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Re: Ford Johnson's Focus on "Sri" Michael Owens

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  • l2eigh
    ... cult-like ... Hi folks and Mish, Hi Sharon: What MIsh says here has been mentioneed fairly frequently lately. Particularly in Eckankar Survivors Anonymous.
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
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      > I have seen some members' posts on HCS/TS in which certain
      cult-like
      > beliefs are being presented and pushed: Cassiopaea, David Icke and
      > TRANCE Formation of America to name a few. And then there was the
      > suggestion of spending time and money investigating Adam
      > Dreamhealer. One should check out the links posted on the HCS Youth
      > and Creative Arts site to see what is being allowed to be promoted.
      > There's a lot of psychic stuff too. To me, this is all misleading
      > and confusing for ex-Eckists who are trying to find their way after
      > leaving the cult. Some of these things (conspiracy/mind control
      > groups) are more insidious than Eckankar.


      Hi folks and Mish, Hi Sharon:
      What MIsh says here has
      been mentioneed fairly frequently
      lately. Particularly in Eckankar Survivors Anonymous. I think Ford is
      a closet alien/ET and
      associated stuff affectionado, believer, fan, whatever. Look at what
      took him out of
      Eckankar. Graham's journal. Have you read it? The tenor, the flavor
      of the thing, is right on
      the edge of the alien/ET experience.
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Colleen, Yes, it does seem you did Not have as long of an Eck experience as many of us did, and your memory is of events that took place pre-973 and many
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
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        Hi Colleen,

        Yes, it does seem you did Not have as long of an "Eck" experience as
        many of us did, and your memory is of events that took place pre-973
        and many years ago as well. You missed all of those years with the
        Klempster, and the re-making of Eckankar.



        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, colleen <colleenmft@y...> wrote:

        >>Did anyone know or hear about Michael Owens? I'd say Ford Johnson
        has some competition.


        I never heard of Michael Owens until Ford put the info on him up on
        his site. I don't know what you mean by competition? If anyone has
        competition with Michael Owens it would be Klemp! Don't get me wrong
        by thinking I'm a big FJ supporter because I'm not, but let's not
        compare apples to oranges either.

        Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Leigh, I completely agree with you about Ford. I also agree with what Mish has said about the conspiracy mind control cultists promoted on Ford s BBs. I was
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
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          Hi Leigh,

          I completely agree with you about Ford. I also agree with what Mish
          has said about the conspiracy mind control cultists promoted on
          Ford's BBs. I was also surprised when I read about Ford's views on
          communicating with aliens ("denizens") on the inner planes. What is
          the difference with that and communicating with a "Master" who is
          actually You as the true Inner Master or God-soul? Does Ford know
          the difference, or is it just one's own delusion and possibly
          confusion? It is interesting, to a degree, to hear about such
          theories or opinions. But, then again, one's own opinion is no
          greater than another's is it? This is the real Truth that many
          cannot see!


          Prometheus



          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh" <lgrif@m...> wrote:
          >
          > > I have seen some members' posts on HCS/TS in which certain
          > cult-like
          > > beliefs are being presented and pushed: Cassiopaea, David Icke
          and
          > > TRANCE Formation of America to name a few. And then there was
          the
          > > suggestion of spending time and money investigating Adam
          > > Dreamhealer. One should check out the links posted on the HCS
          Youth
          > > and Creative Arts site to see what is being allowed to be
          promoted.
          > > There's a lot of psychic stuff too. To me, this is all
          misleading
          > > and confusing for ex-Eckists who are trying to find their way
          after
          > > leaving the cult. Some of these things (conspiracy/mind control
          > > groups) are more insidious than Eckankar.
          >
          >
          > Hi folks and Mish, Hi Sharon:
          > What MIsh says here
          has
          > been mentioneed fairly frequently
          > lately. Particularly in Eckankar Survivors Anonymous. I think Ford
          is
          > a closet alien/ET and
          > associated stuff affectionado, believer, fan, whatever. Look at
          what
          > took him out of
          > Eckankar. Graham's journal. Have you read it? The tenor, the flavor
          > of the thing, is right on
          > the edge of the alien/ET experience.
        • colleenmft
          Leigh: You said: I ve been trying to get more information on the ... My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours. If he supports others
          Message 4 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
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            Leigh:
            You said:

            "I've been trying to get more information on the
            > Owens group myself without
            > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
            > the consciousness"
            > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
            > very anti Master, you're the
            > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."

