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  • fishnik2003
    #1 - colleen says that she believes that the eck teachings cause the self to be split and repressed. anyone care to expand on that? #2 - jd shared an unusual
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 8, 2004
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      #1 - colleen says that she believes that the eck teachings cause the
      self to be split and repressed. anyone care to expand on that?

      #2 - jd shared an unusual experience he had with Darwin Gross (in a
      hyper awake state). i had similar experiences. how could they
      happen??

      fishnik
    • jdj83061
      In January I started dating a woman I met online--a first for me; I m not a cyber-junkie. In any case, we hit it off, and many aspects of the relationship are
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 22, 2004
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        In January I started dating a woman I met online--a first for me; I'm
        not a cyber-junkie. In any case, we hit it off, and many aspects of
        the relationship are wonderful; we're very comfortable with each
        other, and have a lot of fun together. I noticed the pictures of a
        bespectacled man on the wall, and assumed it was her father. She
        eventually explained that it was Harold Klemp, and that she's been
        involved in Eckankar for twenty years (we're both in the neighborhood
        of 40), and that she leads groups and conducts services for them. I
        had vaguely heard of Eckankar--remembered seeing brochures for it at
        places like the Open Center--but I didn't really know anything about
        it. I used to live in the Bay Area, and have a natural aversion to
        cults; the mother of a friend of mine in high school drank the
        Kool-Aid in Jonestown, I knew several people taken in by the Moonies,
        and my sister was involved with synanon and paid for me to do the est
        training (which I did, and I don't regret it, but I didn't take any of
        the follow-up seminars and wouldn't recommend it to anyone.) I also
        know people who have been screwed over by the Church, and by Orthodox
        Judaism, and I admit I have a problem with organized religion in
        general (though I can get evangelical about certain pieces of music.)
        The point of all this is, I'm not sure what to do about this
        relationship. The pictures of Harold bother me, but crucifixes bother
        me too. I've read about the plagarism and the internal politics and
        power-plays among the Eck leaders; that's certainly cause for concern,
        but those are things common to many religions and other organizations,
        and I'm not sure how it affects the members. I know I don't want to
        join Eckankar, and I would not want to raise a child in it or live in
        a home that displays those pictures, so the relationship may be
        doomed, but what I want to know is: how harmful is it really? She
        insists that they recognize the validity of other faiths and spiritual
        paths, and that members can leave with impunity. Is she flat-out
        wrong? Is she brainwashed? Is she brainwashing me? From here it seems
        more benign than say, Scientology; it doesn't seem any more
        manipulative than the old est training, which was certainly a sleazy,
        money-grubbing, mind-twisting waste of time, but not incompatible with
        living a normal life, having normal relationships, and holding one's
        own opinions; and there was no hint of poisoned Kool-Aid. I've
        mentioned some of my concerns to her, and she made it clear that she's
        very committed to the Eckist life, though she also made it clear that
        she wants a future with me and would not insist on my joining. I know
        I can't change her; it seems my only options are to put up with it or
        leave. What should I do? Advice? Help?
      • Paul Olson
        Hi JDj, You post is thoughtful and the questions very valid. I was an eckist for 28 years and heard similar questions. First of all, I think you should buy
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 22, 2004
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          Hi JDj,

          You post is thoughtful and the questions very valid. I was an eckist for 28 years and heard similar questions.

          First of all, I think you should buy her a copy of Ford Johnson's Book! If she reads it, and doesn't dump you because of it, she is probably fairly well adjusted. You will also have exposed her to a good dose of truth about eckankar which will probably eventually set in for her and lead her out of the group.

          During my time in eckankar, I knew many couples where one was an eckist and the other was not. I also saw a lot of these couples break up because the eckist later decided that they could only be happy with someone who shared the path.

          I also saw couples where the breakup was because the non-eckist thought the path was a crook and just couldn't put up with all the eckankar dogma...and expenses, such as travel to seminars, endless books and discourses etc...There was also a LOT of bed hopping at the seminars.

          But some couples made it quite well for many years too. It is a matter of communication. You guys really really need to talk this out and really expose your feelings about each others beliefs to each other for understanding.

