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  • jdj83061
    Well, we broke up. The more we ve communicated since that decision, the more I realize how right it was, and that the relationship could never have been
    Message 1 of 5 , May 1, 2004
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      Well, we broke up. The more we've communicated since that decision,
      the more I realize how right it was, and that the relationship could
      never have been sustained.

      I'm still frustrated thinking of her. It's obvious now that she
      doesn't understand me at all--and she has such a limited capacity for
      truly understanding anything. Don't get me wrong, she's not at all
      stupid. The problem, I think, is that Eckankar creates such a limited
      paradigm for experiencing life, that anything that comes along that
      doesn't fit into that has no resonance with her.

      I think our relationship confused her. She was so happy when we first
      got together--but in the last month she basically stopped listening.
      It was like she was there but she wasn't. We would have what I
      thought was a meaningful conversation and two days later she would
      claim not to remember it. She would say one thing one day, and the
      opposite thing the next, with an equal amount of conviction. When I
      called her on it, she made some joke about how all women are
      contradictory. Remember, she's a therapist--someone who's supposed to
      take communication seriously. She said that she ocassionally had
      dissociative tendencies--and two days later decided that she didn't.

      As I said, she's not stupid, and not crazy. I'm convinced this stupid
      religion has hijacked her mind. She realized that the happiness she
      felt with me was somehow unorthodox in Eck terms, and she withdrew
      from me while insisting that she wasn't, that it was all my problem.

      I've accepted that it's over, and it's time to move on. There's
      nothing more we can do for each other. But I'm convinced that
      Eckankar is not harmless. Yes, we both have a host of other issues
      that contributed to this; the fact that I was forced to take of my
      brain-damaged mother when I was 11 means that I more tolerance than I
      should for unhealthy communication, and the fact that she's the child
      of upper-middle-class alcoholics means--well, you get the picture.
      Eck was her way out; music was mine. It's a good thing my cello can't
      quote Harold Klemp.

      Thanks again for the advice these last couple of months--the advice
      you all gave me was very helpful.

      I think it was Ram Dass that came up with the phrase "spiritual
      materialism." It's the disease now infecting the world--people
      insisting that their spiritual path is defined by the ownership and
      display of signifiers of that path. Those signifiers usually take the
      form of judgements against those not on the same path. That covers
      everything from my breakup to the war in Iraq. When will it end?
    • Paul Olson
      I m sorry it s over for you and I m happy it s over for you. Endings are always beginnings..... Leaving a Love affair is very similar to leaving
      Message 2 of 5 , May 1, 2004
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        I'm sorry it's over for you and I'm happy it's over for you. Endings are always beginnings.....

        Leaving a Love affair is very similar to leaving eckankar.....It leads to more freedom and deeper truth most of the time, but at first it seems like just a big hole in our lives.....

        The hole fills rapidly however, especially if humor is our friend. Also if we keep looking deeper into ourselves for what is really true.......A new hobby or interest is also helpful for filling the time and making a new social outlet or two.....

        Enough advise from me however....You seem to be doing just fine......

        Your diagnosis about eckankar being a very small box from which to view life is accurate and the reason many of us left that path.....Honesty and real spirituality, a true love for life, and the inner need to find THE truth will always lead us out of the box's of human mental creation, and into greater personal understanding and exploration.

        This is a good part of the reason that eckankar cannot long survive....If a love for truth brings one into eckankar, and most eckists would definitely agree with that, then that very same love of truth and honesty will bring us out of the illusion as well......Eckankar just can't deliver what it promises it's students.

        I am convinced that the members of eckankar, or at least the vast majority of them are sincere in their search......The masters and those who KNOW the lie and the illusion, yet persist in propagation of the lie, for reasons of ego, or another form of gain, are the CRIMINALS here...The rest are temporary victims and their love of truth will eventually show them the way out.....But unfortunately, it can take years and years for this to happen.

        I am certain that the discussions you mentioned previously, your giving her the Ford Johnson book, and your rational approach has planted some seeds for her....in this, you have done her a very large service....she probably doesn't realize this yet, and may not for several years, but those seeds of doubt can and do grow.....especially if laced with truth and love.

        Good Luck Friend, now, go out and find a way to have a wonderful day...and some fun.

        Sword
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: jdj83061
        To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 6:46 PM
        Subject: [eckankartruth] it's over


        Well, we broke up. The more we've communicated since that decision,
        the more I realize how right it was, and that the relationship could
        never have been sustained.

        I'm still frustrated thinking of her. It's obvious now that she
        doesn't understand me at all--and she has such a limited capacity for
        truly understanding anything. Don't get me wrong, she's not at all
        stupid. The problem, I think, is that Eckankar creates such a limited
        paradigm for experiencing life, that anything that comes along that
        doesn't fit into that has no resonance with her.

        I think our relationship confused her. She was so happy when we first
        got together--but in the last month she basically stopped listening.
        It was like she was there but she wasn't. We would have what I
        thought was a meaningful conversation and two days later she would
        claim not to remember it. She would say one thing one day, and the
        opposite thing the next, with an equal amount of conviction. When I
        called her on it, she made some joke about how all women are
        contradictory. Remember, she's a therapist--someone who's supposed to
        take communication seriously. She said that she ocassionally had
        dissociative tendencies--and two days later decided that she didn't.

