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Why do people see Rebazar?

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  • tomleafeater
    Over at a.r.e., there has been some discussion about the non- existence of Rebazar Tarz, Eckankar s mountain man who is said to habituate the icy pennacles of
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 29, 2006
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      Over at a.r.e., there has been some discussion about the non-
      existence of Rebazar Tarz, Eckankar's mountain man who is said to
      habituate the icy pennacles of the Hindu Kush range in his bare feat.
      As Garland Peck at a.r.e. has put it, Rebazar is missing! In his
      writings, Twitchell began to substitute Rebazar Tarz in place of
      Kirpal Singh, the Rhaoda Soami master Twitchell once called his
      personal guru. Twitchell had a fallout with the guru and subsequently
      went through his manuscripts, substituting Rebazar in places where
      Kirpal was mentioned.

      In Dialogues with a Master, Twitchell has an encounter with Rebazar
      who visits him in his 'light body' and inexplicably uses Rebazar as a
      puppet to speak the words written by Julian Johnson (a Kirpal
      follower), as found in JJ's book, 'Paths of the Master.'

      Which of course, begs the question, that if Rebazar is real, why put
      Kirpal's name in manuscripts prior to substituting Rebazar's name,
      and why dangle Rebazar as a marrionette parroting the words of Julian
      J. Can't Reb speak for himself?

      For those who've read of the plethora of other shenanigans
      perpetrated by PT, the answer is obvious: Rebazar doesn't exist.

      So why do Eckists not only see Rebazar in 'inner experiences' but
      have full length conversations with him? Has anyone here had an
      experience with Rebazar? What do you think is the basis of such
      experiences? Eckists point to these experiences as the answer to
      critics. In their minds, it is the ultimate way of deflating the
      arguments that Rebazar isn't real. (I thought this would be a useful
      discussion...)

      Thoughts...?

      Spring Leaf
    • al_radzik
      I found an old post of mine in the archives of Gurgle: My Dear Devotees, It is my sad duty to inform you that I have left the fold of ECKANKAR! I have had it
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 29, 2006
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        I found an old post of mine in the archives of Gurgle:

        My Dear Devotees,
        It is my sad duty to inform you that I have left the fold of
        ECKANKAR! I have had it living in the cold, desolate Far Country;
        shivering in sub-zero weather; drinking buttered yak tea without a
        tv, radio or even a CD player!! Of course I will remember the good
        old days when Paul's Tuza would come to my leaky shack to shoot the
        crap about spiritual stuff but lately, I've been sick and tired of
        hanging out up here missing all the fun!! I mean, first it's Paul
        with his cushy home in California; then that jazz player...what's his
        name...Dap Ren (Stimpy's buddy) buying planes and screwing broads and
        oh shit..the list is endless!! Now it's that skinny German guy with
        the sheep's voice who's got a problem with the power lines around
        his house!!! I'm telling you..I've had it!!! Eckankar ain't what it
        used to be. Just the other day, me Fubbi, and Gopal were down at the
        Ocean Of Love and Mercy talkin'...I mean REALLY talkin' about things.
        Fubbi left his Temple and bought a condo in Fort Meyers...He's tired
        of guiding souls and making appearances at satangs anymore...he says
        to me "Reb, ya' gotta start fresh, the Earth folks ain't buying this
        horeshit anymore since Reagan came into power!" He's got himself a
        young broad now and making a nice living running a bowling
        alley!! "I'm happy now...no pressure!!" he says as he stomps out his
        cigar. And Gopal, who I thought NEVER would have left..
        He's already got a nice little congregation in Skippack, Pennsylvania
        now, preaching the word of Jesus. He says with a grin "I'm telling
        you guys...this IS the real thing..a little white church...a hundred
        or so Christians...little old ladies baking me cakes every
        Saturday...I'm in Heaven!!!"
        So I just bought a computer and logged into the best "light and
        sound" this side of the Anami Lok!!! I'm still a little shaky, but
        I'll get the hang of it... By the way, everyone, Paul is nowhere to
        be found!!!! Ain't that weird!!!


        Rebazar Tarzs


        May the Blessings be in some babe's lap holding a martini and
        watching the Bulls!!




        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Over at a.r.e., there has been some discussion about the non-
        > existence of Rebazar Tarz, Eckankar's mountain man who is said to
        > habituate the icy pennacles of the Hindu Kush range in his bare
        feat.
        > As Garland Peck at a.r.e. has put it, Rebazar is missing! In his
        > writings, Twitchell began to substitute Rebazar Tarz in place of
        > Kirpal Singh, the Rhaoda Soami master Twitchell once called his
        > personal guru. Twitchell had a fallout with the guru and
        subsequently
        > went through his manuscripts, substituting Rebazar in places where
        > Kirpal was mentioned.
        >
        > In Dialogues with a Master, Twitchell has an encounter with Rebazar
        > who visits him in his 'light body' and inexplicably uses Rebazar as
        a
        > puppet to speak the words written by Julian Johnson (a Kirpal
        > follower), as found in JJ's book, 'Paths of the Master.'
        >
        > Which of course, begs the question, that if Rebazar is real, why
        put
        > Kirpal's name in manuscripts prior to substituting Rebazar's name,
        > and why dangle Rebazar as a marrionette parroting the words of
        Julian
        > J. Can't Reb speak for himself?
        >
        > For those who've read of the plethora of other shenanigans
        > perpetrated by PT, the answer is obvious: Rebazar doesn't exist.
        >
        > So why do Eckists not only see Rebazar in 'inner experiences' but
        > have full length conversations with him? Has anyone here had an
        > experience with Rebazar? What do you think is the basis of such
        > experiences? Eckists point to these experiences as the answer to
        > critics. In their minds, it is the ultimate way of deflating the
        > arguments that Rebazar isn't real. (I thought this would be a
        useful
        > discussion...)
        >
        > Thoughts...?
        >
        > Spring Leaf
        >
      • ewickings@aol.com
        In a message dated 3/29/2006 12:57:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... have full length conversations with him? Has anyone here had an experience with
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 29, 2006
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          In a message dated 3/29/2006 12:57:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tianyue@... writes:
          >So why do Eckists not only see Rebazar in 'inner experiences' but
          have full length conversations with him? Has anyone here had an
          experience with Rebazar? What do you think is the basis of such
          experiences? Eckists point to these experiences as the answer to
          critics. In their minds, it is the ultimate way of deflating the
          arguments that Rebazar isn't real. (I thought this would be a useful
          discussion...)

          Thoughts...?

          Spring Leaf

           
          Probably for the same reason why I had a real life dream experience with Harold last night. He was dressed in his blue leisure suit, with that big toothy grin of his.  I won't bother with explaining the contents of the dream, other than we stood face to face, he gave me his opinion (Godman of the Universe direction) on something I am dealing with.  I thanked him from the bottom of my heart, but no thanks,  as I put my hands on his shoulders and moved him off to my left so I could pass by.  He seemed so much shorter than I recall. 
           
          To me this is just proof that I am spending way too much time dwelling on the subject of eckankar!  Not to mention I subconsciously took Harold out of my space and left him behind in my dream!  And no, it isn't a sign the Mahanta / LEM  is willing to take me back into his loving protection!
           