          I seriously doubt that you'd ever have to deal with a Kool Aid incident with eckankar. Eckankars leadership in Minnesota doesn't do stuff like that....They are just more into taking the members donations, getting the members to buy this book, or go to that seminar, donate to this fund or that fund etc.... Nowadays, personally, I would NOT want to be the one to finance another eckists search for God! It's not a huge sum of money, but to me, it would be money completely wasted that I could have spent doing fun stuff in the relationship.

          If my partner was an eckist, I would probably get upset if they donated a 3 or 4 day weekend to going across the country to a seminar, rather than spending the time and money for a vacation with me.

          You should also discuss your free time. Eckankar has meetings on nights and weekends. Would eckankar take precious time away from your relationship? Some eckists never go to meetings and have absolutely no interest in the meetings and seminars. Others are organizational junkies and travel all over in quest of recognition as a "high initiate" or a seminar speaker etc.

          You should also test her actual level of tolerance with other pathways, especially if you are on one yourself. A Lot of that "tolerance" is just word play. Eckists are constantly trying to get new members to join their group. They pretend tolerance just to slowly bring someone into eckankar. A good test of this would be to find out how she feels about "cults"....Eckists absolutely hate being labeled as a cult, even though they are a cult.

          Eckankar has an organizational inferiority complex and eckists desperately want to be classed with other "legitimate" religions, if such a thing even exists.

          Relationships are real. Eckankar is an illusion. The problem is that eckankar can definitely get in the way of a relationship built upon truth. Talk it out. Let her know how you feel ad find out how deeply she is involved. Try the Ford Johnson book. Good luck with your relationship

          Sword


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: jdj83061
          To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:16 AM
          Subject: [eckankartruth] questions


          In January I started dating a woman I met online--a first for me; I'm
          not a cyber-junkie. In any case, we hit it off, and many aspects of
          the relationship are wonderful; we're very comfortable with each
          other, and have a lot of fun together. I noticed the pictures of a
          bespectacled man on the wall, and assumed it was her father. She
          eventually explained that it was Harold Klemp, and that she's been
          involved in Eckankar for twenty years (we're both in the neighborhood
          of 40), and that she leads groups and conducts services for them. I
          had vaguely heard of Eckankar--remembered seeing brochures for it at
          places like the Open Center--but I didn't really know anything about
          it. I used to live in the Bay Area, and have a natural aversion to
          cults; the mother of a friend of mine in high school drank the
          Kool-Aid in Jonestown, I knew several people taken in by the Moonies,
          and my sister was involved with synanon and paid for me to do the est
          training (which I did, and I don't regret it, but I didn't take any of
          the follow-up seminars and wouldn't recommend it to anyone.) I also
          know people who have been screwed over by the Church, and by Orthodox
          Judaism, and I admit I have a problem with organized religion in
          general (though I can get evangelical about certain pieces of music.)
          The point of all this is, I'm not sure what to do about this
          relationship. The pictures of Harold bother me, but crucifixes bother
          me too. I've read about the plagarism and the internal politics and
          power-plays among the Eck leaders; that's certainly cause for concern,
          but those are things common to many religions and other organizations,
          and I'm not sure how it affects the members. I know I don't want to
          join Eckankar, and I would not want to raise a child in it or live in
          a home that displays those pictures, so the relationship may be
          doomed, but what I want to know is: how harmful is it really? She
          insists that they recognize the validity of other faiths and spiritual
          paths, and that members can leave with impunity. Is she flat-out
          wrong? Is she brainwashed? Is she brainwashing me? From here it seems
          more benign than say, Scientology; it doesn't seem any more
          manipulative than the old est training, which was certainly a sleazy,
          money-grubbing, mind-twisting waste of time, but not incompatible with
          living a normal life, having normal relationships, and holding one's
          own opinions; and there was no hint of poisoned Kool-Aid. I've
          mentioned some of my concerns to her, and she made it clear that she's
          very committed to the Eckist life, though she also made it clear that
          she wants a future with me and would not insist on my joining. I know
          I can't change her; it seems my only options are to put up with it or
          leave. What should I do? Advice? Help?


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        • jdj83061
          Thanks Sword. I will look for that Ford Johnson book. She does spend a lot of time on the road as a seminar speaker, and goes to some eck function at least
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 22, 2004
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            Thanks Sword. I will look for that Ford Johnson book.

