Re: CONNECTION WITH 'ROD' (PHALLIC SYMBOL) FAILED
- --- In eckankartruth@y..., Randy Cable <ran1100@y...> wrote:
> I have responded with parenthasis-RandyAnd this was posted twice, so I deleted one!
Excuse the delay in response...I've been busy enjoying summer!
For clarity, I will respond between previous comments & probably not delete any of them.
> --- Sharon <brighttigress@y...> wrote:Randy, I don't believe that Spirit is impersonal in nature.
> > --- In eckankartruth@y..., Randy Cable
> > <ran1100@y...> wrote:
> > > Greetings Colleen!
> > > I had a Christian mystic tell me about
> > brotherhoods
> > > and "rods of power".
> > Did he/she tell you they were a crock?(I honestly
> beleive she was talking about legit paths. If you
> recall P.T. did build his con on other information,
> > Because I had an experience
> > > (OOBE)once when I witnessed the eck rod of power
> > shift
> > > from H.Klemp to a new Master "in waiting" so to
> > speak.
> > Fer crissakes, Randy...Klemp was NEVER a "master" of
> > any kind...except perhaps a master of self-delusion!
> (What of the impersonal nature of Spirit? What of
> those who do not know and yet despite eckankar they
> become aware of what is here, now? I was raised a
> christian and "knew" seperation was the normal beleif
> in christianity and was true for me. Do you not assume
> that Spirit will become active with another and not
> spite that person just because an outer path may be
To me, Spirit is the most incredibly & intensely personal
& intimate experience I've ever had!
I don't quite understand what you mean about separation being
the normal belief in Christianity. On the contrary, what I get from Christian teachings is that all are "one" with God/Spirit in christ (which is both the person of Christ as well as the "consciousness" of Christ, and there is no separation there, because they are *one*)
I don't really assume much of anything. I know there are sincere people in the cult, who may indeed have a "connection" with true Spirit and not the pseudo-eckvariety of it. And I certainly don't think that God/Spirit holds anything against anyone because of their "outer" beliefs. Nor does God/Spirit *favor* anyone because of their beliefs, or non-beliefs. I don't think God/Spirit "judges" at all. I think God/Spirit *does* reveal the "truth" to us, but not necessarily here on earth.
> > > As a matter of fact I had a similar experienceRecidivist means backsliding into bad habits, and generally is
> > some time after that and witnessed the same event.
> > > But the eck rod of power was not noticable with
> > Klemp, yet when the shaft of light transfered from Klemp
> > it increased with a bit of dim light and then
> > transfered to the new guy and increased to a real bright
> > glow.The second time the event happened this new master
> > > must be doing something right because it not only
> > > increased in light but also filled the valley we
> > were standing in to a large area about us.
> > You're a (recidivist?) cult member waiting to happen,
>(What does it mean,recidivist?)
used to refer to criminals who get out of jail but return to
their old criminal habits.
> > BTW...I say this affectionately!!( I remember a song*Everything* we're aware of comes from/through the brain, Randy.
> that went something like..."cruel to be kind" ya know,
> tuff love and that sort of thing..affectionately? me
> > > My experience was that the increase of light
> > caused an auric type presence to shine 'round about us. Each
> > of us stood about 20 feet from the two guys but yet
> > we could simply attune to the auric presence around
> > us and percieve to some degree what the new guy was
> > > experiencing. He could view all planes of God at
> > once or focus on any one particular plane or any one
> > event or one person on this planet if need be.
> > Information about anything was available.
> > Randy, wake up fer crissakes!!!!!!
> >could be right about the brain nuerons firing or some
> >such explaination. Sant Mat groups caution about the
> >potential for imaginative abuse)
> > You'd be much better of taking LSD!!! It's more(Dr.Weil swears by the good stuff and only
> > honest!!!!
> one time use only.)That's interesting...by the way, I'm trying to track down:
- "LSD - My Problem Child" by Albert Hofmann who gives a
detailed account of the history of his discovery of LSD-25
as well as connections to other psychedelics and mystical
This is recommended by Gunnar Reitel.
