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Discourse & discussion on "inner" vs "outer" eckist

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  • Sharon
    Subject: Re: The Mission From: Sharon2000 Date: 12 Nov 2002 16:18:17 GMT Organization: Eckankar Sucks Newsgroups:
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 21, 2006
      Subject: Re: The Mission
      From: "Sharon2000" <brighttigr...@...>
      Date: 12 Nov 2002 16:18:17 GMT
      Organization: Eckankar Sucks
      Newsgroups: alt.religion.eckankar,alt.eckankar

      joe_m...@... (Joe) wrote:
      > "Ken" <kah...@...> wrote in message
      > news:<UARz9.8473$hK4.819357@...>...
      > > Sam wrote...
      > > >
      > > Sharon wrote...
      > > > >
      > > > >This is meaningless, and one of the reasons why I rarely read
      > > > >posts.
      > > > >
      > > > ><yawn>
      > > >
      > > > Please tell me how on earth you expect me to believe this.
      > >
      > >
      > > Sharon's view of Eckankar's teaching is inverted. That's not news
      > > know, but it's worth saying anyway. (The obvious needs to be
      > > <g>). Divine Spirit is One. All Being is of That. Everything
      > > (including the teaching of Eckankar) is but a reflection.
      > Another Eckist telling us "what Eckankar really is," and how others
      > opinions about Eckankar (no matter how well supported by quotes from
      > the LEMs) is just plain wrong.
      > No arrogance there.

      Well, we need to take into consideration exactly *why* eckists do this
      they've been thoroughly indoctrinated with the "missionary" agenda,
      aren't even aware of how they *know* <gg> what should be given to the
      public, and what needs to be held back. Heck, Klemp instructs them
      in deception - see
      http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/handout6.html - and
      are many other places where Klemp shows how well he follows current
      marketing "wisdom", as well as the marketing techniques Twitch already
      built into his cult.

      Anyway, this reminds me of a good example from awhile back, where
      totally contradicts Klemp in the "secret discourses" for the public,
      then refuses to discuss it!!


      Subject: Re: The Dubious Morality of Discourse Secrecy
      From: "Sharon2000" <brighttigr...@...>
      Date: 17 Mar 2002 15:47:47 GMT

      "HU 4 God" <hu4...@...> wrote:
      > I've learned that discussing things with some members of this
      > goes nowhere. It would not matter what I say or believe the
      > are saying to me because some folks here just want to twist thoughts
      > ideas around to suit their "agenda".
      > --
      > In Spirit,
      > Jackie
      > @->->--

      But, Jackie, you usually have no problem discussing things!

      What Klemp writes in that discourse quite obviously is *not* what
      getting from it "on the inner" -- quite the opposite, in fact!

      So...why don't you just pretend I'm a newbie at Satsang, and you're
      the HI
      Arahata, and you're asked wait a minute, if the "outer" stuff isn't
      important, then why is this discourse saying something entirely

      I'll repost the discourse below. Maybe you'll want to explain a bit
      how you got your interpretation, because otherwise, well...anyone who
      at what Harold says in the discourse is going to think that you've
      just got
      a bit of a reading comprehension problem.


      From: Sharon2000 (brighttigr...@... )
      Subject: Re: Nolo Contendre
      Newsgroups: alt.religion.eckankar, alt.eckankar, alt.support.ex-cult
      Date: 2002-03-03 12:21:57 PST
      "HU 4 God" <hu4...@...> wrote:
      > I've decided not to respond to Sharon's questions because it goes
      > deaf ears and because she is trying to get me to discuss private
      > discourses.

      In other words, if someone isn't going to agree with you, you're not
      going to talk to them?

      Isn't that an attitude sort of like Klemp's in the discourse, where
      just because the young man questioned Rebizarre's age, Klemp took it
      as an attack on his own spiritual gianthood?

      I realize you and other cult members are forbidden to discuss the
      discourses, but that's not exactly fair to the people you're trying to
      recruit into the cult, is it?

      But...you're just doing what Klemp instructs. To deceive people to
      their attention, and not to tell them some things at first, like the
      threats in the "teachings", or the copyrighted cult words...you're
      to use "God" and "Holy Spirit" in public, not "Sugmad" and "Eck".

      > She posts one story with a small explanation from Harold
      > without "the rest of the story" so of course her points are
      > to venom.

