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Re: [eckankartruth] Digest Number 1073

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  • Thomas Bennett
    ShabdaHu. . . . the progenitor s of Eckankar, which are Sant Mat and Radhaosoami - they re actually not high on the real enlightened scale among gurus. [To
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 27, 2005
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      ShabdaHu.

      . . . the progenitor's of Eckankar, which are

      Sant Mat and Radhaosoami - they're actually not high on the real

      enlightened scale among gurus.  [To which is replied:]

       

      T.C.

      So, let�s fit it together. Sant Mat and Radhaosoami are not the source of Twitchells�s system. You�re just generalizing, to make a point about Twitchell�s debt to the shabd paths. Twitchell is endbted to many sources, and so, for example, is Christianity, for that matter. Twitchell's method of appropriation is just more obvious in the method of compilation.

       

      A university upper division theology class is a little too removed from an unenlightened consumerism and uncritical examination of popular culture and received knowledge.

       

      A teaching �real high on the enlightened scale among gurus� is merely the system you�re presently practicing, receiving a high rating because you�re getting results. Other people are getting results, too. For example, Catholics have a teaching high on the �enlightened scale,' among only begotten sons, and one backed up by scripture.

       

      And so do Eckists, and Buddhists, and everybody else, for that matter. Cultural relativism may not be one's forte around here. In an eternal NOW, you raise the consciousness by meditation, prayer, contemplation, karma yoga, motorcycle maintanence, and mindfulness while loading the dishwasher or driving to work. �Truth is One, the local gurus give it all the different names.� (Ekam Sat Vipre, Bahudha Vedanta.)

       

      >T.C.

      > The dream master as terminology is only semantics. [To which is replied:]

       

      >>Sharon.

      Nope, the "dream master" stuff is NOT just semantics.  The cult teaches that Klemp *is* the dream master.   At at official cult intros on dreams, his photo,  which is displayed at *all* eckfunctions, is held up for the benefit of inquiring newbies.   And they're told that this is the dream

      master, the person you should visualize when you're starting your study

      of your dreams.   [To which is replied:]

       

      T.C.

      What do you base your conclusion on? Their experience of the Dream Master? Or yours?

       

      Let them have their spiritual experience. The Hopi Indians can have the Katchinas. Three little children can have their Miracle of Fatima. Its OK, you can have yours. (Heck Bashin.) With regard to the universality of symbolisms over the world, please visit Joseph Campbell, �The Power of Myth,� at your local library or bookstore shelf (religion/philosophy). 

       

      They�re ALL the Dream Master, realized through the individual's consciousness.

       

      Choose your tupper-ware. 

       

      The point is, one�s relationship within the ecstatic experience of [somebody or other's] spiritual realization IS the real destination. To outsiders, one�s teacher may look like anybody else's. We mustn�t get hung up on semantics.

       

      Think of a world religion responsible for the emergence of modern European civilization. One that still has a profound place in the lives of believers. Those who adhere to the practices of this religion have a photo, too. Yet, we are not attacking *them.*

       

      Similarly, within the shabdha teaching, there is, as well, a vehicle for the enlightened. Where is the contradiction? It isn�t until one tries to make comparisons, or impose one�s religious or intellectual orientation on the world, that there is a contradiction. That�s when we discover all the undeniable dichotomies and irreconcilable differences of other points of view.

       

      In simplest terms, different systems are not be commensurate with one another. Is that such a vast stretch of the imagination? Eck is all hooey. So, oddly enough, is 'not eck' a lot of hooey, doesn't it stand to reason.

       

      Contact with absolute reality without the mask of cultural or religious identifications is upper-division spiritual practice, for there is no name attached. Therefore, grass-hopper, these are merely guises.

       

      The world is a description, Carlitos, one which one must live with, change, or locate one's cubic centemeter of chance, none the less. We peel away the fabric of any description through a spiritual practice and relationship with the Divine 'not-eck.' Then, through the �intercession� of the savior, master, guru, spiritual shabd current, secret docoder ring, with practice over a lifetime our old material states of consciousness are �absolved� and 'forgiven' within the totality of ourselves as spiritual 'not-eck' beings.