Personally, I wouldn't touch the stuff. Too many horror stories
about people jumping from windows when I was a kid, plus a girl in
school had flashbacks of long lines of marching ducks. <ggg> I've
seen many people take the stuff as an adult, but excuse me...I don't
see the sense of seeing weird colors & melting walls. And I've heard they use rat poison today. No thanks!
In fact, before the cult when I first started having 'experiences' I
was telling a friend who knew about such things, and he said it sounded like someone was slipping me acid...I considered the possibility, but knew it wasn't possible.
> >Well...it may not have necessarily been hallucinations. Could
> > (Well, it could be true, Sharon, but at least I
> hallucinated without the expense of LSD. But if I did
> not hallucinate....Oh well....*S*)
have been your brain producing the images in response to your
own thoughts or something.
What gets stick is discovering the *meaning* (if any) of these
things. The cult taught us to interpret these things in a way
that favored the cult, of course. And I guess when you get out,
you can take sort of an "opposite" viewpoint.
> > > My inner experiences had made it damn hard for meCould've been those darn pesky aliens, too! <ggg
> > to leave eckankar. While I am not a member of any
> > order, but I did experience these two events in my
> > spiritual life. The only thing I can figure out is that the
> > new guy, for whatever reason invited me, or the
> > experience
> > > happened by the grace of God.
Have you considered the possibility that the "new guy" was...*you*?
> > Please don't fulfill the old saying "Once a sucker,Gee, I don't remember writing the "sucker" line! It doesn't
> > always a sucker!"( I could use a lollipop about
exactly sound like me...not a word I use, really. Oh, well...
> > > Some people are fortunate, I suppose, to have leftWell...I guess since I had my "experiences" before the cult, and I fell for the "ecksplanations" and that's how I got conned into joining, not to mention all that other stuff about always having been with the master whether I knew it or not, etc., well...I guess I always assumed that *everyone* had experiences.
> > > eckankar after only experiencing the so called
> > outer stuff.
> > Humbly presumptive, aren't you?
>(I do know that some
> have left without any "inner experiences"(OOBEs) maybe
> the breaking away is easier)
But I think I understand...heck, I suppose people joined by seeing an ad on TV or in the TV Guide, and fell for the promises, and also the crap about it's happening "on the inner" whether you know it or not, and also the things Klemp says about not worrying if you don't have the inner experiences, and other nonsense.
> >And, I'd like to add...how do you *know* they didn't come from your
> > >But what about folks like me?
> > As I said, a recidivist cult member waiting to
> > happen.
> > Hey Alf...Randy needs a little "bitchslapping"
> > here!!!(Randy exposes left cheek, er face that
> > > To have dialogue
> > > from Masters with such scope of information I know
> > did not come from my subconscious. My inner
> > experiences
> > > left me wanting to stay with the cult, regardless.
> > I'm sure.
> > Randy...consider this. Either you wereAnd I'd like to add here, Randy, that you're not alone. I am always surprised at how people dropped out under Gross or Klemp and *still*
> > hallucinating, or...you had a close encounter of the
> > pesky alien kind.( I may have )
> > I had some "inner" experiences. I'd say they were
> > definitely precognitive, but I was too dumb &
> > eckanfogged at the time to see them for what they
> > were.
> > Klemp...shoving me into a dark room with no windows.
> > Twitch...a perverted sicko child molester, taking
> > off with my son after kicking me out of the car...in
> > front of the police station.
> > ( I never had anything but uplifting experiences
> with my conscious OOBEs, or dream journeys with the
> so-called Vairagi. I suppose that maybe you,Sharon,
> "seen" the corrupt organization long before you
> recognized such consciously. Your disillusionment
> may've happened subconsiously first and then filtered
> to your conscious mind)
> > And...leading that sick twisted parade in a dark,
> > damp, smelly
> > alley.(Never happened to me, ever) Within my dream
> journeys, I recall seminars similar to those on this
> planet, good eckists in classrooms. But I know that
> many of my dream journeys were the result of
> "suggestions" within a current discourse I just read.)
