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Re: Censureship at Eckankar Survivors Anonymous?

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  • tomleafeater
    As to your implication that I m a narcissist, I must ask you where you obtained your degree in psychology or medicine? Even well trained professionals in those
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
      As to your implication that I'm a narcissist, I must ask you where
      you obtained your degree in psychology or medicine?

      Even well trained professionals in those fields have trouble making
      good diagnoses of patients, especially without carefully taking in a
      proper history and the signs and symptoms of a patient. This takes
      years of training and skill.

      People who try to do this over the internet, even with training, are
      taking the risk of making grave errors.

      If making a good diagnosis were as easy as reading some stuff on the
      internet, then anyone could practice psychotherapy or medicine with
      absolutely no training.

      That's why there are laws about practicing medicine without a license.

      Amateur pop psychologists (i.e., people like you) will usually end up
      making complete fools of themselves.

      I remember that there was another fellow posting here that, as I
      recall, you thought was a narcissist. It seems the narcissist label
      is one of your favorite diagnoses of people you disagree with.

      Furthermore, the signs of narcissism you posted, ironically, really
      do sound a lot like YOU. Perhaps that is why *that* particular
      condition seems to continually attract your interest? Just a thought,
      Maestra.

      Again, dear one, when you post here, you are likely to get an answer
      you might not enjoy. Can't ban me here...

      A few other points regarding your post:

      LIZ WROTE(see below for entire context):

      >You wrote: "So, since my usual email address was banned by him,
      Yahoo
      > groups apparently automatically reverted to my alternate email
      > address which is still stored in yahoo groups."
      >
      > Well that could be the case, so maybe you should look into it.

      LIZ ALSO WROTE:

      > If someone is not paying attention to what email addy they are
      > attempting to use, (for what ever reason, maybe confussion or
      > frustration, or ?) well that isn't the moderators fault!

      LEAF REPLIES:

      In the future, please completely read my post before replying to it.
      Its clear you didn't comprehend my post.

      First, regarding your suggestion that I look into what I've said
      occurred with Yahoo groups when Prometheus banned me from ESA:

      You must have missed the part in my post in which I explained that I
      already *DID* look into Yahoo groups. That's how I concluded it was
      Yahoo groups program that automatically reverted back to my alternate
      email address.

      Second, since I didn't change the email address, there was no reason
      for me to have known that it had been changed automatically by Yahoo,
      so therefore I didn't notice the change, my dear.

      The reason the change occurred automatically is because my usual
      email address was banned by Prometheus. Since I didn't know he had
      entirely deleted my membership, there was no reason for me to looking
      for such changes when I posted.