            My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours. If he
            supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it only
            when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's "anti-master", he
            may use those words but have contradictory messages.

            Colleen
          • l2eigh
            Hi Prometheus: You know, the irony is that the way he (Ford J.) lays out what the nuts and bolts of an inner experience is, there is no difference. You should
            Message 5 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
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              Hi Prometheus:
              You know, the irony is that the way he (Ford J.) lays out what the nuts and
              bolts of an inner experience is, there is no difference. You should post the question on the
              HCS board i.e. "what's the difference between an inner experience with an alien race and
              the inner experience with a 'spiritual Master'?" I think the answer (according to the
              formula) will be "none". That both are a mockup, a presentation, being made by your
              "Higher Self". Yeah, but this (then) falls back into the old formula. (Say) it IS your Higher
              Self. What kind of experiencce is it mocking up? A "psychic" one or a "spiritual" one? La de
              da da, yada, yada, yada.


              -- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@y...>
              wrote:
              > Hi Leigh,
              >
              > I completely agree with you about Ford. I also agree with what Mish
              > has said about the conspiracy mind control cultists promoted on
              > Ford's BBs. I was also surprised when I read about Ford's views on
              > communicating with aliens ("denizens") on the inner planes. What is
              > the difference with that and communicating with a "Master" who is
              > actually You as the true Inner Master or God-soul? Does Ford know
              > the difference, or is it just one's own delusion and possibly
              > confusion? It is interesting, to a degree, to hear about such
              > theories or opinions. But, then again, one's own opinion is no
              > greater than another's is it? This is the real Truth that many
              > cannot see!
              >
              >
              > Prometheus
            • l2eigh
              Hi Colleen: I was just posting about the differences. Michael Owens apparently believes he s recieved The Rod of ECK Power and that he is the Mahanta ,
              Message 6 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
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                Hi Colleen:
                I was just posting about the differences. Michael Owens apparently believes he's
                recieved "The Rod of ECK Power" and that he is the "Mahanta", though of course he has to
                come up with a different vocabulary for everything for legal reasons. Ford's approach
                (from his book, and subsequent opinions and views posted on his bulletin boards) is
                "quite" unlike that.
                It's not that I'm insensitive to how you feel about F.J.. On the other hand, you've
                got to realize you started all that with a man with an ego, who's a lawyer as well, who just
                tossed overboard something he'd put himself into in a big way for thirty years and was
                struggling with a replacement for all that, in his life. Irrational, delusional, or not, I don't
                think I'd want to get between a hungry, nervous, tired, (and frightened?) dog, and whatever
                he was chewing on, whether it was a bone, or not. Overreaction from him? Sure. But then,
                you're a professional. More than anyone you should understand how this all came down, in
                a behavioral context. I'm sorry you got flamed. If this is doing you some serious harm in
                terms of your personal integrity or professionally I'd sue to have him "cease and desist".
                Otherwise, hey, "consider the source". His isn't a support group. But then it never claimed
                to be as far as I know. I really don't undrstand how it defines itself. But, what would you
                like to do at this point?


                --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
                > Leigh:
                > You said:
                >
                > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                > > Owens group myself without
                > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
                > > the consciousness"
                > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
                > > very anti Master, you're the
                > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                >
                > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours. If he
                > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it only
                > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's "anti-master", he
                > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                >
                > Colleen
              • tygerpurr
                ... Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal experience with the Higher Con Society bunch. Ford Johnson is most definitely the
                Message 7 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
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                  --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > Leigh:
                  > You said:
                  >
                  > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                  > > Owens group myself without
                  > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
                  > > the consciousness"
                  > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
                  > > very anti Master, you're the
                  > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                  >
                  > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours. If he
                  > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it only
                  > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's "anti-master", he
                  > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                  >
                  > Colleen

                  Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal
                  experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson is most
                  definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him in one
                  way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done some
                  good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second half is just
                  another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become incredibly
                  boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.