> > > But when I decided to leave, I first thought that
> > as a master Paul just screwed up badly, made terrible
> > > mistakes.
think the Twitchster was some kind of "master"!! Fer crissakes, during my whole time in the cult I had serious reservations about him, and struggled with that, even talked about it with a few HIs!
Now, looking back on all the garbage he wrote, I can see it was just my good sense kicking in about him.
> >(King David, Solomon, Simon
> > Randy, Twitch accomplished *exactly* what he wanted
> > to!!!
> > He started a cult. People fell for it. He got
> > bucks, babes, and
> > worship.
> > >In the realm of possibilities this could
> > > happen, just consider religious history when the
> > great
> > > Ones made grievous errors.
> > Great Ones? Excuse me???
> Peter..etc. Not to place any lem on their level, butOh...I came back to this just now, wrote the stuff below a few hours ago. Anyway...It sounds here like you're thinking of the eckscuse
> Great Ones have fallen, but have repented and
> corrected their wrongs. My sentence reffers to my
> earlier doubts before leaving the cult. I am just
> sharing some of the thoughts I had in those early days
> before leaving the cult)
about Darwin being a "Great One" who fell. Darwin doesn't think he
Twitch never thought he fell. The Cult & Harold don't think he fell.
They're barely admitting he plagiarized...they're still rationalizing
and excusing it, and hyping him as "great" except of course the "consciousness" was lower then...oh, geez, it's *such* a bunch of
> > Hey...many similarities between Torquemada and yourNo, you were clear, I just responded to it in my own way.
> > typical
> > eckthug (working under the direction of Klemp,
> > Skelsky, Kunin, et al)
> > but I certainly wouldn't call them "great ones"!
> (Iwould not either. Maybe I should never write again,
> simply because of my inability to compeletely explian
> my thoughts on any given subject, or maybe I should
> write rough drafts until I am clear on my points,
> please forgive my lack of clarification.)
There's a difference between genuine "great ones" such as you mention
(Solomon, David, Peter) ... did *any* of them claim they were "great"?
Did any of them hype themselves the way the cult hypes not only the LEMs, but the HIs???? They were human. They shared of themselves openly & honestly, both their normal human failings and any wisdom & beliefs they had.
Fer crissakes, don't apologize!!!! Lighten up!!! We're just having a friendly chat here... don't you have sort of laughing conversations with friends, lively discussions where you just say "Hey, I think you're being a jerk for believing that!"? And your friend responds
the same way, and you both laugh about it...
> >I agree with you here! If we *let* Spirit work with us, but that's
> > In each situation the men,
> > > individually, trusted their own limitations.
> > > Anyway, if all I have is my conscious OOBE as
> > proof,
> > > then I know what a rod of power is and what it is
> > > about.
> > What's this "rod of power" bullshit?
>( I can deny the
> cult and its grievous ways, but I trust that Spirit
> will work with any Soul despite an outer path's ways)
not possible when the cult is telling us what to believe, how to
interpret things, and filling our heads with garbage so that although
Spirit can be trying to tell us something, we have shut of our rational minds and replaced it with the programmed cult mind, which blocks out the true Spirit within us.
At least, that's *my* experience!
You think Spirit needs a "rod of power"? It's bullshit, Randy.
A bunch of silly deluded beings wearing funny outfits & stuff.
> Despite eckankar I know Spirit has assumed theYep, and Twitch took advantage of that fact for his own
> tapestry of my inner experiences. I know OOBEs happen
> even long before Twit came along.
> I honestly beleiveI don't think Spirit desires anything...Spirit already *has* an intimate conscious relationship with us, although perhaps we're
> that Spirit is so desirous of an intimate conscious
> relationship with any Soul that despite any outer
> path, Spirit will do for that Soul what is best for
> that Soul.
not totally conscious of it. <ggg>
I do *not* think that Spirit necessarily does anything for us.
I think things just happen, and what we do with them is up to us.
