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Re: [eckankartruth] How did you "start over"?

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  • Ganesh622@cs.com
    I have been in Eckankar for less than 2 years.Yes, that means I haven t received my 2nd initiation.I refused it.Just because I feel that this is not the path
    Message 1 of 15 , May 21 7:17 PM
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      I have been in Eckankar for less than 2 years.Yes, that means I haven't
      received my 2nd initiation.I refused it.Just because I feel that this is not the
      path for me.I cannot see Harold Klemp as my spiritual master.Nor can I see
      anyone else in that role.I feel that Eckankar hit on some very valid frequencies,
      but the transmission is garbled.It is garbled by pride and greed and vanity, as
      are all truths(including our own).I feel that ,sooner or later ,no matter how
      hard we resist, we must come to the responsibility of creating our own
      personal religion and drop the training wheels.A guru or guide who says one is to
      eventually leave is bonifide,one who forces one to stay is bogus.
    • Karen Hunter
      very well said...!!! esp. the part about eventually getting off the training wheels and creating our own personal religion...that is what I was doing before
      Message 2 of 15 , May 24 9:14 AM
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        very well said...!!! esp. the part about eventually getting off the training wheels and creating our own personal religion...that is what I was doing before Eckankar, and for the life of me, I can't really figure out why I joined...curious about past lives, I guess.

        While I did enjoy many of the people I met in Eckankar, I am enjoying creating my own personal path even more!!! Every day without Eckankar gets better and better...filled with peace, love, understand, freedom, success...

        I have been a nature lover all my life and find that is what is sustaining me now...while I eventually might like to join a spiritual study or discussion group when I move to a new city later this summer, I don't feel a big push to.

        Despite the emphasis on creative arts in Eckankar, I found that the busyness of the outer organization, ie, religion, took much time away from the solitude I need to be a creative person. I thought it was so cool that people wrote songs, and performed at worship services, like it was something unique! And I guess it is compared to Christianity...but hey, Eckankar doesn't have a monolopy on creativity...just do it and find a way to get it out there is my new motto! There is much freedom in that.

        I used to get really confused about Eckankar...and frustrated...I felt like there was a pattern I was supposed to fit into, and thought Harold had a lot of dos and don'ts...I REALLY got sick of hearing about Maybury's Laws...

        Now I feel more free to follow my heart in each individual situation...

        Starting over for me is re-recognizing my own inner beauty and that of others, and sharing and celebrating it.

        Love,
        Karen

        Ganesh622@... wrote:
        I have been in Eckankar for less than 2 years.Yes, that means I haven't
        received my 2nd initiation.I refused it.Just because I feel that this is not the
        path for me.I cannot see Harold Klemp as my spiritual master.Nor can I see
        anyone else in that role.I feel that Eckankar hit on some very valid frequencies,
        but the transmission is garbled.It is garbled by pride and greed and vanity, as
        are all truths(including our own).I feel that ,sooner or later ,no matter how
        hard we resist, we must come to the responsibility of creating our own
        personal religion and drop the training wheels.A guru or guide who says one is to
        eventually leave is bonifide,one who forces one to stay is bogus.

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      • colleen
        Congratulations in leaving a group which is deceptive, in my opinion. I can understand your feelings and it s very common to those of us who have left a
        Message 3 of 15 , May 27 1:12 PM
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          Congratulations in leaving a group which is deceptive,
          in my opinion. I can understand your feelings and
          it's very common to those of us who have left a
          community and leaders we've given our all to,
          especially our own inner reliance and authority.

          I've been essentially out of active duty in eckankar
          since 1977, although I didn't have the courage to
          leave, officially, until 1984, since affected on a
          deep level by the negative and controlling messages of
          what would happen to me, a "7th initiate", should I
          leave the "path". Well, I have news -- none of it did
          happen. In fact, I became stronger, more alive, more
          connected with others, and life. I didn't have to
          keep up the appearance of what a "higher initiate"
          should be, nor keep myself through learned guilt from
          realistically analyzing the claims of
          Twitchell/Gross/Klemp. Nor did I need to view the
          world as a "chosen one" which we also learned,
          devaluing those "less spiritually aware." I got away
          from some dangerous other "higher initiates" who
          exploited and manipulated others to satisfy their
          hunger for power. And so much more...

