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Re: Eckankar is a dead horse!

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  • Sharon
    Hey Sword!! Nice to see you!! And thanks so much for taking the time to get off that great new *live* horse you re riding, and popping in here! Yep, e-kult
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 21, 2006
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      Hey Sword!!

      Nice to "see" you!! And thanks so much for taking the time to get
      off that great new *live* horse you're riding, and popping in here!

      Yep, e-kult is a dead horse, but somehow they're still managing to con
      new people into believing it's not only alive, but it's the only real
      live horse in the whole universe, always has been and always will be,
      and in spite of the smell, those who believe it's dead (and always
      *was* dead!) are just spiritually dead & blind themselves.

      I can't remember how many times the a.r.e. eckthugs have tried to stop
      public discussion of the issues by saying the plagiarism, etc., is a
      "dead horse". Especially since Doug Marman wrote the pitiful "Book of
      Marman" which goes to such great lengths trying to turn the
      Twitchster's lies and thievery into something admirable, going far
      beyond Klemp's pitiful "astral library" story. But Doug's been lying
      for a long, long time. And he's even admitted to it - I'd read his
      "animal eckmaster" (forget the name, I'm pretty sure it started with a
      "P") story back when I was a cult member and I believed this
      "ecksperience" story was absolutely true, just like the cult wanted
      its members to believe. Naturally, Doug tried to sort of squirm out
      of the obvious fact that he lied *deliberately* when he got that story
      published - I'll have to dig thru the a.r.e. archives one of these
      days for exactly what he wrote about it - but basically it was
      something like how the story wasn't meant to be taken as literal
      truth, and anyone who believed it that way was a fool or something.
      You know - the usual deceptive & confusing eckancrap!!

      Isn't it totally mind-boggling the way cult HIs and "clergy" - and
      heck, even Klemp Himself - *know* the truth but continue to lie about
      it? There's a big difference between sincere & good-hearted cult
      members & HIs who just aren't aware of the facts - and they *do* exist
      - and the many, like Marman and the other eckthugs, who *do* know the
      truth, and have known it for 30 years or so!!

      Anyway, this makes me think of when I was studying Thoreau & Walden
      back in school. Thoreau wrote about a dead horse on his usual path to
      town and expressed some annoyance about its smelling so bad that he'd
      have to walk pretty far out of his way to get around it. I really
      wondered, why the heck didn't he just bury the thing if it bothered
      him so much? Not just for his own personal reasons, but out of
      consideration for other people, not just their aesthetic sensibilities
      but also for sanitation - dead horses spread disease.

      Wow, this is sort of like "golden tongued wisdom" and "waking dreams",
      isn't it? <gg> Two more items which the cult has pulled out of the
      area of "common sense" & tacked on ecklabels, things which most people
      sort of "do" and "experience" naturally as they go thru life - seeing
      personal meaning and good life-lessons in stories about other things -
      and making a high-holey-extraspeshuleckyspirichulbigdeal out of them.

      Personally, I'm really tired of the odor of dead ekult horse in my
      life - it's been a long time now, and I'd much rather just focus on
      and totally enjoy where I am now, *out* of the cult, and having my
      whole "self" back - mind, heart, and soul! The eckanfoggy lenses are
      gone, as well as the whole eckanoutfit, nope - that's not quite right,
      it was sort of like a costume, though, but one we all took quite
      seriously. I'm sure I'm not the only eckie who'd set up that
      protective "white light" eckwall, not realizing it was actually
      shutting myself into a dark little eckbox!!!

      Anyway, I just started laughing to myself here, thinking about your
      comment about the HI meetings you used to attend, thinking how yep,
      I'm sure they were like deciding what to do with the dead horse, but
      that it would be interesting for others to hear specific little
      details. I was thinking back to right after I went to a.r.e. as a
      true-blue eckie, being in that behind-the-scenes "EckGestapo" which
      was a big factor in waking me up to the reality behind the
      eckillusion. Steve Runfeldt was basically the Gestapo's "moderator"
      and he had to go to one of those weekend HI "retreats" - well, when he
      kept in touch with the rest of the Gestapo via laptop, the brainwashed
      eckie I used to be thought how wonderful that HIs still cared enough
      to keep in touch and continue to be there for guidance and support!
      Excuse me, I've gotta go puke...