            She does spend a lot of time on the road as a seminar speaker, and
            goes to some eck function at least once a week. (So far this hasn't
            been too much of a problem, though, as I am also very busy in my
            teaching and performing career.) She's been married and divorced
            twice to eckists. Interestingly, she herself calls Eckankar a cult
            (in a kind of ironic way, probably as a way to pre-empt my judgment);
            to her, "religion" is the more damning term. And it is quite clear
            that using my money for her trips is not an option. However, she also
            has a real, non-eckist career as a social worker, artistic pursuits,
            a relationship with her family and a variety of eck and non-eck
            friends, so I think she may be in the "well-adjusted" category.

            I guess my basic question, really, is whether eckankar is snake oil
            or poison Kool-Aid. Snake oil I can handle; everyone's got some lie
            they believe to help them through the dark times, and as long as
            she's not putting all of her social, creative, and emotional eggs in
            the Eck basket, I think we may be okay. However, if anyone thinks
            there's a possibility of real danger (on either a physical or psychic
            level), and that we're headed down a dark path, please respond.



            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <Paul@V...> wrote:
            > Hi JDj,
            >
            > You post is thoughtful and the questions very valid. I was an
            eckist for 28 years and heard similar questions.
            >
            > First of all, I think you should buy her a copy of Ford Johnson's
            Book! If she reads it, and doesn't dump you because of it, she is
            probably fairly well adjusted. You will also have exposed her to a
            good dose of truth about eckankar which will probably eventually set
            in for her and lead her out of the group.
            >
            > During my time in eckankar, I knew many couples where one was an
            eckist and the other was not. I also saw a lot of these couples
            break up because the eckist later decided that they could only be
            happy with someone who shared the path.
            >
            > I also saw couples where the breakup was because the non-eckist
            thought the path was a crook and just couldn't put up with all the
            eckankar dogma...and expenses, such as travel to seminars, endless
            books and discourses etc...There was also a LOT of bed hopping at the
            seminars.
            >
            > But some couples made it quite well for many years too. It is a
            matter of communication. You guys really really need to talk this
            out and really expose your feelings about each others beliefs to each
            other for understanding.
            >
            > I seriously doubt that you'd ever have to deal with a Kool Aid
            incident with eckankar. Eckankars leadership in Minnesota doesn't do
            stuff like that....They are just more into taking the members
            donations, getting the members to buy this book, or go to that
            seminar, donate to this fund or that fund etc.... Nowadays,
            personally, I would NOT want to be the one to finance another eckists
            search for God! It's not a huge sum of money, but to me, it would be
            money completely wasted that I could have spent doing fun stuff in
            the relationship.
            >
            > If my partner was an eckist, I would probably get upset if they
            donated a 3 or 4 day weekend to going across the country to a
            seminar, rather than spending the time and money for a vacation with
            me.
            >
            > You should also discuss your free time. Eckankar has meetings on
            nights and weekends. Would eckankar take precious time away from
            your relationship? Some eckists never go to meetings and have
            absolutely no interest in the meetings and seminars. Others are
            organizational junkies and travel all over in quest of recognition as
            a "high initiate" or a seminar speaker etc.
            >
            > You should also test her actual level of tolerance with other
            pathways, especially if you are on one yourself. A Lot of
            that "tolerance" is just word play. Eckists are constantly trying
            to get new members to join their group. They pretend tolerance just
            to slowly bring someone into eckankar. A good test of this would be
            to find out how she feels about "cults"....Eckists absolutely hate
            being labeled as a cult, even though they are a cult.
            >
            > Eckankar has an organizational inferiority complex and eckists
            desperately want to be classed with other "legitimate" religions, if
            such a thing even exists.
            >
            > Relationships are real. Eckankar is an illusion. The problem is
            that eckankar can definitely get in the way of a relationship built
            upon truth. Talk it out. Let her know how you feel ad find out how
            deeply she is involved. Try the Ford Johnson book. Good luck with
            your relationship
            >
            > Sword
          • ~Spirit Dancer~
            jdj83061 wrote: She insists that they recognize the validity of other faiths and spiritual paths, and that members can leave with
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 23, 2004
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              jdj83061 <jdj83061@...> wrote:
              She
              insists that they recognize the validity of other faiths and spiritual
              paths, and that members can leave with impunity. Is she flat-out
              wrong? Is she brainwashed? Is she brainwashing me?

