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Re: [eckankartruth] Re: questions

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  • Paul Olson
    I d put eckankar into the snake oil category. It s teachings slowly demand a surrender to that living eck master, the mahanta...this is a psychic surrender and
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 23, 2004
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      I'd put eckankar into the snake oil category. It's teachings slowly demand a surrender to that living eck master, the mahanta...this is a psychic surrender and actually the "surrender" is a control tactic to keep the membership in line, as are the disciplines demanded of members by eckankar.

      Daily practice of the spiritual exercises, surrender, the fasting, etc, are requested of members.

      Many times when a member becomes discontent, the failure to perform any one of these, or other disciplines, is used as the reason that the member has failed to have the experiences they desire, or a failure to attain the promised results.

      In fact, the problem is with the teaching. The masters are false and the teachings are borrowed, diluted, and twisted. Very few, if any, members attain the results promised in the books and discourses. The organization and its leadership always blame the member for any shortcoming as opposed to the teaching itself. They subtly teach that the teaching is perfect, so any failure to attain must be a shortcoming on the members part.

      Of course, those of us who have really seen what eckankar is about, realize that true experience comes from within and not from any group, teaching, or master. The source of life is within us and not in a book.

      She does sound like she is pretty well grounded here on earth. A lot of eckists are closet escapists and really just want a way our of their own lives or circumstances, yet they don't realize that they themselves, are the true builder of their lives.

      I agree with Maya's post in that our belief systems are just different viewpoints and really aren't worth fighting about. But in my own case, I would prefer to be with someone who I can really talk with as opposed to having to hide my feelings about beliefs for the sake of harmony. I'd also like someone who has similar goals in life and similar interests to pursue. Also, because I am not a rich man, money would be a factor in that there is only so much, and I would hate to see a good amount of it going to Minneapolis when we could be using it for our own goals instead.

      The lady that you are describing doesn't seem likely to ever buy poison kool aid! (I love that analogy by the way!)

      Clear skies to both of you!

      Sword


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: jdj83061
      To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:55 PM
      Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: questions


      Thanks Sword. I will look for that Ford Johnson book.

      She does spend a lot of time on the road as a seminar speaker, and
      goes to some eck function at least once a week. (So far this hasn't
      been too much of a problem, though, as I am also very busy in my
      teaching and performing career.) She's been married and divorced
      twice to eckists. Interestingly, she herself calls Eckankar a cult
      (in a kind of ironic way, probably as a way to pre-empt my judgment);
      to her, "religion" is the more damning term. And it is quite clear
      that using my money for her trips is not an option. However, she also
      has a real, non-eckist career as a social worker, artistic pursuits,
      a relationship with her family and a variety of eck and non-eck
      friends, so I think she may be in the "well-adjusted" category.

      I guess my basic question, really, is whether eckankar is snake oil
      or poison Kool-Aid. Snake oil I can handle; everyone's got some lie
      they believe to help them through the dark times, and as long as
      she's not putting all of her social, creative, and emotional eggs in
      the Eck basket, I think we may be okay. However, if anyone thinks
      there's a possibility of real danger (on either a physical or psychic
      level), and that we're headed down a dark path, please respond.