       

      So, Eckists want to do it their way. Let them have their way and Truth. Lets have our Cocoa-puffs. They can have their Captian Crunch. And we can have our 'not-eck.' I wouldn't be at all surprised if every enlightened telivision commercial sent from advertising hades tries to shares something of the luminous 'not-eck' experience of the no-thing soul.

       

      >>Fishnik.

      just yesterday i phoned to discuss her exodus [from Eckankar], and discovered that she had not only stayed in the cult, but doubled her commitment. she told me that on the very night that we had discussed twitchells plagarism she had a terrible inner dream experience. she had been confronted with a horrible terrifying void in the dream, and she had awakened in a panic. [To which is replied:]

       

      T.C.

      Don't panic. People connected with an initiatory program to the light and sound current are brought into aligment through a carrier wave, or protective enclosure of the master-matrix, the spiritual configuration of a 14th initiate from Valley of Tirmir Drive. Alchemy symbolized this with a perfectly (or hermetically) sealed container, whereby the primodial material (soul, psyche) is brought to perfection through a spectrum of colours, on the way to the lapis excelis (somehtin which, also, doesn't exist).

       

      Things which don't exist, we needn't worry ourselves with here.

       

      I should leave off here now, with Alf and Sharon and ShabdaHu and Fishnik and all our hubris.

       

      luv

      T.C.

      eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      Message: 1
      Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:03:14 -0000
      From: al_radzik
      Subject: Re: There's a certain lack of humility


      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "cohutche" wrote:
      >
      > In most of the posts I've read so far on this board.
      >
      > (I am a new member).
      >
      > Simon
      >

      Hi Simon....
      Don't worry, I don't bite!
      Just remember.....humility is not a criteria for being here. I am a
      loud, crude, brash and boisterous Eck basher and don't like beating
      around the bush or mince words....

      Alf

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com

    • m hussain
      Excellent post TC, my thoughts exactly although I could never put it as eloquently as your self. Even though eckanakar has its failings I have come to the
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 28, 2005
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        Excellent post TC, my thoughts exactly although I could never put it as eloquently as your self. Even though eckanakar has its failings I have come to the conclusion that it undoubtedly works. People have had very enriching experiences in eckankar that have helped them them in their spiritual progress, i.e many people have learned soul travel as a result of the spiritual exercises, I myself have had dreams that have helped me (on one occasion while in eckankar a dream helped save my job), whether it was the dream master or higher self or Casper the ghost I don't know, all I know it worked as a result of the techniques I learned while in eckankar.
        I have been out of eckankar for over two years now (after 15 years of being an ecky), and have been looking into other teachings (after becoming disillusioned by HCS), and so far have come to the conclusion that Eckankar is the teaching that is closest to the truth(although it may not be the whole truth).But it is based on principles that are true and work.
        But the problem for me is that I still don't know who is guiding me ( higher self,mahantah or even the angels). I have been reading a lot about Angels lately and some of the experiences people have had are astounding.
        I am not pro eckankar or anti religion, I am of the school of thought that "if it works then use it". This is just my opinion and experience, I do not expect everyone to agree with me but thought I would write in to see of anyone has had similar experiences or opinions.
         
         
        Thomas Bennett <thomascbennett@...> wrote:

        ShabdaHu.

        . . . the progenitor's of Eckankar, which are

        Sant Mat and Radhaosoami - they're actually not high on the real

        enlightened scale among gurus.  [To which is replied:]

         

        T.C.

        So, let�s fit it together. Sant Mat and Radhaosoami are not the source of Twitchells�s system. You�re just generalizing, to make a point about Twitchell�s debt to the shabd paths. Twitchell is endbted to many sources, and so, for example, is Christianity, for that matter. Twitchell's method of appropriation is just more obvious in the method of compilation.

         

        A university upper division theology class is a little too removed from an unenlightened consumerism and uncritical examination of popular culture and received knowledge.

         

        A teaching �real high on the enlightened scale among gurus� is merely the system you�re presently practicing, receiving a high rating because you�re getting results. Other people are getting results, too. For example, Catholics have a teaching high on the �enlightened scale,' among only begotten sons, and one backed up by scripture.