          Regarding what you commented upon about joining
          another group, I'd suggest you slow down and go
          carefully. In my experience, it takes at least a
          year, probably more, to recognize how the eckankar
          messages were deeply internalized and to reclaim one's
          own authenticity. Without having more objectivity,
          any of us could get involved in another eckankar-like
          group and stall our true freedom of knowing who we are
          and being ourselves. Even if a person does get conned
          again, at some point the discomfort of having to
          "surrender" to the "higher authority" gets too much, I
          believe, and too difficult to suppress. With
          education about controlling, authoritarian cults one
          becomes wiser and has less vulnerability in being
          seduced. Some people consider membership in a
          organization like eckankar a "spiritual rape".

          You state that now you don't have any anger and that's
          to be respected. However, I know that eckankar
          discouraged anger, claiming it was one of the
          "passions of the mind", within the "Kal" domain. Does
          this make it difficult to feel angry? For me, it
          did..."Mahdis'" weren't supposed to be this human.
          Now I realize that suppressing anger is one of the
          most dangerous practices since what one suppresses can
          "bite" unexpectedly. Connie Sweig edited a great book
          on The Shadow (Don't have the full title right now),
          with articles by Joseph Campbell, Carl Jung, Robert
          Bly, Robert Jay Lifton, and other excellent writers on
          our shadow sides which we can accept as being human.
          Even the word, "human", has negative connotations, in
          my understanding, from being in eckankar or other
          cults in which members are encouraged to think of
          themselves as "spiritual" with our "humanness"
          devalued. I now realize this is done in an attempt to
          gain more control while we split from who we really
          are, our wholeness.

          What worked for me was that I found an acting group in
          which I was very involved right after leaving
          eckankar. This really helped me in terms of being
          part of and supported by a community while developing
          my skills and myself as an adult (which one couldn't
          or can't be while in an org like eckankar, in my
          opinion). I took a break from anything so-called
          "spiritual" and learned about values and survivor
          skills. Others have become involved in other
          communities related to their individual interests, be
          it cooking, astronomy, gardening, etc.

          I wish you well in your transition. Even though it
          can be uncomfortable at times, the discomfort and pain
          means you are actually experiencing what you feel,
          rather than numbing and having what I consider "pseudo
          love and acceptance" for self and others, as I learned
          in eckankar. Although I certainly didn't realize it
          at the time, if I departed from the eckankar dogma I
          wouldn't be loved nor could I accept myself since that
          was considered "negative." In other words, the more I
          swallowed the dogma, and the leader's beliefs, the
          more I could partake in the "love" of the "eck" as we
          were programmed to believe. I now regard this as a
          kind of "narcissistic glow" amongst myself and other
          members, certainly a love which was very conditional.

          If you are interested, come by to our Ex-Eckankar
          Support, at Yahoo groups.

          Regards,
          Colleen
          --- angelcry48 <angelcry48@...> wrote:
          > This is my first year as a "non-member" of Eckankar.
          > I can only
          > describe what I feel as being very disappointed and
          > disillusioned. I
          > don't feel angry, or "betrayed", just let down. And
          > I do feel like
          > there is a big hole in my life. I so wanted this to
          > be a valid
          > path! Now I feel as though I am "searching" again!
          > I have an
          > aversion to joining any "organized religion", as I
          > feel they are all
          > out to take your money. I am tired of hearing all
          > these religions
          > saying they are the "only" path to God! What have
          > all of you done
          > since leaving Eckankar? Have any of you "joined"
          > another group?
          > Found someting that makes sense to you?
          >
          > I would really like to know. Thanks for listening.
          >
          >


