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Re: why i left ekult

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  • al_radzik
    ... active ... the ... did ... and ... about ... sections ... Law ... compared ... the ... hypocracy, ... looked ... wants ... were ... and ... I ... much ...
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 1, 2006
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      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "eyesopen444" <eyesopen444@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hello sharon and fellow ex-eckists,
      >
      > I left ecult in the fall of 2005 after 15+ years. I was not an
      active
      > eckist-stricktly books and discourses. I did't attend satsang or
      > seminars after the first year or two. As the years went by I found
      the
      > discourses increasingly difficult to study and had few results with
      > the spiritual exercises. I decided to go to an eck service and meet
      > some of the eckists. There were less than a dozen of them and they
      did
      > not appear to be especially spiritual. The service was uninspiring
      and
      > the participants strained to come up with some stories or words of
      > wisdom that related to the service's spiritual subject. I saw what I
      > was missing all this time. (lol) Everyone was excited because the
      > regional director, an 8th or 9th initiate was to lead the next
      > service. The crowd was bigger that month and I expected something
      > special. What I observed was a glib talking, energetic man who had
      > nothing much to say. He reminded me of a used car salesman. (no
      > offense to those in that trade) I was disappointed and knew that
      > something was wrong.
      >
      > My higher self started to come through more clearly as my doubts
      about
      > ekult increased. I noticed that the latest e-book had entire
      sections
      > of old material from previous publications. A tape entitled, "The
      Law
      > of Returns" featured a rambling klemp with no connection to the
      > subject of the title. I started to question his leadership. I
      compared
      > klem to the late Pope John Paul II. I saw a brave, loving,
      > compassionate man in John Paul. He faced danger and hardships under
      > the occupations of the Nazis and Communists. He survived an
      > assasiation attempt and met his attacker to forgive him. He suffered
      > with Parkinsons but still fulfilled his duties to his church to his
      > death. I was impressed by John Paul's devotion and humility and by
      the
      > love that he earned from people of all faiths. Then I looked at
      > harold. There was no comparison.
      >
      > According to ekult, Jesus Christ was no higher than a 2nd initiate.
      > Let's see- Jesus brought enlightenment to all who would listen (for
      > free). He was a radical in a dangerous time and place. He questioned
      > the authority of the powerful priests and pointed out their
      hypocracy,
      > greed and their unjust treatment of the poor, sick and powerless. He
      > was hated and killed for his efforts. He also forgave. Again, I
      looked
      > at harold. He is nothing in comparison. Harold is a weak, coniving,
      > delusional, liar. Read his teachings to see what an unforgiving,
      > uncaring man he is as he threatens and bullies his followers. He
      wants
      > worship, money and free labor from his flock. It would be totally
      > appropriate for joan to become the co-lem. Does anyone remember Jim
      > and Tammy Faye Baker and the PTL Club?
      >
      > While watching the movie "The Skeleton Key", I recognized an ekult
      > technique. Hoodoo was used by a character in the film but it only
      > worked if you could make your victim believe in it.
      >
      > Some of the ekists started to interfer with me in my dreams. They
      were
      > angry and told me that the mahanta would not allow my activities,
      > which were happy and peaceful. At this point, I found your website
      and
      > read everything that I could find. This confirmed my suspicions and
      I
      > cut ties with ekult immediately. After I mailed my resignation,I
      > received a paper from the esc to sign and explain (optional) my
      > reasons for resigning. I signed without explaining. Surely the
      > godman/lem/mahanta knows all. They then sent me another copy of the
      > mystic world that warned about leaving and all the troubles that
      > befall those who do. It didn't work because I know how HOODOO works.
      > My last dream involving ekult occurred shortly after. In this dream,
      > harold showed me a piece of paper, gave me a good frowning, then
      > signed the paper and showed it to me again. Good riddance!! I am
      much
      > happier since I've left ekult and feel like a burden has been
      lifted.
      > Don't let harold scare you.
      >
      > I hope this helps others as your posts helped me. I can't thank you
      > enough. Thank you for listening.
      >
      > free at last!
      > Kaye
      >
      Great testimony to the quirks and foibles of ECK, Kaye.
      I followed you up until you said you experienced "HooDoo" and Eckists
      (including Harold) appearing in your dreams?
      Is this part of the teachings you hold onto or could it be something
      of your own doing, subconciously. By believing this, you are
      presupposing that the cult has the ability to appear to you in the
      dream state. Could you clarify?

