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Re: Ford Johnson's Focus on "Sri" Michael Owens

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  • l2eigh
    ... cult-like ... Hi folks and Mish, Hi Sharon: What MIsh says here has been mentioneed fairly frequently lately. Particularly in Eckankar Survivors Anonymous.
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
      > I have seen some members' posts on HCS/TS in which certain
      cult-like
      > beliefs are being presented and pushed: Cassiopaea, David Icke and
      > TRANCE Formation of America to name a few. And then there was the
      > suggestion of spending time and money investigating Adam
      > Dreamhealer. One should check out the links posted on the HCS Youth
      > and Creative Arts site to see what is being allowed to be promoted.
      > There's a lot of psychic stuff too. To me, this is all misleading
      > and confusing for ex-Eckists who are trying to find their way after
      > leaving the cult. Some of these things (conspiracy/mind control
      > groups) are more insidious than Eckankar.


      Hi folks and Mish, Hi Sharon:
      What MIsh says here has
      been mentioneed fairly frequently
      lately. Particularly in Eckankar Survivors Anonymous. I think Ford is
      a closet alien/ET and
      associated stuff affectionado, believer, fan, whatever. Look at what
      took him out of
      Eckankar. Graham's journal. Have you read it? The tenor, the flavor
      of the thing, is right on
      the edge of the alien/ET experience.
    • l2eigh
      ... Hi Colleen: I ve been trying to get more information on the Owens group myself without much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and raising
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, colleen <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
        > Hi All...
        >
        > Yes, I believe any splinter group of eckankar can do
        > harm because until one really has gone through a
        > period of self and cult education and reflection, one
        > is vulnerable to joining another cult. It's like going
        > from one domestic abusive situation to another since
        > its familiar before something happens which "wakes one
        > up!" All cults have the same basic dynamics and
        > enticements as well as the "cookie cutter messiah".
        > Some even refer to cult definitions claiming their org
        > isn't one of "those". I think it's important to
        > remember that what these "cookie cutter messiah's" say
        > in the beginning of their organization "spiritual" or
        > otherwise, is likely to be contradicted in some way as
        > participants go through the step-by-step process of
        > coercive persuasion.
        >
        > I wasn't around eckankar long enough to learn about
        > the Gross/Klemp battle and how they handled the
        > initiations...I didn't want to know about it at that
        > time, probably because I wasn't ready to know the
        > truth about the deception. I suspected that if there
        > was such deception with Darwin and/or Harold, it meant
        > the whole eckankar organization and the "teachings"
        > were also a sham but I didn't want to probe and the
        > internet wasn't an option then. I went about my life,
        > finally cancelled the membership dues, and years later
        > searched the web to take a look at eckankar which
        > included reading David Lane's expose and finding
        > a.r.e. and eckankartruth for the first time. All of
        > the findings validated my feelings, another step in
        > healing from the cult experience and deepening trust
        > in myself.
        >
        > Did anyone know or hear about Michael Owens? I'd say
        > Ford Johnson has some competition.


        Hi Colleen:
        I've been trying to get more information on the
        Owens group myself without
        much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
        the consciousness"
        there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
        very anti Master, you're the
        boss, do your own thing, kind of message.
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Colleen, Yes, it does seem you did Not have as long of an Eck experience as many of us did, and your memory is of events that took place pre-973 and many
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
          Hi Colleen,

          Yes, it does seem you did Not have as long of an "Eck" experience as
          many of us did, and your memory is of events that took place pre-973
          and many years ago as well. You missed all of those years with the
          Klempster, and the re-making of Eckankar.



          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, colleen <colleenmft@y...> wrote:

          >>Did anyone know or hear about Michael Owens? I'd say Ford Johnson
          has some competition.


          I never heard of Michael Owens until Ford put the info on him up on
          his site. I don't know what you mean by competition? If anyone has
          competition with Michael Owens it would be Klemp! Don't get me wrong
          by thinking I'm a big FJ supporter because I'm not, but let's not
          compare apples to oranges either.

          Prometheus
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Leigh, I completely agree with you about Ford. I also agree with what Mish has said about the conspiracy mind control cultists promoted on Ford s BBs. I was
          Message 4 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
            Hi Leigh,

            I completely agree with you about Ford. I also agree with what Mish
            has said about the conspiracy mind control cultists promoted on
            Ford's BBs. I was also surprised when I read about Ford's views on
            communicating with aliens ("denizens") on the inner planes. What is
            the difference with that and communicating with a "Master" who is
            actually You as the true Inner Master or God-soul? Does Ford know
            the difference, or is it just one's own delusion and possibly
            confusion? It is interesting, to a degree, to hear about such
            theories or opinions. But, then again, one's own opinion is no
            greater than another's is it? This is the real Truth that many
            cannot see!