                  THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is Gary
                  Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow the same
                  roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat etc. and
                  I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag of tricks
                  and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.

                  I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant added in.
                  He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest of us
                  humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes, etc. . "How
                  convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night Live)

                  Tyger

                  Question Stupid Authority
                • mishmisha9
                  Ford did express that he has communicated with alien denizens in other worlds in a post of HCS, and that was the thing that really ruined HCS for me. I also
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
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                    Ford did express that he has communicated with alien denizens in
                    other worlds in a post of HCS, and that was the thing that really
                    ruined HCS for me. I also think that Ford is allowing all these
                    different interests to be promoted on his BBs as a way to draw more
                    people onto his site--quantity vs. quality thinking, I guess. It's
                    kind of like being back in kindergarten. I didn't think one had to
                    revert back to a more primitive way of thinking and start over from
                    square one. I believe that one can move on beyond Eckankar or
                    whatever without having to regress, because after all, we were
                    evolving while in the org. and we continue to evolve--we just need
                    to recognize this in ourselves. Anyway, I'm free . . . again!

                    Mish

                    --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh" <lgrif@m...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > I have seen some members' posts on HCS/TS in which certain
                    > cult-like
                    > > beliefs are being presented and pushed: Cassiopaea, David Icke
                    and
                    > > TRANCE Formation of America to name a few. And then there was
                    the
                    > > suggestion of spending time and money investigating Adam
                    > > Dreamhealer. One should check out the links posted on the HCS
                    Youth
                    > > and Creative Arts site to see what is being allowed to be
                    promoted.
                    > > There's a lot of psychic stuff too. To me, this is all
                    misleading
                    > > and confusing for ex-Eckists who are trying to find their way
                    after
                    > > leaving the cult. Some of these things (conspiracy/mind control
                    > > groups) are more insidious than Eckankar.
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi folks and Mish, Hi Sharon:
                    > What MIsh says here
                    has
                    > been mentioneed fairly frequently
                    > lately. Particularly in Eckankar Survivors Anonymous. I think Ford
                    is
                    > a closet alien/ET and
                    > associated stuff affectionado, believer, fan, whatever. Look at
                    what
                    > took him out of
                    > Eckankar. Graham's journal. Have you read it? The tenor, the flavor
                    > of the thing, is right on
                    > the edge of the alien/ET experience.
                  • mishmisha9
                    Hi, Leigh! Good observation on Ford s interest in aliens and ets. I didn t notice this until recently, but it seems rather obvious now. Well, that s okay for
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
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                      Hi, Leigh!

                      Good observation on Ford's interest in aliens and ets. I didn't
                      notice this until recently, but it seems rather obvious now. Well,
                      that's okay for him. I suppose he doesn't believe that the
                      world/government leaders are reptilians as some people believe?


                      Mish

                      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh" <lgrif@m...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I have seen some members' posts on HCS/TS in which certain
                      > cult-like
                      > > beliefs are being presented and pushed: Cassiopaea, David Icke
                      and
                      > > TRANCE Formation of America to name a few. And then there was
                      the
                      > > suggestion of spending time and money investigating Adam
                      > > Dreamhealer. One should check out the links posted on the HCS
                      Youth
                      > > and Creative Arts site to see what is being allowed to be
                      promoted.
                      > > There's a lot of psychic stuff too. To me, this is all
                      misleading
                      > > and confusing for ex-Eckists who are trying to find their way
                      after
                      > > leaving the cult. Some of these things (conspiracy/mind control
                      > > groups) are more insidious than Eckankar.
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi folks and Mish, Hi Sharon:
                      > What MIsh says here
                      has
                      > been mentioneed fairly frequently
                      > lately. Particularly in Eckankar Survivors Anonymous. I think Ford
                      is
                      > a closet alien/ET and
                      > associated stuff affectionado, believer, fan, whatever. Look at
                      what
                      > took him out of
                      > Eckankar. Graham's journal. Have you read it? The tenor, the flavor
                      > of the thing, is right on
                      > the edge of the alien/ET experience.
                    • tygerpurr
                      I think these splinter cults are really despicable and in some ways even more duplicitous than the first eckankar con. These people must really be deluded and
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
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                        I think these splinter cults are really despicable and in some ways
                        even more duplicitous than the first eckankar con. These people must
                        really be deluded and narcissistic to create a con of a con. Do they
                        actually believe in their own hype? I wonder what their rationale is?