      I posted a whole discourse on the subject of the importance of going
      seminars and classes. A young man didn't want to go, although he said
      still "loved the eck" and wanted to remain a member, but a "silent"
      Sort of like what you advised someone to do, and what other members
      *they* do, all the time.

      Klemp says otherwise, Jackie. Plain and simple. My "venom" has
      nothing to
      do with it. Delete the "venom" and read what Klemp has to say. Of
      he spews a bit of venom out himself, but that's okay. He's a
      giant"! <ggg>

      So, what's "the rest of the story" that I left out?

      You don't have to respond, Jackie. The discourse says it all. Like
      says on the last page: "This discourse has been authored by and
      under the supervision of the Living ECK Master, Sri Harold Klemp. It
      the Word of ECK."

      Your refusal to answer questions regarding material which contradicts
      you and other members say to try to attract new members also proves
      believe the old threat that used to be printed on the discourses
      Klemp toned down the strong wording from "To reveal its contents to
      outside your immediate household of ECK study class will halt any
      growth you may have" to "It is for your own spiritual benefit and may
      shared only with those in your immediate household or ECK Satsang

      No, Jackie, it's not necessary that you answer my questions. People
      read "The Word of ECK" and see for themselves. I'll repost it below
      those who may have missed it.


      Re: Out of Eck in '73
      "Sharon2000" <brighttigr...@...>
      Friday 7:35 PM
      Newsgroups: alt.religion.eckankar, alt.eckankar, alt.support.ex-cult

      "HU 4 God" <hu4...@...> wrote:
      > Sorry Sharon but your pov is NOT mine and I do not agree with your
      > "assessment". I remember that story from the private discourse and
      > Harold meant the boy had to find his OWN way. Now if your version
      > doesn't have that in it, then maybe it's not complete.

      It's not *my* assessment, Jackie. It's the "Word of ECK" - Harold
      makes it
      quite clear that the kid needs to go to classes & seminars. It's not
      all about the boy "finding his own way". And my version is the same
      yours -- this was one of Klemp's "new" discourse series, with his
      on the first page.

      Feel free to compare your copy with what I'll be posting here, and
      show me
      perhaps where mine isn't "complete". And I'd also like some
      on what makes you come to the conclusion that you arrived at, because
      most certainly *not* anything in the discourse.

      I think this discourse is making two very important points. 1) You
      do the "org" stuff, and 2) You *must* believe everything the cult

      > > "HU 4 God" <hu4...@...> wrote:
      > > > If you don't want to be a member anymore, just don't sign up
      > > > year. Besides, being an ECKist does not mean you have to be
      active on
      > > > the outer. IMO living the live of ECK is a personal one and can
      > > > done privately. Many people step aside from the outer
      > > > activities and just do their own "thing". That's ok too.
      > >
      > >
      > > Sorry, Jackie, but it's NOT okay, according to Klemp.
      > >
      > > Klemp took a whole secret members-only discourse to address this
      > > subject, concerning a young man who "wanted to remain a silent
      > > not coming to ECK classes or ECK seminars." (Note the use of ECK
      > > mean the ORGANIZATION, not "holy spirit".)
      > >
      > > From Letters of Light & Sound 2, #10, "A Passion for God", by
      > > Klemp:
      > >
      > > "The other day, a young man faced me with his doubts about the
      > > teachings of ECK. Born into an ECK family, he had enjoyed every
      > > spiritual advantage. His birth into the beginnings of the modern-
      > > movement of ECKANKAR had apparently made it too easy for him. He
      > > missed out on the long search for God that many of us make before
      > > first meeting with the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master. He was at
      > > age of youthful rebellion.
      > >
      > >
      > > This young ECKist had lost his passion for God. How thoughtlessly
      > > often brush aside the gifts of life, such as youth, health,
      > > intelligence, but especially the most precious gift of all---the
      > > straight-line path to God.
      > >
      > > However, he was not leaving ECK for another path. His passing
      > > knowledge of various paths did not include a desire to join them,
      > > because they did not measure up to the teachings of ECK. He
      wanted to
      > > continue as a member of ECKANKAR. Yet he wanted to remain a
      > > member, not coming to ECK classes or ECK seminars.
      > >
      > > There was no point in arguing. On the contrary, it was amusing to
      > > the voice of inexperience speak up in defiance of ECK, for that is
      > > it was."
      > >

      The discourse continues:

      "Soul insists upon having Its experiences. By his vain challenge of
      this youth was putting blocks in his own way, making trouble for
      himself by
      refusing to accept God's love. Yet it was his right. Doing such a
      only proves the need for more spiritual experience."