            Prometheus



            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh" <lgrif@m...> wrote:
            >
            > > I have seen some members' posts on HCS/TS in which certain
            > cult-like
            > > beliefs are being presented and pushed: Cassiopaea, David Icke
            and
            > > TRANCE Formation of America to name a few. And then there was
            the
            > > suggestion of spending time and money investigating Adam
            > > Dreamhealer. One should check out the links posted on the HCS
            Youth
            > > and Creative Arts site to see what is being allowed to be
            promoted.
            > > There's a lot of psychic stuff too. To me, this is all
            misleading
            > > and confusing for ex-Eckists who are trying to find their way
            after
            > > leaving the cult. Some of these things (conspiracy/mind control
            > > groups) are more insidious than Eckankar.
            >
            >
            > Hi folks and Mish, Hi Sharon:
            > What MIsh says here
            has
            > been mentioneed fairly frequently
            > lately. Particularly in Eckankar Survivors Anonymous. I think Ford
            is
            > a closet alien/ET and
            > associated stuff affectionado, believer, fan, whatever. Look at
            what
            > took him out of
            > Eckankar. Graham's journal. Have you read it? The tenor, the flavor
            > of the thing, is right on
            > the edge of the alien/ET experience.
          • colleenmft
            Leigh: You said: I ve been trying to get more information on the ... My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours. If he supports others
            Message 5 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
              Leigh:
              You said:

              "I've been trying to get more information on the
              > Owens group myself without
              > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
              > the consciousness"
              > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
              > very anti Master, you're the
              > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."

              My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours. If he
              supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it only
              when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's "anti-master", he
              may use those words but have contradictory messages.

              Colleen
            • l2eigh
              Hi Prometheus: You know, the irony is that the way he (Ford J.) lays out what the nuts and bolts of an inner experience is, there is no difference. You should
              Message 6 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
                Hi Prometheus:
                You know, the irony is that the way he (Ford J.) lays out what the nuts and
                bolts of an inner experience is, there is no difference. You should post the question on the
                HCS board i.e. "what's the difference between an inner experience with an alien race and
                the inner experience with a 'spiritual Master'?" I think the answer (according to the
                formula) will be "none". That both are a mockup, a presentation, being made by your
                "Higher Self". Yeah, but this (then) falls back into the old formula. (Say) it IS your Higher
                Self. What kind of experiencce is it mocking up? A "psychic" one or a "spiritual" one? La de
                da da, yada, yada, yada.


                -- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@y...>
                wrote:
                > Hi Leigh,
                >
                > I completely agree with you about Ford. I also agree with what Mish
                > has said about the conspiracy mind control cultists promoted on
                > Ford's BBs. I was also surprised when I read about Ford's views on
                > communicating with aliens ("denizens") on the inner planes. What is
                > the difference with that and communicating with a "Master" who is
                > actually You as the true Inner Master or God-soul? Does Ford know
                > the difference, or is it just one's own delusion and possibly
                > confusion? It is interesting, to a degree, to hear about such
                > theories or opinions. But, then again, one's own opinion is no
                > greater than another's is it? This is the real Truth that many
                > cannot see!
                >
                >
                > Prometheus
              • l2eigh
                Hi Colleen: I was just posting about the differences. Michael Owens apparently believes he s recieved The Rod of ECK Power and that he is the Mahanta ,
                Message 7 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
                  Hi Colleen:
                  I was just posting about the differences. Michael Owens apparently believes he's
                  recieved "The Rod of ECK Power" and that he is the "Mahanta", though of course he has to
                  come up with a different vocabulary for everything for legal reasons. Ford's approach
                  (from his book, and subsequent opinions and views posted on his bulletin boards) is
                  "quite" unlike that.
                  It's not that I'm insensitive to how you feel about F.J.. On the other hand, you've
                  got to realize you started all that with a man with an ego, who's a lawyer as well, who just
                  tossed overboard something he'd put himself into in a big way for thirty years and was
                  struggling with a replacement for all that, in his life. Irrational, delusional, or not, I don't
                  think I'd want to get between a hungry, nervous, tired, (and frightened?) dog, and whatever
                  he was chewing on, whether it was a bone, or not. Overreaction from him? Sure. But then,
                  you're a professional. More than anyone you should understand how this all came down, in
                  a behavioral context. I'm sorry you got flamed. If this is doing you some serious harm in
                  terms of your personal integrity or professionally I'd sue to have him "cease and desist".
                  Otherwise, hey, "consider the source". His isn't a support group. But then it never claimed
                  to be as far as I know. I really don't undrstand how it defines itself. But, what would you
                  like to do at this point?