                        Tyger

                        Question Authority!

                        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > Leigh:
                        > > You said:
                        > >
                        > > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                        > > > Owens group myself without
                        > > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
                        > > > the consciousness"
                        > > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
                        > > > very anti Master, you're the
                        > > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                        > >
                        > > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours. If he
                        > > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it only
                        > > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's "anti-master", he
                        > > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                        > >
                        > > Colleen
                        >
                        > Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal
                        > experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson is most
                        > definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him in one
                        > way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done some
                        > good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second half is just
                        > another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become incredibly
                        > boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.
                        >
                        > THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is Gary
                        > Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow the same
                        > roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat etc. and
                        > I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag of tricks
                        > and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.
                        >
                        > I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant added in.
                        > He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest of us
                        > humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes, etc. . "How
                        > convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night Live)
                        >
                        > Tyger
                        >
                        > Question Stupid Authority
                      • tygerpurr
                        Or should I say rationalization? ... If he ... only ... anti-master , he
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
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                          Or should I say rationalization?

                          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > I think these splinter cults are really despicable and in some ways
                          > even more duplicitous than the first eckankar con. These people must
                          > really be deluded and narcissistic to create a con of a con. Do they
                          > actually believe in their own hype? I wonder what their rationale is?
                          >
                          > Tyger
                          >
                          > Question Authority!
                          >
                          > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > > Leigh:
                          > > > You said:
                          > > >
                          > > > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                          > > > > Owens group myself without
                          > > > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
                          > > > > the consciousness"
                          > > > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
                          > > > > very anti Master, you're the
                          > > > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                          > > >
                          > > > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours.
                          If he
                          > > > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it
                          only
                          > > > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's
                          "anti-master", he
                          > > > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                          > > >
                          > > > Colleen
                          > >
                          > > Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal
                          > > experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson is most
                          > > definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him in one
                          > > way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done some
                          > > good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second half is just
                          > > another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become incredibly
                          > > boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.
                          > >
                          > > THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is Gary
                          > > Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow the same
                          > > roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat etc. and
                          > > I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag of tricks
                          > > and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.
                          > >
                          > > I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant added in.
                          > > He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest of us
                          > > humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes, etc. . "How
                          > > convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night Live)
                          > >
                          > > Tyger
                          > >
                          > > Question Stupid Authority
                        • colleenmft
                          Hi Tiger.... Don t forget Jerry Mulvin, who was a popular Mahdis in eckankar through the 70 s who left to begin his own Soul Travel teaching . He also
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
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                            Hi Tiger....

                            Don't forget Jerry Mulvin, who was a popular "Mahdis" in eckankar
                            through the '70's who left to begin his own "Soul
                            Travel" "teaching". He also took several other dedicated "eckists"
                            (volunteering hours and hours of time) with him. More recently, he
                            was convicted on charges regarding child pornography and was given a
                            lifetime probation as a registered sex offender. This ended his
                            career, as far as I know, of leading souls into the "higher
                            spiritual worlds"....but, as others have, perhaps he could resume
                            his passion(s) again.

                            Colleen

                            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...>
                            wrote:
                            > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft"
                            <colleenmft@y...>
                            > wrote:
                            > > Leigh:
                            > > You said:
                            > >
                            > > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                            > > > Owens group myself without
                            > > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa
                            and "raising
                            > > > the consciousness"
                            > > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is
                            into a
                            > > > very anti Master, you're the
                            > > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                            > >
                            > > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours.
                            If he
                            > > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it
                            only
                            > > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's "anti-
                            master", he
                            > > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                            > >
                            > > Colleen
                            >
                            > Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal
                            > experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson is
                            most
                            > definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him in one
                            > way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done
                            some
                            > good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second half is
                            just
                            > another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become
                            incredibly
                            > boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.
                            >
                            > THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is Gary
                            > Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow the
                            same
                            > roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat etc. and
                            > I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag of
                            tricks
                            > and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.
                            >
                            > I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant added
                            in.
                            > He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest of us
                            > humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes, etc. . "How
                            > convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night Live)
                            >
                            > Tyger
                            >
                            > Question Stupid Authority
                          • prometheus_973
                            Hello Tiger and Leigh, ... up bowing to him in one way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done some good, at least the first half of it,
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
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                              Hello Tiger and Leigh,

                              --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...>
                              wrote:

                              >>Ford Johnson is most definitely the Authority figure and all end
                              up bowing to him in one way or another as the final arbiter. His
                              book certainly has done some good, at least the first half of it,
                              IMHO,but the second half is just another cultish dogma to learn ;-).