      Alf
    • Sharon
      (Sorry, typed this up yesterday morning but didn t get it sent!) Hi Kaye! Thanks for sharing your story, and welcome! I found it rather revealing that after
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 1, 2006
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        (Sorry, typed this up yesterday morning but didn't get it sent!)

        Hi Kaye!

        Thanks for sharing your story, and welcome!

        I found it rather revealing that after you resigned and confirmed your
        resignation by signing & returning their letter, they sent you a
        threat-filled "Mystic World". Did they do this because they love you?
        I think not.

        I didn't get a Mystic World, but my "sign & return" letter wanted to
        make sure I knew that I was doing, that I would lose all my
        initiations and have to start at the beginning if I changed my mind.
        Furthermore, I would not be allowed to re-join for six months.

        They didn't ask why I was leaving. They didn't have to. In spite of
        what the eckthugs say, MN most certainly *does* monitor a.r.e.

        You know, sometimes it's very difficult for me to remember that
        Klemp's a victim, too. But, we all have to be responsible for our
        choices - and Klemp made some bad ones. When he became LEM and set
        people to work looking into the plagiarism, and even discovered some
        plagiarism that still hasn't been exposed, he could have been honest
        about it. But he wasn't. He chose to continue the lies, and even
        added to them. He tightened the control. He increased the threats.
        He focused more on what would maintain & increase the numbers of
        members & donations.

        For example, what I think of as the "Club Med" letter in the Mystic
        World years back. He told people to cut down on the bed-hopping at
        seminars because it gave potential new recruits a bad impression!! I
        wondered why he didn't say anything "spiritual" - maybe a few words
        about the "spiritual aspects of sexuality, how the *outer* is a
        manifestation of the "inner", how Maybury's Laws apply. Now, I
        don't really remember the timing - since I didn't socialize with the
        local ecksts I missed a lot, so by the time I read what Klemp had to
        say about his divorce & remarriage it was probably old news. Isn't
        it a bit ironic that while Klemp was bitching about seminar-
        bedhopping, it might have been when he was still married to #1 but
        carrying on rather openly with his secretary/mistress, including
        traveling with her to seminars?

        Have to laugh, actually. When I joined, although I'd had a pre-cult
        dream "ecksperience" with Klemp that certainly seemed to "prove" that
        the "teachings" were true, I had "doubts" - my intent was originally
        just what the books said - prove it to yourself, and learn neat high-
        holey secret stuff on the "inner" as well as the "outer" by signing up
        & studying the discourses, etc. I *will* say one thing - yep,
        eventually all my questions were answered. Unfortunately, not the way
        the cult planned. When I got answers to all those questions I'd sort
        of kept filed away, I left! The answers were all the same - eckankar
        was b.s., and even worse than b.s.!

        Arrrghhh, just realized I'm doing it again, "yakking" with basically
        the same-old, same-old that I've typed umpteen million times since
        I've left but as usual, not typing it for a new website so I never
        ever have to do it again, and if necessary and if I have something
        relevant to say, I can simply direct people to the URL. I want to be
        a "Silent One"! And I'm laughing here again, my inner 11-year-old-
        boy always flashed to "Silent But Deadly" whenever they were
        mentioned. Hmmm....you know, maybe it wasn't my inner 11-year-old,
        maybe that was the true "inner master"? <gg>

        Anyway, while I'm here, a few odds & ends. First of all, I highly
        recommend a free e-book by a former Amway "high initiate". And I
        sincerely apologize to all those innocent victims I judged a bit
        harshly when I first saw Amway on cult lists. I was basically immune
        to all that MLM recruiting nonsense because my mother went from one to
        another, and I figured that anyone with the least bit of common sense
        could see them for what they are. I joined a few to help my mother,
        but they were simply part-time jobs - I'd go do my parties, and that
        was it. I didn't get nutsy about them. I had *no* interest in
        recruiting or doing anything more than a party or two every week or
        so, because I could see that the more involved you got, the more junk
        got piled up in your home, and any profits would go right back to the
        company.

        So, head over to: http://merchantsofdeception.com and download the
        book!! And if anyone out there has WebTV and can't use Adobe to
        read .pdf documents, I saved a copy in plain text so drop me a line &
        I'll send it to you.