                  --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
                  > Leigh:
                  > You said:
                  >
                  > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                  > > Owens group myself without
                  > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
                  > > the consciousness"
                  > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
                  > > very anti Master, you're the
                  > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                  >
                  > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours. If he
                  > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it only
                  > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's "anti-master", he
                  > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                  >
                  > Colleen
                • tygerpurr
                  ... Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal experience with the Higher Con Society bunch. Ford Johnson is most definitely the
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jun 19, 2005
                    --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Leigh:
                    > You said:
                    >
                    > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                    > > Owens group myself without
                    > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
                    > > the consciousness"
                    > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
                    > > very anti Master, you're the
                    > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                    >
                    > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours. If he
                    > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it only
                    > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's "anti-master", he
                    > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                    >
                    > Colleen

                    Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal
                    experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson is most
                    definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him in one
                    way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done some
                    good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second half is just
                    another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become incredibly
                    boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.

                    THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is Gary
                    Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow the same
                    roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat etc. and
                    I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag of tricks
                    and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.

                    I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant added in.
                    He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest of us
                    humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes, etc. . "How
                    convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night Live)

                    Tyger

                    Question Stupid Authority
                  • mishmisha9
                    Ford did express that he has communicated with alien denizens in other worlds in a post of HCS, and that was the thing that really ruined HCS for me. I also
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
                      Ford did express that he has communicated with alien denizens in
                      other worlds in a post of HCS, and that was the thing that really
                      ruined HCS for me. I also think that Ford is allowing all these
                      different interests to be promoted on his BBs as a way to draw more
                      people onto his site--quantity vs. quality thinking, I guess. It's
                      kind of like being back in kindergarten. I didn't think one had to
                      revert back to a more primitive way of thinking and start over from
                      square one. I believe that one can move on beyond Eckankar or
                      whatever without having to regress, because after all, we were
                      evolving while in the org. and we continue to evolve--we just need
                      to recognize this in ourselves. Anyway, I'm free . . . again!

                      Mish

                      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh" <lgrif@m...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I have seen some members' posts on HCS/TS in which certain
                      > cult-like
                      > > beliefs are being presented and pushed: Cassiopaea, David Icke
                      and
                      > > TRANCE Formation of America to name a few. And then there was
                      the
                      > > suggestion of spending time and money investigating Adam
                      > > Dreamhealer. One should check out the links posted on the HCS
                      Youth
                      > > and Creative Arts site to see what is being allowed to be
                      promoted.
                      > > There's a lot of psychic stuff too. To me, this is all
                      misleading
                      > > and confusing for ex-Eckists who are trying to find their way
                      after
                      > > leaving the cult. Some of these things (conspiracy/mind control
                      > > groups) are more insidious than Eckankar.
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi folks and Mish, Hi Sharon:
                      > What MIsh says here
                      has
                      > been mentioneed fairly frequently
                      > lately. Particularly in Eckankar Survivors Anonymous. I think Ford
                      is
                      > a closet alien/ET and
                      > associated stuff affectionado, believer, fan, whatever. Look at
                      what
                      > took him out of
                      > Eckankar. Graham's journal. Have you read it? The tenor, the flavor
                      > of the thing, is right on
                      > the edge of the alien/ET experience.
                    • mishmisha9
                      Hi, Leigh! Good observation on Ford s interest in aliens and ets. I didn t notice this until recently, but it seems rather obvious now. Well, that s okay for
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
                        Hi, Leigh!

                        Good observation on Ford's interest in aliens and ets. I didn't
                        notice this until recently, but it seems rather obvious now. Well,
                        that's okay for him. I suppose he doesn't believe that the
                        world/government leaders are reptilians as some people believe?


