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RE: Hi Colleen

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  • l2eigh
    Hi: Right. But all children try to push the envelope. It s a part of a normal finding where the limits are exercise. So we all wind up being authoritarin
    Message 1 of 4 , May 8, 2005
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      Hi:
      Right. But all children try to push the envelope. It's a part of
      a normal "finding where
      the limits are" exercise. So we all wind up being authoritarin here
      and there now and then.
      So I guess what you mean involves excess? Being excessively
      authoritarian? And of course
      the right attitude to begin with. So it pretty much comes down to
      imparting, or trying to
      impart, a succcessful attitude, an attitude of success involving
      self-worth, sensibility, self
      respect, a respect for others, a healthy dynamic of expansion and so
      on?
    • colleenmft
      Alice Miller, Ph.D in her book Prisoners of Childhood, The Drama of the Gifted Child writes about the drama of the gifted -- i.e., sensitive, alert -- child
      Message 2 of 4 , May 8, 2005
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        Alice Miller, Ph.D in her book "Prisoners of Childhood, The Drama of
        the Gifted Child" writes about "the drama of the gifted -- i.e.,
        sensitive, alert -- child which consists of his recognition at a very
        early age of his parents' needs and of his adaptation to these needs.
        In the process, he learns to repress rather than to acknowledge his
        own intense feelings because they are unacceptable to his parents.
        Although it will not always be possible to avoid these "ugly" feelings
        (e.g., anger, indignation, despair, jealousy, fear) in the future,
        they will split off., i.e., the most vital part of the "true self" (a
        key phrase in Alice Miller's works) will not be integrated into the
        personality. This leads to emotional insecurity and loss of self,
        which are revealed in depression or concealed behind the facade of
        grandiosity."

        Miller describes "healthy narcissism" and narcissistic disturbances
        which I believe may contribute to future indoctrination as a cult
        member and/or leader.

        Colleen

        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh" <lgrif@m...> wrote:
        > Hi:
        > Right. But all children try to push the envelope. It's a part of
        > a normal "finding where
        > the limits are" exercise. So we all wind up being authoritarin here
        > and there now and then.
        > So I guess what you mean involves excess? Being excessively
        > authoritarian? And of course
        > the right attitude to begin with. So it pretty much comes down to
        > imparting, or trying to
        > impart, a succcessful attitude, an attitude of success involving
        > self-worth, sensibility, self
        > respect, a respect for others, a healthy dynamic of expansion and so
        > on?
      • mishmisha9
        Hello, Colleen! Just a couple questions and perhaps a comment as well! First, in citing Alice Miller s Prisoners of Childhood, I assume that not every gifted
        Message 3 of 4 , May 8, 2005
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          Hello, Colleen!

          Just a couple questions and perhaps a comment as well! First, in
          citing Alice Miller's "Prisoners of Childhood," I assume that not
          every gifted child is going to experience this repression--correct?

          Also, can you define what "healthy narcissism" would be versus
          narcissistic disturbances?

          I know with your professional credentials, you have a lot of
          knowledge about the socialization of the masses, but I also wonder
          if you could, when you post, engage more in lay terms and as a
          regular person who also is dealing with these issues being discussed
          on a personal level?

          The reason I ask this is while I know you are not posting as a
          professional, sometimes your posts sound too professional for
          informal discussion. In my opinion (for what it is worth beyond
          being mine), when you cite someone like Alice Miller, it would be
          helpful and more interesting if you explained more in lay language
          and maybe relate how it might even apply or mean something to you.

          I also agree with Leigh that it is necessary to be authoritarian
          with your own children. After all, they are too young to
          make "adult" decisions--but of course, one should not be too strict
          or too dominating authoritarian. It's finding balance. To me, the
          word "no" was very important for my children to learn. It helped
          many times to stop them in their tracks when they were running into
          dangerous situations and I was too far away to grab them from harm.
          Of course, the word "no" only works when it is not overused! : )
          Interesting enough, I am discovering that my elderly mother is now
          incapable of making sound decisions for her own good in many
          instances. Basically, you just have to do what is best for her,
          because if you leave it to her, she puts herself in unsafe and
          unhealthy situations. I know that many of my friends are in the same
          situation with their parents as our population continues to live to
          older ages.

          Mish

          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
          wrote:
          > Alice Miller, Ph.D in her book "Prisoners of Childhood, The Drama
          of
          > the Gifted Child" writes about "the drama of the gifted -- i.e.,
          > sensitive, alert -- child which consists of his recognition at a
          very
          > early age of his parents' needs and of his adaptation to these
          needs.
          > In the process, he learns to repress rather than to acknowledge
          his
          > own intense feelings because they are unacceptable to his
          parents.
          > Although it will not always be possible to avoid these "ugly"
          feelings
          > (e.g., anger, indignation, despair, jealousy, fear) in the future,
          > they will split off., i.e., the most vital part of the "true self"
          (a
          > key phrase in Alice Miller's works) will not be integrated into
          the
          > personality. This leads to emotional insecurity and loss of self,
          > which are revealed in depression or concealed behind the facade of
          > grandiosity."
          >
          > Miller describes "healthy narcissism" and narcissistic
          disturbances
          > which I believe may contribute to future indoctrination as a cult
          > member and/or leader.
          >
          > Colleen
          >
          > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh" <lgrif@m...> wrote:
          > > Hi:
          > > Right. But all children try to push the envelope. It's a
          part of
          > > a normal "finding where
          > > the limits are" exercise. So we all wind up being authoritarin
          here
          > > and there now and then.
          > > So I guess what you mean involves excess? Being excessively
          > > authoritarian? And of course
          > > the right attitude to begin with. So it pretty much comes down to
          > > imparting, or trying to
          > > impart, a succcessful attitude, an attitude of success involving
          > > self-worth, sensibility, self
          > > respect, a respect for others, a healthy dynamic of expansion
          and so
          > > on?
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