      (Pretty harsh & judgmental of Klemp, isn't it?)

      "The teachings of ECK were his since he was a baby. Its truth was the
      and substance of his spiritual being.

      Asked whether he had a clear-cut question in mind, he was quick to
      his love for ECK, but the age of Rebazar Tarzs was a concern."

      (Hmmmmm....so, it's more than the kid just wanting to do it "on the
      He dared to ask a question, to not accept blindly....but says he still
      loves "the eck". So what's Klemp getting all bent out of shape for?

      "Was Rebazar actually five hundred years old? Did he pass his time in
      little shack up in the Himalayas, content with an occasional cup of
      tea and
      a handful of rice for nourishment? It was hard to believe. Further,
      would not believe it unless Rebazar told him so in person. The young
      would wait for an answer, even if it took eighty years.

      "Wait if you like," I said, "but also get on with your life."

      (bold header) The story about Rebazar

      The story about Rebazar, his hut, and his modest diet are the
      under which Paul Twitchell met this ECK Master years ago. Yet Rebazar
      other Masters of the Vairagi Order usually live among people, for that
      where the spiritual need is. They dress in ordinary clothes, not in
      To be effective as Co-workers with God, they try to look like everyone
      else. But they carry the gift of divine love. When the need arrises,
      often appear at a critical moment to give of God's blessings, asking
      nothing in return.

      Our young friend still has much to learn about selfless love for God.
      (Note: "learn about selfless love for God" is in bold print.)

      (?????? So, Klemp is telling this young man that simply because he
      *proof* of Reb's existence, he's not quite up to snuff on "selfless
      love"???? Excuse me??? Now, when I was a cult member I neither
      believed nor disbelieved in Rebazar. It wasn't important to me. Of
      course, at the time I didn't know that a lot of the stuff Reb "told"
      Twitchell had already been published in works by other authors! )

      Klemp continues --

      "Rebazar may eventually reply to his question about about longevity,
      the ECK Masters well understand human nature and its pride. People
      they know it all."

      (Of course, Klemp has to get in his little digs about this young man
      dares to ask questions!)

      "Back in the Dark Ages, a person used to be old at thirty. Yet the
      life span has pushed upward over the centuries, until in the past
      it is common to hear of people a hundred or more. by comparison to
      the ECK
      Adepts, even Shigechiyo Izumi, a Japanese man who lived to 120, was a
      tender youth. China supposedly has the records of a man who died well
      the age of two hundred years. But these are ordinary people. Some
      Masters have gone beyond those age limits by immortalizing their
      bodies to
      reclaim youth and health for better service to SUGMAD in this world."

      (What's this supposed to "prove", Klemp? That just because there is
      documentation of some 120 year old Japanese guy, that means first of
      that there *is* a Rebazar, and secondly that he *is* 500 years old?
      People are supposed to believe you, and Twitch? No questions

      "They do it out of a strong passion for God."

      (??? Really? Prove it, Klemp!! First of all, there is *no* proof
      they exist. On the contrary, considering their "words" were already
      by others, in previously published & copyrighted books, well...c'mon,
      should be thankful that this kid at least wants to remain a member,
      even if
      he *does* want proof of Reb!)

      (Now---here comes Klemp with some irrelevant examples, probably to
      the kid to want to "achieve" these experiences for himself---and after
      examples, Klemp will point out to the kid that it's just not possible
      without going to meetings and classes.)

      "In others, however, this passion for life occurs within a more normal
      span. An example is St. Francis of Assisi, who lived in the
      century. Often while in prayer, the rapture of God lifted him from
      ground to varying heights, from a few feet to higher than a tree. St.
      Catherine of Genoa, some three centuries later, felt a passion for God
      manifested itself as a body heat of high intensity. Once, after
      her burning hands into a pitcher of cool water, the water turned hot.
      Another person with a passion for God was St. Teresa. Divine love
      lifted her from her body (Soul Travel), giving mixed feelings of
      and fear. She once described leaving the human body as delicious, yet
      still frightened her, especially when her rapture came in public.