                              Yes, the first half of Ford's book is very good for debunking
                              Eckankar. David Lane just did not have an insider's perspective or
                              the credibility of Ford (for Eckists), but Lane did do a lot of
                              sound research which Ford and others have used.

                              >>The HCS BB has become incredibly boring as a result, especially
                              Betty and Mario.

                              Yes, Betty and Mario (wife and husband) have dominated Ford's BBs
                              from the very start with their own conspiracy/psychic agendas. It's
                              incredible how Ford has permitted Betty's endless disjointed
                              rantings! This is the main reason why I (and possibly others) left
                              those sites. One could not express a differing opinion without being
                              attacked by the rabid neo post Eckankar reptillian zombies from
                              Canada. And, Leigh, this is why I refuse to post on those BBs, or to
                              even send Ford a private email.

                              Prometheus
                            • C.Hutcheson
                              Hi everyone Which in your opinion is more narcissist an Eckist who seeks the best for the greater good or a former Eckist that criticizes Eckankar because
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
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                                Hi everyone

                                Which in your opinion is more "narcissist" an Eckist who seeks the best
                                for the greater good or a former Eckist that criticizes Eckankar because
                                the excesses of a few (and usually former) Eckists.

                                As it has been said very many times before "judge not less you be
                                judged" (presumably by one's higher-self).

                                This web-site for the time that I have been a silent observer does not
                                provide much help those that continue to seek for the truth, only those
                                that seek to justify their own opinions.

                                Simple Simon






                                fromer tygerpurr wrote:

                                > Or should I say rationalization?
                                >
                                > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                > > I think these splinter cults are really despicable and in some ways
                                > > even more duplicitous than the first eckankar con. These people must
                                > > really be deluded and narcissistic to create a con of a con. Do they
                                > > actually believe in their own hype? I wonder what their rationale is?
                                > >
                                > > Tyger
                                > >
                                > > Question Authority!
                                > >
                                > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
                                > > > wrote:
                                > > > > Leigh:
                                > > > > You said:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                                > > > > > Owens group myself without
                                > > > > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
                                > > > > > the consciousness"
                                > > > > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
                                > > > > > very anti Master, you're the
                                > > > > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                                > > > >
                                > > > > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours.
                                > If he
                                > > > > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it
                                > only
                                > > > > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's
                                > "anti-master", he
                                > > > > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Colleen
                                > > >
                                > > > Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal
                                > > > experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson is most
                                > > > definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him in one
                                > > > way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done some
                                > > > good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second half is just
                                > > > another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become incredibly
                                > > > boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.
                                > > >
                                > > > THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is Gary
                                > > > Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow the same
                                > > > roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat etc. and
                                > > > I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag of tricks
                                > > > and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.
                                > > >
                                > > > I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant added in.
                                > > > He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest of us
                                > > > humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes, etc. . "How
                                > > > convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night Live)
                                > > >
                                > > > Tyger
                                > > >
                                > > > Question Stupid Authority
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                                >
                                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/
                                >
                                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > eckankartruth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                > <mailto:eckankartruth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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                                >
                              • tygerpurr
                                Well put Prometheus! LOL: One could not express a differing opinion without being attacked by the rabid neo post Eckankar reptillian zombies from Canada. And,
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
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                                  Well put Prometheus! LOL:

                                  "One could not express a differing opinion without being
                                  attacked by the rabid neo post Eckankar reptillian zombies from
                                  Canada. And, Leigh, this is why I refuse to post on those BBs..."

                                  Tyger

                                  P.S. Leigh I have some ideas as a response to your qestion, but it may
                                  take a few days.