        Although this book is useful to help former eckists learn more about
        how cults work, I think it's also great for current eckists - they can
        read it "detached" without having those cult-implanted mind-stoppers
        kick in, and perhaps in time things will "click" and they'll see how
        e-kult is no different.

        Sort of ironic - a couple years ago I saw a little counter display for
        "Seasilver", a liquid product that claimed to contain *all* nutrients
        known to man. Well, that's what I'd been looking for!!! The
        clerk and her family used it and swore by it, especially for
        allergies. So I contacted the distributor & got some, can't honestly
        say whether or not it really did do anything but it seemed to. I
        started "sharing" it simply because I thought it was a good product,
        but one *huge* problem was the promotional literature - you know, the
        usual "cures cancer & saved my life!" stuff. You know, when you've
        got a genuinely good product you don't need all that ridiculous
        "hype". If I gave someone a brochure, I felt embarrased - I told
        people to ignore the b.s.

        Well, very shortly afterwards, the FDA (or whoever) shut them down -
        the stuff supposedly had a cranberry juice base, but it turned out it
        didn't - it contained artificial cranberry flavoring. Can you
        imagine?? This was a *huge* lie!!!! And it wasn't even necessary,
        you know? But what was *more* amazing was the b.s. from the top!
        Honestly, the head of the company went on & on about government
        persecution, and even said that he was on a mission from God, God was
        on his side, Seasilver would "come back" bigger & better than ever,
        and everyone would get rich & live forever. Not one word about the
        fact that Seasilver claimed to contain cranberry juice, but didn't.
        What was even *more* amazing, I was on a little email list for my
        "sponsor's" distributor group - neither he nor anyone else said
        anything, asked questions - nothing!!!!

        Anyone who knows me, well.....<ggg>.... I posted something like - but
        there's no cranberry juice in it!!!

        I got *one* private email from someone asking me what I think they
        should do. Duh.

        Anyway, I just now did a quickie search on "Seasilver" - now, why the
        heck didn't I do that to begin with? In spite of everything, I guess
        I'm always going to be trusting, and start out assuming that everyone
        else is basically honest, just like me.

        Okay, while we're on the subject of health - Hi Mike!!! I could
        really get into chatting about food & health!! I've seen recent
        statistics that disturbed me a bit - how veggies don't contain the
        vitamins they had 50 years ago. Understandable - I've always been
        "into" organic gardening. A veggie can't contain nutrients that
        aren't in the soil they grow in. And vitamin levels in little kids,
        I think what I read said 5 year olds, are way down. On the other
        hand, over the years I've known a lot of people who live on junk food
        & white bread, etc., and they're a heck of a lot healthier than some
        lifelong "health food nuts" I've known!!

        Different people have different nutritional requirements, that's all.
        I happen to be allergic to wheat, which is sort of okay because I
        never really liked to eat bread and pasta. Probably because even as a
        kid, on some level I recognized I didn't feel good when I ate them.
        Makes sense, huh? <gg> Anyway, rather recently I've been eating a
        lot more bread than usual since I discovered a half-price Pepperidge
        Farm rack at a local grocery store!! <gg> I've sort of been
        "binging" - which for me means eating a whole mini-bagel or two slices
        of bread. Especially the cinnamon-raisin varieties. I can handle
        half a mini-bagel or one slice of bread okay, but anything more makes
        me feel like crap. But that's just me. My system does best on good
        old all-American red meat, especially fresh & raw.

        Anyway, a friend has been telling me how good sunflower seeds are in
        chicken salad and oatmeal, to mention just two, for a long time. And
        although I almost always have my jar of sunflower seeds handy - I
        refill it with less expensive no-additives bagged seeds - I just never
        thought to try her suggestions until a couple of days ago, when I
        remembered and tossed some into my chicken salad. Ohmigod, they were
        *so* good I added a lot more, and can't wait to try them in my
        oatmeal!!!! Try it, everyone!!!!

        Okay....on to something else now. I'm doing this here or it'll never
        get done - darn, right now, to be honest I don't remember if I'd
        posted at ESA or "Chains" last week, and had started on another one
        but never finished & posted it - so I'll just be brief here, I figure
        everyone here reads the other groups too - the possibility of Joan
        becoming the FLEM (thanks for that one, Liz, it's even funner than
        TWOT!!) was being discussed. Actually Gail was the first FLEM, just
        not "official". It's going to be interesting watching the situation
        & what happens in the future.