              *** YES!!!!!

              it doesn't seem any more
              manipulative than the old est training, which was certainly a sleazy,
              money-grubbing, mind-twisting waste of time,

              *** A Rose is a Rose or should I say a CULT is a CULT no matter what name you call it?

              I know
              I can't change her; it seems my only options are to put up with it or
              leave. What should I do? Advice? Help?

              *** Have you checked out all of Sharon's links within this group, looked over some of the postings within this site? You might get what you are looking for, with just a little more research right within this group's archives :).

              Elizabeth

              Ex member of 30 years, large Spiritual Eck Resume that means absolutely Nothing to the next guy... 6th, Initiator, ESA, been disowned by my parents and a couple siblings for leaving the path, and I am called one of the many that is causing Harold's health problems; he is another Jesus here to take on our sins (Karma) ;-) Waiting for the day they nail him!





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            • Paul Olson
              I d put eckankar into the snake oil category. It s teachings slowly demand a surrender to that living eck master, the mahanta...this is a psychic surrender and
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 23, 2004
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                I'd put eckankar into the snake oil category. It's teachings slowly demand a surrender to that living eck master, the mahanta...this is a psychic surrender and actually the "surrender" is a control tactic to keep the membership in line, as are the disciplines demanded of members by eckankar.

                Daily practice of the spiritual exercises, surrender, the fasting, etc, are requested of members.

                Many times when a member becomes discontent, the failure to perform any one of these, or other disciplines, is used as the reason that the member has failed to have the experiences they desire, or a failure to attain the promised results.

                In fact, the problem is with the teaching. The masters are false and the teachings are borrowed, diluted, and twisted. Very few, if any, members attain the results promised in the books and discourses. The organization and its leadership always blame the member for any shortcoming as opposed to the teaching itself. They subtly teach that the teaching is perfect, so any failure to attain must be a shortcoming on the members part.

                Of course, those of us who have really seen what eckankar is about, realize that true experience comes from within and not from any group, teaching, or master. The source of life is within us and not in a book.

                She does sound like she is pretty well grounded here on earth. A lot of eckists are closet escapists and really just want a way our of their own lives or circumstances, yet they don't realize that they themselves, are the true builder of their lives.

                I agree with Maya's post in that our belief systems are just different viewpoints and really aren't worth fighting about. But in my own case, I would prefer to be with someone who I can really talk with as opposed to having to hide my feelings about beliefs for the sake of harmony. I'd also like someone who has similar goals in life and similar interests to pursue. Also, because I am not a rich man, money would be a factor in that there is only so much, and I would hate to see a good amount of it going to Minneapolis when we could be using it for our own goals instead.

                The lady that you are describing doesn't seem likely to ever buy poison kool aid! (I love that analogy by the way!)

                Clear skies to both of you!

                Sword


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: jdj83061
                To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:55 PM
                Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: questions


                Thanks Sword. I will look for that Ford Johnson book.

                She does spend a lot of time on the road as a seminar speaker, and
                goes to some eck function at least once a week. (So far this hasn't
                been too much of a problem, though, as I am also very busy in my
                teaching and performing career.) She's been married and divorced
                twice to eckists. Interestingly, she herself calls Eckankar a cult
                (in a kind of ironic way, probably as a way to pre-empt my judgment);
                to her, "religion" is the more damning term. And it is quite clear
                that using my money for her trips is not an option. However, she also
                has a real, non-eckist career as a social worker, artistic pursuits,
                a relationship with her family and a variety of eck and non-eck
                friends, so I think she may be in the "well-adjusted" category.

                I guess my basic question, really, is whether eckankar is snake oil
                or poison Kool-Aid. Snake oil I can handle; everyone's got some lie
                they believe to help them through the dark times, and as long as
                she's not putting all of her social, creative, and emotional eggs in
                the Eck basket, I think we may be okay. However, if anyone thinks
                there's a possibility of real danger (on either a physical or psychic
                level), and that we're headed down a dark path, please respond.