>I still believe in God's unconditional LoveGod doesn't punish, exactly. Okay...now think a bit about fanatic
> and God will not with wrath punish an unsuspecting
> follower of any religion that has Spirit as its focus.
Muslims who bomb things, and <ggg> the eckthugs. I think one day
they wake up & see things clearly (especially themselves & what they've done) and say....oh, shit...I *really* screwed up!!! And they probably feel pretty crappy, because they'll feel the pain they've
caused. That's where God kicks in, and hands out the unconditional
Sort of like childbirth...you forget the pain & just have the baby.
<giggle> Then the next time you give birth and it gets rough, you
think...geez, I don't believe I forgot how awful it was!!!
> If I were to even assume that God could be so damnI found much more pure spiritual truth & beauty in Catholicism than
> hateful to any Soul in this way, then I would return
> to being a self-righteous fundamentalist christain and
> buy the bulk of the bullshit that Catholicism tries to
> project on other people's minds.
in e-kult. In spite of believing (sort of) the rantings of cults like the JWs & eckankar about it.
You get wackos anywhere, Randy. And fundies. I guess I've just
known more "nice" ones.
You know, I rejected the JWs because of Jehovah's hatefullness, although I "believed". I said, Go ahead, Jehovah...kill me!!! And
I went on my merry way.
>We were duped duringTry to see the good in other religions, Randy.
> many incarnations by nearly every religion in this
There's incredible beauty in all of them.
Did it ever occur to you that you're expressing another eckanlie here?
What if we thoroughly & totally benefitted from our associations with these other religions in countless incarnations, and only grew more & more in our love for God/Spirit through them? And in *this* incarnation, in order to experience the lie & deception, Spirit put us in a lying deceptive CULT with a FALSE "God" just to show us the difference?
Haven't you wondered how all these other false religions that are nothing but social organizations into power & control & deception by the "priestcraft" produced so many spiritual greats, who expressed in *original* writing their spiritual discoveries?
The cult claims it all, says it's all their copyrighted cultword.
How come such pitiful miserable lying paths produced all those "greats", Randy?
How come these so-called "dead" religions with none of the cult's much-hyped "light and sound" do so much good in the world?
What has ECKANKULT done?
Oh...a thought. I'd say that those "greats" like David & Solomon, well...they sort of had them thar darn pesky "power flows", didn't
they? <ggg> Did *they* dump Wife #1 & say she just couldn't "handle it" although they, on the inner, supposedly were in charge of the whole universe & weather & also for balancing the chelas, which Mrs. Klemp #1 was? #2 must be really hot, don't you think?
> but Spirt is the redeeming grace of ourI think our existence is just our existence, and very nice!
> I will not deny my OOBEs.I don't deny mine, either. But I know I was *very* wrong about
what I believed about them during my cult years.
I'm still waiting for the ultimate OOBE, though...yep, I'm hoping
they'll perfect total body transplants & I can get out of this one
and into a nicely curved size 14!!! <ggg> Smaller feet would
be nice, too.
And, of course...naturally curly red hair!!
(It's a matter of perspective, everyone!!)
>If nothing elseActually, Randy, did you ever think of life on earth as an OOBE?
> then Spirit simply worked with what tapestry I was
> comfortable with until I moved on beyond the cult and
> my OOBEs would take on newer more meanigful
> experiences, yes by God's grace indeed this happened
> with my OOBEs.
Spirit is patient and loving, It knows
> what direction my life will take long before I do andWell...I don't have any expectations. I just have fun.
> will work in harmony with expectations I have that are
> of a spiritual nature.
> I will not deny the spirtualI think it's all spiritual, and actually don't have time to think
> side of my life.
"Spiritual" seems to be the "in" buzzword of the times, doesn't it?
>Eckankar will not cause me to ignoreI like OODEs. (Out of Doors Experiences) (Fishing!!)
> my OOBEs. Just because Twit and those who follow him
> are/were full of shit, does not mean that OOBEs never
I am just *very* glad that I have never popped out of my body like
I did back in my 20's, while driving my beloved '55 chevy to a vo-tech horticulture class. Scared the heck out of me, to look down & see it heading up the road without me, and without collision insurance!