        You know, this could end up with history repeating itself! Will the
        time come when Harold is no longer able to handle the FLEM's mighty
        power flows, just like Mrs. Klemp couldn't handle his? <gg> Of
        course, it's highly unlikely that Harold is going to die in bed with a
        young hottie the way Twitch did, but maybe Joanie is already scanning
        seminar crowds for her Darwin? Will she be handing him a blue
        carnation one day?

        Mish, your noticing Klemp's mentioning Joan's appearing in members'
        dreams in the new "eckmasters" book, and thinking there's something
        more behind it, is *very* significant. I'm sure your instincts are
        right on the mark, and I'm glad you mentioned it! I've been "out"
        for a long time, and before that I was always "behind" with the books
        so I never saw much mention of her. Although way way back, I saw a
        video where he had laryngitis and had to whisper in her ear, and she
        repeated it. At the time, I thought that was very sweet. Have to
        laugh, though - when I found out about his ill health so long ago, I
        was also told he was getting better. Sometimes there's just so much
        "truth" in those little things we notice, even when they seem totally
        insignificant. Like, the story I read where Klemp said he'd "heard"
        about his daughter's graduation. Heard??? You know, divorce
        happens, and the sad truth is that a lot of men don't stay involved
        with their children when they're no longer sleeping with the mother,
        and especially when they have to pay child support. On the other
        hand, the reverse can be true - I know some totally awesome single
        dads, and "mothers" who just took off & dumped the kids, and I also
        know divorced couples who absolutely *despise* each other but still
        keep their children's welfare first and their personal feelings about
        each other to themselves. But either way, that one word, "heard",
        says a lot about the "Master of the Universe", doesn't it?

        Oh!!! Almost forgot - and to be honest, it may have been mentioned
        here and I may have missed it, but I recently "discovered" another new
        Yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spiritualsurvivor/

        Although this one was started by a former eckist, I don't believe I
        even saw e-kult mentioned by name, and it's not at all necessary.
        So far it looks like a good group with *lots* of potential, and I got
        very good feelings from it. Thanks, Ed, for starting it! I hope
        you get some members from the many other new-agey "master" cults out
        there, many of which are so small you can't really find much info on
        them, pro *or* con!

        And everyone, I'd just like to remind you that I appreciate when
        people announce new groups & add them to the "links" here - except
        when it's those darned pesky "religious spammers", but I catch 'em in
        "pending" so they don't get thru. At first I used to think these
        people had actually read a bit here at ET - for example, quite awhile
        back one of them slipped past me because I'm interested in Native
        American spirituality, but after trying to converse with the guy, it
        was obvious he was just a spammer. I'd left the link here though,
        but I'm pretty sure I removed it when recently a Native American told
        me that this particular person/website was one of the many phonies.

        You know, popping over to the other groups right now has made me think
        that it's not just that I'm not really keeping up with reading my
        "daily digests", I don't think I've been getting them.

        And right now I've gone way beyond my daily eckstuff limit <gg> and my
        mind is drifting far far away, so I'm going to close now. And
        although I've been "Thinking Spring", tomorrow is March lst so I want
        everyone to think "blizzard" - it'll be nice if March goes out like a
        lamb!!! Can't really complain, here in PA it hasn't really been a
        bad winter. Come to think of it, I don't think we got below zero at
        all, which is unusual for where I live.

        And Kaye, thanks again for posting & sharing your story!! Actually,
        it reminded me of some things, I might end up posting some more
        another time.

        Bye everyone!! Have a good one!!!

        Hugs,

        Sharon



        >
      • al_radzik
        Sharon, You don t need to write a book....you ve said everything you ve had to! Who else in the world can write about wheat allergies, divorce and
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 2, 2006
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          Sharon,
          You don't need to write a book....you've said everything you've had
          to!<GGG>
          Who else in the world can write about wheat allergies, divorce and
          Eckankar in one missive. You should get your own talk show.