                        Mish

                        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh" <lgrif@m...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > I have seen some members' posts on HCS/TS in which certain
                        > cult-like
                        > > beliefs are being presented and pushed: Cassiopaea, David Icke
                        and
                        > > TRANCE Formation of America to name a few. And then there was
                        the
                        > > suggestion of spending time and money investigating Adam
                        > > Dreamhealer. One should check out the links posted on the HCS
                        Youth
                        > > and Creative Arts site to see what is being allowed to be
                        promoted.
                        > > There's a lot of psychic stuff too. To me, this is all
                        misleading
                        > > and confusing for ex-Eckists who are trying to find their way
                        after
                        > > leaving the cult. Some of these things (conspiracy/mind control
                        > > groups) are more insidious than Eckankar.
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi folks and Mish, Hi Sharon:
                        > What MIsh says here
                        has
                        > been mentioneed fairly frequently
                        > lately. Particularly in Eckankar Survivors Anonymous. I think Ford
                        is
                        > a closet alien/ET and
                        > associated stuff affectionado, believer, fan, whatever. Look at
                        what
                        > took him out of
                        > Eckankar. Graham's journal. Have you read it? The tenor, the flavor
                        > of the thing, is right on
                        > the edge of the alien/ET experience.
                      • tygerpurr
                        I think these splinter cults are really despicable and in some ways even more duplicitous than the first eckankar con. These people must really be deluded and
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
                          I think these splinter cults are really despicable and in some ways
                          even more duplicitous than the first eckankar con. These people must
                          really be deluded and narcissistic to create a con of a con. Do they
                          actually believe in their own hype? I wonder what their rationale is?

                          Tyger

                          Question Authority!

                          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > Leigh:
                          > > You said:
                          > >
                          > > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                          > > > Owens group myself without
                          > > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
                          > > > the consciousness"
                          > > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
                          > > > very anti Master, you're the
                          > > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                          > >
                          > > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours. If he
                          > > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it only
                          > > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's "anti-master", he
                          > > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                          > >
                          > > Colleen
                          >
                          > Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal
                          > experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson is most
                          > definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him in one
                          > way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done some
                          > good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second half is just
                          > another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become incredibly
                          > boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.
                          >
                          > THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is Gary
                          > Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow the same
                          > roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat etc. and
                          > I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag of tricks
                          > and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.
                          >
                          > I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant added in.
                          > He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest of us
                          > humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes, etc. . "How
                          > convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night Live)
                          >
                          > Tyger
                          >
                          > Question Stupid Authority
                        • tygerpurr
                          Or should I say rationalization? ... If he ... only ... anti-master , he
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
                            Or should I say rationalization?

                            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                            > I think these splinter cults are really despicable and in some ways
                            > even more duplicitous than the first eckankar con. These people must
                            > really be deluded and narcissistic to create a con of a con. Do they
                            > actually believe in their own hype? I wonder what their rationale is?
                            >
                            > Tyger
                            >
                            > Question Authority!
                            >
                            > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                            > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > > Leigh:
                            > > > You said:
                            > > >
                            > > > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                            > > > > Owens group myself without
                            > > > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
                            > > > > the consciousness"
                            > > > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
                            > > > > very anti Master, you're the
                            > > > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                            > > >
                            > > > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours.
                            If he
                            > > > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it
                            only
                            > > > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's
                            "anti-master", he
                            > > > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                            > > >
                            > > > Colleen
                            > >
                            > > Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal
                            > > experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson is most
                            > > definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him in one
                            > > way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done some
                            > > good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second half is just
                            > > another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become incredibly
                            > > boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.
                            > >
                            > > THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is Gary
                            > > Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow the same
                            > > roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat etc. and
                            > > I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag of tricks
                            > > and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.
                            > >
                            > > I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant added in.
                            > > He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest of us
                            > > humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes, etc. . "How
                            > > convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night Live)
                            > >
                            > > Tyger
                            > >
                            > > Question Stupid Authority
                          • colleenmft
                            Hi Tiger.... Don t forget Jerry Mulvin, who was a popular Mahdis in eckankar through the 70 s who left to begin his own Soul Travel teaching . He also
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
                              Hi Tiger....

                              Don't forget Jerry Mulvin, who was a popular "Mahdis" in eckankar
                              through the '70's who left to begin his own "Soul
                              Travel" "teaching". He also took several other dedicated "eckists"
                              (volunteering hours and hours of time) with him. More recently, he
                              was convicted on charges regarding child pornography and was given a
                              lifetime probation as a registered sex offender. This ended his
                              career, as far as I know, of leading souls into the "higher
                              spiritual worlds"....but, as others have, perhaps he could resume
                              his passion(s) again.