      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <Paul@V...> wrote:
      > Hi JDj,
      >
      > You post is thoughtful and the questions very valid. I was an
      eckist for 28 years and heard similar questions.
      >
      > First of all, I think you should buy her a copy of Ford Johnson's
      Book! If she reads it, and doesn't dump you because of it, she is
      probably fairly well adjusted. You will also have exposed her to a
      good dose of truth about eckankar which will probably eventually set
      in for her and lead her out of the group.
      >
      > During my time in eckankar, I knew many couples where one was an
      eckist and the other was not. I also saw a lot of these couples
      break up because the eckist later decided that they could only be
      happy with someone who shared the path.
      >
      > I also saw couples where the breakup was because the non-eckist
      thought the path was a crook and just couldn't put up with all the
      eckankar dogma...and expenses, such as travel to seminars, endless
      books and discourses etc...There was also a LOT of bed hopping at the
      seminars.
      >
      > But some couples made it quite well for many years too. It is a
      matter of communication. You guys really really need to talk this
      out and really expose your feelings about each others beliefs to each
      other for understanding.
      >
      > I seriously doubt that you'd ever have to deal with a Kool Aid
      incident with eckankar. Eckankars leadership in Minnesota doesn't do
      stuff like that....They are just more into taking the members
      donations, getting the members to buy this book, or go to that
      seminar, donate to this fund or that fund etc.... Nowadays,
      personally, I would NOT want to be the one to finance another eckists
      search for God! It's not a huge sum of money, but to me, it would be
      money completely wasted that I could have spent doing fun stuff in
      the relationship.
      >
      > If my partner was an eckist, I would probably get upset if they
      donated a 3 or 4 day weekend to going across the country to a
      seminar, rather than spending the time and money for a vacation with
      me.
      >
      > You should also discuss your free time. Eckankar has meetings on
      nights and weekends. Would eckankar take precious time away from
      your relationship? Some eckists never go to meetings and have
      absolutely no interest in the meetings and seminars. Others are
      organizational junkies and travel all over in quest of recognition as
      a "high initiate" or a seminar speaker etc.
      >
      > You should also test her actual level of tolerance with other
      pathways, especially if you are on one yourself. A Lot of
      that "tolerance" is just word play. Eckists are constantly trying
      to get new members to join their group. They pretend tolerance just
      to slowly bring someone into eckankar. A good test of this would be
      to find out how she feels about "cults"....Eckists absolutely hate
      being labeled as a cult, even though they are a cult.
      >
      > Eckankar has an organizational inferiority complex and eckists
      desperately want to be classed with other "legitimate" religions, if
      such a thing even exists.
      >
      > Relationships are real. Eckankar is an illusion. The problem is
      that eckankar can definitely get in the way of a relationship built
      upon truth. Talk it out. Let her know how you feel ad find out how
      deeply she is involved. Try the Ford Johnson book. Good luck with
      your relationship
      >
      > Sword




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    • Paul Olson
      PS. Ford Johnson s book is titled Confessions of a God Seeker and is available at Amazon.com The first 1/2 of the book is an expose; of eckankar. All the
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 23, 2004
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        PS. Ford Johnson's book is titled "Confessions of a God Seeker" and is available at Amazon.com

        The first 1/2 of the book is an expose; of eckankar. All the plagiarisms, a ton of damning information about the organization, Harold Klemp, the foibles of the eck masters, etc.....It's a really interesting read. The 2nd half is mostly his personal philosophy and I personally didn't buy into it and found it a bit of a ponderous read.

        Eckists however, who haven't really delved into eckankars shortcomings, will find the book frightening and challenging. Mr.. Johnson was a personal friend of Harold Klemp, was a 7th or 8th initiate in eckankar, (very high status), was an international seminar speaker and was a household name in eckankar. His journey lead him away from eckankar in a very honest and truthful way, discovering the pitfalls of eckankar and ev entually leading onto his own path.

        I found the book to be interesting in that it took me about 10 years to discover all the information that Johnson has put into a single, very well researched volume. He is great about citing his sources.

        Enjoy

        Sword
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: jdj83061
        To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:55 PM
        Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: questions


        Thanks Sword. I will look for that Ford Johnson book.

        She does spend a lot of time on the road as a seminar speaker, and
        goes to some eck function at least once a week. (So far this hasn't
        been too much of a problem, though, as I am also very busy in my
        teaching and performing career.) She's been married and divorced
        twice to eckists. Interestingly, she herself calls Eckankar a cult
        (in a kind of ironic way, probably as a way to pre-empt my judgment);
        to her, "religion" is the more damning term. And it is quite clear
        that using my money for her trips is not an option. However, she also
        has a real, non-eckist career as a social worker, artistic pursuits,
        a relationship with her family and a variety of eck and non-eck
        friends, so I think she may be in the "well-adjusted" category.