         

        And so do Eckists, and Buddhists, and everybody else, for that matter. Cultural relativism may not be one's forte around here. In an eternal NOW, you raise the consciousness by meditation, prayer, contemplation, karma yoga, motorcycle maintanence, and mindfulness while loading the dishwasher or driving to work. �Truth is One, the local gurus give it all the different names.� (Ekam Sat Vipre, Bahudha Vedanta.)

         

        >T.C.

        > The dream master as terminology is only semantics. [To which is replied:]

         

        >>Sharon.

        Nope, the "dream master" stuff is NOT just semantics.  The cult teaches that Klemp *is* the dream master.   At at official cult intros on dreams, his photo,  which is displayed at *all* eckfunctions, is held up for the benefit of inquiring newbies.   And they're told that this is the dream

        master, the person you should visualize when you're starting your study

        of your dreams.   [To which is replied:]

         

        T.C.

        What do you base your conclusion on? Their experience of the Dream Master? Or yours?

         

        Let them have their spiritual experience. The Hopi Indians can have the Katchinas. Three little children can have their Miracle of Fatima. Its OK, you can have yours. (Heck Bashin.) With regard to the universality of symbolisms over the world, please visit Joseph Campbell, �The Power of Myth,� at your local library or bookstore shelf (religion/philosophy). 

         

        They�re ALL the Dream Master, realized through the individual's consciousness.

         

        Choose your tupper-ware. 

         

        The point is, one�s relationship within the ecstatic experience of [somebody or other's] spiritual realization IS the real destination. To outsiders, one�s teacher may look like anybody else's. We mustn�t get hung up on semantics.

         

        Think of a world religion responsible for the emergence of modern European civilization. One that still has a profound place in the lives of believers. Those who adhere to the practices of this religion have a photo, too. Yet, we are not attacking *them.*

         

        Similarly, within the shabdha teaching, there is, as well, a vehicle for the enlightened. Where is the contradiction? It isn�t until one tries to make comparisons, or impose one�s religious or intellectual orientation on the world, that there is a contradiction. That�s when we discover all the undeniable dichotomies and irreconcilable differences of other points of view.

         

        In simplest terms, different systems are not be commensurate with one another. Is that such a vast stretch of the imagination? Eck is all hooey. So, oddly enough, is 'not eck' a lot of hooey, doesn't it stand to reason.

         

        Contact with absolute reality without the mask of cultural or religious identifications is upper-division spiritual practice, for there is no name attached. Therefore, grass-hopper, these are merely guises.

         

        The world is a description, Carlitos, one which one must live with, change, or locate one's cubic centemeter of chance, none the less. We peel away the fabric of any description through a spiritual practice and relationship with the Divine 'not-eck.' Then, through the �intercession� of the savior, master, guru, spiritual shabd current, secret docoder ring, with practice over a lifetime our old material states of consciousness are �absolved� and 'forgiven' within the totality of ourselves as spiritual 'not-eck' beings.

         

        So, Eckists want to do it their way. Let them have their way and Truth. Lets have our Cocoa-puffs. They can have their Captian Crunch. And we can have our 'not-eck.' I wouldn't be at all surprised if every enlightened telivision commercial sent from advertising hades tries to shares something of the luminous 'not-eck' experience of the no-thing soul.

         

        >>Fishnik.

        just yesterday i phoned to discuss her exodus [from Eckankar], and discovered that she had not only stayed in the cult, but doubled her commitment. she told me that on the very night that we had discussed twitchells plagarism she had a terrible inner dream experience. she had been confronted with a horrible terrifying void in the dream, and she had awakened in a panic. [To which is replied:]

         

        T.C.

        Don't panic. People connected with an initiatory program to the light and sound current are brought into aligment through a carrier wave, or protective enclosure of the master-matrix, the spiritual configuration of a 14th initiate from Valley of Tirmir Drive. Alchemy symbolized this with a perfectly (or hermetically) sealed container, whereby the primodial material (soul, psyche) is brought to perfection through a spectrum of colours, on the way to the lapis excelis (somehtin which, also, doesn't exist).

         

        Things which don't exist, we needn't worry ourselves with here.