          Would love to hear other peoples take on this too!  Maybe some of the lurkers will post so those of us that post a lot, can take a break?  Wouldn't that be nice.  ;-)  
        • John Grunwell
          ... Beyond the fact that the names Twitchell coined for his supposed spritiual masters all sound like ridiculous rejects from George Lucas. Do these names
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 29, 2006
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            >In their minds, it is the ultimate way of deflating the arguments that
            >Rebazar isn't real. (I thought >this would be a useful discussion...)

            Beyond the fact that the names Twitchell coined for his supposed spritiual
            masters all sound like ridiculous rejects from George Lucas. Do these names
            even linguistically similar to names of other known individuals who hailed
            from the same regions they're said to have inhabited? I'm a great lover of
            world culture, with a degree in athropology, and I can often guess the
            origins of names based on a broad cross-section of experience and knowledge,
            and nary a single ECK name has the ring of authenticity to me.

            Has anyone on this list read Dr. Rick Strassman's *The Spirit Molecule*? It
            goes quite far in positing a reasonable mechanism through which humans can
            have exotic, astral-projecting sorts of experiences that on the surface has
            very little to do with teh supposed soul. It's something that's good to
            keep in mind when folks spiritiual beliefs are based on subjective, personal
            experiences.
          • eyesopen444
            al_radzik wrote: I found an old post of mine in the archives of Gurgle: My Dear Devotees, It is my sad duty to inform you that I have left the fold of
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 29, 2006
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              al_radzik wrote:

              I found an old post of mine in the archives of Gurgle:

              My Dear Devotees, It is my sad duty to inform you that I have left the
              fold of ECKANKAR! I have had it living in the cold, desolate Far
              Country; shivering in sub-zero weather; drinking buttered yak tea
              without a tv, radio or even a CD player!! Of course I will remember
              the good old days when Paul's Tuza would come to my leaky shack to
              shoot the crap about spiritual stuff but lately, I've been sick and
              tired of hanging out up here missing all the fun!! I mean, first it's
              Paul with his cushy home in California; then that jazz player...what's
              his name...Dap Ren (Stimpy's buddy) buying planes and screwing broads
              and oh shit..the list is endless!! Now it's that skinny German guy
              with the sheep's voice who's got a problem with the power lines around
              his house!!! I'm telling you..I've had it!!! Eckankar ain't what it
              used to be. Just the other day, me Fubbi, and Gopal were down at the
              Ocean Of Love and Mercy talkin'...I mean REALLY talkin' about things.
              Fubbi left his Temple and bought a condo in Fort Meyers...He's tired
              of guiding souls and making appearances at satangs anymore...he says
              to me "Reb, ya' gotta start fresh, the Earth folks ain't buying this
              horeshit anymore since Reagan came into power!" He's got himself a
              young broad now and making a nice living running a bowling alley!!
              "I'm happy now...no pressure!!" he says as he stomps out his cigar.
              And Gopal, who I thought NEVER would have left.. He's already got a
              nice little congregation in Skippack, Pennsylvania now, preaching the
              word of Jesus. He says with a grin "I'm telling you guys...this IS the
              real thing..a little white church...a hundred or so
              Christians...little old ladies baking me cakes every Saturday...I'm in
              Heaven!!!" So I just bought a computer and logged into the best "

              ME: Al this line is the BEST!! Luv it.

              Now it's that skinny German guy with the sheep's voice who's got a
              problem with the power lines around his house!!!

              Remember that kid's movie "Babe"? The cute little pig had to get the
              SECRET WORD from the old ewe so that he could talk to the sheep.
              Maybe it was from ekult for animals-BAAA RAAAMMM EEEWWWWEEE!!!!!

              Have fun!

              Kaye
            • eyesopen444
              Hi everyone, I m not sure why this didn t go through the first time but I m trying this again. al_radzik wrote: I found an old post of mine in the archives of
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 29, 2006
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                Hi everyone,

                I'm not sure why this didn't go through the first time but I'm trying
                this again.

                al_radzik wrote:

                I found an old post of mine in the archives of Gurgle:

                My Dear Devotees, It is my sad duty to inform you that I have left the
                fold of ECKANKAR! I have had it living in the cold, desolate Far
                Country; shivering in sub-zero weather; drinking buttered yak tea
                without a tv, radio or even a CD player!! Of course I will remember
                the good old days when Paul's Tuza would come to my leaky shack to
                shoot the crap about spiritual stuff but lately, I've been sick and
                tired of hanging out up here missing all the fun!! I mean, first it's
                Paul with his cushy home in California; then that jazz player...what's
                his name...Dap Ren (Stimpy's buddy) buying planes and screwing broads
                and oh shit..the list is endless!! Now it's that skinny German guy
                with the sheep's voice who's got a problem with the power lines around
                his house!!! I'm telling you..I've had it!!! Eckankar ain't what it
                used to be.

                Me: Al, well said! : Now it's that skinny German guy with the sheep's
                voice who's got a problem with the power lines around his house!!!

                Remember that kid's movie, "BABE" about the cute little pig who had to
                get the SECRET WORD from the old ewe so that he could talk to the
                other sheep? Maybe it was ekult for animals BAAAA RAAAMMM EEEWWWEEE!!

                Have fun!

                Kaye
              • iam999freedom
                I would like to share a series of experiences that I had many years ago when I was 12 years old. This was in 1965 before there were any Eckankar centres in my
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 29, 2006
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                  I would like to share a series of experiences that I had many years
                  ago when I was 12 years old. This was in 1965 before there were any
                  Eckankar centres in my area or perhaps none anywhere at that time.

                  To make a long story short my parents were having marital discord and
                  one night I cried out to the universe in pain as to if there was a
                  God and what God was all about. I was met in waking conscouisness by
                  a man who I would later in life identify at an Eckankar centre as
                  Rebazar Tarzs. There is no question that the man and others such as
                  Gopal Das, Fubbi Quantz etc. who I met years previous in waking
                  dreams were the same individuals as the photos at the Eckankar centre.

                  Anyways, getting back to when I was a youth of 12 in a series of
                  experiences these individuals taught me about Karma, Reincarnation,
                  the spirtual laws, etc. It was what I needed to progress spiritually
                  as I was brought up as a Christian which never did answer to my
                  satisfaction the questions I had about life.

                  I believe that the reason I and others have experiences with beings
                  such as "Eck Masters" is because Spirit will teach us in such a way
                  as we are receptive to receive its Wisdom. It doesn't matter if the
                  teacher is Christ (who I was sceptical about and wasn't very
                  receptive to) or Krishna or green men from other planets or other
                  beings such as Rebazar Tarzs. It depends on our current state of
                  consciousness and what we need to progress spiritually. I happened to
                  be very receptive to RT and these other beings as they came with a
                  spirit of great compassion and wisdom. During the period of time I
                  had experiences with them both my inner and outer live flourished.

                  I did join Eckankar when I was 20 and remained as a member for 30
                  years before I left. I do not believe that Rebazar Tarzs exists in
                  the physical. Common sense would tell us otherwise for a variety of
                  reasons. However I do believe in his existence in the universal world
                  of beingness much in the same manner that other religous figures
                  exist according to the claims of some of their followers. Whether
                  they are truly real in another dimenson or whether they are an image
                  conjoured up in the spiritual imagination of the universe for lack of
                  a better term is a matter of interest but I don't feel it's
                  necessarily that important.

                  Any other thoughts?,

                  I am Freeedom.