>I rarely trust dream journeys.I should have trusted mine, and not tried to eckinterpret them.
They were warnings.
Hey...I had a dream experience with Sting!! We hugged!! It *was*
>But I trustI trust myself.
> Spirit will guide me to the correct OOBE experience I
Have you considered that your OOBE experiences were BAD and
DECEPTIVE and maybe Spirit wants you to learn discernment?
>As for the "rod of power"? Who knows? Has itRandy, eckankult is a crock of bullshit, and there is no way it
> ever occured to any one that despite eckankar, a true
> person could arrive and correct eckankar?
can be corrected honestly. Except by closing up shop, admitting
the truth, and sending out refunds to all the silly fools it conned
over the years.
> Or is itSpirit has no limitations, Randy. I think Spirit also couldn't
> true that we still image Spirit as having limitations
> similar to our own?
care less about all the bullshit.
Spirit is probably....fishing!! <ggg>
>It more than likely is too lateJust had a thought...perhaps "Soul" is just the sum total of "all"
> for any correction. I can not imagine any honourable
> Soul getting with the cult.
of us, physical mental emotional, etc.?
Yep, it *is* too late for correction. Klemp has only dug the hole
deeper, and piled the eckankrap higher....
> But our healing processes are different and yetBoo-boos happen. I usually ignore them, and they heal on their own. Except lately, I *have* been using antibiotic cream and found they *do* heal faster...you know, annoying little things like paper cuts...
> similar in some ways.)
> > Excuuuuse me...but, I certainly don't want anythingDidn't I write a circle-jerk scenario? Maybe not...I know I did in my first response, but it somehow got "lost" and I had to re-write, and may have forgotten it!
> > to do with a "god" who's into this bullshit little
> > boys' club nonsense, with secret words and
> > handshakes and phallic symbols!!!
>(What? No inner
> circle jerk sessions? LOL
>BTW the belief in the secretI had "success" without any words, before the cult.
> word is the key to a secret word's success.
I don't think belief has anything to do with it, really. You can focus on your big toe & chant "boo" and it'll "work". It's simply relaxation, and much better if it's not being used to pound in cultic programming. A few quiet moments with a cup of chamomile tea & some nice relaxing music is just as good. Or gardening. Or...fishing!!
> As it isRandy, I can believe I have curly red hair forever, but I won't.
> unto your faith, so it is to you-Yeshua.
>UnderstandWhat do you mean, "work"?
> that Twit used certain truths that allowed his cult to
> work. Despite eckankar the universal truths work.
How about... "By their fruits, you shall know them."
> P.Twitchell manipulated those truths for his own ends.Yep!
> So I will not allow eckankar to influence me to justRight...
> trash universal truths that have been around since
> before creation.)
You know, Randy, actually right now I'm not that concerned with "spritual" stuff anymore. I guess I've got more practical concerns,
at least for the moment.
I just had a hilarious thought...imagine someone "soul traveling" here from the Astral Plane...landing at an Elks Club meeting where perhaps Joey "Galuuk" Homsey was acting all "spirichul" or something...would this astral traveler be impressed by the funny hats? Perhaps....
> Thanks Sharon. I hope others continue to respond. IsYeah, I think chatting is good!! I don't feel like housework
> not interaction such as this good for our collective
right now!! <ggg>
Hey, do you want to hear something neat? Well...I mentioned Shellee, my pet mussel. It died. Well...I was busy. Didn't get around to doing a proper funeral or anything. Was planning to take care of it this weekend. Just left it in the tank. Maybe I was hoping it *wasn't* dead...but I'll be darned, would you believe that one day Shellee was there (and it *was* big enough to eat) and the next day...it was GONE!!! Honest!!! Nothing there but the empty shell!!!
I wonder...was Shellee taken bodily into heaven like the Virgin Mary?
Do mussels have souls?
*Are* mussels soul?
I just know they're darn tasty!!
Love & Hugs!!