      Leaf


      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth" <ewickings@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > LOL okay Kent, what ever you say.
      >
      > BTW, a person can read from ESA and not be a member, and they still
      > in fact can post a message to the group without having to join!
      >
      > This happens at ESA because that was how Prometheus desided to set
      > the group up. It is "public", and can be read by anyone as I am
      > sure you already knew.
      >
      > People have attempted posting replys to messages there, and even
      > though they are not officially a member, their message obviously
      gets
      > sent to the "pending file" until a moderator desides to allow "it"
      > access to the group.
      >
      > So the info describing how to check a message that I mentioned
      > earlier, can be done as I explained.
      >
      > You wrote: "So, since my usual email address was banned by him,
      Yahoo
      > groups apparently automatically reverted to my alternate email
      > address which is still stored in yahoo groups."
      >
      > Well that could be the case, so maybe you should look into it. Yet,
      > as I said a person does not have to be a member to post at ESA,
      it's
      > up to Prometheus to deside if it gets posted, then the person is
      > usually invited to join.
      >
      > If someone is not paying attention to what email addy they are
      > attempting to use, (for what ever reason, maybe confussion or
      > frustration, or ?) well that isn't the moderators fault!
      >
      > Just thought I would clarify that with those that are bothering to
      > keep up with this rediculous Censorship post. LOL
      >
      > This really is very easy to prove if one is willing to check!
      >
      > Liz
      >
      > PS/ Not sure if Mish posted this URL link here on ET, haven't read
      > the messages here in ages!
      >
      > So sharing this very interesting link:
      >
      >
      > "The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict
      themselves.
      > They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without stopping
      > to take a breath. . . . They will contradict FACTS. They will lie to
      > you about things that you did together. They will misquote you to
      > yourself. If you disagree with them, they'll say you're lying,
      making
      > stuff up, or are crazy."
      >
      > In short, a narcissist can confuse you and it
      > appears that this is exactly what scam artists do.
      >
      > http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Not so fast, Liz. I've checked into my Yahoo groups account,
      which
      > > lists the groups I am a member of on Yahoo. The two other ex-
      > eckankar
      > > groups are still there, but the ESA group has been deleted.
      > >
      > > This, of course, was done by Prometheus when he deleted my
      > > membership. I'd thought moderated status was different than
      > complete
      > > deletion of membership.
      > >
      > > In any case, I have NO membership with ESA to edit, so there are
      > > obviously no membership choices for me to select or deselect.
      > >
      > > So, since my usual email address was banned by him, Yahoo groups
      > > apparently automatically reverted to my alternate email address
      > which
      > > is still stored in yahoo groups. It seems to be a quirk in yahoo
      > > group programming. There is no way for me to change that other
      than
      > > re-establishing membership in ESA (sorry, no thanks), or deleting
      > > from my general yahoo account the alternate address, which I may
      do.
      > >
      > > Prometheus has as much stated the same thing over at ESA. I
      accept
      > > this explanation, and that it was not deliberate on the part of
      > > Prometheus. Of course, Prometheus' act of completely
      > banning/deleting
      > > the email address set these events in motion, but I can see that
      he
      > > could not have known this would happen. When I last I to ESA, I
      did
      > > not notice the automatic reversion back to the other email
      address.
      > >
      > > Fair enough for you, Liz?
      > >
      > > On this forum, I am so far NOT banned. So here, when you make a
      > > statement, you get an answer.
      > >
      > > On your group, you have control of the bully pulpit, so you can
      > make
      > > any statement you want with inpunity.
      > >
      > > No one will answer you if you decide you don't like the answer.
      > >
      > > This is called censureship when you have complete control of what
      > > gets posted, and can decide how you want to manipulate the
      > > discussion.
      > >
      > > So I won't be posting on your group. You've become tyrannical in
      > your
      > > style of managing the group.
      > >
      > > Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
      > >
      > > Leaf
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth" <ewickings@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > FYI, if a person is really all that concerned about whether a
      > > > moderator edited or switched a poster's email or address once
      it
      > > gets
      > > > approved, all one has to do is look at the post in question, to
      > the
      > > > right and below the date it will say: "Show message option".
      If
      > > you
      > > > click the tiny arrow it will expand the area to show: "View
      > > > Source", "Use Fixed Width Font", or "Unwrap Lines". Click
      the
      > > one
      > > > that says "Show message". It will then open up the post at the
      > > left
      > > > of the page, and before the actual message it will show who it
      is
      > > > from, return path, Received.... Etc which for most people is
      hard
      > > to
      > > > read let alone understand if you have no clue what you are
      > looking
      > > > for. Down toward the bottom of all that strange stuff you will
      > see
      > > > From, Subject, X-Yahoo-Group-Post: public or it might say
      > member,
      > > if
      > > > it says public, it means the person sending a post is not a
      > member
      > > of
      > > > the group. The last line will show: X-eGroups-Approved-By:
      > either
      > > > Prometheus or myself over on ESA. It will also show if
      anything
      > > was
      > > > edited, and by which moderator. This pertains to the message
      > > posted
      > > > on ESA Re: Group FYI
      > > >
      > > > If this explaination is too difficult for anyone to understand,
      > > then
      > > > I guess the point is not worth explaining further... This is
      not
      > > too
      > > > difficult to prove to yourselves. It is impossible to remove
      or
      > > > change a person's message without it showing this within
      > the "Show
      > > > Message Option" as I referrenced. Of course one way to
      > accomplish
      > > > doing any editing and posting, would be to forward one of these
      > > > moderated posts from the original message, and post it yourself
      > as
      > > a
      > > > moderator. Which in this case in question, was not how it
      > happened
      > > > on ESA!
      > > >
      > > > Hope everyone has an enjoyable July 4th Holiday week/end.
      > > > Liz