                  - In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I found an old post of mine in the archives of Gurgle:
                  >
                  > My Dear Devotees,
                  > It is my sad duty to inform you that I have left the fold of
                  > ECKANKAR! I have had it living in the cold, desolate Far Country;
                  > shivering in sub-zero weather; drinking buttered yak tea without a
                  > tv, radio or even a CD player!! Of course I will remember the good
                  > old days when Paul's Tuza would come to my leaky shack to shoot the
                  > crap about spiritual stuff but lately, I've been sick and tired of
                  > hanging out up here missing all the fun!! I mean, first it's Paul
                  > with his cushy home in California; then that jazz player...what's
                  his
                  > name...Dap Ren (Stimpy's buddy) buying planes and screwing broads
                  and
                  > oh shit..the list is endless!! Now it's that skinny German guy with
                  > the sheep's voice who's got a problem with the power lines around
                  > his house!!! I'm telling you..I've had it!!! Eckankar ain't what it
                  > used to be. Just the other day, me Fubbi, and Gopal were down at
                  the
                  > Ocean Of Love and Mercy talkin'...I mean REALLY talkin' about
                  things.
                  > Fubbi left his Temple and bought a condo in Fort Meyers...He's
                  tired
                  > of guiding souls and making appearances at satangs anymore...he
                  says
                  > to me "Reb, ya' gotta start fresh, the Earth folks ain't buying
                  this
                  > horeshit anymore since Reagan came into power!" He's got himself a
                  > young broad now and making a nice living running a bowling
                  > alley!! "I'm happy now...no pressure!!" he says as he stomps out
                  his
                  > cigar. And Gopal, who I thought NEVER would have left..
                  > He's already got a nice little congregation in Skippack,
                  Pennsylvania
                  > now, preaching the word of Jesus. He says with a grin "I'm telling
                  > you guys...this IS the real thing..a little white church...a
                  hundred
                  > or so Christians...little old ladies baking me cakes every
                  > Saturday...I'm in Heaven!!!"
                  > So I just bought a computer and logged into the best "light and
                  > sound" this side of the Anami Lok!!! I'm still a little shaky, but
                  > I'll get the hang of it... By the way, everyone, Paul is nowhere to
                  > be found!!!! Ain't that weird!!!
                  >
                  >
                  > Rebazar Tarzs
                  >
                  >
                  > May the Blessings be in some babe's lap holding a martini and
                  > watching the Bulls!!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Over at a.r.e., there has been some discussion about the non-
                  > > existence of Rebazar Tarz, Eckankar's mountain man who is said to
                  > > habituate the icy pennacles of the Hindu Kush range in his bare
                  > feat.
                  > > As Garland Peck at a.r.e. has put it, Rebazar is missing! In his
                  > > writings, Twitchell began to substitute Rebazar Tarz in place of
                  > > Kirpal Singh, the Rhaoda Soami master Twitchell once called his
                  > > personal guru. Twitchell had a fallout with the guru and
                  > subsequently
                  > > went through his manuscripts, substituting Rebazar in places
                  where
                  > > Kirpal was mentioned.
                  > >
                  > > In Dialogues with a Master, Twitchell has an encounter with
                  Rebazar
                  > > who visits him in his 'light body' and inexplicably uses Rebazar
                  as
                  > a
                  > > puppet to speak the words written by Julian Johnson (a Kirpal
                  > > follower), as found in JJ's book, 'Paths of the Master.'
                  > >
                  > > Which of course, begs the question, that if Rebazar is real, why
                  > put
                  > > Kirpal's name in manuscripts prior to substituting Rebazar's
                  name,
                  > > and why dangle Rebazar as a marrionette parroting the words of
                  > Julian
                  > > J. Can't Reb speak for himself?
                  > >
                  > > For those who've read of the plethora of other shenanigans
                  > > perpetrated by PT, the answer is obvious: Rebazar doesn't exist.
                  > >
                  > > So why do Eckists not only see Rebazar in 'inner experiences' but
                  > > have full length conversations with him? Has anyone here had an
                  > > experience with Rebazar? What do you think is the basis of such
                  > > experiences? Eckists point to these experiences as the answer to
                  > > critics. In their minds, it is the ultimate way of deflating the
                  > > arguments that Rebazar isn't real. (I thought this would be a
                  > useful
                  > > discussion...)
                  > >
                  > > Thoughts...?
                  > >
                  > > Spring Leaf
                  > >
                  >
                • Ganesh622@cs.com
                  didn t I hear somewhere that Rebazar s portrait was based on Burt Reynolds?
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 30, 2006
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                    didn't I hear somewhere that Rebazar's portrait was based on Burt Reynolds?
                  • ewickings@aol.com
                    In a message dated 3/30/2006 7:36:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Ganesh622@cs.com writes: didn t I hear somewhere that Rebazar s portrait was based on Burt
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 30, 2006
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                      In a message dated 3/30/2006 7:36:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Ganesh622@... writes:
                      didn't I hear somewhere that Rebazar's portrait was based on Burt Reynolds?
                       
                      LOL  well you heard correctly.  Apparently Diana Stanley had a crush on Burt and made Rubber Tires in his image, among others, her own brother (according to him) is one of the Masters too....
                    • tomleafeater
                      ... arguments that ... discussion...) ... supposed spritiual ... Do these names ... who hailed ... great lover of ... guess the ... experience and knowledge,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 30, 2006
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                        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "John Grunwell"
                        <mahajohn@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >In their minds, it is the ultimate way of deflating the
                        arguments that
                        > >Rebazar isn't real. (I thought >this would be a useful
                        discussion...)
                        >
                        > Beyond the fact that the names Twitchell coined for his
                        supposed spritiual
                        > masters all sound like ridiculous rejects from George Lucas.
                        Do these names
                        > even linguistically similar to names of other known individuals
                        who hailed
                        > from the same regions they're said to have inhabited? I'm a
                        great lover of
                        > world culture, with a degree in athropology, and I can often
                        guess the
                        > origins of names based on a broad cross-section of
                        experience and knowledge,
                        > and nary a single ECK name has the ring of authenticity to me.
                        >

                        I'd noticed the fake sounding names myself, even as an eckist.
                        The funny thing is, I ignored my own interrnal alarms that
                        something was amiss. I wanted to believe in my nice little path
                        I'd found, so I pushed my observations and critical thinking to the
                        background, even to the subconscious, and went on as if I'd not
                        noticed anything was wrong with PT's scheme.

                        Take Lai Tsi. It always seemed to me, even as an eckist, that PT
                        took the name Lao Tzu (legendary author of Tao Te Ching),
                        dropped the last letter in each syllable, and then added an 'i' in
                        place. There are scores of such examples. Lane pointed out
                        something that has a ring of plausibility to the origins of Rebazar.
                        PT lived in Imperial Beach, which is on California's border to
                        Mexico. Just a stone's throw across the border are street signs
                        which read, 'no rebasar,' which means, 'no passing.' Twitchel,
                        in his search for names, easily could have seen the signs.



                        > Has anyone on this list read Dr. Rick Strassman's *The Spirit
                        Molecule*? It
                        > goes quite far in positing a reasonable mechanism through
                        which humans can
                        > have exotic, astral-projecting sorts of experiences that on the
                        surface has
                        > very little to do with teh supposed soul. It's something that's
                        good to
                        > keep in mind when folks spiritiual beliefs are based on
                        subjective, personal
                        > experiences.
                        >

                        Haven't read it, but there have been many articles in journals
                        lately about similar research. There is also a lobe of the brain
                        that can produce feelings of religiosity and a sense of morality.
                        When overstimulated, people become self rightious and
                        sanctimonious.