      Soul Travel lifted her from the human body, which sometimes had the
      effect of physical levitation. She took great care not to let people
      her. Yet her passion for God remained strong, because her experiences
      of great sweetness, if she could raise the courage not to resist them.

      (Amazing, isn't it? Where does Klemp look for real, living examples
      "Soul Travel"? To that dead "lower" path, Catholicism!!! <ggg>
      isn't it fascinating that although there are supposedly all these
      ancient "Vairagi ECK Masters" sneaking around doing good deeds, for
      odd reason there is absolutely *no* records *anywhere* of either their
      existence *or* their deeds. On the other hand, there is tons & tons
      stuff on the Catholic saints -- hundreds of them. They left a lot of
      *original* writings, too. They didn't find it necessary to
      materialize in
      Paul Twitchell's bedroom and "dictate" the words of other authors.
      kept diaries & stuff. And other people left eyewitness accounts. The
      Catholic Church has a lot of stringent requirements for granting
      They don't accept monthly "dream journal" entries, or the claims of
      Mexican woman who sees Jesus in her tortilla. However, the message
      *is* quite clear -- Klemp is telling the kid that he doesn't love God
      enough. Perhaps the problem is the kid said he loves "the ECK".
      a difference.)

      Klemp continues:

      "An ECKist from Africa once posted a question to an American audience.
      you know the difference between ECK initiates in America and in
      he asked. (in bold print) "In America, you try to put the ECK in your
      lives. In Africa, we put our lives in the ECK!" <unbold> A simple
      significant truth.

      (Okay, now what is this saying? Remember, the kid said he wanted to
      a member, a silent member, not go to classes & seminars. That's all.
      said he still loved "the eck". African members are frequently held
      up as
      good examples to the lazy Americans -- for example, in one story Klemp
      expressed admiration for an African HI who made "his" chelas memorize
      "teachings" so thoroughly that they could spew forth seminar talks
      preparation, on demand. And there are lots of stories about how
      are packed, and new temples being built, etc. Now, thinking about
      difference between putting "eck in your lives" and putting your "lives
      the eck", in the context of the subject of this discourse, seems to me
      it does NOT mean just having "holy spirit" in your life, as you
      said it was okay to do as a member, which is why I'm posting this.
      Klemp is saying is....the organization, meetings, classes, seminars,
      *are* important! And if you don't attend them, obviously you do NOT
      "God" enough.)

      And....for the life of me, I can NOT understand the relevance of what
      writes next:

      "Not so long ago, someone threw a dart at the Mahanta, the Living ECK
      Master. "He likes his job too much!" this person said. This news was
      than amusing. <bold> The Master devotes his entire life to helping
      make their own lives richer and more spiritually fulfilling, <unbold>
      what sort of Master would be be who would not enjoy doing that?"

      (???? What's this got to do with the subject this discourse
      started on??? Let's see now...)

      <bold header> Life requires a passion for God

      "Life requires a passion for God. The Mahanta has it, which often
      others, who are unhappy with their own relationship with God, try to
      him down a peg. It is the social mind at its worst. The engine that
      drives this envy is the human consciousness, which uses every trick in
      futile attempt to reduce a spiritual giant to the level of the critic

      (Good grief!!!! Why did I never recognize these paranoid rantings
      when I
      was a member? Seems to me the kid in the beginning didn't have a
      "problem" with either his relationship with God, *or* with wanting to
      remain a cult member. He just wanted to be a "silent" member and not
      go to
      classes & seminars, which publicly, cult members will tell you is
      all right. All the kid did was question Reb's age!!! He didn't even
      question Reb's existence....just his age!!! And Klemp seems to be
      interpreting this as a personal attack against "The Master"?!?!?!?)

      "At the beginning of this discourse, you read of the young man with
      about the age of Rebazar Tarzs, the Tibetan ECK Master. Now let's
      another side. Originally from a mainline Christian church, this
      person is
      now an ECK initiate, too, but with fewer years in ECK than the young
      This person came to ECK the hard way: after years of searching and
      disappointment in his search for truth."

      (Comment here: the cult DOES teach quite clearly that *everyone* who
      the cult in this incarnation *has* spend hundreds or thousands of
      incarnations, searching in vain, and that they have *earned* their
      peoplehood whether they know it or not. Klemp also strokes the
      members excessively, even telling them that they may indeed be much
      spiritually than their elders.)

