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Re: Klemp's Loser Statement!

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  • violinmike2002
    ... You have me at an advantage. I don t read anything they put out in over 2 years. You have to remember the mans been living in a eck bubble for 25 years at
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 12 8:23 PM
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      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi, All!
      >
      > Since Sharon brought up the Temporary Postal Clerk story, I'd like
      > to quote the "loser" comments Klemp wrote in his latest book "Those
      > Wonderful ECK Masters" here as well. I have posts on this over on
      > Eckankar Survivors Anonymous. It is also fascinating, because some
      > eckists have commented that they resonated with Klemp's
      > unkind "loser" comments which proves how easily it is to train these
      > chelas to be unloving . . . just because Harold says so, it is
      > right!! LOL!
      >
      > From "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," by Harold Klemp, page 211:
      >
      > "Belief in the Master's ever-present company relies upon an
      > individual's degree of unfoldment. Actual inner experiences help one
      > move to a greater understanding of the ways of divine revelation.
      > But if he chooses to hang on to shopworn karmic debts due to, say,
      > an inability to control some mental passion or habit like anger,
      > then his spiritual momentum stops. It's that simple. Of course, a
      > headstrong follower always tries to fix blame on the Mahanta, the
      > Living ECK Master when his attempts to advance in ECK come to
      > nothing.
      > But such an attitude changes nothing. The individual is a loser and
      > will continue to be a loser until he adopts the practices of a
      > winner. . . "
      >
      > Compare this "loser" comment with what Harold said about the
      > Temporary Postal Clerk, and one cannot help but see how unloving and
      > intolerant the great mahanta is! This is what he is teaching his
      > chelas!
      >
      > In the Temporary Postal Clerk story, it seems that Harold
      > demonstrated his "inability to control some mental passion or habit
      > like anger" and that his "spiritual momentum" stopped! Therefore, we
      > can deduct/reason who the real loser is! He certainly ignores his
      > own advice! More proof that Harold is not what he claims! LOL!
      >
      > Mish
      >
      > p.s. note that the Temporary Postal story was written in 2003; while
      > the loser comments were published in 2005. Seems to be an ungoing
      > pattern and attitude emitting from the mahanta! : )
      >

      You have me at an advantage. I don't read anything they put out
      in over 2 years.
      You have to remember the mans been living in a eck bubble for
      25 years at the helm and indoctinated for at least 12 years before
      that. This would be over 37 years. Its amazing he can still
      function at all. The stories are all to promote some element of
      the teachings.They are very careful. Books are a major source
      of ekults revenue. One day they will say they have the greatest
      eck book, the pages inside will be blank and the chelas will
      still buy it.
      Mike
    • mishmisha9
      ... wrote: Hi, All! Since Sharon brought up the Temporary Postal Clerk story, I d like to quote the loser comments Klemp wrote in his latest book Those
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 13 5:05 PM
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        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "violinmike2002"
        <violinmike2002@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@>
        wrote:

        Hi, All!

        Since Sharon brought up the Temporary Postal Clerk story, I'd like
        to quote the "loser" comments Klemp wrote in his latest book "Those
        Wonderful ECK Masters" here as well. I have posts on this over on
        Eckankar Survivors Anonymous. It is also fascinating, because some
        eckists have commented that they resonated with Klemp's
        unkind "loser" comments which proves how easily it is to train these
        chelas to be unloving . . . just because Harold says so, it is
        right!! LOL!

        From "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," by Harold Klemp, page 211:

        "Belief in the Master's ever-present company relies upon an
        individual's degree of unfoldment. Actual inner experiences help one
        move to a greater understanding of the ways of divine revelation.
        But if he chooses to hang on to shopworn karmic debts due to, say,
        an inability to control some mental passion or habit like anger,
        then his spiritual momentum stops. It's that simple. Of course, a
        headstrong follower always tries to fix blame on the Mahanta, the
        Living ECK Master when his attempts to advance in ECK come to
        nothing.
        But such an attitude changes nothing. The individual is a loser and
        will continue to be a loser until he adopts the practices of a
        winner. . . "

        Compare this "loser" comment with what Harold said about the
        Temporary Postal Clerk, and one cannot help but see how unloving and
        intolerant the great mahanta is! This is what he is teaching his
        chelas!

        In the Temporary Postal Clerk story, it seems that Harold
        demonstrated his "inability to control some mental passion or habit
        like anger" and that his "spiritual momentum" stopped! Therefore, we
        can deduct/reason who the real loser is! He certainly ignores his
        own advice! More proof that Harold is not what he claims! LOL!