        As I said, she's not stupid, and not crazy. I'm convinced this stupid
        religion has hijacked her mind. She realized that the happiness she
        felt with me was somehow unorthodox in Eck terms, and she withdrew
        from me while insisting that she wasn't, that it was all my problem.

        I've accepted that it's over, and it's time to move on. There's
        nothing more we can do for each other. But I'm convinced that
        Eckankar is not harmless. Yes, we both have a host of other issues
        that contributed to this; the fact that I was forced to take of my
        brain-damaged mother when I was 11 means that I more tolerance than I
        should for unhealthy communication, and the fact that she's the child
        of upper-middle-class alcoholics means--well, you get the picture.
        Eck was her way out; music was mine. It's a good thing my cello can't
        quote Harold Klemp.

        Thanks again for the advice these last couple of months--the advice
        you all gave me was very helpful.

        I think it was Ram Dass that came up with the phrase "spiritual
        materialism." It's the disease now infecting the world--people
        insisting that their spiritual path is defined by the ownership and
        display of signifiers of that path. Those signifiers usually take the
        form of judgements against those not on the same path. That covers
        everything from my breakup to the war in Iraq. When will it end?


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      • ~Spirit Dancer~
        Dear jdj, I am saddened to hear this didn t work out. Although you seem to be okay, I had hoped your friend would be receptive to hear the truth behind
        Message 3 of 5 , May 2, 2004
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          Dear jdj,
          I am saddened to hear this didn't work out. Although you seem to be okay, I had hoped your friend would be receptive to hear the truth behind Eckankar. But I also understand where she is coming from.
          I too had a goal, and wasn't going to let any man interfere.... ( unless he either was already an Eckist, or was going to become one! ) I passed up some very nice relationships, and friendships because I wasn't going to let anything get in my way of reaching God-Realization, and ending the cycle of birth-death-rebirth....

          I won't make this experience of yours, mine... Just know that many of us here, have been on both sides of the fence. My only thought about your friend is, I feel very sad for her, if she had some genuine feelings... having to stuff them because of her goals, and her Mahanta, she must feel very empty inside! That is how I felt most of the 30 years I spent in this teaching! Family/Eckist kept saying "If so and so doesn't become an Eckist then they will only keep you from your goals. The Mahanta will bring the right person into your life!"
          I can't predict what she will do with some of the truth you were able to give her, but if there was any hint of doubt that was placed in her heart, it will only be a matter of time before she starts to wake up. Eckankar can not keep hiding from the truth forever! The wind of change is blowing! If she is intelligent, and an honest women, she will not be able to ignore what is to come.....

          Wishing you the best,
          Elizabeth

          jdj83061 <jdj83061@...> wrote:
          Well, we broke up. The more we've communicated since that decision,
          the more I realize how right it was, and that the relationship could
          never have been sustained.

          I'm still frustrated thinking of her. It's obvious now that she
          doesn't understand me at all--and she has such a limited capacity for
          truly understanding anything.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ex_eckist
          I agree with you, Paul, and am sorry it s over for him, yet glad it s over. When I was in eckankar I thought I was all seeing and all knowing, with a 360
          Message 4 of 5 , May 2, 2004
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            I agree with you, Paul, and am sorry it's over for him, yet glad it's
            over. When I was in eckankar I thought I was all seeing and all
            knowing, with a 360 degree awareness. I didn't realize until after I
            left the org how limited my vision really was. I'm a year out, now,
            and my vision has broadened beyond what I could ever have imagined!

            Jade

            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <Paul@V...> wrote:
            > I'm sorry it's over for you and I'm happy it's over for you.
            Endings are always beginnings.....
            >
            > Leaving a Love affair is very similar to leaving eckankar.....It
            leads to more freedom and deeper truth most of the time, but at first
            it seems like just a big hole in our lives.....

            <snip, snip, snip, said the lady bug>
          • Paul Olson
            Jade, I doubt that anyone who has left has experienced less! Most of us feel like we have been completely reborn (even though I hate to use that term
            Message 5 of 5 , May 3, 2004
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              Jade,

              I doubt that anyone who has left has experienced less! Most of us feel like we have been completely reborn (even though I hate to use that term here).....

              What's kinda funny is that when we are just out and hear someone say this, some of us think its just a phrase or some ego bull or whatever.......But for me it sure wasn't! It was a new birth.

              Sword
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: ex_eckist
              To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 10:14 AM
              Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: it's over


              I agree with you, Paul, and am sorry it's over for him, yet glad it's
              over. When I was in eckankar I thought I was all seeing and all
              knowing, with a 360 degree awareness. I didn't realize until after I
              left the org how limited my vision really was. I'm a year out, now,
              and my vision has broadened beyond what I could ever have imagined!

              Jade

              --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <Paul@V...> wrote:
              > I'm sorry it's over for you and I'm happy it's over for you.
              Endings are always beginnings.....
              >
              > Leaving a Love affair is very similar to leaving eckankar.....It
              leads to more freedom and deeper truth most of the time, but at first
              it seems like just a big hole in our lives.....

              <snip, snip, snip, said the lady bug>





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              eckankartruth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



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