                        I also think there are people who are much more suggestible
                        than average, and even average people are suggestible, it
                        seems. If the religious follower is a willing participant in eagerly
                        consuming and ingesting the group's suggestions, it may be a
                        form of auto-hypnosis. This is different than brainwashing, in that
                        it is the individual strongly suggesting to himself/herself to see,
                        for example, Rebazar. Keep visualizing Rebazar everyday, and
                        peering into the screen for his image, and chanting a mantra
                        while doing this, and you're bound to mesmerize yourself into
                        have a Rebazar experience, whether he exists or not., just as
                        one may have a nice encounter with Marylan Monroe if one
                        wishes to induce a dream experience with her.

                        I have a book on lucid dreaming which offers this as an example
                        exercise, that is, to imagine Marylan Monroe before going to
                        sleep every night for weeks, until one actually has lucid dreams
                        of Marylan. According to the authors, one can induce in the form
                        of lucid dreams any experience one wishes, including meeting
                        FICTIONAL characters, simply by using the exercises in the
                        book. Sound familar?

                        Eckists want to have experiences because the peer group is
                        having experiences. In other words, there is peer pressure to
                        have experiences. After years of this, it is no wonder that,
                        coupled with exercises designed to induce experiences by auto
                        suggestion (auto-hypnosis) people have nearly any experience
                        they want.

                        Having the experience reinforces their belief in the group,
                        because now they have what seems to them to be a rational
                        basis to substantiate their beliefs .

                        Leaf
                      • Christy
                        Ahhh, makes sense: I d noticed the fake sounding names myself, even as an eckist. ... the ... Eckists want to have experiences because the peer group is
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 30, 2006
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                          Ahhh, makes sense:


                          I'd noticed the fake sounding names myself, even as an eckist.
                          > The funny thing is, I ignored my own interrnal alarms that
                          > something was amiss. I wanted to believe in my nice little path
                          > I'd found, so I pushed my observations and critical thinking to
                          the
                          > background, even to the subconscious, and went on as if I'd not
                          > noticed anything was wrong with PT's scheme.

                          Eckists want to have experiences because the peer group is
                          > having experiences. In other words, there is peer pressure to
                          > have experiences. After years of this, it is no wonder that,
                          > coupled with exercises designed to induce experiences by auto
                          > suggestion (auto-hypnosis) people have nearly any experience
                          > they want.
                          >
                          > Having the experience reinforces their belief in the group,
                          > because now they have what seems to them to be a rational
                          > basis to substantiate their beliefs .
                          >
                        • al_radzik
                          So why did you quit Eckankar? ... and ... by ... centre. ... spiritually ... to ... world ... image ... of ... a ... good ... the ... of ... with ... it ... a
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 31, 2006
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                            So why did you quit Eckankar?



                            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "iam999freedom"
                            <iam999freedom@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I would like to share a series of experiences that I had many years
                            > ago when I was 12 years old. This was in 1965 before there were any
                            > Eckankar centres in my area or perhaps none anywhere at that time.
                            >
                            > To make a long story short my parents were having marital discord
                            and
                            > one night I cried out to the universe in pain as to if there was a
                            > God and what God was all about. I was met in waking conscouisness
                            by
                            > a man who I would later in life identify at an Eckankar centre as
                            > Rebazar Tarzs. There is no question that the man and others such as
                            > Gopal Das, Fubbi Quantz etc. who I met years previous in waking
                            > dreams were the same individuals as the photos at the Eckankar
                            centre.
                            >
                            > Anyways, getting back to when I was a youth of 12 in a series of
                            > experiences these individuals taught me about Karma, Reincarnation,
                            > the spirtual laws, etc. It was what I needed to progress
                            spiritually
                            > as I was brought up as a Christian which never did answer to my
                            > satisfaction the questions I had about life.
                            >
                            > I believe that the reason I and others have experiences with beings
                            > such as "Eck Masters" is because Spirit will teach us in such a way
                            > as we are receptive to receive its Wisdom. It doesn't matter if the
                            > teacher is Christ (who I was sceptical about and wasn't very
                            > receptive to) or Krishna or green men from other planets or other
                            > beings such as Rebazar Tarzs. It depends on our current state of
                            > consciousness and what we need to progress spiritually. I happened
                            to
                            > be very receptive to RT and these other beings as they came with a
                            > spirit of great compassion and wisdom. During the period of time I
                            > had experiences with them both my inner and outer live flourished.
                            >
                            > I did join Eckankar when I was 20 and remained as a member for 30
                            > years before I left. I do not believe that Rebazar Tarzs exists in
                            > the physical. Common sense would tell us otherwise for a variety of
                            > reasons. However I do believe in his existence in the universal
                            world
                            > of beingness much in the same manner that other religous figures
                            > exist according to the claims of some of their followers. Whether
                            > they are truly real in another dimenson or whether they are an
                            image
                            > conjoured up in the spiritual imagination of the universe for lack
                            of
                            > a better term is a matter of interest but I don't feel it's
                            > necessarily that important.
                            >
                            > Any other thoughts?,
                            >
                            > I am Freeedom.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > - In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I found an old post of mine in the archives of Gurgle:
                            > >
                            > > My Dear Devotees,
                            > > It is my sad duty to inform you that I have left the fold of
                            > > ECKANKAR! I have had it living in the cold, desolate Far Country;
                            > > shivering in sub-zero weather; drinking buttered yak tea without
                            a
                            > > tv, radio or even a CD player!! Of course I will remember the
                            good
                            > > old days when Paul's Tuza would come to my leaky shack to shoot
                            the
                            > > crap about spiritual stuff but lately, I've been sick and tired
                            of
                            > > hanging out up here missing all the fun!! I mean, first it's Paul
                            > > with his cushy home in California; then that jazz player...what's
                            > his
                            > > name...Dap Ren (Stimpy's buddy) buying planes and screwing broads
                            > and
                            > > oh shit..the list is endless!! Now it's that skinny German guy
                            with
                            > > the sheep's voice who's got a problem with the power lines around
                            > > his house!!! I'm telling you..I've had it!!! Eckankar ain't what
                            it
                            > > used to be. Just the other day, me Fubbi, and Gopal were down at
                            > the
                            > > Ocean Of Love and Mercy talkin'...I mean REALLY talkin' about
                            > things.
                            > > Fubbi left his Temple and bought a condo in Fort Meyers...He's
                            > tired
                            > > of guiding souls and making appearances at satangs anymore...he
                            > says
                            > > to me "Reb, ya' gotta start fresh, the Earth folks ain't buying
                            > this
                            > > horeshit anymore since Reagan came into power!" He's got himself
                            a
                            > > young broad now and making a nice living running a bowling
                            > > alley!! "I'm happy now...no pressure!!" he says as he stomps out
                            > his
                            > > cigar. And Gopal, who I thought NEVER would have left..
                            > > He's already got a nice little congregation in Skippack,
                            > Pennsylvania
                            > > now, preaching the word of Jesus. He says with a grin "I'm
                            telling
                            > > you guys...this IS the real thing..a little white church...a
                            > hundred
                            > > or so Christians...little old ladies baking me cakes every
                            > > Saturday...I'm in Heaven!!!"
                            > > So I just bought a computer and logged into the best "light and
                            > > sound" this side of the Anami Lok!!! I'm still a little shaky,
                            but
                            > > I'll get the hang of it... By the way, everyone, Paul is nowhere
                            to
                            > > be found!!!! Ain't that weird!!!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Rebazar Tarzs
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > May the Blessings be in some babe's lap holding a martini and
                            > > watching the Bulls!!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Over at a.r.e., there has been some discussion about the non-
                            > > > existence of Rebazar Tarz, Eckankar's mountain man who is said
                            to
                            > > > habituate the icy pennacles of the Hindu Kush range in his bare
                            > > feat.
                            > > > As Garland Peck at a.r.e. has put it, Rebazar is missing! In
                            his
                            > > > writings, Twitchell began to substitute Rebazar Tarz in place
                            of
                            > > > Kirpal Singh, the Rhaoda Soami master Twitchell once called his
                            > > > personal guru. Twitchell had a fallout with the guru and
                            > > subsequently
                            > > > went through his manuscripts, substituting Rebazar in places
                            > where
                            > > > Kirpal was mentioned.
                            > > >
                            > > > In Dialogues with a Master, Twitchell has an encounter with
                            > Rebazar
                            > > > who visits him in his 'light body' and inexplicably uses
                            Rebazar
                            > as
                            > > a
                            > > > puppet to speak the words written by Julian Johnson (a Kirpal
                            > > > follower), as found in JJ's book, 'Paths of the Master.'
                            > > >
                            > > > Which of course, begs the question, that if Rebazar is real,
                            why
                            > > put
                            > > > Kirpal's name in manuscripts prior to substituting Rebazar's
                            > name,
                            > > > and why dangle Rebazar as a marrionette parroting the words of
                            > > Julian
                            > > > J. Can't Reb speak for himself?
                            > > >
                            > > > For those who've read of the plethora of other shenanigans
                            > > > perpetrated by PT, the answer is obvious: Rebazar doesn't exist.
                            > > >
                            > > > So why do Eckists not only see Rebazar in 'inner experiences'
                            but
                            > > > have full length conversations with him? Has anyone here had an
                            > > > experience with Rebazar? What do you think is the basis of such
                            > > > experiences? Eckists point to these experiences as the answer
                            to
                            > > > critics. In their minds, it is the ultimate way of deflating
                            the
                            > > > arguments that Rebazar isn't real. (I thought this would be a
                            > > useful
                            > > > discussion...)
                            > > >
                            > > > Thoughts...?
                            > > >
                            > > > Spring Leaf
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • tomleafeater
                            ... wrote: ... and ... by ... centre. ... I do not believe that Rebazar Tarzs
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 31, 2006
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                              --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "iam999freedom"
                              <iam999freedom@...> wrote:

                              <snipped for the sake of brevity>

                              > To make a long story short my parents were having marital discord
                              and
                              > one night I cried out to the universe in pain as to if there was a
                              > God and what God was all about. I was met in waking conscouisness
                              by
                              > a man who I would later in life identify at an Eckankar centre as
                              > Rebazar Tarzs. There is no question that the man and others such as
                              > Gopal Das, Fubbi Quantz etc. who I met years previous in waking
                              > dreams were the same individuals as the photos at the Eckankar
                              centre.
                              >
                              <snipped for brevity>

                              I do not believe that Rebazar Tarzs exists in
                              > the physical. Common sense would tell us otherwise for a variety of
                              > reasons. However I do believe in his existence in the universal
                              world
                              > of beingness much in the same manner that other religous figures
                              > exist according to the claims of some of their followers. Whether
                              > they are truly real in another dimenson or whether they are an
                              image
                              > conjoured up in the spiritual imagination of the universe for lack
                              of
                              > a better term is a matter of interest but I don't feel it's
                              > necessarily that important.
                              >
                              > Any other thoughts?,
                              >
                              > I am Freeedom.


                              The following is a post I made many years ago on A.R.E. as a rebuttal
                              to Eckists claims of seeing Rebazar, and it is a fitting response to
                              your post. It agrees with your view to some extent, but with
                              reservations. I am a little more skeptical now then I was at the
                              time I wrote this, which illustrates how people can change as they
                              have time to reflect, but I essentially still agree with everything
                              I've written below. What I've realized a little better since writing
                              this is that rational people can often have what seem to be clear
                              recollections that are faulty, especially when there is a strong
                              motivation to not seriously question a fond memory with which one is
                              heavily identified. The human capacity to do this is amazing, in my
                              view. The truth is, the masters such as Rebazar and the 970 others of
                              the Vairagi Masters have been discredited, and are fabrications made
                              up from whole cloth. If people see these masters, there are many
                              explanations for the phenomenon.

                              My post from A.R.E.:

                              It is difficult to comment on the private subjective experiences of
                              another, for anyone can claim anything, and there is no way to either
                              authenticate such experiences or to disprove them.

                              In my own instance, I had an experience of Rebazar appearing in the
                              flesh. After the experience, I shared it with a number of chelas, and
                              there are probably folks out there in the world somewhere using my
                              story to validate Eckankar. In fact, a friend reminded me of it
                              recently in an attempt to authenticate Eckankar to me.

                              The experience I had was quite dramatic, and it was one I remember
                              quite well, though I'd had the experience a number of years ago. I
                              awakened one night to find Rebazar sitting on my bed. I sat up in bed
                              in the semi-darkness, and stared in wonder. He reached out, grasping
                              my forearm, and asked, "Am I real, now?" I felt his warm, solid hand
                              on my flesh. He disappeared and I went back to sleep. When I awoke in
                              the morning I remembered vividly the manifestation, and recounted it
                              for years afterward as a physical manifestation of a master. Many
                              years later, upon close review, I slowly began to realize,
                              reluctantly over a period of months, that it was only a very lucid
                              dream.

                              By the way, for those who have not bothered to read any studies of
                              lucid dreaming outside of Eckankar, one can self-induce a dream of
                              just about anything! If one wants to make love to Marilyn Monroe, one
                              can have the experience in the dream state, to give an example. If I
                              had been visualizing Marilyn in my nightly contemplations, I may have
                              seen her on my bed of instead of Rebazar! Hmmm.

                              The fact is, I had desperately wanted to see Rebazar Tarz, and
                              thought of it constantly. I pictured him in contemplations, and
                              called out inwardly to him at times to appear to me. I was 16, and
                              the thought of this took hold of me in a passionate way. So one day I
                              had an extremely lucid, self-induced dream. You know, one can sit up
                              in bed while remaining asleep, sort of like sleepwalking. The
                              experience was so vivid I immediately seized on it as being real, and
                              didn't question it for even a second. But I only know this now,
                              having stood back and reviewed the experience with a more detached
                              perspective. My experience was a dream after all.

                              Oh, I know there are those here who would think I did have an
                              authentic visitation from a master, and that I am now sadly doubting
                              theexperience. This is the trouble with such things. They are
                              entirely subjective, and there is no way to prove or deny them to
                              another. I know, however, from my own experience that people can
                              deceive themselves, and everyone else who is told the stories is
                              possibly deceived in the process, if they believe them. It becomes,
                              in a group of Eckists, a mutually reinforced delusion.