          Alf

          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > (Sorry, typed this up yesterday morning but didn't get it sent!)
          >
          > Hi Kaye!
          >
          > Thanks for sharing your story, and welcome!
          >
          > I found it rather revealing that after you resigned and confirmed
          your
          > resignation by signing & returning their letter, they sent you a
          > threat-filled "Mystic World". Did they do this because they love
          you?
          > I think not.
          >
          > I didn't get a Mystic World, but my "sign & return" letter wanted
          to
          > make sure I knew that I was doing, that I would lose all my
          > initiations and have to start at the beginning if I changed my
          mind.
          > Furthermore, I would not be allowed to re-join for six months.
          >
          > They didn't ask why I was leaving. They didn't have to. In spite
          of
          > what the eckthugs say, MN most certainly *does* monitor a.r.e.
          >
          > You know, sometimes it's very difficult for me to remember that
          > Klemp's a victim, too. But, we all have to be responsible for our
          > choices - and Klemp made some bad ones. When he became LEM and set
          > people to work looking into the plagiarism, and even discovered
          some
          > plagiarism that still hasn't been exposed, he could have been
          honest
          > about it. But he wasn't. He chose to continue the lies, and even
          > added to them. He tightened the control. He increased the
          threats.
          > He focused more on what would maintain & increase the numbers of
          > members & donations.
          >
          > For example, what I think of as the "Club Med" letter in the Mystic
          > World years back. He told people to cut down on the bed-hopping at
          > seminars because it gave potential new recruits a bad impression!!
          I
          > wondered why he didn't say anything "spiritual" - maybe a few words
          > about the "spiritual aspects of sexuality, how the *outer* is a
          > manifestation of the "inner", how Maybury's Laws apply. Now, I
          > don't really remember the timing - since I didn't socialize with
          the
          > local ecksts I missed a lot, so by the time I read what Klemp had
          to
          > say about his divorce & remarriage it was probably old news.
          Isn't
          > it a bit ironic that while Klemp was bitching about seminar-
          > bedhopping, it might have been when he was still married to #1 but
          > carrying on rather openly with his secretary/mistress, including
          > traveling with her to seminars?
          >
          > Have to laugh, actually. When I joined, although I'd had a pre-
          cult
          > dream "ecksperience" with Klemp that certainly seemed to "prove"
          that
          > the "teachings" were true, I had "doubts" - my intent was
          originally
          > just what the books said - prove it to yourself, and learn neat
          high-
          > holey secret stuff on the "inner" as well as the "outer" by signing
          up
          > & studying the discourses, etc. I *will* say one thing - yep,
          > eventually all my questions were answered. Unfortunately, not the
          way
          > the cult planned. When I got answers to all those questions I'd
          sort
          > of kept filed away, I left! The answers were all the same -
          eckankar
          > was b.s., and even worse than b.s.!
          >
          > Arrrghhh, just realized I'm doing it again, "yakking" with
          basically
          > the same-old, same-old that I've typed umpteen million times since
          > I've left but as usual, not typing it for a new website so I never
          > ever have to do it again, and if necessary and if I have something
          > relevant to say, I can simply direct people to the URL. I want to
          be
          > a "Silent One"! And I'm laughing here again, my inner 11-year-
          old-
          > boy always flashed to "Silent But Deadly" whenever they were
          > mentioned. Hmmm....you know, maybe it wasn't my inner 11-year-
          old,
          > maybe that was the true "inner master"? <gg>
          >
          > Anyway, while I'm here, a few odds & ends. First of all, I
          highly
          > recommend a free e-book by a former Amway "high initiate". And I
          > sincerely apologize to all those innocent victims I judged a bit
          > harshly when I first saw Amway on cult lists. I was basically
          immune
          > to all that MLM recruiting nonsense because my mother went from one
          to
          > another, and I figured that anyone with the least bit of common
          sense
          > could see them for what they are. I joined a few to help my
          mother,
          > but they were simply part-time jobs - I'd go do my parties, and
          that
          > was it. I didn't get nutsy about them. I had *no* interest in
          > recruiting or doing anything more than a party or two every week or
          > so, because I could see that the more involved you got, the more
          junk
          > got piled up in your home, and any profits would go right back to
          the
          > company.
          >
          > So, head over to: http://merchantsofdeception.com and download the
          > book!! And if anyone out there has WebTV and can't use Adobe to
          > read .pdf documents, I saved a copy in plain text so drop me a line
          &
          > I'll send it to you.
          >
          > Although this book is useful to help former eckists learn more
          about
          > how cults work, I think it's also great for current eckists - they
          can
          > read it "detached" without having those cult-implanted mind-
          stoppers
          > kick in, and perhaps in time things will "click" and they'll see
          how
          > e-kult is no different.
          >
          > Sort of ironic - a couple years ago I saw a little counter display
          for
          > "Seasilver", a liquid product that claimed to contain *all*
          nutrients
          > known to man. Well, that's what I'd been looking for!!! The
          > clerk and her family used it and swore by it, especially for
          > allergies. So I contacted the distributor & got some, can't
          honestly
          > say whether or not it really did do anything but it seemed to. I
          > started "sharing" it simply because I thought it was a good
          product,
          > but one *huge* problem was the promotional literature - you know,
          the
          > usual "cures cancer & saved my life!" stuff. You know, when
          you've
          > got a genuinely good product you don't need all that ridiculous
          > "hype". If I gave someone a brochure, I felt embarrased - I told
          > people to ignore the b.s.
          >
          > Well, very shortly afterwards, the FDA (or whoever) shut them down -