                                  --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                  <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
                                  > Hello Tiger and Leigh,
                                  >
                                  > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >>Ford Johnson is most definitely the Authority figure and all end
                                  > up bowing to him in one way or another as the final arbiter. His
                                  > book certainly has done some good, at least the first half of it,
                                  > IMHO,but the second half is just another cultish dogma to learn ;-).
                                  >
                                  > Yes, the first half of Ford's book is very good for debunking
                                  > Eckankar. David Lane just did not have an insider's perspective or
                                  > the credibility of Ford (for Eckists), but Lane did do a lot of
                                  > sound research which Ford and others have used.
                                  >
                                  > >>The HCS BB has become incredibly boring as a result, especially
                                  > Betty and Mario.
                                  >
                                  > Yes, Betty and Mario (wife and husband) have dominated Ford's BBs
                                  > from the very start with their own conspiracy/psychic agendas. It's
                                  > incredible how Ford has permitted Betty's endless disjointed
                                  > rantings! This is the main reason why I (and possibly others) left
                                  > those sites. One could not express a differing opinion without being
                                  > attacked by the rabid neo post Eckankar reptillian zombies from
                                  > Canada. And, Leigh, this is why I refuse to post on those BBs, or to
                                  > even send Ford a private email.
                                  >
                                  > Prometheus
                                • mishmisha9
                                  Well, I have to say Eckists are delusional and narcissistic just as your post reflects. : ) As for judge not less you be judged , isn t this what you are
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jun 21, 2005
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                                    Well, I have to say Eckists are delusional and narcissistic just as
                                    your post reflects. : )

                                    As for "judge not less you be judged", isn't this what you are doing
                                    here? Therefore, this is even more evidence of being delusional and
                                    narcissistic. Obviously, Eckists are incapable of critical thinking
                                    and are to remain the eternal followers of false masters.

                                    It seems that you are not ready to seek the truth, because you don't
                                    want to know the truth since with the truth comes responsibility and
                                    ownership of behavior in taking charge of your own life as your own
                                    master.

                                    And a good day to you!

                                    Mish

                                    --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "C.Hutcheson" <futursoft@s...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > Hi everyone
                                    >
                                    > Which in your opinion is more "narcissist" an Eckist who seeks the
                                    best
                                    > for the greater good or a former Eckist that criticizes Eckankar
                                    because
                                    > the excesses of a few (and usually former) Eckists.
                                    >
                                    > As it has been said very many times before "judge not less you be
                                    > judged" (presumably by one's higher-self).
                                    >
                                    > This web-site for the time that I have been a silent observer does
                                    not
                                    > provide much help those that continue to seek for the truth, only
                                    those
                                    > that seek to justify their own opinions.
                                    >
                                    > Simple Simon
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > fromer tygerpurr wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Or should I say rationalization?
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > > > I think these splinter cults are really despicable and in some
                                    ways
                                    > > > even more duplicitous than the first eckankar con. These
                                    people must
                                    > > > really be deluded and narcissistic to create a con of a con.
                                    Do they
                                    > > > actually believe in their own hype? I wonder what their
                                    rationale is?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Tyger
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Question Authority!
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr
                                    <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                    > > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft"
                                    <colleenmft@y...>
                                    > > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > > Leigh:
                                    > > > > > You said:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                                    > > > > > > Owens group myself without
                                    > > > > > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa
                                    and "raising
                                    > > > > > > the consciousness"
                                    > > > > > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford
                                    is into a
                                    > > > > > > very anti Master, you're the
                                    > > > > > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from
                                    yours.
                                    > > If he
                                    > > > > > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then
                                    is it
                                    > > only
                                    > > > > > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's
                                    > > "anti-master", he
                                    > > > > > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Colleen
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from
                                    personal
                                    > > > > experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson
                                    is most
                                    > > > > definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him
                                    in one
                                    > > > > way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has
                                    done some
                                    > > > > good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second
                                    half is just
                                    > > > > another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become
                                    incredibly
                                    > > > > boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is
                                    Gary
                                    > > > > Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow
                                    the same
                                    > > > > roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat
                                    etc. and
                                    > > > > I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag
                                    of tricks
                                    > > > > and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant
                                    added in.
                                    > > > > He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest
                                    of us
                                    > > > > humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes,
                                    etc. . "How
                                    > > > > convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night
                                    Live)
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Tyger
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Question Stupid Authority
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                                    -------
                                    > > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                                    > >
                                    > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/
                                    > >
                                    > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > > eckankartruth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > <mailto:eckankartruth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                    subject=Unsubscribe>
                                    > >
                                    > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                    > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                  • prometheus_973
                                    Hi Hutch, I ll make an attempt to answer you, but I doubt that my words will penetrate the fear you have of listening to an alternative slant (the truth) about
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jun 21, 2005
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                                      Hi Hutch,