         

        I should leave off here now, with Alf and Sharon and ShabdaHu and Fishnik and all our hubris.

         

        luv

        T.C.

        eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com wrote:

        Message: 1
        Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:03:14 -0000
        From: al_radzik
        Subject: Re: There's a certain lack of humility


        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "cohutche" wrote:
        >
        > In most of the posts I've read so far on this board.
        >
        > (I am a new member).
        >
        > Simon
        >

        Hi Simon....
        Don't worry, I don't bite!
        Just remember.....humility is not a criteria for being here. I am a
        loud, crude, brash and boisterous Eck basher and don't like beating
        around the bush or mince words....

        Alf

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com

      • rumizappo
        ... actually comprehending anything you re reading and even rearrange the meaning of it. ... which are Sant Mat and Radhaosoami - they re actually not high on
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 29, 2005
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          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, ShabdaHu <shabdahu@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi TC.
          >
          > Wow. What extraordinary reading methods you use; just cut out
          actually comprehending anything you're reading and even rearrange the
          meaning of it.
          >
          > How did you get from this, the quote from my e-mail:
          >
          > "And I'm not referring to simply the progenitor's of Eckankar,
          which are Sant Mat and Radhaosoami - they're actually not high on the
          real enlightened scale among gurus. They've infected their paths with
          a lot of personality and personal proclivities that they wish to make
          seem God authoritative and which are not."
          >
          > To this, the response from your e-mail:
          >
          > "A teaching `real high on the enlightened scale among gurus' is
          merely the system you're presently practicing, receiving a high
          rating because you're getting results. Other people are getting
          results, too. For example, Catholics have a teaching high on
          the `enlightened scale,' among only begotten sons, and one backed up
          by scripture."
          >
          > There was nothing in my statement remotely saying that I was
          practicing a system with gurus that I was saying, "were not real high
          on the enlightened scale". You even have in there that I'm rating
          them highly. And then you missed altogether the more salient point
          that many inject their personalities into the path and try to make
          their personal opinions seem God authoritative.
          >
          > Also, you weren't being invited to inform me of what I meant by any
          of my statements that you are apparently incapable of comprehending
          what they really meant, anyway, and any sincere conversationalist
          would never utilize that tactic. They would ask a question, not look
          anxious to drop their pretentious baloney on whomever they could, and
          go to the extremes of rearranging meanings to make the opportunity
          appear for dropping pretentious baloney. You're completely off in
          your surmisals of why I said what I said, what I actually meant, and
          your "loosely true" statement about Paul appropriations sounds like
          it was lifted from an Eck apolopathetics book. Your other statement
          about Sant Mat/Radhasoami not being the source of Eckankar's
          cosmologies and psychology, is just flat out ignorant or devised as
          more Eck apolopathetics. Of course, you didn't know that I was
          referring to their cosmology/psychology, and the fact that all in
          Eckankar has inherited that history more particularly than
          > any other, because you didn't ask and you're not interested in the
          details of those particular subjects.
          >
          > In cases like that, you should, in order not to appear as though
          you need to dream up BS to look superior, just simply say, "I don't
          understand this point, I'm a blaise 'it's all one' kind of person and
          I can't relate to non-blaise 'it's all one' kinds of people (that
          fact was one reason this list was created, btw, in case you missed
          that blazingly obvious point, too - the extreme separtism of
          Eckankar/it's tendency to trash other paths, which they inherited
          from their parent path of SM/Rad., is one reason this list exists -
          because people got real sick of the lying, separtism notions - you
          might want to pick up that point to be a little more in step here).
          >
          > Or just admit that you're on an agenda on this list that you can't
          be more honest in speaking about because it's actually against other
          major points in the list's agenda.
          >
          > And then you go on to make yourself appear spiritually eclectic and
          like who you're speaking to isn't. And that's after you
          slash/rearrange other's writings and show no capacity at even
          attempting to understand their communications? It's a wonder you were
          able to pick up in your readings that other paths, like Buddhism,
          Christianity, etc., experience results. It must have suited something
          in your manipulations to see that, because it's obvious that when it