          > the stuff supposedly had a cranberry juice base, but it turned out
          it
          > didn't - it contained artificial cranberry flavoring. Can you
          > imagine?? This was a *huge* lie!!!! And it wasn't even
          necessary,
          > you know? But what was *more* amazing was the b.s. from the
          top!
          > Honestly, the head of the company went on & on about government
          > persecution, and even said that he was on a mission from God, God
          was
          > on his side, Seasilver would "come back" bigger & better than ever,
          > and everyone would get rich & live forever. Not one word about
          the
          > fact that Seasilver claimed to contain cranberry juice, but
          didn't.
          > What was even *more* amazing, I was on a little email list for my
          > "sponsor's" distributor group - neither he nor anyone else said
          > anything, asked questions - nothing!!!!
          >
          > Anyone who knows me, well.....<ggg>.... I posted something like -
          but
          > there's no cranberry juice in it!!!
          >
          > I got *one* private email from someone asking me what I think they
          > should do. Duh.
          >
          > Anyway, I just now did a quickie search on "Seasilver" - now, why
          the
          > heck didn't I do that to begin with? In spite of everything, I
          guess
          > I'm always going to be trusting, and start out assuming that
          everyone
          > else is basically honest, just like me.
          >
          > Okay, while we're on the subject of health - Hi Mike!!! I could
          > really get into chatting about food & health!! I've seen recent
          > statistics that disturbed me a bit - how veggies don't contain the
          > vitamins they had 50 years ago. Understandable - I've always been
          > "into" organic gardening. A veggie can't contain nutrients that
          > aren't in the soil they grow in. And vitamin levels in little
          kids,
          > I think what I read said 5 year olds, are way down. On the other
          > hand, over the years I've known a lot of people who live on junk
          food
          > & white bread, etc., and they're a heck of a lot healthier than
          some
          > lifelong "health food nuts" I've known!!
          >
          > Different people have different nutritional requirements, that's
          all.
          > I happen to be allergic to wheat, which is sort of okay because I
          > never really liked to eat bread and pasta. Probably because even
          as a
          > kid, on some level I recognized I didn't feel good when I ate
          them.
          > Makes sense, huh? <gg> Anyway, rather recently I've been eating
          a
          > lot more bread than usual since I discovered a half-price
          Pepperidge
          > Farm rack at a local grocery store!! <gg> I've sort of been
          > "binging" - which for me means eating a whole mini-bagel or two
          slices
          > of bread. Especially the cinnamon-raisin varieties. I can
          handle
          > half a mini-bagel or one slice of bread okay, but anything more
          makes
          > me feel like crap. But that's just me. My system does best on
          good
          > old all-American red meat, especially fresh & raw.
          >
          > Anyway, a friend has been telling me how good sunflower seeds are
          in
          > chicken salad and oatmeal, to mention just two, for a long time.
          And
          > although I almost always have my jar of sunflower seeds handy - I
          > refill it with less expensive no-additives bagged seeds - I just
          never
          > thought to try her suggestions until a couple of days ago, when I
          > remembered and tossed some into my chicken salad. Ohmigod, they
          were
          > *so* good I added a lot more, and can't wait to try them in my
          > oatmeal!!!! Try it, everyone!!!!
          >
          > Okay....on to something else now. I'm doing this here or it'll
          never
          > get done - darn, right now, to be honest I don't remember if I'd
          > posted at ESA or "Chains" last week, and had started on another one
          > but never finished & posted it - so I'll just be brief here, I
          figure
          > everyone here reads the other groups too - the possibility of Joan
          > becoming the FLEM (thanks for that one, Liz, it's even funner than
          > TWOT!!) was being discussed. Actually Gail was the first FLEM,
          just
          > not "official". It's going to be interesting watching the
          situation
          > & what happens in the future.
          >
          > You know, this could end up with history repeating itself! Will
          the
          > time come when Harold is no longer able to handle the FLEM's mighty
          > power flows, just like Mrs. Klemp couldn't handle his? <gg> Of
          > course, it's highly unlikely that Harold is going to die in bed
          with a
          > young hottie the way Twitch did, but maybe Joanie is already
          scanning
          > seminar crowds for her Darwin? Will she be handing him a blue
          > carnation one day?
          >
          > Mish, your noticing Klemp's mentioning Joan's appearing in members'
          > dreams in the new "eckmasters" book, and thinking there's something
          > more behind it, is *very* significant. I'm sure your instincts