                              Now, there is another explanation, which I personally believe can
                              account for many such experiences: This explanation is that there
                              *are* beings on the "other side" of the veil, spiritual guides, or
                              formless beings of primordial consciousness, who possess the ability
                              to manifest in the form of any image held in their attention, and are
                              quite familiar with the need to appear as one whom the individual can
                              relate to in a cultural context. These beings do teach those to whom
                              they are assigned, and use methods that will help create acceptance
                              when necessary. I think such beings might even appear in an image or
                              form they know you have not yet encountered, but will encounter in
                              the future, as another possible tool of validation.

                              To read more about this possibility, read books such as Life After
                              Life : The Investigation of a Phenomenon--Survival of Bodily Death -
                              by Raymond A., Jr., M.D. Moody, Many Lives, Many Masters - by Brian
                              L. Weiss, and also Journey of Souls : Case Studies of Life Between
                              Lives - by Michael Duff Newton. If one has not yet read these popular
                              books, I highly recommend them. These authors (a physician,
                              psychiatrist, and psychologist, respectively) are more objective and
                              research-oriented in their approach than say, Harold Klemp. These
                              works do serve to lend substantiation to some of my comments, and can
                              help former and current members of eckankar who are looking for
                              alternative paradigms get a start on that road. Not that I accept
                              everything in these works as absolute fact, but they are, as I say, a
                              possible starting point for new contexts of understanding.

                              Leaf
                            • tomleafeater
                              ... a ... as ... of ... lack ... rebuttal ... to ... writing ... is ... of ... made ... either ... and ... bed ... grasping ... hand ... in ... it ... one ...
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 31, 2006
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                                --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "iam999freedom"
                                > <iam999freedom@> wrote:
                                >
                                > <snipped for the sake of brevity>
                                >
                                > > To make a long story short my parents were having marital discord
                                > and
                                > > one night I cried out to the universe in pain as to if there was
                                a
                                > > God and what God was all about. I was met in waking conscouisness
                                > by
                                > > a man who I would later in life identify at an Eckankar centre as
                                > > Rebazar Tarzs. There is no question that the man and others such
                                as
                                > > Gopal Das, Fubbi Quantz etc. who I met years previous in waking
                                > > dreams were the same individuals as the photos at the Eckankar
                                > centre.
                                > >
                                > <snipped for brevity>
                                >
                                > I do not believe that Rebazar Tarzs exists in
                                > > the physical. Common sense would tell us otherwise for a variety
                                of
                                > > reasons. However I do believe in his existence in the universal
                                > world
                                > > of beingness much in the same manner that other religous figures
                                > > exist according to the claims of some of their followers. Whether
                                > > they are truly real in another dimenson or whether they are an
                                > image
                                > > conjoured up in the spiritual imagination of the universe for
                                lack
                                > of
                                > > a better term is a matter of interest but I don't feel it's
                                > > necessarily that important.
                                > >
                                > > Any other thoughts?,
                                > >
                                > > I am Freeedom.
                                >
                                >
                                > The following is a post I made many years ago on A.R.E. as a
                                rebuttal
                                > to Eckists claims of seeing Rebazar, and it is a fitting response
                                to
                                > your post. It agrees with your view to some extent, but with
                                > reservations. I am a little more skeptical now then I was at the
                                > time I wrote this, which illustrates how people can change as they
                                > have time to reflect, but I essentially still agree with everything
                                > I've written below. What I've realized a little better since
                                writing
                                > this is that rational people can often have what seem to be clear
                                > recollections that are faulty, especially when there is a strong
                                > motivation to not seriously question a fond memory with which one
                                is
                                > heavily identified. The human capacity to do this is amazing, in my
                                > view. The truth is, the masters such as Rebazar and the 970 others
                                of
                                > the Vairagi Masters have been discredited, and are fabrications
                                made
                                > up from whole cloth. If people see these masters, there are many
                                > explanations for the phenomenon.
                                >
                                > My post from A.R.E.:
                                >
                                > It is difficult to comment on the private subjective experiences of
                                > another, for anyone can claim anything, and there is no way to
                                either
                                > authenticate such experiences or to disprove them.
                                >
                                > In my own instance, I had an experience of Rebazar appearing in the
                                > flesh. After the experience, I shared it with a number of chelas,
                                and
                                > there are probably folks out there in the world somewhere using my
                                > story to validate Eckankar. In fact, a friend reminded me of it
                                > recently in an attempt to authenticate Eckankar to me.
                                >
                                > The experience I had was quite dramatic, and it was one I remember
                                > quite well, though I'd had the experience a number of years ago. I
                                > awakened one night to find Rebazar sitting on my bed. I sat up in
                                bed
                                > in the semi-darkness, and stared in wonder. He reached out,
                                grasping
                                > my forearm, and asked, "Am I real, now?" I felt his warm, solid
                                hand
                                > on my flesh. He disappeared and I went back to sleep. When I awoke
                                in
                                > the morning I remembered vividly the manifestation, and recounted
                                it
                                > for years afterward as a physical manifestation of a master. Many
                                > years later, upon close review, I slowly began to realize,
                                > reluctantly over a period of months, that it was only a very lucid
                                > dream.
                                >
                                > By the way, for those who have not bothered to read any studies of
                                > lucid dreaming outside of Eckankar, one can self-induce a dream of
                                > just about anything! If one wants to make love to Marilyn Monroe,
                                one
                                > can have the experience in the dream state, to give an example. If
                                I
                                > had been visualizing Marilyn in my nightly contemplations, I may
                                have
                                > seen her on my bed of instead of Rebazar! Hmmm.
                                >
                                > The fact is, I had desperately wanted to see Rebazar Tarz, and
                                > thought of it constantly. I pictured him in contemplations, and
                                > called out inwardly to him at times to appear to me. I was 16, and
                                > the thought of this took hold of me in a passionate way. So one day
                                I
                                > had an extremely lucid, self-induced dream. You know, one can sit
                                up
                                > in bed while remaining asleep, sort of like sleepwalking. The
                                > experience was so vivid I immediately seized on it as being real,
                                and
                                > didn't question it for even a second. But I only know this now,
                                > having stood back and reviewed the experience with a more detached
                                > perspective. My experience was a dream after all.
                                >
                                > Oh, I know there are those here who would think I did have an
                                > authentic visitation from a master, and that I am now sadly
                                doubting
                                > theexperience. This is the trouble with such things. They are
                                > entirely subjective, and there is no way to prove or deny them to
                                > another. I know, however, from my own experience that people can
                                > deceive themselves, and everyone else who is told the stories is
                                > possibly deceived in the process, if they believe them. It becomes,
                                > in a group of Eckists, a mutually reinforced delusion.
                                >
                                > Now, there is another explanation, which I personally believe can
                                > account for many such experiences: This explanation is that there
                                > *are* beings on the "other side" of the veil, spiritual guides, or
                                > formless beings of primordial consciousness, who possess the
                                ability
                                > to manifest in the form of any image held in their attention, and
                                are
                                > quite familiar with the need to appear as one whom the individual
                                can
                                > relate to in a cultural context. These beings do teach those to
                                whom
                                > they are assigned, and use methods that will help create acceptance
                                > when necessary. I think such beings might even appear in an image
                                or
                                > form they know you have not yet encountered, but will encounter in
                                > the future, as another possible tool of validation.
                                >
                                > To read more about this possibility, read books such as Life After
                                > Life : The Investigation of a Phenomenon--Survival of Bodily Death -