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        • al_radzik
          Many years ago, there were several scheisters who duped people into buying the Brooklyn Bridge and other NYC landmarks. One fellow actually bought Penn Station
          Message 4 of 15 , May 28 8:20 AM
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            Many years ago, there were several scheisters who duped people into
            buying the Brooklyn Bridge and other NYC landmarks. One fellow
            actually bought Penn Station for $25,000!
            Now of course these scheisters were immoral scam artists but one has
            to wonder about the gullibility of the people who forked over the
            cash!
            For a year I fervently studied Eckankar, wishing it were the answer
            to all my questions and had actually planned a trip to one of their
            seminars.
            Once in a while I would get a feeling like "aha" this is it, but
            something I would read, feel or sense afterwards negated that notion
            and my bullshit meter would go off.
            I never read Lane in those days. I never knew a.r.e. existed.. ALl I
            knew was a few fellows in my town who were Eckists and blamed myself
            for just not getting it. I took the discourses and read the books and
            the more I chanted HU and talked with people in satsang, the less I
            ws impressed with this path.
            I always hate to bring this stuff up because it may offend people,
            but FWIW, I truly feel the crux of the problem is the person who
            let's it take over their entire existence because they are
            desperately seeking answers and got suckered into Eckankars false
            promises. Idon't know what it feels like to be let down so hard, but
            it makes me wonder if you would be the kind of person who would
            follow the same road into a new and similar path only to get
            disappointed again.
            As far as God goes,I'm starting to believe in a "Designer God". That
            is to say, make your own peace with your own perceptions of what God
            is. If you have faith, and that's all you need, make up a name for
            your God and a pattern of behaviour that pleases both yourself and
            God. You can take it from several sources, but it will after all be
            YOUR own special God.
            I have had it with Faith without reason. Every argument about the
            existence of God can only be brought to one single
            thing.....sujective faith. if you are reasonable and not aftraid to,
            question EVERYTHING! Look at these whacko Christians who actually
            believe the world is only 6000 years old. Look at these militant
            offshoots of Islam who are terrorizing the world. Look at Israel and
            Palestine where busloads of children get killed daily. Look at
            Eckankar...a diluted nonsensical path that has existed longer than it
            should with it's fake Masters and Bullshit Mahanta that leave people
            like you in the wilderness, empty and alone. Don't fall in the same
            hole again. Find something that you feel comfortable with. Good luck.


            Alf


            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "angelcry48" <angelcry48@a...>
            wrote:
            > This is my first year as a "non-member" of Eckankar. I can only
            > describe what I feel as being very disappointed and disillusioned.
            I
            > don't feel angry, or "betrayed", just let down. And I do feel like
            > there is a big hole in my life. I so wanted this to be a valid
            > path! Now I feel as though I am "searching" again! I have an
            > aversion to joining any "organized religion", as I feel they are
            all
            > out to take your money. I am tired of hearing all these religions
            > saying they are the "only" path to God! What have all of you done
            > since leaving Eckankar? Have any of you "joined" another group?
            > Found someting that makes sense to you?
            >
            > I would really like to know. Thanks for listening.
          • Ganesh622@cs.com
            I really like my life without Eckankar.All I know is Klemp turned a path that seemed quite colorful(true or not) and made it so utterly bland, that I thought
            Message 5 of 15 , May 29 4:38 AM
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              I really like my life without Eckankar.All I know is Klemp turned a path
              that seemed quite colorful(true or not) and made it so utterly bland, that I
              thought at times I was at some boring Lutheran church service.I didn't care for
              his essays on history or his patronizing tone toward Native Americans.BTW, I
              always had an issue with this tale of "master" Fubbi Quantz turning on Columbus
              to the New World. Considering what a creep Columbus was,it's nothing to brag
              about.

              Ever listen to Eck music from the Eck Songbook?I've heard better stuff in an
              elevator.Gimme Ravi Shankar, Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis etc any day!
            • maya2846@yahoo.com
              I agree -- Amazing HU is a perfect example of claiming and changing a beautiful piece of music with a wonderful story and bastardize it to claim ownership.
              Message 6 of 15 , May 29 9:45 AM
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                I agree -- Amazing HU is a perfect example of claiming and changing a
                beautiful piece of music with a wonderful story and 'bastardize' it
                to claim ownership. I could never understand the restrictions
                on "Eck" music -- art, music, life is spiritual......

                This has been a very interesting journey. The 'path' had changed
                over the years to seeking truth and being one's own master to
                dependence and fear and power. Free -- Free at last --
                well always Free -- just the realization.....

                Love * Laugh, Live Life in the Moment.