                                      I'll make an attempt to answer you, but I doubt that my words will
                                      penetrate the fear you have of listening to an alternative slant
                                      (the truth) about Twitch, Gross, and Klemp.


                                      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "C.Hutcheson" <futursoft@s...>
                                      wrote:

                                      >>Hi everyone
                                      >Which in your opinion is more "narcissist" an Eckist who seeks the
                                      >best for the greater good or a former Eckist that criticizes
                                      >Eckankar because the excesses of a few (and usually former) Eckists.

                                      First, all Eckists should read "Confessions of a God-Seeker"
                                      by Ford Johnson (at least the first half of the book). When I
                                      say "read" I don't mean a "speed read" or to browse. Take your time
                                      and contemplate on what has been read in order to digest the
                                      information.

                                      Also, what is the "greater good" that the Eckist (in your question)
                                      is seeking, and for whom? Is it for the Eckist, for humanity, for
                                      the L.E.M./Mahanta, or for the Eckankar Collective?

                                      Since I was a former H.I. and Eck leader, who held many
                                      positions over the years, I have a very informed perspective of the
                                      ECK hierarchy and of the delusion I experienced. Therefore I would
                                      say that an Eck "chosen one," and especially an H.I., would (in
                                      general) be much more narcissistic than a former Eckist (It is
                                      written that Jesus had the consciousness of a 2nd Initiate, circa
                                      1970). You must understand that usually only a "former Eckist" has
                                      the knowledge and especially the freedom to criticize Eckankar and
                                      the Klempster! You, as an Eckist, would be black listed on future
                                      initiations and local positions if you even question things too
                                      often, much less criticize anything! And, there's plenty to
                                      criticize, unless, you are a hermit or recluse and just don't
                                      participate in eckie things.



                                      >>As it has been said very many times before "judge not less you be
                                      >judged" (presumably by one's higher-self).

                                      Yes, HK loves to quote from the Christian Bible as well. Usually HK
                                      uses the highly innacurate Saint James version. You are inncorrect
                                      in your presumption: the Higher Self does not judge... it teaches,
                                      informs and clarifies when we choose to see and listen. Perhaps you
                                      should remove the sequoia tree from your own eye in order to be free
                                      of judgment yourself! I should remind you, however, that this site
                                      is called Eckankar Truth not Eckankar Delusion!


                                      > This web-site for the time that I have been a silent observer does
                                      >not provide much help those that continue to seek for the truth,
                                      >only those that seek to justify their own opinions.

                                      Open your eyes and ears! You have to want to see and hear the truth!
                                      You could silently observe "Eckankar Survivors Anonymous" (ESA) for
                                      more information on Eckankar, or read the David Lane links presented
                                      here, or Ford's BB "Truth Seeker" archives, or just open your mind
                                      to the critical thinking that has been temporarily erased from your
                                      consciousness of being an Eck drone.

                                      Let's face it... HK is full of opinions and conjecture too, but from
                                      a position of power and with a monetary purpose! When did Eckankar
                                      ever offer a financial report to the members who invest their time
                                      and money? But, again, I suggest you put fear and ego aside and
                                      read "Confession." Don't stay simple... Simon, but it's your choice!

                                      Prometheus


                                      > Simple Simon
                                    • prometheus_973
                                      Oops! Make that the innacurate KING James version of the Bible! Prometheus ... uses the highly innacurate Saint James version.
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jun 21, 2005
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                                        Oops! Make that the innacurate KING James version of the Bible!