      > > >
      > > > Leaf wrote:
      > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Well, for what its worth...here's another update, and some
      > > > > thoughts for Marla, if she's reading this.
      > > > >
      > > > > I logged into my Yahoo groups account, and I see that with
      all
      > my
      > > > > yahoo groups that I hold memberships with, ESA has been
      > > > > changed to my alternate email address that is stored in my
      > > > > Yahoo file. The other two groups still have my usual email
      > > > > address.
      > > > >
      > > > > Now, I did NOT change this. That is a cold, hard fact. I
      > haven't
      > > > > logged into Yahoo accounts in ages.
      > > > >
      > > > > I figure that when I was placed on moderated status by the
      > > > > moderators at ESA, they somehow switched me to the alternate
      > > > > email address that is on file in my account.
      > > > >
      > > > > This may have been deliberate or not. I can't say.
      > > > >
      > > > > So now, unless this is changed, I am forced to use an email
      > > > > address I'd rather not use, if I ever post there.
      > > > >
      > > > > This is getting stranger by the day.
      > > > >
      > > > > Well, I just have to laugh....not at anyone or with malice,
      > just
      > > > > laugh....
      > > > >
      > > > > I'm okay with all this, at peace with myself.
      > > > >
      > > > > Its been one crazy and wild adventure!
      > > > >
      > > > > I may post a wrap-up of all this, and some final thoughts,
      when
      > I
      > > > > have time. Then I may retreat back into my peronsal life,
      > > > > although I'll probably check back in once in a while.
      > > > >
      > > > > For now, I'd like to say to Marla one thing, if she's reading
      > > here:
      > > > >
      > > > > I left eckankar about ten years ago, after joining when I was
      > > > > about sixteen years old, and have been reading the eckankar
      > > > > sites for quite some time, off and on. I've seen some strange
      > > > > and wacky things come and go that have been posted.
      > > > >
      > > > > There was nothing at all controversial with your posts,
      nothing
      > > > > even slightly unusual or inappropriate compared to what has
      > > > > always been posted over the years on these forums.
      > > > >
      > > > > In fact, your posts, I'd say, were fairly usual and normal.
      > This
      > > is
      > > > > why it is so puzzling that you were singled out for such a
      > tongue
      > > > > lashing. It makes no sense to me, with all that I've seen
      over
      > > the
      > > > > years.
      > > > >
      > > > > I'm sorry (oops, not supposed to say 'sorry' in eckankar, I
      > just
      > > > > can't seem to follow the little rules anymore--hee, hee) you
      > > were
      > > > > put through such an ordeal in your contact with these
      > > > > ex-eckankar groups. You deserved to be respected and to be
      > > > > treated with dignity. That didn't happen. You seem like a
      very
      > > > > good, decent and smart person to me. You've handled it all
      > with
      > > > > poise.
      > > > >
      > > > > You'll be fine, I'm sure.
      > > > >
      > > > > Although I'm not the moderator here, I think its safe to say
      > you
      > > > > should feel free to post at this forum, if you liike. There
      > have
      > > > been
      > > > > a great many decent and good people post here over the years.
      > > > > You're welcome here, although I wouldn't blame you if you
      leave
      > > > > any thought of eckankar behind and never look back.
      > > > >
      > > > > Funny, that's what these forums were supposed to be all about.
      > > > >
      > > > > More later.
      > > > >
      > > > > Leaf
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater"
      > > > > <tianyue@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > There is only one way that my email address that Yahoo
      > > > > groups uses
      > > > > > can be changed: I have to physically log into Yahoo groups
      > with
      > > > > my
      > > > > > password and deliberately elect to change to another email
      > > > > address. I
      > > > > > always post at the Yahoo site, not from my email program.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The name change only took effect on YOUR site, and not here
      > > > > on
      > > > > > Eckankartruth, which is also a Yahoo group. If I'd made a
      > > > > change, the
      > > > > > new address would have shown up here, as well. As anyone
      > > > > can see, it
      > > > > > didn't.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Let's see with this new post how my name shows up. If my
      real
      > > > > name is
      > > > > > displayed, I apologize in advance with all due sincerity.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > If my usual "leafeater/tianyue" addy shows up here but not
      on
      > > > > your
      > > > > > site, then someone at your end changed it, period. Case
      > > > > closed.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Maybe one of your other moderators did it, or maybe you did
      > it
      > > > > by
      > > > > > mistake. If it wasn't deliberate, perhaps someone familiar
      > with
      > > > > yahoo
      > > > > > groups moderation can explain how it could possibly be an
      > > > > error. If
      > > > > > it is an error on your part, I apologize.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Leaf
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      > > > > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Leaf,
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I approved your post as you sent it. I didn't change
      > anything
      > > > > > > to reveal your name. You did it, not me! Seems like I'm
      > > > > damned
      > > > > > > if I do and damned if I don't. I don't know what to do
      for
      > you
      > > > > > > at this point really. I can't appease you in anything I
      try
      > > to
      > > > do.
      > > > > > > Tell you what, just post on the other sites. People will
      > read
      > > it
      > > > > > > there. All this cross posting isn't necessary anyway. But
      > > > > please
      > > > > > > stop blaming ESA for everything that doesn't seem right
      to
      > > > > you.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Prometheus
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater"
      > > > > > > <tianyue@> wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Update on the events at ESA:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I notice a strange new develeopment. They posted my new
      > > > > post (I
      > > > > > > > thjank them for that), but switched to my other email
      > > > > address
      > > > > > which
      > > > > > > > reveals my actual name.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > <snipped for redundancy reasons! by Liz ;-)>
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Elizabeth
      ... license. Amateur pop psychologists (i.e., people like you) will usually end up making complete fools of themselves. *** Actually my major is in Law,
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 4, 2007
        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@...>
        wrote:

        > That's why there are laws about practicing medicine without a
        license. Amateur pop psychologists (i.e., people like you) will
        usually end up making complete fools of themselves.


        *** Actually my major is in Law, graduating in August Finally and
        with a 98.9 gpa! :-)



        > I remember that there was another fellow posting here that, as I
        recall, you thought was a narcissist. It seems the narcissist label
        is one of your favorite diagnoses of people you disagree with.
        Furthermore, the signs of narcissism you posted, ironically, really
        do sound a lot like YOU. Perhaps that is why *that* particular
        condition seems to continually attract your interest? Just a thought,
        Maestra.


        *** Actually Leaf, this is the very first time I have posted anything
        about this subject, that I can recall? If I did it was a couple years
        ago, and honestly I doubt I did post anything on this subject unless
        you are referring to Ford Johnson / Graham, and the whole eckankrap
        BS that came about because of Ford's book?

        You just may have me confused with someone else, since this subject
        has been tossed around lately over on ESA. Though I am contemplating
        a second major in psychology? Never too late to further your
        education right?! ;-)



        > Again, dear one,

        *** Sorry I don't buy into the eckankrap lingo anymore. I'm not a
        student following a sage, Master or Guru. Though my dear husband
        does call me Honey or Dear, and a term of endearment. So, I didn't
        know you cared Leaf? ;-) (JK!)


        > when you post here, you are likely to get an answer
        > you might not enjoy. Can't ban me here...