      I hope that "newbies" here will look past my bitchin' and complaining
      , and "neglecting" my own Yahoo group & everything else, and
      understand that's what "recovery" is all about, and what they have to
      look forward to - getting de-ecked! Not only does moving out the
      eckancrap result in lots of room for an infinite amount of good,
      wonderful, and "fun" things, but once you're totally de-ecked, you
      really *appreciate* your life so much more, and being able to fully
      and clearly experience it as what it truly is, and not what the cult
      *wants* you to believe about everything not-eck!

      We can never get back those years we lost to the cult. It was sort of
      like being in a coma! Or maybe more like being a zombie, still moving
      around but mindless pawns of sicko zombie-masters in MN. But thank
      goodness, we got out - and being out makes up for those lost years!

      The eckthugs follow the cult's bogus "teachings" about those who
      leave, and try to shame former members into silence with all those
      mindless eckblurbs about not moving on, being stuck in anger, and
      needing to stay "attached" to the cult in a "reverse" way because
      they're still really longing to return to the only source of "Spirit",
      etc. Like so many other of the cult's "teachings", they're *totally*
      wrong. Sometimes it's really amazing, now that I'm out and have my
      mind back, it *really* strikes me at times how the cult so often
      totally *reverses* the truth about so many things!!

      We've moved on, but we're still concerned about the innocents who
      might get infected by that dead eckhorse. Still, being "out" and
      returning to "real life" eventually gets us to the point where
      anything & everything "eck" is just so totally irrelevant and far
      away, it's really hard to keep coming back and dealing with it even a
      little bit.

      I continue to get emails from newbies. One of these days I might have
      to put my foot down with myself, enough is enough, and just write a
      little "form letter" saying I'm so sorry, but I really can *not*
      correspond with people anymore. Just can't keep up with it, even the
      good internet friends I've made over the years. Hey, maybe what we
      can all do is write an annual "Christmas Newsletter" type thing to
      keep in touch!! <gg>

      Anyway, I'd just like to share one of my favorite things while I'm
      here...a Codybear story!! For any newbies out there, Codybear is my
      wonderful newest grandson who recently turned two. I took him out for
      his first fishing experience the other day! Now, he really had *no*
      idea what "fishing" is, but he's pretty enthusiastic about just about
      everything! He loved the smiley-face bobbers, and since he didn't
      know that the whole point was to catch a fish, he was totally happy
      just reeling in the line and couldn't "get" that you were supposed to
      wait until you had a bite. Now, up until then, all the "fish" in his
      life had been the cute "Finding Nemo" characters. He just *loves* his
      "Finding Nemo" soft fuzzy blanket!

      I can't even imagine what was going thru his mind when he reeled in
      his first real fish. He did *not* want to pet it or kiss it. After I
      tossed the first one back into the lake, he'd say "Water" the minute
      he saw he'd landed another one - he wanted *nothing* to do with those
      strange things, and wanted them back where they came from, so he could
      just enjoy reeling in the smiley-face bobber!

      Anyway, he caught three big eating-size sunnies and one little one -
      but it was a catch & release lake. At any rate, there's no way I'd
      expose him to what I normally do with the fish I catch. Can you
      imagine what a two-year-old would think about watching someone clean
      and cook a fish? I think it would be a bit traumatic and confusing.
      On the other hand, people have been hunting and fishing and farming
      for survival for thousands/millions of years and it probably hasn't
      been until rather recently that people have even given a thought to
      how kids process it, but obviously it always works out, otherwise we'd
      have a lot more Jeffrey Dahmers!

      I remember so clearly when my son was four or five, and asked me where
      hamburgers come from. He looked sick when I told him, and couldn't
      finish the one he was eating. We had vegetarian friends so he was
      familiar with the fact that some people don't eat meat, but he didn't
      really know why. Anyway, he tried to be a vegetarian for maybe two
      weeks, but ended up deciding it wasn't for him right then, and that
      he'd eat meat but thank them for the gift of their lives in the Native
      American way.

      I went thru a phase in my 20's, had to give up fishing because I
      couldn't deal with the pain I inflicted on worms.

      Anyway, one thing that's been obvious about Codybear since birth is
      the way he doesn't just jump in, he watches and thinks about things
      first. One day he'll "get" fishing, at least enough that he'll be
      willing to touch a fish! He was cautious about "squirmy-worms" for
      awhile, but now he's a champion worm-catcher, and he even showed some
      interest in wanting to bait the hook himself!

      Well...I could go on forever about my Codybear! I was in the cult for
      my first three grandchildren, who are now 19, 17, and 15, and
      naturally there was the cult element in our relationships, what I
      thought and felt about them was sort of eckanfogged and contaminated
      with some of the cult's nonsense.

      Being out is like being reborn. Joining was like signing up for slow
      death.