                --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Ganesh622@c... wrote:
                > I really like my life without Eckankar.All I know is Klemp turned
                a path
                > that seemed quite colorful(true or not) and made it so utterly
                bland, that I
                > thought at times I was at some boring Lutheran church service.I
                didn't care for
                > his essays on history or his patronizing tone toward Native
                Americans.BTW, I
                > always had an issue with this tale of "master" Fubbi Quantz
                turning on Columbus
                > to the New World. Considering what a creep Columbus was,it's
                nothing to brag
                > about.
                >
                > Ever listen to Eck music from the Eck Songbook?I've heard better
                stuff in an
                > elevator.Gimme Ravi Shankar, Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis etc any day!
              • al_radzik
                Are you saying they changed Amazing Grace to Amazing HU? When will the plagirism stop? By the way, I did hear some Eck Songs. The Twitch That Stole Christmas
                Message 7 of 15 , May 30 6:24 AM
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                  Are you saying they changed Amazing Grace to Amazing HU?
                  When will the plagirism stop?
                  By the way, I did hear some Eck Songs.

                  "The Twitch That Stole Christmas"
                  "Which Way You Going, Fubbi"
                  "The HUkey Pukey"
                  "Inagadadasugmad"

                  Alf




                  --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, maya2846@y... wrote:
                  > I agree -- Amazing HU is a perfect example of claiming and changing a
                  > beautiful piece of music with a wonderful story and 'bastardize' it
                  > to claim ownership. I could never understand the restrictions
                  > on "Eck" music -- art, music, life is spiritual......
                  >
                  > This has been a very interesting journey. The 'path' had changed
                  > over the years to seeking truth and being one's own master to
                  > dependence and fear and power. Free -- Free at last --
                  > well always Free -- just the realization.....
                  >
                  > Love * Laugh, Live Life in the Moment.
                  >
                  > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Ganesh622@c... wrote:
                  > > I really like my life without Eckankar.All I know is Klemp turned
                  > a path
                  > > that seemed quite colorful(true or not) and made it so utterly
                  > bland, that I
                  > > thought at times I was at some boring Lutheran church service.I
                  > didn't care for
                  > > his essays on history or his patronizing tone toward Native
                  > Americans.BTW, I
                  > > always had an issue with this tale of "master" Fubbi Quantz
                  > turning on Columbus
                  > > to the New World. Considering what a creep Columbus was,it's
                  > nothing to brag
                  > > about.
                  > >
                  > > Ever listen to Eck music from the Eck Songbook?I've heard better
                  > stuff in an
                  > > elevator.Gimme Ravi Shankar, Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis etc any day!
                • execkie
                  ... amazing grace and copyright law: http://www.legaljungleguide.com/resourc/musician/articles/musiccopyright.htm ... changing a ... it ... turned ... better
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 31 1:33 PM
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                    --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, al_radzik <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Are you saying they changed Amazing Grace to Amazing HU?
                    > When will the plagiarism stop?

                    amazing grace and copyright law:

                    http://www.legaljungleguide.com/resourc/musician/articles/musiccopyright.htm




                    > By the way, I did hear some Eck Songs.
                    >
                    > "The Twitch That Stole Christmas"
                    > "Which Way You Going, Fubbi"
                    > "The HUkey Pukey"
                    > "Inagadadasugmad"
                    >
                    > Alf
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, maya2846@y... wrote:
                    > > I agree -- Amazing HU is a perfect example of claiming and
                    changing a
                    > > beautiful piece of music with a wonderful story and 'bastardize'
                    it
                    > > to claim ownership. I could never understand the restrictions
                    > > on "Eck" music -- art, music, life is spiritual......
                    > >
                    > > This has been a very interesting journey. The 'path' had changed
                    > > over the years to seeking truth and being one's own master to
                    > > dependence and fear and power. Free -- Free at last --
                    > > well always Free -- just the realization.....
                    > >
                    > > Love * Laugh, Live Life in the Moment.
                    > >
                    > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Ganesh622@c... wrote:
                    > > > I really like my life without Eckankar.All I know is Klemp
                    turned
                    > > a path
                    > > > that seemed quite colorful(true or not) and made it so utterly
                    > > bland, that I
                    > > > thought at times I was at some boring Lutheran church service.I
                    > > didn't care for
                    > > > his essays on history or his patronizing tone toward Native
                    > > Americans.BTW, I
                    > > > always had an issue with this tale of "master" Fubbi Quantz
                    > > turning on Columbus
                    > > > to the New World. Considering what a creep Columbus was,it's
                    > > nothing to brag
                    > > > about.
                    > > >
                    > > > Ever listen to Eck music from the Eck Songbook?I've heard
                    better
                    > > stuff in an
                    > > > elevator.Gimme Ravi Shankar, Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis etc any
                    day!
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