to be, you would have
              noticed I was using WHOM in all the wrong places just to yank your
              chains Miss English major, from Canada! :-)

              Anyway, many eckists and ex eckists LACK, compassion and understanding
              of others. A true narcissist will not apologize for any of their part
              in this ex or eckankrap mess! Sure summer.city
              was rude, but Leaf created the mess by stepping in as he did and
              having a go at other posters with the excuse that he was taking up for
              a poor loss soul (summer.city). Leaf is about the worst person on any
              of the BBs as he is no friend to anyone but himself. He uses people---
              Colleen for one--- who is really way too tolerate and kind to him,
              and when "they" take his side (when Leaf is so wrong), they are simply
              enabling him and encouraging him to continue to abuse others, like
              Tygerpurr and members of another ex eck chat group.

              People do align themselves with anyone who supports their belief. There
              are a lot of people that I have met in my life that are not independent
              thinkers and prefer to take the safe view. It's a good thing there are
              independent thinkers on these forums that will sit down and look at the
              whole issue objectively and know, in reality, that not every Eckists or
              Ex-Eckists is faithful, honest and trustworthy. I guess having some
              street sense can be a lot more beneficial than book learning. Those who
              have street sense seem to recognize things for what they really are and
              those who tend to read and learn only believe what they read.

              From Cocaine to Rogaine!!!! LOL

              Anyway, Sharon you mentioned awhile back that you thought you had
              banned me from this group. Actually you put me on moderated status
              because I inappropriately trashed Colleen. Sorry about that!

              Anyway, I'm going to be a grandma this Friday! Sharon I hope you are
              enjoying your grand babies, and have a great holiday everyone!

              Liz
            • tomleafeater
              ... wish ... Also ... happen ... me is ... though ;-) ... understanding ... part ... for ... any ... -- ... simply ... There ... independent ... are ... the
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 5, 2007
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                --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "whitefeatherliz"
                <whitefeatherliz@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Sharon and all,
                >
                > Hmmm, well after waiting a few months to get my yahoo id
                > whitefeatherliz reinstated, thought I would stop in, say hello,
                wish
                > everyone Happy Holidays, and just add my -2 cents worth! ;-)
                >
                > I've been out of the org now for a Little over 4 yrs. I had been a
                > member of Eck for 30 plus years, held numerous positions etc...
                Also
                > diagnosed with Fybromyalgia in Oct 2006. BEST illness to ever
                happen
                > to my life! LOL One of the biggest issues with this illness for
                me is
                > the fibro fog.... At first I was very upset about the fact that my
                > short term memory sucked! Now I reflect on this as "GARBAGE IN,
                > GARBAGE OUT"! And with that, most of my eckankrap memory has been
                > drained from my brain as well.... oh not the WHOM thingy
                though ;-)
                > Sorry Grace, if you were as open as you claim to be, you would have
                > noticed I was using WHOM in all the wrong places just to yank your
                > chains Miss English major, from Canada! :-)
                >
                > Anyway, many eckists and ex eckists LACK, compassion and
                understanding
                > of others. A true narcissist will not apologize for any of their
                part
                > in this ex or eckankrap mess! Sure summer.city
                > was rude, but Leaf created the mess by stepping in as he did and
                > having a go at other posters with the excuse that he was taking up
                for
                > a poor loss soul (summer.city). Leaf is about the worst person on
                any
                > of the BBs as he is no friend to anyone but himself. He uses people-
                --
                > Colleen for one--- who is really way too tolerate and kind to him,
                > and when "they" take his side (when Leaf is so wrong), they are
                simply
                > enabling him and encouraging him to continue to abuse others, like
                > Tygerpurr and members of another ex eck chat group.
                >
                > People do align themselves with anyone who supports their belief.
                There
                > are a lot of people that I have met in my life that are not
                independent
                > thinkers and prefer to take the safe view. It's a good thing there
                are
                > independent thinkers on these forums that will sit down and look at
                the
                > whole issue objectively and know, in reality, that not every
                Eckists or
                > Ex-Eckists is faithful, honest and trustworthy. I guess having some
                > street sense can be a lot more beneficial than book learning. Those
                who
                > have street sense seem to recognize things for what they really are
                and
                > those who tend to read and learn only believe what they read.
                >
                > From Cocaine to Rogaine!!!! LOL
                >
                > Anyway, Sharon you mentioned awhile back that you thought you had
                > banned me from this group. Actually you put me on moderated status
                > because I inappropriately trashed Colleen. Sorry about that!
                >
                > Anyway, I'm going to be a grandma this Friday! Sharon I hope you
                are
                > enjoying your grand babies, and have a great holiday everyone!
                >
                > Liz


                So, you apparently didn't enjoy my little post to Summer? How
                devastating! Where's the nearest bridge for evil narcisists? I need
                to jump! Oh, my, I can't go on! I've done something truly awful and
                unpardonable! I tried to be nice to Summer! I must find repentence!

                Well, when posts like Liz's are acceptable here, and posts like mine
                to Summer are not, I'd say that sort of says it all about the local
                posting standards.
              • whitefeatherliz
                ... HAROLD how did you sneak into ET? I knew you really didn t give up on using computers! Please promise you won t streak through the local MN airport
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 6, 2007
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                  --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Where's the nearest bridge for evil narcissists? I need
                  > to jump!



                  "HAROLD" how did you sneak into ET? I knew you really didn't give up
                  on using computers! Please promise you won't streak through the local
                  MN airport naked! ;-)
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