        Mish

        p.s. note that the Temporary Postal story was written in 2003; while
        the loser comments were published in 2005. Seems to be an ongoing
        pattern and attitude emitting from the mahanta! : )
        > >

        ******************************************************
        >
        You have me at an advantage. I don't read anything they put out
        in over 2 years.
        You have to remember the mans been living in a eck bubble for
        25 years at the helm and indoctinated for at least 12 years before
        that. This would be over 37 years. Its amazing he can still
        function at all. The stories are all to promote some element of
        the teachings.They are very careful. Books are a major source
        of ekults revenue. One day they will say they have the greatest
        eck book, the pages inside will be blank and the chelas will
        still buy it.
        > Mike
        >

        *************************************************

        Hi, Mike!

        You're absolutely right about Klemp's retreat from the real world
        which has been self-inflicted. His choice. I had read all of Klemp's
        mahanta transcripts, his autobios and some of his other books and a
        few of Twitchell's before quitting the org. "Those Wonderful ECK
        Masters" became curious for me when I read a couple of eckists on
        another forum quoting and resonating with the "loser" statement. So,
        I invested some time and money into this newest book of HK's. It has
        been really fun to read his writings with new eyes! LOL!

        Your suggestion that one day the greatest eck book will be sold with
        blank pages to willing chelas is a very good possibility--and
        certainly will be quite a good money maker. This "blank" paged book
        which might very well be called Volume Three of the Shariyat-Ki-
        Sugmad could assist chelas as they do their contemplations--say when
        they want to go to the Inner to read this sacred third volume. After
        all, they can dream this, but the book would be a helpful tool to
        enhance their trip to the Inner. They could flip open to one of the
        blank pages, close their eyes and begin the spiritual exercise! It
        would assist their imaginations just as those pictures of the fake
        masters do!

        From "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," by Harold Klemp, page 169, a
        chela named Eve shared this dream:

        "The party of three--the Mahanta, Eve, and Rami Nuri--made their way
        down a long hall, with Rami Nuri in the lead. They continued along a
        main corridor until an aisle branched off to the left. And there it
        was, the third section of the holy Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad.
        The holy wisdom of God!
        Eve had expected to find sacred text greet her eyes, but it
        intrigued her to find not a single visible word in the whole volume.
        Not one word. But there was something: a beautiful, strong light
        surged from its pages, taking her breath away.
        And that was all Eve could remember of this remarkable experience."

        I think it is interesting, though, that this eckist saw the light
        but evidently couldn't remember anything else, say as to its meaning
        or some sort of revelation or truth! Well, I guess, she will have to
        evolve a bit more in order to really "get it!" : )

        Mish
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Mish, I was wondering where this THIRD section (book) of the Shariyat was located? Isn t it strange that there is supposed to be a Shariyat Book, or
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 14 1:19 PM
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          Hi Mish,
          I was wondering where this THIRD "section" (book) of the Shariyat
          was located? Isn't it strange that there is supposed to be a
          Shariyat Book, or section, on and for each Plane of Consciousness,
          AND that there are TWO BOOKS of the SHARIYAT in print on the earth
          Plane! Is this BOOK THREE also located in an Eck Temple on the earth
          Plane?! I'm thinking that it might be. Why then, if this Book Three
          is located on the earth Plane, that it is Not available in print
          since BOOK 2 is in print?! Shouldn't the first FOUR BOOKS of the
          Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad be available in print! [FOUR, since the Etheric
          Plane is actually the upper Mental Plane] Of course, this just
          follows the Eckankar dogma about the Planes of Consciousness.
          Twitchell set a precedent with BOOK TWO being printed and according
          to "Difficulties of Becoming the Living ECK Master" Twitchell had
          several chapters (5 or 6) of BOOK THREE written! Klemp can fool most
          of the Eckists most of the time BUT he can't fool all of the Eckists
          forever! <smile>

          Prometheus


          Mish wrote:
          From "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," by Harold Klemp, page 169, a
          chela named Eve shared this dream:

          "The party of three--the Mahanta, Eve, and Rami Nuri--made their way
          down a long hall, with Rami Nuri in the lead. They continued along a
          main corridor until an aisle branched off to the left. And there it
          was, the third section of the holy Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad. The holy
          wisdom of God! Eve had expected to find sacred text greet her eyes,
          but it intrigued her to find not a single visible word in the whole
          volume. Not one word. But there was something: a beautiful, strong
          light surged from its pages, taking her breath away. And that was
          all Eve could remember of this remarkable experience."