        I guess my basic question, really, is whether eckankar is snake oil
        or poison Kool-Aid. Snake oil I can handle; everyone's got some lie
        they believe to help them through the dark times, and as long as
        she's not putting all of her social, creative, and emotional eggs in
        the Eck basket, I think we may be okay. However, if anyone thinks
        there's a possibility of real danger (on either a physical or psychic
        level), and that we're headed down a dark path, please respond.



        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <Paul@V...> wrote:
        > Hi JDj,
        >
        > You post is thoughtful and the questions very valid. I was an
        eckist for 28 years and heard similar questions.
        >
        > First of all, I think you should buy her a copy of Ford Johnson's
        Book! If she reads it, and doesn't dump you because of it, she is
        probably fairly well adjusted. You will also have exposed her to a
        good dose of truth about eckankar which will probably eventually set
        in for her and lead her out of the group.
        >
        > During my time in eckankar, I knew many couples where one was an
        eckist and the other was not. I also saw a lot of these couples
        break up because the eckist later decided that they could only be
        happy with someone who shared the path.
        >
        > I also saw couples where the breakup was because the non-eckist
        thought the path was a crook and just couldn't put up with all the
        eckankar dogma...and expenses, such as travel to seminars, endless
        books and discourses etc...There was also a LOT of bed hopping at the
        seminars.
        >
        > But some couples made it quite well for many years too. It is a
        matter of communication. You guys really really need to talk this
        out and really expose your feelings about each others beliefs to each
        other for understanding.
        >
        > I seriously doubt that you'd ever have to deal with a Kool Aid
        incident with eckankar. Eckankars leadership in Minnesota doesn't do
        stuff like that....They are just more into taking the members
        donations, getting the members to buy this book, or go to that
        seminar, donate to this fund or that fund etc.... Nowadays,
        personally, I would NOT want to be the one to finance another eckists
        search for God! It's not a huge sum of money, but to me, it would be
        money completely wasted that I could have spent doing fun stuff in
        the relationship.
        >
        > If my partner was an eckist, I would probably get upset if they
        donated a 3 or 4 day weekend to going across the country to a
        seminar, rather than spending the time and money for a vacation with
        me.
        >
        > You should also discuss your free time. Eckankar has meetings on
        nights and weekends. Would eckankar take precious time away from
        your relationship? Some eckists never go to meetings and have
        absolutely no interest in the meetings and seminars. Others are
        organizational junkies and travel all over in quest of recognition as
        a "high initiate" or a seminar speaker etc.
        >
        > You should also test her actual level of tolerance with other
        pathways, especially if you are on one yourself. A Lot of
        that "tolerance" is just word play. Eckists are constantly trying
        to get new members to join their group. They pretend tolerance just
        to slowly bring someone into eckankar. A good test of this would be
        to find out how she feels about "cults"....Eckists absolutely hate
        being labeled as a cult, even though they are a cult.
        >
        > Eckankar has an organizational inferiority complex and eckists
        desperately want to be classed with other "legitimate" religions, if
        such a thing even exists.
        >
        > Relationships are real. Eckankar is an illusion. The problem is
        that eckankar can definitely get in the way of a relationship built
        upon truth. Talk it out. Let her know how you feel ad find out how
        deeply she is involved. Try the Ford Johnson book. Good luck with
        your relationship
        >
        > Sword




        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Yahoo! Groups Links

        a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/

        b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        eckankartruth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ~Spirit Dancer~
        You can down load the book at his High Consciousness Society web site. (faster than waiting for it to ship) I hear he is also going to separate the first
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 23, 2004
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          You can down load the book at his High Consciousness Society web site. (faster than waiting for it to ship) I hear he is also going to separate the first half of his book on the Eck deceptions.... from his current work.

          Paul Olson <Paul@...> wrote:PS. Ford Johnson's book is titled "Confessions of a God Seeker" and is available at Amazon.com

          The first 1/2 of the book is an expose; of eckankar.

          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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