                              Colleen

                              --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...>
                              wrote:
                              > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft"
                              <colleenmft@y...>
                              > wrote:
                              > > Leigh:
                              > > You said:
                              > >
                              > > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                              > > > Owens group myself without
                              > > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa
                              and "raising
                              > > > the consciousness"
                              > > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is
                              into a
                              > > > very anti Master, you're the
                              > > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                              > >
                              > > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours.
                              If he
                              > > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it
                              only
                              > > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's "anti-
                              master", he
                              > > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                              > >
                              > > Colleen
                              >
                              > Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal
                              > experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson is
                              most
                              > definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him in one
                              > way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done
                              some
                              > good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second half is
                              just
                              > another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become
                              incredibly
                              > boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.
                              >
                              > THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is Gary
                              > Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow the
                              same
                              > roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat etc. and
                              > I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag of
                              tricks
                              > and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.
                              >
                              > I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant added
                              in.
                              > He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest of us
                              > humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes, etc. . "How
                              > convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night Live)
                              >
                              > Tyger
                              >
                              > Question Stupid Authority
                            • prometheus_973
                              Hello Tiger and Leigh, ... up bowing to him in one way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done some good, at least the first half of it,
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
                                Hello Tiger and Leigh,

                                --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...>
                                wrote:

                                >>Ford Johnson is most definitely the Authority figure and all end
                                up bowing to him in one way or another as the final arbiter. His
                                book certainly has done some good, at least the first half of it,
                                IMHO,but the second half is just another cultish dogma to learn ;-).

                                Yes, the first half of Ford's book is very good for debunking
                                Eckankar. David Lane just did not have an insider's perspective or
                                the credibility of Ford (for Eckists), but Lane did do a lot of
                                sound research which Ford and others have used.

                                >>The HCS BB has become incredibly boring as a result, especially
                                Betty and Mario.

                                Yes, Betty and Mario (wife and husband) have dominated Ford's BBs
                                from the very start with their own conspiracy/psychic agendas. It's
                                incredible how Ford has permitted Betty's endless disjointed
                                rantings! This is the main reason why I (and possibly others) left
                                those sites. One could not express a differing opinion without being
                                attacked by the rabid neo post Eckankar reptillian zombies from
                                Canada. And, Leigh, this is why I refuse to post on those BBs, or to
                                even send Ford a private email.

                                Prometheus
                              • C.Hutcheson
                                Hi everyone Which in your opinion is more narcissist an Eckist who seeks the best for the greater good or a former Eckist that criticizes Eckankar because
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
                                  Hi everyone

                                  Which in your opinion is more "narcissist" an Eckist who seeks the best
                                  for the greater good or a former Eckist that criticizes Eckankar because
                                  the excesses of a few (and usually former) Eckists.

                                  As it has been said very many times before "judge not less you be
                                  judged" (presumably by one's higher-self).

                                  This web-site for the time that I have been a silent observer does not
                                  provide much help those that continue to seek for the truth, only those
                                  that seek to justify their own opinions.

                                  Simple Simon






                                  fromer tygerpurr wrote:

                                  > Or should I say rationalization?
                                  >
                                  > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                  > > I think these splinter cults are really despicable and in some ways
                                  > > even more duplicitous than the first eckankar con. These people must
                                  > > really be deluded and narcissistic to create a con of a con. Do they
                                  > > actually believe in their own hype? I wonder what their rationale is?
                                  > >
                                  > > Tyger
                                  > >
                                  > > Question Authority!
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > > Leigh:
                                  > > > > You said:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                                  > > > > > Owens group myself without
                                  > > > > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa and "raising
                                  > > > > > the consciousness"
                                  > > > > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford is into a
                                  > > > > > very anti Master, you're the
                                  > > > > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from yours.
                                  > If he
                                  > > > > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then is it
                                  > only
                                  > > > > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's
                                  > "anti-master", he
                                  > > > > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Colleen
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from personal
                                  > > > experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson is most
                                  > > > definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him in one
                                  > > > way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has done some
                                  > > > good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second half is just
                                  > > > another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become incredibly
                                  > > > boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is Gary
                                  > > > Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow the same
                                  > > > roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat etc. and
                                  > > > I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag of tricks
                                  > > > and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant added in.
                                  > > > He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest of us
                                  > > > humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes, etc. . "How
                                  > > > convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night Live)
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Tyger
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Question Stupid Authority
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                                  >
                                  > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/
                                  >
                                  > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > eckankartruth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:eckankartruth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                  >
                                  > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                  > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                  >
                                  >
                                • tygerpurr
                                  Well put Prometheus! LOL: One could not express a differing opinion without being attacked by the rabid neo post Eckankar reptillian zombies from Canada. And,
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jun 20, 2005
                                    Well put Prometheus! LOL:

                                    "One could not express a differing opinion without being
                                    attacked by the rabid neo post Eckankar reptillian zombies from
                                    Canada. And, Leigh, this is why I refuse to post on those BBs..."