                --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <Paul@V...> wrote:
                > Hi JDj,
                >
                > You post is thoughtful and the questions very valid. I was an
                eckist for 28 years and heard similar questions.
                >
                > First of all, I think you should buy her a copy of Ford Johnson's
                Book! If she reads it, and doesn't dump you because of it, she is
                probably fairly well adjusted. You will also have exposed her to a
                good dose of truth about eckankar which will probably eventually set
                in for her and lead her out of the group.
                >
                > During my time in eckankar, I knew many couples where one was an
                eckist and the other was not. I also saw a lot of these couples
                break up because the eckist later decided that they could only be
                happy with someone who shared the path.
                >
                > I also saw couples where the breakup was because the non-eckist
                thought the path was a crook and just couldn't put up with all the
                eckankar dogma...and expenses, such as travel to seminars, endless
                books and discourses etc...There was also a LOT of bed hopping at the
                seminars.
                >
                > But some couples made it quite well for many years too. It is a
                matter of communication. You guys really really need to talk this
                out and really expose your feelings about each others beliefs to each
                other for understanding.
                >
                > I seriously doubt that you'd ever have to deal with a Kool Aid
                incident with eckankar. Eckankars leadership in Minnesota doesn't do
                stuff like that....They are just more into taking the members
                donations, getting the members to buy this book, or go to that
                seminar, donate to this fund or that fund etc.... Nowadays,
                personally, I would NOT want to be the one to finance another eckists
                search for God! It's not a huge sum of money, but to me, it would be
                money completely wasted that I could have spent doing fun stuff in
                the relationship.
                >
                > If my partner was an eckist, I would probably get upset if they
                donated a 3 or 4 day weekend to going across the country to a
                seminar, rather than spending the time and money for a vacation with
                me.
                >
                > You should also discuss your free time. Eckankar has meetings on
                nights and weekends. Would eckankar take precious time away from
                your relationship? Some eckists never go to meetings and have
                absolutely no interest in the meetings and seminars. Others are
                organizational junkies and travel all over in quest of recognition as
                a "high initiate" or a seminar speaker etc.
                >
                > You should also test her actual level of tolerance with other
                pathways, especially if you are on one yourself. A Lot of
                that "tolerance" is just word play. Eckists are constantly trying
                to get new members to join their group. They pretend tolerance just
                to slowly bring someone into eckankar. A good test of this would be
                to find out how she feels about "cults"....Eckists absolutely hate
                being labeled as a cult, even though they are a cult.
                >
                > Eckankar has an organizational inferiority complex and eckists
                desperately want to be classed with other "legitimate" religions, if
                such a thing even exists.
                >
                > Relationships are real. Eckankar is an illusion. The problem is
                that eckankar can definitely get in the way of a relationship built
                upon truth. Talk it out. Let her know how you feel ad find out how
                deeply she is involved. Try the Ford Johnson book. Good luck with
                your relationship
                >
                > Sword




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              • Paul Olson
                PS. Ford Johnson s book is titled Confessions of a God Seeker and is available at Amazon.com The first 1/2 of the book is an expose; of eckankar. All the
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 23, 2004
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                  PS. Ford Johnson's book is titled "Confessions of a God Seeker" and is available at Amazon.com

                  The first 1/2 of the book is an expose; of eckankar. All the plagiarisms, a ton of damning information about the organization, Harold Klemp, the foibles of the eck masters, etc.....It's a really interesting read. The 2nd half is mostly his personal philosophy and I personally didn't buy into it and found it a bit of a ponderous read.

                  Eckists however, who haven't really delved into eckankars shortcomings, will find the book frightening and challenging. Mr.. Johnson was a personal friend of Harold Klemp, was a 7th or 8th initiate in eckankar, (very high status), was an international seminar speaker and was a household name in eckankar. His journey lead him away from eckankar in a very honest and truthful way, discovering the pitfalls of eckankar and ev entually leading onto his own path.

                  I found the book to be interesting in that it took me about 10 years to discover all the information that Johnson has put into a single, very well researched volume. He is great about citing his sources.

                  Enjoy

                  Sword
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: jdj83061
                  To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:55 PM
                  Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: questions


                  Thanks Sword. I will look for that Ford Johnson book.

                  She does spend a lot of time on the road as a seminar speaker, and
                  goes to some eck function at least once a week. (So far this hasn't
                  been too much of a problem, though, as I am also very busy in my
                  teaching and performing career.) She's been married and divorced
                  twice to eckists. Interestingly, she herself calls Eckankar a cult
                  (in a kind of ironic way, probably as a way to pre-empt my judgment);
                  to her, "religion" is the more damning term. And it is quite clear
                  that using my money for her trips is not an option. However, she also
                  has a real, non-eckist career as a social worker, artistic pursuits,
                  a relationship with her family and a variety of eck and non-eck
                  friends, so I think she may be in the "well-adjusted" category.