      "He frankly enjoys the company of the people at the ECK Center. They
      to speak about the SUGMAD, the Mahanta, and the Light and Sound of ECK
      and do so without reservation.

      The first time he sang HU (the ancient love song to God) at an
      Worship Service, a purple light appeared in his Spiritual Eye.
      Purple is one of the many colors of the Light of God, and in
      it he
      saw a soaring eagle. This was his introduction to ECK. He
      compared his activity in ECK to his involvement in his old
      where he used to have to listen a lot. A few elders, who
      claimed a
      more direct line to the Word of God, preached at him and the
      congregation. They let no one else speak about their own
      experiences. The minister even warned a member once not to
      with this person, because the latter's ideas ran counter to
      of the church.

      (Hmmmm....interesting little story, huh? Klemp's filling a double
      here....telling the kid (a bad example) about a cool experience a
      example of a member had at a "worship" service, and getting in his
      digs at Christianity. Funny thing, though, I've never heard
      pastors claiming they had a more direct line to God -- that's
      reserved for the LEMs!!!! Really!!!! Plenty of quotes about that -
      - and
      you can only "connect" with paid membershp. This stuff sounds more
      the pot calling the kettle black, you know?)

      "Shortly after his experience with the Light of God at the ECK Worship
      Service, he again saw the purple light at a worship service: this
      time, at
      his regular church. The Light of God opened his heart. It flooded
      with a divine wisdom unknown to him before, so he asked his minister
      permission to speak to the rest about it.

      Of course not," the minister replied. "The people cannot understand
      wisdom, because they are not open enough to receive it."

      (Puh-leeze!!! I think this story is bullshit. On the other hand,
      knows? I mean, right here at alt.religion.eckankar we've got "Sri
      - would Klemp let him speak at the "temple"? <ggg>)

      "Yet at the ECK book discussion classes, he had found an easy
      acceptance of
      his spiritual view amaong the members of ECK. Little of what he said
      his inner experiences was of any surprise to them. One ECKist or
      had had a similar experience at some time or other, so they understood
      and his new insights into the wonderful ways of Divine Spirit. Though
      rest of his family still attend their old church, he tries to be a
      husband and father, because he, in turn, understands their fear of
      rejection. They are afraid of what people in their church would say
      they left it for ECKANKAR."

      (In spite of Klemp's constant digs about the insincerity of members of
      other religions, which may perhaps stem from his *own* need for
      outer approval, I daresay if you ask most members of other religions
      they stay, they'll tell you about the spiritual fulfillment they find
      there. Try it -- I did! And being fulfilled spiritually in their
      religion of choice, why would they leave it for a silly new-age cult?)

      "This man is very fortunate. Although he has been in ECKANKAR for a
      shorter time than the young man mentioned earlier, he has seen Rebazar

      (Yeah...all because he's a good little eckboy and goes to meetings!)

      <bold header> The ECK Master came to him in a dream.

      The ECK Master came to him in a dream. Rebazar struck him as a warm
      being with a beautiful personality. The ECK Master spoke to him like
      friend, as if they had known each other for years -- although it was
      dreamer's first conscious recall of Rebazar. The man's wife and
      were in the dream, too. They stood on a riverbank, downstream, near
      place that Rebazar Tarzs had met them. The dreamer gazed into the
      water where fish swam, while Rebazar gave him some instructions on
      diet as
      well as the wisdom of God.

      (Of course, if you hang out with enough cult members & really absorb
      "teachings" you can talk yourself into just about anything. Heck ....
      my late teens & 20's "programming" my dreams was a fun thing, but...
      what I
      was doing was *fiction*.)

      The discourse continues:

      "This ECK initiate is grateful for his Christian background. How else
      could he <bold> fully appreciate the wealth of spiritual experiences
      <unbold> that are now his in ECKANKAR?"

      (Yep...another subtle "dart" thrown at the mediocrity of his former
      non-productive path!)

      "Since his first experience with the purple light (Etheric Plane, the
      of intuition right below the Soul Plane), he has seen the golden light
      God. The divine colors have opened him to an appreciation of the
      meaning behind the Living ECK Master's words at public seminars."

      (NOTE HERE Klemp's using the phrase "at public seminars". He's
      home the point that the seminars are important. Not just reading the
      published talks in eckbooks. These three little words show quite
      that Klemp is *very* focused on the subject of telling members they
      go to classes & seminars.)