          doesn't suit your manipulations, you studiously don't comprehend
          anything.
          >
          > Manipulations and phony baloney are wreaking from your post here.
          Your form of teaching eclectic notions, which doesn't really feel
          like your truer motives - it's all been so well wrapped to come off
          as Eck apolopathetics, and come off as condscending besides, are not
          appreciated. If you can't be sincere and eye-to-eye with people with
          whom you're writing, it's doubtful you are the same with anything
          spiritual in your life, and you might want to work on that problem to
          get to the point where you have anything truly valuable to say. Using
          quality spiritual notions to hide low quality, dishonest motives
          isn't really one of the brighter things to be doing with "spiritual
          things".
          >
          > And what's this garbage?:
          >
          > "A university upper division theology class is a little too removed
          from an unenlightened consumerism and uncritical examination of
          popular culture and received knowledge".
          >
          > You think people are too stupid to get highly detailed about their
          paths/yoga/gurus knowledge, while they are also realizing, or should
          be treated as such because they're simply unenlightened "consumers"
          and can't handle any more complex knowledges? And that they
          shouldn't be subjected to anything upper division so they can remain
          being mushrooms being fed BS in the dark? Or is this simply the "I
          can't dazzle them with brilliance, so I'll attempt to baffle them
          with BS?" tactics?
          >
          > I'm really not looking for an answer by asking that question. It
          was just so obviously designed to make you look like you're bright,
          at least in your view, that I just had to give it a little star show
          here. What you're about is most obvious in the whole of your e-mail.
          >
          > Bye.
          >
          > shabdahu.
          >
          >
          > Thomas Bennett <thomascbennett@y...> wrote:
          > ShabdaHu.
          >
          > . . . the progenitor's of Eckankar, which are
          >
          > Sant Mat and Radhaosoami - they're actually not high on the real
          >
          > enlightened scale among gurus. [To which is replied:]
          >
          >
          >
          > T.C.
          >
          > So, let's fit it together. Sant Mat and Radhaosoami are not the
          source of Twitchells's system. You're just generalizing, to make a
          point about Twitchell's debt to the shabd paths. Twitchell is endbted
          to many sources, and so, for example, is Christianity, for that
          matter. Twitchell's method of appropriation is just more obvious in
          the method of compilation.
          >
          >
          >
          > A university upper division theology class is a little too removed
          from an unenlightened consumerism and uncritical examination of
          popular culture and received knowledge.
          >
          >
          >
          > A teaching `real high on the enlightened scale among gurus' is
          merely the system you're presently practicing, receiving a high
          rating because you're getting results. Other people are getting
          results, too. For example, Catholics have a teaching high on
          the `enlightened scale,' among only begotten sons, and one backed up
          by scripture.
          >
          >
          >
          > And so do Eckists, and Buddhists, and everybody else, for that
          matter. Cultural relativism may not be one's forte around here. In an
          eternal NOW, you raise the consciousness by meditation, prayer,
          contemplation, karma yoga, motorcycle maintanence, and mindfulness
          while loading the dishwasher or driving to work. `Truth is One, the
          local gurus give it all the different names.' (Ekam Sat Vipre,
          Bahudha Vedanta.)
          >
          >
          >
          > >T.C.
          >
          > > The dream master as terminology is only semantics. [To which is
          replied:]
          >
          >
          >
          > >>Sharon.
          >
          > Nope, the "dream master" stuff is NOT just semantics. The cult
          teaches that Klemp *is* the dream master. At at official cult
          intros on dreams, his photo, which is displayed at *all*
          eckfunctions, is held up for the benefit of inquiring newbies. And
          they're told that this is the dream
          >
          > master, the person you should visualize when you're starting your
          study
          >
          > of your dreams. [To which is replied:]
          >
          >
          >
          > T.C.
          >
          > What do you base your conclusion on? Their experience of the Dream
          Master? Or yours?
          >
          >
          >
          > Let them have their spiritual experience. The Hopi Indians can have
          the Katchinas. Three little children can have their Miracle of
          Fatima. Its OK, you can have yours. (Heck Bashin.) With regard to the
          universality of symbolisms over the world, please visit Joseph
          Campbell, "The Power of Myth," at your local library or bookstore
          shelf (religion/philosophy).
          >
          >
          >
          > They're ALL the Dream Master, realized through the individual's
          consciousness.
          >
          >
          >
          > Choose your tupper-ware.