                                        Prometheus


                                        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                        <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:

                                        > Yes, HK loves to quote from the Christian Bible as well. Usually HK
                                        uses the highly innacurate Saint James version.
                                      • tomleafeater
                                        ... experience as ... pre-973 ... with the ... Missed them? She escaped them....she was one of the fortunate! I wish the hell I d missed them....(Don t mind
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 30, 2006
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                                          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hi Colleen,
                                          >
                                          > Yes, it does seem you did Not have as long of an "Eck"
                                          experience as
                                          > many of us did, and your memory is of events that took place
                                          pre-973
                                          > and many years ago as well. You missed all of those years
                                          with the
                                          > Klempster, and the re-making of Eckankar.
                                          >

                                          Missed them? She escaped them....she was one of the
                                          fortunate! I wish the hell I'd missed them....(Don't mind me folks.
                                          Just having a nice romp through the archives)



                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, colleen
                                          <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >>Did anyone know or hear about Michael Owens? I'd say
                                          Ford Johnson
                                          > has some competition.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I never heard of Michael Owens until Ford put the info on him
                                          up on
                                          > his site. I don't know what you mean by competition? If anyone
                                          has
                                          > competition with Michael Owens it would be Klemp! Don't get
                                          me wrong
                                          > by thinking I'm a big FJ supporter because I'm not, but let's not
                                          > compare apples to oranges either.
                                          >
                                          > Prometheus
                                          >
                                        • jonathanjohns96
                                          Liz, [I am replying to an old post from the archives.] Regarding initiations given out by Gross I can report two things. I joined Eckankar in 1979 when Gross
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Feb 16 11:21 AM
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                                            Liz,

                                            [I am replying to an old post from the archives.]

                                            Regarding initiations given out by Gross I can report two things. I
                                            joined Eckankar in 1979 when Gross was about 4 years away from
                                            leaving. Harold came on the scene in 1981. In my first one or two
                                            years I met a guy who told me in person that he went from the third
                                            initiation to the fifth initiation. He simply skipped the fourth
                                            initiation. Many years later in Eckankar I heard several Eckists
                                            comment that Darwin had given out fifth initiations to people who
                                            really didn't deserve them. I even think that Klemp said something
                                            like this on one of his tapes.

                                            Like you, I got the letter from Eckankar asking me to recreate my
                                            history of initiations.

                                            Your recollection that members were told that "those initiated under
                                            gross, were told they would continue to receive their initiations
                                            under him" was in a letter that Darwin sent out. I don't know whether
                                            it went to all members of Eckankar or just a partial list that Darwin
                                            had.

                                            Your comment about members being told to "get rid of their gross,
                                            black magician material" was in a letter that Harold Klemp sent out
                                            to the membership. That happened after Gross was safely out the door.

                                            I just thought that I would tell you what I remember because after
                                            awhile all of this stuff just seems to get lost to history.

                                            Jonathan


                                            Elizabeth ("Greg and Liz") wrote:

                                            Didn't Gross before leaving give out a bunch of initiations which
                                            Harold rescinded--or there was some kind of howl about it?


                                            *** Recall when there was the Power struggle between both masters;
                                            who was the master and who was the master???? LOL Anyway, when
                                            Gross was given the boot, he took with him the computer/hard copy
                                            records of all/some of the members. I recall he did issue some
                                            initiations before his exit. For myself personally, I was asked by
                                            the harold camp to list my "history" such as when I joined, when I
                                            received my 2nd, 3rd etc.... apparently gross did some hacking and
                                            deleting of records before he left, which may or may not have been
                                            accomplished by himself, but by those that followed him out the
                                            door. Recall too, that those initiated under gross, were told they
                                            would continue to receive their initiations under him? Anyway that
                                            was what the gross camp advised me at the time. After gross re-
                                            established in another office as the true master/mahanta, I started
                                            receiving letters from him directly for about three years.

                                            Can't recall if anyone mentioned here that they were instructed to
                                            get rid of their gross, black magician material? Like a good cult
                                            puppy I destroyed all my gross stuff. But had forgotten about the
                                            stuff I gave my dad. He still has every book gross published under
                                            eckankar. Maybe worth some money one day..... e-bay here I come ;-)

                                            Elizabeth
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