      Okay, I've gotta get running along here...my oldest grandson and his
      new bride are visiting this weekend, before going back to school
      out-of-state for their 2nd year of college. They're very excited
      about settling into their first home together!

      Have a great weekend, everyone!

      Hugs,

      Sharon

      PS - I'd like to thank whoever uploaded the "intro" video to a new
      site or two, I forget where!! The more "dead horse warning signs" out
      there, the better!!



      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <Paul@...> wrote:
      >
      > Well, It's been while since I posted here.
      >
      > I found this quote at a leadership training seminar and it was just
      > Soooo eckankarish....
      >
      > This one really reminds me of the High Initiate meetings I used to
      > attend before I got off that old dead horse.
      >
      > It also reminded me of how much I loved my horse before it died.
      > But once it died, there was just no sense riding it any longer....
      >
      > I hope you are all doing okay and riding live horses!
      >
      > The author here probably has absolutely no knowledge or interest in
      > eckankar, so if lurkers are present, please leave this guy alone. I
      > only post his name to give proper credit to the auther, something
      > the eck masters often forget to do.
      >
      > Swordansar
      >
      > Quote follows:
      >
      > Cuando el caballo esta muerto, dejalo (When the horse dies GET
      > OFF)
      >
      >
      >
      > Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you are riding a dead horse, the
      > best strategy is to dismount. However, in some Associations we try
      > lots of other techniques to work with dead horses, including the
      > following:
      >
      >
      >
      > Changing riders.
      >
      >
      >
      > Buying a stronger whip.
      >
      >
      >
      > Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
      >
      >
      >
      > Proclaiming, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."
      >
      >
      >
      > Appointing a committee to study the horse.
      >
      >
      >
      > Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
      >
      >
      >
      > Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
      >
      >
      >
      > Creating an educational session to increase our riding ability.
      >
      >
      >
      > Change the requirements declaring that, "this horse is not dead."
      >
      >
      >
      > Hire contractors and consultants to advise on riding the dead horse.
      >
      >
      >
      > Declaring that "No horse is too dead to ride".
      >
      >
      >
      > Do a cost-analysis study to see if it can be ridden any cheaper.
      >
      >
      >
      > Declare the horse is more effective being dead.
      >
      >
      >
      > Form an ad hoc committee to find a good use for dead horses.
      >
      >
      >
      > Say this horse was subsidized by another project and thus it doesn't
      > really matter that it is dead.
      >
      >
      >
      > Promote the trainer of the dead horse to a supervisory position.
      >
      >
      >
      > Lobby the government to protect dead horses."
      >
      >
      >
      > Author: Robert Harris, CAE; The NonProfit Center
      >
    • tygerpurr
      Just had to post something. I liked this little gem of a paragraph or two. Destructive Cults like eckankar usually target the young and the more vulnerable,
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 15, 2006
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        Just had to post something. I liked this little gem of a paragraph or
        two. Destructive Cults like eckankar usually target the young and the
        more vulnerable, those who don't really know about the truth of the
        lies and fraud. I think it is a good idea to check out the photo of
        klemp in the OUTHOUSE (the temple within), every now and then. LOL

        Tygerpurr ; )

        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        ..................
        The eckthugs follow the cult's bogus "teachings" about those who
        leave, and try to shame former members into silence with all those
        mindless eckblurbs about not moving on, being stuck in anger, and
        needing to stay "attached" to the cult in a "reverse" way because
        they're still really longing to return to the only source of "Spirit",
        etc. Like so many other of the cult's "teachings", they're *totally*
        wrong. Sometimes it's really amazing, now that I'm out and have my
        mind back, it *really* strikes me at times how the cult so often
        totally *reverses* the truth about so many things!!

        We've moved on, but we're still concerned about the innocents who
        might get infected by that dead eckhorse. Still, being "out" and
        returning to "real life" eventually gets us to the point where
        anything & everything "eck" is just so totally irrelevant and far
        away, it's really hard to keep coming back and dealing with it even a
        little bit. ......................
      • battuta_maghreb
        It really is strange to look back after having opened one s eyes. Unfortunately Eckankar isn t the only dead horse around these days. This country and the
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 23, 2006
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          It really is strange to look back after having opened one's eyes.
          Unfortunately Eckankar isn't the only dead horse around these days.
          This country and the world still has quite a ways to go before
          rational thought is universally accepted. Sam Harris' book "The End
          of Faith" addresses this issue briliantly.

          http://www.samharris.org/site/book_end_of_faith/
        • tygerpurr
          I agree. I haven t yet read Sam Harris s book, but I have read a few of his articles and saw one of his lectures on tv. It is also interesting that so many
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 25, 2006
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            I agree. I haven't yet read Sam Harris's book, but I have read a few
            of his articles and saw one of his lectures on tv. It is also
            interesting that so many secular societies seem to be more
            compassionate than societies claiming to be all about religion. As far
            as eckankult claiming to be superior to organized religion, well,
            eckankult is just another authoritarian theocracy we can do without, imo.