                                    Tyger

                                    P.S. Leigh I have some ideas as a response to your qestion, but it may
                                    take a few days.

                                    --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                    <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
                                    > Hello Tiger and Leigh,
                                    >
                                    > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >>Ford Johnson is most definitely the Authority figure and all end
                                    > up bowing to him in one way or another as the final arbiter. His
                                    > book certainly has done some good, at least the first half of it,
                                    > IMHO,but the second half is just another cultish dogma to learn ;-).
                                    >
                                    > Yes, the first half of Ford's book is very good for debunking
                                    > Eckankar. David Lane just did not have an insider's perspective or
                                    > the credibility of Ford (for Eckists), but Lane did do a lot of
                                    > sound research which Ford and others have used.
                                    >
                                    > >>The HCS BB has become incredibly boring as a result, especially
                                    > Betty and Mario.
                                    >
                                    > Yes, Betty and Mario (wife and husband) have dominated Ford's BBs
                                    > from the very start with their own conspiracy/psychic agendas. It's
                                    > incredible how Ford has permitted Betty's endless disjointed
                                    > rantings! This is the main reason why I (and possibly others) left
                                    > those sites. One could not express a differing opinion without being
                                    > attacked by the rabid neo post Eckankar reptillian zombies from
                                    > Canada. And, Leigh, this is why I refuse to post on those BBs, or to
                                    > even send Ford a private email.
                                    >
                                    > Prometheus
                                  • mishmisha9
                                    Well, I have to say Eckists are delusional and narcissistic just as your post reflects. : ) As for judge not less you be judged , isn t this what you are
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jun 21, 2005
                                      Well, I have to say Eckists are delusional and narcissistic just as
                                      your post reflects. : )

                                      As for "judge not less you be judged", isn't this what you are doing
                                      here? Therefore, this is even more evidence of being delusional and
                                      narcissistic. Obviously, Eckists are incapable of critical thinking
                                      and are to remain the eternal followers of false masters.

                                      It seems that you are not ready to seek the truth, because you don't
                                      want to know the truth since with the truth comes responsibility and
                                      ownership of behavior in taking charge of your own life as your own
                                      master.

                                      And a good day to you!

                                      Mish

                                      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "C.Hutcheson" <futursoft@s...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > Hi everyone
                                      >
                                      > Which in your opinion is more "narcissist" an Eckist who seeks the
                                      best
                                      > for the greater good or a former Eckist that criticizes Eckankar
                                      because
                                      > the excesses of a few (and usually former) Eckists.
                                      >
                                      > As it has been said very many times before "judge not less you be
                                      > judged" (presumably by one's higher-self).
                                      >
                                      > This web-site for the time that I have been a silent observer does
                                      not
                                      > provide much help those that continue to seek for the truth, only
                                      those
                                      > that seek to justify their own opinions.
                                      >
                                      > Simple Simon
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > fromer tygerpurr wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Or should I say rationalization?
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@y...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > > > I think these splinter cults are really despicable and in some
                                      ways
                                      > > > even more duplicitous than the first eckankar con. These
                                      people must
                                      > > > really be deluded and narcissistic to create a con of a con.
                                      Do they
                                      > > > actually believe in their own hype? I wonder what their
                                      rationale is?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Tyger
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Question Authority!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr
                                      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                      > > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft"
                                      <colleenmft@y...>
                                      > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > Leigh:
                                      > > > > > You said:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > "I've been trying to get more information on the
                                      > > > > > > Owens group myself without
                                      > > > > > > much success. My sense is he wants to focus on Africa
                                      and "raising
                                      > > > > > > the consciousness"
                                      > > > > > > there. And this isn't really competition for Ford. Ford
                                      is into a
                                      > > > > > > very anti Master, you're the
                                      > > > > > > boss, do your own thing, kind of message."
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > My perception of Ford Johnson, Leigh, is different from
                                      yours.
                                      > > If he
                                      > > > > > supports others doing their own thing, as you write, then
                                      is it
                                      > > only
                                      > > > > > when they agree with him and his viewpoint? If he's
                                      > > "anti-master", he
                                      > > > > > may use those words but have contradictory messages.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Colleen
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Yes, I agree with you and this is most definitely from
                                      personal
                                      > > > > experience with the "Higher Con" Society bunch. Ford Johnson
                                      is most
                                      > > > > definitely the Authority figure and all end up bowing to him
                                      in one
                                      > > > > way or another as the final arbiter. His book certainly has
                                      done some
                                      > > > > good, at least the first half of it, IMHO, but the second
                                      half is just
                                      > > > > another cultish dogma to learn ;-). The HCS BB has become
                                      incredibly
                                      > > > > boring as a result, especially Betty and Mario.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > THere are a few other "Sri's" too. One that comes to mind is
                                      Gary
                                      > > > > Olsen and another I'll have to look up. They seem to follow
                                      the same
                                      > > > > roots as eckancrap, that is radhasoami satsang or sant mat
                                      etc. and
                                      > > > > I'm sure some scientology etc. . The Twithch had quite a bag
                                      of tricks
                                      > > > > and cheating con artist bull crap up his sleeves.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I notice that Michael Owens has more of a Sufi, Muslim slant
                                      added in.
                                      > > > > He claims to have the same physical restrictions as the rest
                                      of us
                                      > > > > humans, but is the "living master" on the inner planes,
                                      etc. . "How
                                      > > > > convenient!" (said like the church lady on Saturday Night
                                      Live)
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Tyger
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Question Stupid Authority
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
                                      -------
                                      > > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                                      > >
                                      > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/
                                      > >
                                      > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > > eckankartruth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > <mailto:eckankartruth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                      subject=Unsubscribe>
                                      > >
                                      > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                      > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                    • prometheus_973
                                      Hi Hutch, I ll make an attempt to answer you, but I doubt that my words will penetrate the fear you have of listening to an alternative slant (the truth) about
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jun 21, 2005
                                        Hi Hutch,