                                > by Raymond A., Jr., M.D. Moody, Many Lives, Many Masters - by Brian
                                > L. Weiss, and also Journey of Souls : Case Studies of Life Between
                                > Lives - by Michael Duff Newton. If one has not yet read these
                                popular
                                > books, I highly recommend them. These authors (a physician,
                                > psychiatrist, and psychologist, respectively) are more objective
                                and
                                > research-oriented in their approach than say, Harold Klemp. These
                                > works do serve to lend substantiation to some of my comments, and
                                can
                                > help former and current members of eckankar who are looking for
                                > alternative paradigms get a start on that road. Not that I accept
                                > everything in these works as absolute fact, but they are, as I say,
                                a
                                > possible starting point for new contexts of understanding.
                                >
                                > Leaf
                                >

                                For clarification, I'm not claiming my own dream that was recounted
                                could have been a real visitation, for it is clear it was just a
                                dream I wanted to have. I was very young, very impressionable, and
                                simply self-induced a dream experience. I'm merely open to the notion
                                that there could be other explanations for others' dreams. What is
                                important is to realize there is a difference between some formless
                                being communicating with you in a certain form that you see, and a
                                concocted master being used to promote a fraudualent path. That's
                                where I draw the line. They very well could become confused in one's
                                mind. Maybe I'll post another from a.r.e. that expresses this view of
                                concocted masters--a little different pespective, with a stronger
                                tone.

                                Leaf
                              • iam999freedom
                                By the way Al I really enjoyed your satire of Rebazar and the guys. I think it they are real beings they would find it hilarious too! To answer your question
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 31, 2006
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                                  By the way Al I really enjoyed your satire of Rebazar and the guys. I
                                  think it they are real beings they would find it hilarious too! To
                                  answer your question of why I left Eckankar:

                                  I just couldn't be a part of a path that curses its members if they
                                  decide to leave. It goes contrary to the values I hold dearest which
                                  are freedom of choice and self responsibility. Let's get serious here
                                  for a second. Eckankar is supposed to be a path of Love. The threats
                                  and curses are religious type control tactics. The threats themselves
                                  merely through the power of suggestion have caused some people
                                  considerable anguish and I'm sure even driven others to suicide. What
                                  kind of love is it that curses a person for wanting to explore other
                                  options in life? It is part of the learning and growing process to
                                  want to explore when one is not satisified with what they are
                                  involved in.

                                  I thought there was a tendency for Eckists too become too dependent
                                  on the Mahanta to the detriment of relying on themselves to
                                  spiritually unfold. Although it is stated in the teachings not to
                                  worship the Mahanta or put him on a pedestal there are far too many
                                  suggestions in the books and the discourses to contradict that. A
                                  student can always use a good teacher but when that individual subtly
                                  puts themself in a position of authority and control the student
                                  disempowers himself. The true connection between God and the
                                  individual is not an intercessor but the Higher Self which becomes
                                  Spirit itself.

                                  The outer organisation was becoming more and more like a religion.
                                  What started as an exciting journey into higher states of
                                  consciousnes became more and more stale and stagnant. Even the name
                                  of the path became known as the Religion of the Light and the Sound.
                                  The services on Sunday became Worship services. The services were
                                  becoming repetitious, mundane, and uninspiring like the personality
                                  of its leader HK. Everything was becoming more and more geared
                                  towards recruiting members.

                                  The initiations were generally meaningless. They had little to do
                                  with spiritual unfoldment and much more to do with how much time and
                                  service were devoted to the outer organisation. I can give you an
                                  example from my own experience. When I first joined Eckankar I got to
                                  know the local RESA very well and got my second and third initiations
                                  very quickly. I gradually became disinterested and completely
                                  uninvolved with the outer organisation and low and behold I did not
                                  get my fourth initiation for years. One day I decided to call the
                                  head office about the situation. I knew they didn't like it if one
                                  requested an initiation so I went about it in a different way. I told
                                  the person in spiritual services that I wasn't requesting an
                                  initiation but was simply wondering why I hadn't gotten an initiation
                                  in such a long period of time and left it at that. And presto within
                                  a month I got the pink slip for my next initiation! Seems they lost
                                  track of me simply because I wasn't involved with the outer
                                  organisation.

                                  And the last but not least reason I left is because as they say you
                                  can really know something through experience so I wanted to go
                                  through quitting to see if the curses are for real (LOL).