                  I guess my basic question, really, is whether eckankar is snake oil
                  or poison Kool-Aid. Snake oil I can handle; everyone's got some lie
                  they believe to help them through the dark times, and as long as
                  she's not putting all of her social, creative, and emotional eggs in
                  the Eck basket, I think we may be okay. However, if anyone thinks
                  there's a possibility of real danger (on either a physical or psychic
                  level), and that we're headed down a dark path, please respond.



                  --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <Paul@V...> wrote:
                  > Hi JDj,
                  >
                  > You post is thoughtful and the questions very valid. I was an
                  eckist for 28 years and heard similar questions.
                  >
                  > First of all, I think you should buy her a copy of Ford Johnson's
                  Book! If she reads it, and doesn't dump you because of it, she is
                  probably fairly well adjusted. You will also have exposed her to a
                  good dose of truth about eckankar which will probably eventually set
                  in for her and lead her out of the group.
                  >
                  > During my time in eckankar, I knew many couples where one was an
                  eckist and the other was not. I also saw a lot of these couples
                  break up because the eckist later decided that they could only be
                  happy with someone who shared the path.
                  >
                  > I also saw couples where the breakup was because the non-eckist
                  thought the path was a crook and just couldn't put up with all the
                  eckankar dogma...and expenses, such as travel to seminars, endless
                  books and discourses etc...There was also a LOT of bed hopping at the
                  seminars.
                  >
                  > But some couples made it quite well for many years too. It is a
                  matter of communication. You guys really really need to talk this
                  out and really expose your feelings about each others beliefs to each
                  other for understanding.
                  >
                  > I seriously doubt that you'd ever have to deal with a Kool Aid
                  incident with eckankar. Eckankars leadership in Minnesota doesn't do
                  stuff like that....They are just more into taking the members
                  donations, getting the members to buy this book, or go to that
                  seminar, donate to this fund or that fund etc.... Nowadays,
                  personally, I would NOT want to be the one to finance another eckists
                  search for God! It's not a huge sum of money, but to me, it would be
                  money completely wasted that I could have spent doing fun stuff in
                  the relationship.
                  >
                  > If my partner was an eckist, I would probably get upset if they
                  donated a 3 or 4 day weekend to going across the country to a
                  seminar, rather than spending the time and money for a vacation with
                  me.
                  >
                  > You should also discuss your free time. Eckankar has meetings on
                  nights and weekends. Would eckankar take precious time away from
                  your relationship? Some eckists never go to meetings and have
                  absolutely no interest in the meetings and seminars. Others are
                  organizational junkies and travel all over in quest of recognition as
                  a "high initiate" or a seminar speaker etc.
                  >
                  > You should also test her actual level of tolerance with other
                  pathways, especially if you are on one yourself. A Lot of
                  that "tolerance" is just word play. Eckists are constantly trying
                  to get new members to join their group. They pretend tolerance just
                  to slowly bring someone into eckankar. A good test of this would be
                  to find out how she feels about "cults"....Eckists absolutely hate
                  being labeled as a cult, even though they are a cult.
                  >
                  > Eckankar has an organizational inferiority complex and eckists
                  desperately want to be classed with other "legitimate" religions, if
                  such a thing even exists.
                  >
                  > Relationships are real. Eckankar is an illusion. The problem is
                  that eckankar can definitely get in the way of a relationship built
                  upon truth. Talk it out. Let her know how you feel ad find out how
                  deeply she is involved. Try the Ford Johnson book. Good luck with
                  your relationship
                  >
                  > Sword




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                • ~Spirit Dancer~
                  You can down load the book at his High Consciousness Society web site. (faster than waiting for it to ship) I hear he is also going to separate the first
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 23, 2004
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                    You can down load the book at his High Consciousness Society web site. (faster than waiting for it to ship) I hear he is also going to separate the first half of his book on the Eck deceptions.... from his current work.

                    Paul Olson <Paul@...> wrote:PS. Ford Johnson's book is titled "Confessions of a God Seeker" and is available at Amazon.com

                    The first 1/2 of the book is an expose; of eckankar.

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