      "This gentleman has made a good beginning on the road home to God.
      And the
      Mahanta has since met him in the dream state, bringing peace, wisdom,
      spiritual strength."

      (In contrast to the bad young man, huh?)

      <bold header> A passion for God finds its roots in the desire for

      "A passion for God finds its roots in the desire for spiritual
      freedom. A
      seeker may spend years searching for truth, only to meet with
      disappointment time and again. Then, unexpectedly, comes a new

      Ten years ago, a young woman began her own search for God.

      Every morning she walked four miles, trying to adjust to life again
      breaking up with an old boyfriend. One morning during her walk, she
      entered a state of bliss. It brought a powerful sense of peace and
      joy, as
      if she had stumbled into a perfect world of happiness. Her thoughts
      turned to God. That was unusual, because she rarely thought about
      God, but
      she heard herself say, "OK, God! If you exist, prove it to me." She
      promised to join whatever religion God wanted her to.

      After awhile, her spiritual search led her to a church that focuses
      metaphysics. She had the good fortune to study under a woman who had
      certain skills in that area, which taught her a lot and prepared her
      ECKANKAR later. While a member of that church, a very odd thing began
      happen to her when she was driving in her car, working at the office,
      staying at home. A voice inside her would suddenly say "I have to go
      I have to go home." The words came repeatedly.

      Later, after ECKANKAR came into her life, these words from her inner
      began to abate.

      Thus after a few years at that metaphysical church, this young woman
      it to continue her restless search for spiritual freedom. She asked
      for a Master to show her the path of love. In a bookstore, a few days
      later, she found Paul Twitchell's ECKANKAR---the Key to Secret Worlds.
      bought the book and read it in two days. A week later, she signed up
      membership in ECK.

      (Hmmmm...note that one!! She signed up for membership...in ECK?
      Shouldn't Klemp be saying ECKANKAR here? This is just one more of
      of example showing how the cult conflates ECK and ECKANKAR, and in
      minds, although they say publicly "eck" means "Holy Spirit", that's
      exactly true. ECK is a copyrighted cult word. The cult claims its
      spirit" is "higher" than "non-eck holy spirit". etc.)

      "Sometime later, she boarded a plane to fly to the annual ECK
      Seminar. Her life was sunshine and roses."

      (Puhleeze!!! This is a riot!!!)

      "At the seminar on Friday, she went into the main hall to listen to
      music and the afternoon talks. She sat down alone, shut her eyes, and
      immediately found herself in a beautiful valley with a river running
      through it. The Mahanta was by the river waiting for her, so she
      walked up
      to him. He put his arm around her and said, "You are home." Then
      Tarzs and other ECK Masters also came up to embrace her, saying, "You
      home." Their greetings moved her to tears. She knew then, no matter
      turmoil might come later, ECK was for her.

      This inner experience made sense of the inner voice that used to speak
      her desire to go home. She returned to that river on the inner planes
      during that seminar weekend, <bold> encircled by the love of ECK.

      (Dontcha just love these stories!! <ggg> Are they any more true
      those testimonials from women who increased their bustlines 5" in
      days? Hey...those things *work*!!! They show pictures!!!)

      Before her experiences at the ECK seminar, she had not been much of a
      visual person: no dreams, no memory of other inner travels, not even
      guided visualizations led by others in the ECK classes. Yet that
      at the ECK seminar taught her that <bold> ECKANKAR is the path of
      The love of the Mahanta won't end all doubts, however, for they crop
      during each new period of spiritual testing.

      (In other words, bad young man, you *must* go to the seminars if you
      to see Reb!! Now...what's this "spiritual testing" thing? To be
      brief, it's "doubts" implanted either by the KAL to lure you away, or
      there by the "Master" for your spiritual growth. "Success" means
      rid of the doubts, accepting 100% whatever the cult hands out, and
      a loyal member....and going to seminars, and spending your money, and

      "During a recent time of testing, she debated whether to leave
      when some ECKists in her hometown were having to jump through their
      spiritual hoops and not doing a good job of it. An inner nudge from
      Mahanta said, "Patience."

      At a Day with ECK a while later, she again felt the warm, familiar
      love of
      the Mahanta encircle her as the ECK program began.