                                  I AM FREEDOM


                                  -- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > So why did you quit Eckankar?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "iam999freedom"
                                  > <iam999freedom@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I would like to share a series of experiences that I had many
                                  years
                                  > > ago when I was 12 years old. This was in 1965 before there were
                                  any
                                  > > Eckankar centres in my area or perhaps none anywhere at that
                                  time.
                                  > >
                                  > > To make a long story short my parents were having marital discord
                                  > and
                                  > > one night I cried out to the universe in pain as to if there was
                                  a
                                  > > God and what God was all about. I was met in waking conscouisness
                                  > by
                                  > > a man who I would later in life identify at an Eckankar centre as
                                  > > Rebazar Tarzs. There is no question that the man and others such
                                  as
                                  > > Gopal Das, Fubbi Quantz etc. who I met years previous in waking
                                  > > dreams were the same individuals as the photos at the Eckankar
                                  > centre.
                                  > >
                                  > > Anyways, getting back to when I was a youth of 12 in a series of
                                  > > experiences these individuals taught me about Karma,
                                  Reincarnation,
                                  > > the spirtual laws, etc. It was what I needed to progress
                                  > spiritually
                                  > > as I was brought up as a Christian which never did answer to my
                                  > > satisfaction the questions I had about life.
                                  > >
                                  > > I believe that the reason I and others have experiences with
                                  beings
                                  > > such as "Eck Masters" is because Spirit will teach us in such a
                                  way
                                  > > as we are receptive to receive its Wisdom. It doesn't matter if
                                  the
                                  > > teacher is Christ (who I was sceptical about and wasn't very
                                  > > receptive to) or Krishna or green men from other planets or other
                                  > > beings such as Rebazar Tarzs. It depends on our current state of
                                  > > consciousness and what we need to progress spiritually. I
                                  happened
                                  > to
                                  > > be very receptive to RT and these other beings as they came with
                                  a
                                  > > spirit of great compassion and wisdom. During the period of time
                                  I
                                  > > had experiences with them both my inner and outer live flourished.
                                  > >
                                  > > I did join Eckankar when I was 20 and remained as a member for 30
                                  > > years before I left. I do not believe that Rebazar Tarzs exists
                                  in
                                  > > the physical. Common sense would tell us otherwise for a variety
                                  of
                                  > > reasons. However I do believe in his existence in the universal
                                  > world
                                  > > of beingness much in the same manner that other religous figures
                                  > > exist according to the claims of some of their followers. Whether
                                  > > they are truly real in another dimenson or whether they are an
                                  > image
                                  > > conjoured up in the spiritual imagination of the universe for
                                  lack
                                  > of
                                  > > a better term is a matter of interest but I don't feel it's
                                  > > necessarily that important.
                                  > >
                                  > > Any other thoughts?,
                                  > >
                                  > > I am Freeedom.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > - In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I found an old post of mine in the archives of Gurgle:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > My Dear Devotees,
                                  > > > It is my sad duty to inform you that I have left the fold of
                                  > > > ECKANKAR! I have had it living in the cold, desolate Far
                                  Country;
                                  > > > shivering in sub-zero weather; drinking buttered yak tea
                                  without
                                  > a
                                  > > > tv, radio or even a CD player!! Of course I will remember the
                                  > good
                                  > > > old days when Paul's Tuza would come to my leaky shack to shoot
                                  > the
                                  > > > crap about spiritual stuff but lately, I've been sick and tired
                                  > of
                                  > > > hanging out up here missing all the fun!! I mean, first it's
                                  Paul
                                  > > > with his cushy home in California; then that jazz
                                  player...what's
                                  > > his
                                  > > > name...Dap Ren (Stimpy's buddy) buying planes and screwing
                                  broads
                                  > > and
                                  > > > oh shit..the list is endless!! Now it's that skinny German guy
                                  > with
                                  > > > the sheep's voice who's got a problem with the power lines
                                  around
                                  > > > his house!!! I'm telling you..I've had it!!! Eckankar ain't
                                  what
                                  > it
                                  > > > used to be. Just the other day, me Fubbi, and Gopal were down
                                  at
                                  > > the
                                  > > > Ocean Of Love and Mercy talkin'...I mean REALLY talkin' about
                                  > > things.
                                  > > > Fubbi left his Temple and bought a condo in Fort Meyers...He's
                                  > > tired
                                  > > > of guiding souls and making appearances at satangs anymore...he
                                  > > says
                                  > > > to me "Reb, ya' gotta start fresh, the Earth folks ain't buying
                                  > > this
                                  > > > horeshit anymore since Reagan came into power!" He's got
                                  himself
                                  > a
                                  > > > young broad now and making a nice living running a bowling
                                  > > > alley!! "I'm happy now...no pressure!!" he says as he stomps
                                  out
                                  > > his
                                  > > > cigar. And Gopal, who I thought NEVER would have left..
                                  > > > He's already got a nice little congregation in Skippack,
                                  > > Pennsylvania
                                  > > > now, preaching the word of Jesus. He says with a grin "I'm
                                  > telling
                                  > > > you guys...this IS the real thing..a little white church...a
                                  > > hundred
                                  > > > or so Christians...little old ladies baking me cakes every
                                  > > > Saturday...I'm in Heaven!!!"
                                  > > > So I just bought a computer and logged into the best "light
                                  and
                                  > > > sound" this side of the Anami Lok!!! I'm still a little shaky,
                                  > but
                                  > > > I'll get the hang of it... By the way, everyone, Paul is
                                  nowhere
                                  > to
                                  > > > be found!!!! Ain't that weird!!!
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Rebazar Tarzs
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > May the Blessings be in some babe's lap holding a martini and
                                  > > > watching the Bulls!!
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "tomleafeater" <tianyue@>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Over at a.r.e., there has been some discussion about the non-
                                  > > > > existence of Rebazar Tarz, Eckankar's mountain man who is
                                  said
                                  > to
                                  > > > > habituate the icy pennacles of the Hindu Kush range in his
                                  bare
                                  > > > feat.
                                  > > > > As Garland Peck at a.r.e. has put it, Rebazar is missing! In
                                  > his
                                  > > > > writings, Twitchell began to substitute Rebazar Tarz in place
                                  > of
                                  > > > > Kirpal Singh, the Rhaoda Soami master Twitchell once called
                                  his
                                  > > > > personal guru. Twitchell had a fallout with the guru and
                                  > > > subsequently
                                  > > > > went through his manuscripts, substituting Rebazar in places
                                  > > where
                                  > > > > Kirpal was mentioned.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > In Dialogues with a Master, Twitchell has an encounter with
                                  > > Rebazar
                                  > > > > who visits him in his 'light body' and inexplicably uses
                                  > Rebazar
                                  > > as
                                  > > > a
                                  > > > > puppet to speak the words written by Julian Johnson (a Kirpal
                                  > > > > follower), as found in JJ's book, 'Paths of the Master.'
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Which of course, begs the question, that if Rebazar is real,
                                  > why
                                  > > > put
                                  > > > > Kirpal's name in manuscripts prior to substituting Rebazar's
                                  > > name,
                                  > > > > and why dangle Rebazar as a marrionette parroting the words
                                  of
                                  > > > Julian
                                  > > > > J. Can't Reb speak for himself?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > For those who've read of the plethora of other shenanigans
                                  > > > > perpetrated by PT, the answer is obvious: Rebazar doesn't
                                  exist.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > So why do Eckists not only see Rebazar in 'inner experiences'
                                  > but
                                  > > > > have full length conversations with him? Has anyone here had
                                  an
                                  > > > > experience with Rebazar? What do you think is the basis of
                                  such
                                  > > > > experiences? Eckists point to these experiences as the answer
                                  > to
                                  > > > > critics. In their minds, it is the ultimate way of deflating
                                  > the
                                  > > > > arguments that Rebazar isn't real. (I thought this would be a
                                  > > > useful
                                  > > > > discussion...)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thoughts...?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Spring Leaf
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • prometheus_973
                                  Hi All, Eckists want to see Rebazar and that s why they do, BUT never on the physical Plane! Why is it that a Master over 500 years old, in the same physical
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Apr 1, 2006
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                                    Hi All,
                                    Eckists want to see Rebazar and that's why they do, BUT never on the
                                    physical Plane! Why is it that a Master over 500 years old, in the
                                    same physical body, has never been seen in the physical? The answer
                                    is that Rebazar is actually Twitchell's former Radhasoami master
                                    (Kirpal Singh) and that Twitchell made much of it all up!

                                    Also, Twitchell's original descriptions of Yaubl and Fubbi don't
                                    match the drawings Klemp promotes, therefore, Eckists only see these
                                    Eck Masters appearing as they are drawn and described by Klemp and
                                    Not by Twitchell! This is more proof that these, and all, Eck
                                    Masters are phoney creations of a religious scam!

                                    However, why do people see "masters" or angels, etc. and even see
                                    them prior to seeing the drawings or pictures of them? There are
                                    many answers to this phenomenon and some are psychological and some
                                    are spiritual. Also, this phenomenon is Not limited to Eckankar or
                                    even to religion per se. However, a strong belief and focus by the
                                    mind will influence (and distort) one's reality.

                                    The physicalogical/psychological reasons for these paranormal
                                    visitations or visions can be extremely varied and depends upon the
                                    individual's mental health or lack of. It is a sliding scale
                                    that has many facets including diet, sleep, and stress! And, just
                                    look at Klemp's meeting with the two "eck masters" on the bridge
                                    before his leap!

                                    Another explanation for these experiences (of visions and
                                    vistations) is that Soul is using the mind for communication with
                                    Itself! Soul will use whatever means (images and belief) available
                                    and accepted by the mind. And, since Soul is Not limited by time or
                                    space this is why some "inner" experiences can take place before the
                                    actual physical event. Anyway, it's an interesting topic, BUT
                                    Eckists are really delusional and ego bound if they believe that
                                    this is a phenomenon exclusive to Eckankar, that it gives validity
                                    to the Eck teachings, or that it makes them unique or superior.
                                    <smile>

                                    Prometheus







                                    ewickings wrote:

                                    Ganesh writes:

                                    didn't I hear somewhere that Rebazar's portrait was based on Burt
                                    Reynolds?

                                    LOL well you heard correctly. Apparently Diana Stanley had a
                                    crush
                                    on Burt and made Rubber Tires in his image, among others, her own
                                    brother (according to him) is one of the Masters too....
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