          are
          > right on the mark, and I'm glad you mentioned it! I've
          been "out"
          > for a long time, and before that I was always "behind" with the
          books
          > so I never saw much mention of her. Although way way back, I saw
          a
          > video where he had laryngitis and had to whisper in her ear, and
          she
          > repeated it. At the time, I thought that was very sweet. Have to
          > laugh, though - when I found out about his ill health so long ago,
          I
          > was also told he was getting better. Sometimes there's just so
          much
          > "truth" in those little things we notice, even when they seem
          totally
          > insignificant. Like, the story I read where Klemp said
          he'd "heard"
          > about his daughter's graduation. Heard??? You know, divorce
          > happens, and the sad truth is that a lot of men don't stay involved
          > with their children when they're no longer sleeping with the
          mother,
          > and especially when they have to pay child support. On the other
          > hand, the reverse can be true - I know some totally awesome single
          > dads, and "mothers" who just took off & dumped the kids, and I also
          > know divorced couples who absolutely *despise* each other but still
          > keep their children's welfare first and their personal feelings
          about
          > each other to themselves. But either way, that one word, "heard",
          > says a lot about the "Master of the Universe", doesn't it?
          >
          > Oh!!! Almost forgot - and to be honest, it may have been mentioned
          > here and I may have missed it, but I recently "discovered" another
          new
          > Yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spiritualsurvivor/
          >
          > Although this one was started by a former eckist, I don't believe I
          > even saw e-kult mentioned by name, and it's not at all
          necessary.
          > So far it looks like a good group with *lots* of potential, and I
          got
          > very good feelings from it. Thanks, Ed, for starting it! I hope
          > you get some members from the many other new-agey "master" cults
          out
          > there, many of which are so small you can't really find much info
          on
          > them, pro *or* con!
          >
          > And everyone, I'd just like to remind you that I appreciate when
          > people announce new groups & add them to the "links" here - except
          > when it's those darned pesky "religious spammers", but I catch 'em
          in
          > "pending" so they don't get thru. At first I used to think these
          > people had actually read a bit here at ET - for example, quite
          awhile
          > back one of them slipped past me because I'm interested in Native
          > American spirituality, but after trying to converse with the guy,
          it
          > was obvious he was just a spammer. I'd left the link here though,
          > but I'm pretty sure I removed it when recently a Native American
          told
          > me that this particular person/website was one of the many
          phonies.
          >
          > You know, popping over to the other groups right now has made me
          think
          > that it's not just that I'm not really keeping up with reading my
          > "daily digests", I don't think I've been getting them.
          >
          > And right now I've gone way beyond my daily eckstuff limit <gg> and
          my
          > mind is drifting far far away, so I'm going to close now. And
          > although I've been "Thinking Spring", tomorrow is March lst so I
          want
          > everyone to think "blizzard" - it'll be nice if March goes out like
          a
          > lamb!!! Can't really complain, here in PA it hasn't really been
          a
          > bad winter. Come to think of it, I don't think we got below zero
          at
          > all, which is unusual for where I live.
          >
          > And Kaye, thanks again for posting & sharing your story!!
          Actually,
          > it reminded me of some things, I might end up posting some more
          > another time.
          >
          > Bye everyone!! Have a good one!!!
          >
          > Hugs,
          >
          > Sharon
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Kaye, I ve enjoyed your posts very much! Just curious, but who was this regional director or RESA? It sounds like it could have been Bob Lawton or Don
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 2, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Kaye,
            I've enjoyed your posts very much! Just curious, but who was
            this "regional director" or RESA? It sounds like it could have been
            Bob Lawton or Don Ginn. The "Hoodoo" sounds more like Voodoo which
            is how the Mahanta controls Eckists by suggesting WHAT they may or
            may not experience or think if constant surrender and tunnel vision
            is Not maintained. Yes, Klemp is Not much of a public figure to
            model one's Self around. Yet, he seems to want attention since he
            pays to be listed in Who's Who! Then again, anyone could be listed
            for a fee! Sometimes, when thinking of Klemp, I will give thanks and
            say... 'there but by the Grace of God go I.' <smile>