            Tygerpurr ; )

            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "battuta_maghreb"
            <battuta_maghreb@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > It really is strange to look back after having opened one's eyes.
            > Unfortunately Eckankar isn't the only dead horse around these days.
            > This country and the world still has quite a ways to go before
            > rational thought is universally accepted. Sam Harris' book "The End
            > of Faith" addresses this issue briliantly.
            >
            > http://www.samharris.org/site/book_end_of_faith/
            >
          • Raymond Seymour
            Hello there, this is the first time I emailed anyone on this subject, but I am currently in Eckankar and I only get feedback from other Eckists, I want another
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 27, 2006
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              Hello there, this is the first time I emailed anyone on this subject, but I am currently in Eckankar and I only get feedback from other Eckists, I want another opinion I question everything. Until recently, Eckankar was the only religion I had discovered that seem to answer my questions, but just like all the other religions I can't take the rules. Can you give me feedback on this it sounds like you've been there.

              Thanks if you can.



              tygerpurr <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
              I agree. I haven't yet read Sam Harris's book, but I have read a few
              of his articles and saw one of his lectures on tv. It is also
              interesting that so many secular societies seem to be more
              compassionate than societies claiming to be all about religion. As far
              as eckankult claiming to be superior to organized religion, well,
              eckankult is just another authoritarian theocracy we can do without, imo.

              Tygerpurr ; )

              --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "battuta_maghreb"
              <battuta_maghreb@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > It really is strange to look back after having opened one's eyes.
              > Unfortunately Eckankar isn't the only dead horse around these days.
              > This country and the world still has quite a ways to go before
              > rational thought is universally accepted. Sam Harris' book "The End
              > of Faith" addresses this issue briliantly.
              >
              > http://www.samharris.org/site/book_end_of_faith/
              >






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            • pato
              Hello there, this is the first time I emailed anyone on this subject, but I am currently in Eckankar and I only get feedback from other Eckists, I want another
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 30, 2006
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                Hello there, this is the first time I emailed anyone on this subject, but I am currently in Eckankar and I only get feedback from other Eckists, I want another opinion I question everything. Until recently, Eckankar was the only religion I had discovered that seem to answer my questions, but just like all the other religions I can't take the rules. Can you give me feedback on this it sounds like you've been there.

                Thanks if you can


                Hi All,
                Rules Rules Rules ......... Wats new with all these religions. Maybe one should form there own religion ,afterall it is ones relationship with themselves and God.wouldnt it be more adventerous,more liberating and more fulfilling? Cutting out the middle man or woman always helps.Start from the begining-I know nothing and then Scutinise wat you take in.Have the ability and the authority of accepting,rejecting or even deferring it.its your choice,your life and your happiness.Be wary of anyone asking for financial gain for spiritual awareness for observing the beauty of a flower in the countryside could give you more.
                Thats all I can on this subject and yet I know nothing .

                Stay tuned Pato the traveller.


                ---------------------------------
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              • Sharon
                ... subject, but I am currently in Eckankar and I only get feedback from other Eckists, I want another opinion I question everything. Until recently, Eckankar
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 30, 2006
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                  --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Raymond Seymour <bkdclove4all@.
                  ..> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello there, this is the first time I emailed anyone on this
                  subject, but I am currently in Eckankar and I only get feedback from
                  other Eckists, I want another opinion I question everything. Until
                  recently, Eckankar was the only religion I had discovered that seem to
                  answer my questions, but just like all the other religions I can't
                  take the rules. Can you give me feedback on this it sounds like
                  you've been there.
                  >
                  > Thanks if you can.


                  Hi Raymond -

                  I joined because it seemed to answer many of my questions too - and it
                  said *all* my questions would be answered eventually, when I was
                  "ready". I took the bait, and before I knew it, I was reeled in and
                  hooked.