                                        I'll make an attempt to answer you, but I doubt that my words will
                                        penetrate the fear you have of listening to an alternative slant
                                        (the truth) about Twitch, Gross, and Klemp.


                                        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "C.Hutcheson" <futursoft@s...>
                                        wrote:

                                        >>Hi everyone
                                        >Which in your opinion is more "narcissist" an Eckist who seeks the
                                        >best for the greater good or a former Eckist that criticizes
                                        >Eckankar because the excesses of a few (and usually former) Eckists.

                                        First, all Eckists should read "Confessions of a God-Seeker"
                                        by Ford Johnson (at least the first half of the book). When I
                                        say "read" I don't mean a "speed read" or to browse. Take your time
                                        and contemplate on what has been read in order to digest the
                                        information.

                                        Also, what is the "greater good" that the Eckist (in your question)
                                        is seeking, and for whom? Is it for the Eckist, for humanity, for
                                        the L.E.M./Mahanta, or for the Eckankar Collective?

                                        Since I was a former H.I. and Eck leader, who held many
                                        positions over the years, I have a very informed perspective of the
                                        ECK hierarchy and of the delusion I experienced. Therefore I would
                                        say that an Eck "chosen one," and especially an H.I., would (in
                                        general) be much more narcissistic than a former Eckist (It is
                                        written that Jesus had the consciousness of a 2nd Initiate, circa
                                        1970). You must understand that usually only a "former Eckist" has
                                        the knowledge and especially the freedom to criticize Eckankar and
                                        the Klempster! You, as an Eckist, would be black listed on future
                                        initiations and local positions if you even question things too
                                        often, much less criticize anything! And, there's plenty to
                                        criticize, unless, you are a hermit or recluse and just don't
                                        participate in eckie things.



                                        >>As it has been said very many times before "judge not less you be
                                        >judged" (presumably by one's higher-self).

                                        Yes, HK loves to quote from the Christian Bible as well. Usually HK
                                        uses the highly innacurate Saint James version. You are inncorrect
                                        in your presumption: the Higher Self does not judge... it teaches,
                                        informs and clarifies when we choose to see and listen. Perhaps you
                                        should remove the sequoia tree from your own eye in order to be free
                                        of judgment yourself! I should remind you, however, that this site
                                        is called Eckankar Truth not Eckankar Delusion!


                                        > This web-site for the time that I have been a silent observer does
                                        >not provide much help those that continue to seek for the truth,
                                        >only those that seek to justify their own opinions.

                                        Open your eyes and ears! You have to want to see and hear the truth!
                                        You could silently observe "Eckankar Survivors Anonymous" (ESA) for
                                        more information on Eckankar, or read the David Lane links presented
                                        here, or Ford's BB "Truth Seeker" archives, or just open your mind
                                        to the critical thinking that has been temporarily erased from your
                                        consciousness of being an Eck drone.

                                        Let's face it... HK is full of opinions and conjecture too, but from
                                        a position of power and with a monetary purpose! When did Eckankar
                                        ever offer a financial report to the members who invest their time
                                        and money? But, again, I suggest you put fear and ego aside and
                                        read "Confession." Don't stay simple... Simon, but it's your choice!