        *** Sorry Leaf, you were never banned by me. I do enjoy your
        answers, comments, past posts, just don't always agree with you. If I
        felt it necessary I could sit here and communicate in an attempt to
        impress... not my style, I would rather be real, than superior.
        Probably one reason why I could not remain an HI after 30 years of
        ego ladened personalities within the HI circle, nor could I go along
        with the lies about initiations, fake masters, history etc! You know
        what I mean...



        > A few other points regarding your post:
        LIZ WROTE(see below for entire context):
        You wrote: "So, since my usual email address was banned by him,
        Yahoo groups apparently automatically reverted to my alternate email
        address which is still stored in yahoo groups."


        *** Actually you wrote that.


        > Well that could be the case, so maybe you should look into it.

        > LIZ ALSO WROTE:

        > If someone is not paying attention to what email addy they are
        attempting to use, (for what ever reason, maybe confusion or
        frustration, or ?) well that isn't the moderators fault!


        *** Yep I did write that. :-)


        > LEAF REPLIES:

        > In the future, please completely read my post before replying to
        it. Its clear you didn't comprehend my post.
        First, regarding your suggestion that I look into what I've said
        occurred with Yahoo groups when Prometheus banned me from ESA:
        You must have missed the part in my post in which I explained that I
        already *DID* look into Yahoo groups. That's how I concluded it was
        Yahoo groups program that automatically reverted back to my alternate
        email address.

        > Second, since I didn't change the email address, there was no
        reason for me to have known that it had been changed automatically by
        Yahoo, so therefore I didn't notice the change, my dear.

        The reason the change occurred automatically is because my usual
        email address was banned by Prometheus. Since I didn't know he had
        entirely deleted my membership, there was no reason for me to looking
        for such changes when I posted.
        >
        >
        > Leaf


        *** Good I am glad you were able to prove to yourself that it had
        nothing to do with the ESA moderators as was first implied by you.
        Whether you want to believe it or not, Prometheus and I also have the
        same goals as you. So the moral of this story is, if in doubt check
        it out! ;-) And now others know how to do just that... explanation
        is posted below:




        > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth" <ewickings@>
        > wrote:

        > > BTW, a person can read from ESA and not be a member, and they
        still in fact can post a message to the group without having to join!
        This happens at ESA because that was how Prometheus decided to set
        the group up. It is "public", and can be read by anyone as I am
        sure you already knew.

        People have attempted posting replies to messages there, and even
        though they are not officially a member, their message obviously
        gets sent to the "pending file" until a moderator decides to
        allow "it" access to the group.


        <snipped>

        > > FYI, if a person is really all that concerned about whether a
        moderator edited or switched a poster's email or address once
        it gets approved, all one has to do is look at the post in question,
        to the right and below the date it will say: "Show message option".
        If you click the tiny arrow it will expand the area to show: "View
        Source", "Use Fixed Width Font", or "Unwrap Lines". Click
        the one that says "Show message". It will then open up the post at
        the left of the page, and before the actual message it will show who
        it is from, return path, Received.... Etc which for most people is
        hard to read let alone understand if you have no clue what you are
        looking for. Down toward the bottom of all that strange stuff you
        will see From, Subject, X-Yahoo-Group-Post: public or it might say
        member, if it says public, it means the person sending a post is not
        a member of the group. The last line will show: X-eGroups-Approved-
        By: either Prometheus or myself over on ESA. It will also show if
        anything was edited, and by which moderator. This pertains to the
        message posted on ESA Re: Group FYI if this explanation is too
        difficult for anyone to understand, then I guess the point is not
        worth explaining further... This is not too difficult to prove to
        yourselves. It is impossible to remove or change a person's message
        without it showing this within the "Show Message Option" as I
        referenced. Of course one way to accomplish doing any editing and
        posting, would be to forward one of these moderated posts from the
        original message, and post it yourself as a moderator. Which in this
        case in question, was not how it happened on ESA!
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