          >
          >
          >
          > The point is, one's relationship within the ecstatic experience of
          [somebody or other's] spiritual realization IS the real destination.
          To outsiders, one's teacher may look like anybody else's. We mustn't
          get hung up on semantics.
          >
          >
          >
          > Think of a world religion responsible for the emergence of modern
          European civilization. One that still has a profound place in the
          lives of believers. Those who adhere to the practices of this
          religion have a photo, too. Yet, we are not attacking *them.*
          >
          >
          >
          > Similarly, within the shabdha teaching, there is, as well, a
          vehicle for the enlightened. Where is the contradiction? It isn't
          until one tries to make comparisons, or impose one's religious or
          intellectual orientation on the world, that there is a contradiction.
          That's when we discover all the undeniable dichotomies and
          irreconcilable differences of other points of view.
          >
          >
          >
          > In simplest terms, different systems are not be commensurate with
          one another. Is that such a vast stretch of the imagination? Eck is
          all hooey. So, oddly enough, is 'not eck' a lot of hooey, doesn't it
          stand to reason.
          >
          >
          >
          > Contact with absolute reality without the mask of cultural or
          religious identifications is upper-division spiritual practice, for
          there is no name attached. Therefore, grass-hopper, these are merely
          guises.
          >
          >
          >
          > The world is a description, Carlitos, one which one must live with,
          change, or locate one's cubic centemeter of chance, none the less. We
          peel away the fabric of any description through a spiritual practice
          and relationship with the Divine 'not-eck.' Then, through
          the `intercession' of the savior, master, guru, spiritual shabd
          current, secret docoder ring, with practice over a lifetime our old
          material states of consciousness are `absolved' and 'forgiven' within
          the totality of ourselves as spiritual 'not-eck' beings.
          >
          >
          >
          > So, Eckists want to do it their way. Let them have their way and
          Truth. Lets have our Cocoa-puffs. They can have their Captian Crunch.
          And we can have our 'not-eck.' I wouldn't be at all surprised if
          every enlightened telivision commercial sent from advertising hades
          tries to shares something of the luminous 'not-eck' experience of the
          no-thing soul.
          >
          >
          >
          > >>Fishnik.
          >
          > just yesterday i phoned to discuss her exodus [from Eckankar], and
          discovered that she had not only stayed in the cult, but doubled her
          commitment. she told me that on the very night that we had discussed
          twitchells plagarism she had a terrible inner dream experience. she
          had been confronted with a horrible terrifying void in the dream, and
          she had awakened in a panic. [To which is replied:]
          >
          >
          >
          > T.C.
          >
          > Don't panic. People connected with an initiatory program to the
          light and sound current are brought into aligment through a carrier
          wave, or protective enclosure of the master-matrix, the spiritual
          configuration of a 14th initiate from Valley of Tirmir Drive. Alchemy
          symbolized this with a perfectly (or hermetically) sealed container,
          whereby the primodial material (soul, psyche) is brought to
          perfection through a spectrum of colours, on the way to the lapis
          excelis (somehtin which, also, doesn't exist).
          >
          >
          >
          > Things which don't exist, we needn't worry ourselves with here.
          >
          >
          >
          > I should leave off here now, with Alf and Sharon and ShabdaHu and
          Fishnik and all our hubris.
          >
          >
          >
          > luv
          >
          > T.C.
          >
          > eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com wrote:
          > Message: 1
          > Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:03:14 -0000
          > From: al_radzik
          > Subject: Re: There's a certain lack of humility
          >
          >
          > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "cohutche" wrote:
          > >
          > > In most of the posts I've read so far on this board.
          > >
          > > (I am a new member).
          > >
          > > Simon
          > >
          >
          > Hi Simon....
          > Don't worry, I don't bite!
          > Just remember.....humility is not a criteria for being here. I am a
          > loud, crude, brash and boisterous Eck basher and don't like beating
          > around the bush or mince words....
          >
          > Alf
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
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        • rumizappo
          ... This is for ShabdaHu: Hi there ShabdaHu I was just wondering if you are an ECKist or an EK or Ex ECKist, that is, one who has gone outside or beyond the
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 29, 2005
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            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, ShabdaHu <shabdahu@y...> wrote:
            > <snipped repeat of that long, long post!)