      Listening to the program, she shut her eyes. The Mahanta and Rebazar
      into her spiritual vision, carrying a brown box. The Mahanta opened
      carefully and took out a large crystal heart that radiated with light.
      Lovingly, he placed it inside her. It produced a deep effect: She
      was at
      once inside it, but it was also within her. This experience filled
      with love, for she again had the gentle, loving guidance of the
      the Living ECK Master, and all the other ECK Masters.

      <bold> Her desire is to find spiritual freedom in this lifetime.
      She wants to serve SUGMAD with the same patience, grace, and love that
      ECK Masters have shown her, teaching and helping her on her return to

      (Yes, bad unappreciative young man who dares to question, and doesn't
      to go to seminars & classes, we can see here that of course you are
      going to deserve a visit from Reb unless you go to these things. No,
      can NOT remain a good member "on the inner". You can have all the
      "ecksperiences" and "spiritual freedom" you want, as long as you
      seminars and classes. )


      Okay, Jackie, you said:

      > > > Besides, being an ECKist does not mean you have to be active on
      > > > outer. IMO living the live of ECK is a personal one and can be
      > > > privately. Many people step aside from the outer organizational
      > > > activities and just do their own "thing". That's ok too.

      I think this discourse makes it quite clear that you're opinion is
      in line with the high-vibe Word of THE ECK by Harold Klemp, the
      the Living ECK Master, in the members-only discourses.

      I could also post tons of quotes from both the public and "private"
      discourses & publications showing how you *do* need to be active on
      "outer" to achieve true "success" in the cult. In other words, it's
      path of god-realization through recruiting new members. This began
      Twitch in his early discourses "Letters to a Chela" *and* "Wisdom
      to mention just two.

      Whoops....I didn't include "This Month's Exercise" at the end of the
      discourse. I'll post it too, just in case you want to say that's
      you got your ideas from:

      "Your spiritual exercise for this month begins with reading a passage
      Stranger by the River. Open the book at will. Read wherever the page
      opens, because the Mahanta has a special message for you there.

      Put yourself in the shoes of the seeker. Feel his passion for God.

      Just now, for example, the page broke open at these words from Rebazar
      the seeker and his beloved. They are from "The Trembling of a Star,"
      of my favorite chapters:

      "If ye walk the middle path of understanding, ye will arrive at the
      end of
      the worldly wheel of birth and death, and be like the star that
      trembles in
      the sky of this early morning, or the river that flows between the
      and down through the valley to empty into the sea!"

      Until next time,

      With love and affection,


      That reminds me, someone auctioning off SBTR at E-bay commented that
      it was
      plagiarized from Steinbeck, and I need to check into that more.

      > >
      > > "In the same way that one serves the ECK by putting the name
      forward in
      > > signs, bumper stickers, T-shirts, jewelry, etc., and makes the
      > > common, so too can those serve who have only money to give and
      > > go about actively." (Letters to a Chela, another secret holy
      > > members-only discourse series, see
      > ><http://www.delphiforums.com/eckankartruth>) NOTE: correct URL is:
      > > <http://forums.delphiforums.com/eckankartruth> !!

      Yeah, this link doesn't work. They're making changes at Delphi, and I
      think they want you to register & sign in before you can get to any of
      forums. Well...I'll have to do something else. If anyone wants to
      LC, you can do an advanced Google group search and simply put "Letters
      to a
      Chela" in the "subject" line, and "alt.religion.eckankar" in the
      line, and you'll get 'em. Ditto with "Wisdom Notes".



      > "Sharon2000" <brighttigr...@...> wrote in message
      > >
      > > Let's use a recent occurrence right here at a.r.e. to demonstrate
      > > cult's "inner". I recently had a brief exchange with Jackie, who
      > > someone it's okay to be a member and not "do" the "outer" stuff.
      > > posted a whole discourse where Klemp makes it quite clear the
      > > and seminars *are* necessary to have "ecksperiences", where he
      blasts a
      > > young man who dared to question Rebizarre's age, and lambastes him
      > > thoroughly for wanting to be a member "on the inner" and not go to
      > > classes and seminars.
      > >
      > > Jackie not only refused to discuss the discourses, and explain how
      > > got such a contradictory "message" from this discourse...she also
      > > a silly paranoid little comment about how she wasn't going to let
      > > "lure" her into discussing the discourses! Sort of like...the Big
      > > Kal Agent was trying to get her to sin or something! <ggg>
      > >


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