            Prometheus

            eyesopen wrote:

            Hello sharon and fellow ex-eckists,

            I left ecult in the fall of 2005 after 15+ years. I was not an active
            eckist-stricktly books and discourses. I did't attend satsang or
            seminars after the first year or two. As the years went by I found
            the discourses increasingly difficult to study and had few results
            with the spiritual exercises. I decided to go to an eck service and
            meet some of the eckists. There were less than a dozen of them and
            they did not appear to be especially spiritual. The service was
            uninspiring and the participants strained to come up with some
            stories or words of wisdom that related to the service's spiritual
            subject. I saw what I was missing all this time. (lol) Everyone was
            excited because the regional director, an 8th or 9th initiate was to
            lead the next service. The crowd was bigger that month and I
            expected something special. What I observed was a glib talking,
            energetic man who had nothing much to say. He reminded me of a used
            car salesman. (no offense to those in that trade) I was disappointed
            and knew that something was wrong.

            My higher self started to come through more clearly as my doubts
            about ekult increased. I noticed that the latest e-book had entire
            sections of old material from previous publications. A tape
            entitled, "The Law of Returns" featured a rambling klemp with no
            connection to the subject of the title. I started to question his
            leadership. I compared klem to the late Pope John Paul II. I saw a
            brave, loving, compassionate man in John Paul. He faced danger and
            hardships under the occupations of the Nazis and Communists. He
            survived an assasiation attempt and met his attacker to forgive him.
            He suffered with Parkinsons but still fulfilled his duties to his
            church to his death. I was impressed by John Paul's devotion and
            humility and by the love that he earned from people of all faiths.
            Then I looked at harold. There was no comparison.

            According to ekult, Jesus Christ was no higher than a 2nd initiate.
            Let's see- Jesus brought enlightenment to all who would listen (for
            free). He was a radical in a dangerous time and place. He questioned
            the authority of the powerful priests and pointed out their
            hypocracy, greed and their unjust treatment of the poor, sick and
            powerless. He was hated and killed for his efforts. He also forgave.
            Again, I looked at harold. He is nothing in comparison. Harold is a
            weak, coniving, delusional, liar. Read his teachings to see what an
            unforgiving, uncaring man he is as he threatens and bullies his
            followers. He wants worship, money and free labor from his flock. It
            would be totally appropriate for joan to become the co-lem. Does
            anyone remember Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and the PTL Club?

            While watching the movie "The Skeleton Key", I recognized an ekult
            technique. Hoodoo was used by a character in the film but it only
            worked if you could make your victim believe in it.

            Some of the ekists started to interfer with me in my dreams. They
            were angry and told me that the mahanta would not allow my
            activities, which were happy and peaceful. At this point, I found
            your website and read everything that I could find. This confirmed
            my suspicions and I cut ties with ekult immediately. After I mailed
            my resignation,I received a paper from the esc to sign and explain
            (optional) my reasons for resigning. I signed without explaining.
            Surely the godman/lem/mahanta knows all. They then sent me another
            copy of the mystic world that warned about leaving and all the
            troubles that befall those who do. It didn't work because I know how
            HOODOO works. My last dream involving ekult occurred shortly after.
            In this dream, harold showed me a piece of paper, gave me a good
            frowning, then signed the paper and showed it to me again. Good
            riddance!! I am much happier since I've left ekult and feel like a
            burden has been lifted. Don't let harold scare you.

            I hope this helps others as your posts helped me. I can't thank you
            enough. Thank you for listening.

            free at last!
            Kaye
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