                  Sort of reminds me of a recent fishing experience. I was fishing with
                  Codybear, my two-year-old grandson, who kept reeling in the bluegills
                  one after the other. A roughly 10-year-old boy watched enviously, and
                  eventually came over and asked us how to catch fish - it was his first
                  time! He was using a big bright purple rubber worm that had come with
                  his new rod & reel. I asked him if he'd eat a big purple rubber
                  french fry. He said no. I said neither do fish, and gave him some of
                  our nightcrawlers. They worked, and the kid started catching fish!

                  We ate the rubber worm, Raymond!

                  One of the first rules I learned in ekult wasn't really written
                  anywhere - it's "don't ask". I asked what happened to Darwin Gross -
                  this was not long after "Darwingate". I'd gotten his bio from the
                  library, along with some Twitch & Klempbooks. The HI Arahata said
                  "he's not the master anymore" and changed the subject. I eventually
                  learned a little bit about his "fall from grace" in the eckbooks, then
                  when I got out and got on the internet, I learned the truth.

                  Anyway, feel free to ask questions here - I hope people will be polite
                  if you get "ecky", especially me! <gg> And I *really* hope you're
                  sincere about just getting feedback, and not another eckanmissionary
                  playing games. That kind of thing is "old", boring, and I don't have
                  the patience I used to.

                  You might want to spend some time reading the message archives here,
                  and also check out "EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous" and "X", and other
                  stuff in the "links" and "files" sections here.

                  Anyway, while I'm here - hi everyone! Hope you're all enjoying your
                  delightfully eckfree lives just as much as I am!!

                  Darn, I wish I'd been keeping a list of some interesting sites I've
                  wanted to share here but never get around to, especially some that
                  people have sent me and asked me to post, for one reason or another -
                  have to go back thru my email and "compile" them. But for right now,
                  here are a few that I just happen to have handy -

                  http://kriskristofferson.com/news/

                  http://www.truemajority.org/bensbbs/ - this one's especially awesome,
                  it puts things into terms I can understand!! I get confused with big
                  numbers. Make sure you go back & check out the rest of the site, too!

                  http://www.hanksville.org/yucatan/sacrifice.html - this one leads
                  nicely to the next, which *really* shocked me, the way CBS tried to
                  keep this issue quiet! Make sure you read the story at the "Our
                  Journey" link: http://www.honornation.org

                  Here's one mentioned by a former eckist, who's hoping maybe to find
                  some help & support for this very worthy cause, just one of so many
                  trying to help solve the problem of Aids in Africa - in this case, the
                  children. I just popped over to http://www.uhuru.de.vu to make sure
                  I had the right link & it's still working, but it seems to me that
                  when I first saw it, it was in English - don't remember if I used a
                  website translator but tried to find one that worked & couldn't, and
                  right now I'm sort of in a hurry - so it's in German but I know we've
                  got at least one bi-lingual German/English speaker here.

                  Last but not least: http://d21c.com/terri1/flash/smile.swf

                  Okay, my mind just went blank except for one more thing, which I'll
                  post separately!

                  Have a good one, everyone!

                  Hugs,

                  Sharon
                • Ganesh622@cs.com
                  There s an author named Tom(not Harold) Robbins. He wrote a book quite a while ago called Skinny Legs and All . Here s a quote: Religion is nothing but
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 30, 2006
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                    There's an author named Tom(not Harold) Robbins. He wrote a book quite a
                    while ago called "Skinny Legs and All". Here's a quote:"Religion is nothing but
                    institutionalized mysticism.The catch is,mysticism does not lend itself to
                    institutionalization.The moment we try to organize mysticism, we destroy its
                    essence. Religion, then,is mysticism in which the mystical has been killed." I kinda
                    can relate to that little description.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • macmille2000
                    ... quite a ... nothing but ... itself to ... destroy its ... killed. I kinda ... Hi Ganesh...that is a wonder share! Wow! I love the way Robbins put that
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 4, 2006
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                      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Ganesh622@... wrote:
                      >
                      > There's an author named Tom(not Harold) Robbins. He wrote a book
                      quite a
                      > while ago called "Skinny Legs and All". Here's a quote:"Religion is
                      nothing but
                      > institutionalized mysticism.The catch is,mysticism does not lend
                      itself to
                      > institutionalization.The moment we try to organize mysticism, we
                      destroy its
                      > essence. Religion, then,is mysticism in which the mystical has been
                      killed." I kinda
                      > can relate to that little description.
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      Hi Ganesh...that is a wonder share! Wow! I love the way Robbins put that
                      definition into words...Robbins was one of my fave authors...have to
                      pick-up "Skinny-legs" Unless that is the story w/ woman who had really
                      big thumbs???

                      Sincerely, Macmille2000
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