                                        Prometheus


                                        > Simple Simon
                                      • prometheus_973
                                        Oops! Make that the innacurate KING James version of the Bible! Prometheus ... uses the highly innacurate Saint James version.
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jun 21, 2005
                                          Oops! Make that the innacurate KING James version of the Bible!

                                          Prometheus


                                          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                          <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:

                                          > Yes, HK loves to quote from the Christian Bible as well. Usually HK
                                          uses the highly innacurate Saint James version.
                                        • tomleafeater
                                          ... experience as ... pre-973 ... with the ... Missed them? She escaped them....she was one of the fortunate! I wish the hell I d missed them....(Don t mind
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Mar 30, 2006
                                            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hi Colleen,
                                            >
                                            > Yes, it does seem you did Not have as long of an "Eck"
                                            experience as
                                            > many of us did, and your memory is of events that took place
                                            pre-973
                                            > and many years ago as well. You missed all of those years
                                            with the
                                            > Klempster, and the re-making of Eckankar.
                                            >

                                            Missed them? She escaped them....she was one of the
                                            fortunate! I wish the hell I'd missed them....(Don't mind me folks.
                                            Just having a nice romp through the archives)



                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, colleen
                                            <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >>Did anyone know or hear about Michael Owens? I'd say
                                            Ford Johnson
                                            > has some competition.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I never heard of Michael Owens until Ford put the info on him
                                            up on
                                            > his site. I don't know what you mean by competition? If anyone
                                            has
                                            > competition with Michael Owens it would be Klemp! Don't get
                                            me wrong
                                            > by thinking I'm a big FJ supporter because I'm not, but let's not
                                            > compare apples to oranges either.
                                            >
                                            > Prometheus
                                            >
                                          • jonathanjohns96
                                            Liz, [I am replying to an old post from the archives.] Regarding initiations given out by Gross I can report two things. I joined Eckankar in 1979 when Gross
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Feb 16, 2009
                                              Liz,

                                              [I am replying to an old post from the archives.]

                                              Regarding initiations given out by Gross I can report two things. I
                                              joined Eckankar in 1979 when Gross was about 4 years away from
                                              leaving. Harold came on the scene in 1981. In my first one or two
                                              years I met a guy who told me in person that he went from the third
                                              initiation to the fifth initiation. He simply skipped the fourth
                                              initiation. Many years later in Eckankar I heard several Eckists
                                              comment that Darwin had given out fifth initiations to people who
                                              really didn't deserve them. I even think that Klemp said something
                                              like this on one of his tapes.

                                              Like you, I got the letter from Eckankar asking me to recreate my
                                              history of initiations.

                                              Your recollection that members were told that "those initiated under
                                              gross, were told they would continue to receive their initiations
                                              under him" was in a letter that Darwin sent out. I don't know whether
                                              it went to all members of Eckankar or just a partial list that Darwin
                                              had.

                                              Your comment about members being told to "get rid of their gross,
                                              black magician material" was in a letter that Harold Klemp sent out
                                              to the membership. That happened after Gross was safely out the door.

                                              I just thought that I would tell you what I remember because after
                                              awhile all of this stuff just seems to get lost to history.

                                              Jonathan


                                              Elizabeth ("Greg and Liz") wrote:

                                              Didn't Gross before leaving give out a bunch of initiations which
                                              Harold rescinded--or there was some kind of howl about it?


                                              *** Recall when there was the Power struggle between both masters;
                                              who was the master and who was the master???? LOL Anyway, when
                                              Gross was given the boot, he took with him the computer/hard copy
                                              records of all/some of the members. I recall he did issue some
                                              initiations before his exit. For myself personally, I was asked by
                                              the harold camp to list my "history" such as when I joined, when I
                                              received my 2nd, 3rd etc.... apparently gross did some hacking and
                                              deleting of records before he left, which may or may not have been
                                              accomplished by himself, but by those that followed him out the
                                              door. Recall too, that those initiated under gross, were told they
                                              would continue to receive their initiations under him? Anyway that
                                              was what the gross camp advised me at the time. After gross re-
                                              established in another office as the true master/mahanta, I started
                                              receiving letters from him directly for about three years.

                                              Can't recall if anyone mentioned here that they were instructed to
                                              get rid of their gross, black magician material? Like a good cult
                                              puppy I destroyed all my gross stuff. But had forgotten about the
                                              stuff I gave my dad. He still has every book gross published under
                                              eckankar. Maybe worth some money one day..... e-bay here I come ;-)

                                              Elizabeth
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