          I think it is interesting, though, that this eckist saw the light
          but evidently couldn't remember anything else, say as to its meaning
          or some sort of revelation or truth! Well, I guess, she will have to
          evolve a bit more in order to really "get it!" : )

          Mish
        • mishmisha9
          ... Hi Mish, I was wondering where this THIRD section (book) of the Shariyat was located? Isn t it strange that there is supposed to be a Shariyat Book, or
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 14 10:20 PM
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            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            Hi Mish,
            I was wondering where this THIRD "section" (book) of the Shariyat
            was located? Isn't it strange that there is supposed to be a
            Shariyat Book, or section, on and for each Plane of Consciousness,
            AND that there are TWO BOOKS of the SHARIYAT in print on the earth
            Plane! Is this BOOK THREE also located in an Eck Temple on the earth
            Plane?! I'm thinking that it might be. Why then, if this Book Three
            is located on the earth Plane, that it is Not available in print
            since BOOK 2 is in print?! Shouldn't the first FOUR BOOKS of the
            Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad be available in print! [FOUR, since the Etheric
            Plane is actually the upper Mental Plane] Of course, this just
            follows the Eckankar dogma about the Planes of Consciousness.
            Twitchell set a precedent with BOOK TWO being printed and according
            to "Difficulties of Becoming the Living ECK Master" Twitchell had
            several chapters (5 or 6) of BOOK THREE written! Klemp can fool most
            of the Eckists most of the time BUT he can't fool all of the Eckists
            forever! <smile>

            Prometheus
            >
            **********************************************************

            Chapter 9, titled "Teacher at a Golden Wisdom Temple on Venus, RAMI
            NURI." On page 156, under Rami's pic, it is written: "Rami Nuri is
            the ECK Master who is guardian of the holy book, the Shariyat-Ki-
            Sugmad, on the Pinda Lok (physical world), at the House of Moksha,
            Temple of Golden Wisdom in the city of Retz, Venus. . . "

            Klemp writes on page 168, chapter 9: "So on one occasion she (the
            chela) met Rami Nuri, and this is how their meeting came about:
            As she did her spiritual exercises one day, Eve found herself with
            the Mahanta and in full consciousness at a Golden Wisdom Temple.
            She'd risen to the soft white cloud with the Mahanta as in the past.
            However, this time there was a surprise of sorts, for they'd arrived
            at a kind of mosque with a golden roof. An ECK Master with a beard
            greeted them at the door. . . ."

            On page 169, the story continues:
            "The party of three--the Mahanta, Eve, and Rami Nuri--made their way
            down a long hall, with Rami Nuri in the lead. They continued along a
            main corridor until an aisle branched off to the left. And there it
            was, the third section of the holy Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad. The holy
            wisdom of God! Eve had expected to find sacred text greet her eyes,
            but it intrigued her to find not a single visible word in the whole
            volume. Not one word. But there was something: a beautiful, strong
            light surged from its pages, taking her breath away. And that was
            all Eve could remember of this remarkable experience."

            And to finish the account, this is the rest of the story, also on
            page 169:

            "The next day, Eve was prompted to fix a drink she sometimes made to
            cleanse her body. But this time there was a nudge to make drinking
            it a spiritual exercise. So with that in mind, she visualized the
            liquid being the Light of ECK, watching it clean and purify her
            body. She noticed a great difference. The cleansing effects of the
            drink were many times more potent with the added visualization of
            spiritual light.
            This was the first of the ways that Eve's experience of the previous
            night with the light of the Shariyat in the House of Miksha began to
            manifest in her daily routine.
            So what lesson did the experience at the Temple of Golden Wisdom
            teach her? Eve learned to appreciate the merits of directed
            visualization in one's day-to-day life."

            So, Prometheus, in answer to your question the Third Volume of the
            Shariyat is on Venus, on the physical plane! LOL!

            Interesting how HK wove such a clever little tale, floating on a
            cloud to Venus, hobnobbing with Rami and the Mahanta, seeing the
            Light, and then implementing this experience into daily life by
            visualizing (imagining) the Light--and the reward was creating a
            more potent effect of her cleansing regimen! This is really a lot of
            crap, isn't it? LOL!

            Mish
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