            This is for ShabdaHu:

            Hi there ShabdaHu

            I was just wondering if you are an ECKist or an EK or Ex ECKist, that
            is, one who has gone outside or beyond the present Harold Klemp
            bedtime story of ECKANKAR.

            By the way, love your name. (Honestly)

            Sincerely,

            SpaceGivingIsRumi
          • rumizappo
            ... joined another western group that was more based around Sant Mat itself, particularly Science of Spirituality, which was the path Paul left before creating
            Message 5 of 5 , May 2, 2005
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              --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, ShabdaHu <shabdahu@y...> wrote:
              > Hi SpaceGivingIsRumi.
              >
              > I'm an ex-Eckist. I was a member of Eckankar for 3 years, left and
              joined another western group that was more based around Sant Mat
              itself, particularly Science of Spirituality, which was the path Paul
              left before creating Eckankar. Then I left that, too<S>, but not
              until I'd studied quite a bit of it and then began to see the *spins*
              it had put on the bhakti yoga path and over which SM had no original
              claims.
              >
              > The name shabdahu came from marrying one favorite word of the SM's
              for sound with Hoooooo or Whooooooooooo, which I came to know in it's
              sound as an inner "wind" a few years before I found Eckankar, and
              which I can see you know is also the main word for God for at least
              most Sufi paths. But I didn't know anything of those paths, or any
              path, when I first experienced Hooooo and I spell it that way to
              indicate the more pronunciation I intend for it and as compared to
              Eckankar.
              >



              Hi Shabdahu!


              > Of course, shabda is just a general sanskrit word for sound,
              however, and isn't a creation of the SM's. And these years later, I
              realize, too, that Hoooo or Whooo as a wind sound is one of
              those "doesn't belong to any culture" sounds; it's a sound that
              occurs for every culture with the same sound. It's like sohum that
              way, and which is the sounds the breath makes on intake and
              expellation. I've also seen Hooo classified as a seed mantra because
              it is one syllable. Someday I may be changing Hu to Hoo to further
              underscore it's pronunication and to make it cultureless.
              >
              > I read a lot of Rumi, however, and love his works, like just about
              everyone else does, it seems:). He's been a real mainstay for me
              many times on the path.
              >
              > In Hoooo,
              >
              > shabdahu.
              >
              >
              >

              Hi Shabdahu!

              Thanks for responding. I first read about ECKANKAR in 1969 when I was
              thirteen, but didn't find anyone who was in it until four years
              later, so I became a member in 1973.

              My renewal came up earlier this year, but for so many reasons some of
              us know all too well, I finally let it go.

              I read a little bit about Sant Mat when I was thirteen, but didn't
              really know much about it until the late seventies. I have been
              reading Rumi since I was thirteen and fortunately (for the most part)
              there are alot more Rumi translators than there were in the sixties
              and seventies!

              And, of course, Rumi has his own webpage on "Sri" Michael Owens' site
              (!) But how did his poetry get so bad over 700 years? Has he been
              drinking Mad Dog or Boones Farm?

              I agree with you that Hu is really pronounced Hoo or a balance
              between Hugh and Hoo...

              And that Hu doesn't belong to any particular path and has been around
              all throughout history in various cultures all over the world.

              But you knew that!

              Anyway, thanks for responding.

              SpaceGivingIsRumi








              >
              > rumizappo <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
              > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, ShabdaHu <shabdahu@y...>
              wrote:
              > > <snipped repeat of that long, long post!)
              >
              > This is for ShabdaHu:
              >
              > Hi there ShabdaHu
              >
              > I was just wondering if you are an ECKist or an EK or Ex ECKist,
              that
              > is, one who has gone outside or beyond the present Harold Klemp
              > bedtime story of ECKANKAR.
              >
              > By the way, love your name. (Honestly)
              >
              > Sincerely,
              >
              > SpaceGivingIsRumi
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > eckankartruth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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