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Freedom

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  • Paul Olson
    I m in an off topic kind of mood tonight. It would interest me to hear some of the realizations that you may have had since leaving eckankar, about freedom.
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 7, 2003
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      I'm in an "off topic" kind of mood tonight.

      It would interest me to hear some of the realizations that you may have had since leaving eckankar, about freedom. Does it mean something more? Or Different than it used too? Has it effected your personal or business, or spiritual life?

      I'll start with a really simple one and if someone here wants to expand on it, please do so.

      My example of a little bit of a better understanding of freedom, is freedom from fear.

      Simple example: Someone approached me the other day and said "I'll pray for you Paul".

      Back in the dark old days of eckankar, this statement might have triggered an "eck response"......... Something like....."Please Don't Pray for me! Prayer is a form of black magic! You are unintentionally trying to force your will or your version of what is best for me, upon me, without my knowledge or consent" Or some such eck platitude bullshit! And of course, I would have totally insulted this well meaning person, and probably without even knowing it.

      Today, I know and understand that no one else's thoughts can effect me, or change me in any way that is against or harmful to my own spiritual direction. I have gained a bit more freedom by learning to allow others their freedom as well.

      My answer to that statement the other day was: "Thanks, I need all the help I can get" which brought a smile to her face.

      What have you found?

      Sword



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • swallow472000
      ... have had since leaving eckankar, about freedom. Does it mean something more? Or Different than it used too? Has it effected your personal or business,
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 8, 2003
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        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <Paul@V...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm in an "off topic" kind of mood tonight.
        >
        > It would interest me to hear some of the realizations that you may
        have had since leaving eckankar, about freedom. Does it mean
        something more? Or Different than it used too? Has it effected your
        personal or business, or spiritual life?
        >
        > I'll start with a really simple one and if someone here wants to
        expand on it, please do so.
        >
        > My example of a little bit of a better understanding of freedom, is
        freedom from fear.
        >
        > Simple example: Someone approached me the other day and said "I'll
        pray for you Paul".
        >
        > Back in the dark old days of eckankar, this statement might have
        triggered an "eck response"......... Something like....."Please Don't
        Pray for me! Prayer is a form of black magic! You are
        unintentionally trying to force your will or your version of what is
        best for me, upon me, without my knowledge or consent" Or some such
        eck platitude bullshit! And of course, I would have totally insulted
        this well meaning person, and probably without even knowing it.
        >
        > Today, I know and understand that no one else's thoughts can effect
        me, or change me in any way that is against or harmful to my own
        spiritual direction. I have gained a bit more freedom by learning to
        allow others their freedom as well.
        >
        > My answer to that statement the other day was: "Thanks, I need all
        the help I can get" which brought a smile to her face.
        >
        > What have you found?
        >
        > Sword
        >
        >
        > Hi Sword, Freedom for me is simple...I get to choose
        what my next thought will be. jimmi
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • pato
        Hi all, Thats a very cool question.The more I think about it,the cooler it becomes for me.It makes me think deep and I think it is a question I will be asking
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 8, 2003
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          Hi all,
          Thats a very cool question.The more I think about it,the cooler it becomes for me.It makes me think deep and I think it is a question I will be asking myself many times in the future.I am sure my answers may vary as time goes on.
          I think of freedom and I think of expanding space,it keeps on coming to me more and more.EXPANDING SPACE.
          I can see clearer,I feel more potential,I feel more open minded,know I am more aware and more importantly its reassuring to know I have more choice as well as the options being more.
          One thing I am sure,with freedom comes responsibility and I have to also respond more in that area.
          Its funny,maybe this doesn`t answer the question,maybe it does, that is all that is in my head when I read Sword`s post.

          Love Pato



          swallow472000 <Ejimbirds@...> wrote:
          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson"
          wrote:
          >
          > I'm in an "off topic" kind of mood tonight.
          >
          > It would interest me to hear some of the realizations that you may
          have had since leaving eckankar, about freedom. Does it mean
          something more? Or Different than it used too? Has it effected your
          personal or business, or spiritual life?
          >
          > I'll start with a really simple one and if someone here wants to
          expand on it, please do so.
          >
          > My example of a little bit of a better understanding of freedom, is
          freedom from fear.
          >
          > Simple example: Someone approached me the other day and said "I'll
          pray for you Paul".
          >
          > Back in the dark old days of eckankar, this statement might have
          triggered an "eck response"......... Something like....."Please Don't
          Pray for me! Prayer is a form of black magic! You are
          unintentionally trying to force your will or your version of what is
          best for me, upon me, without my knowledge or consent" Or some such
          eck platitude bullshit! And of course, I would have totally insulted
          this well meaning person, and probably without even knowing it.
          >
          > Today, I know and understand that no one else's thoughts can effect
          me, or change me in any way that is against or harmful to my own
          spiritual direction. I have gained a bit more freedom by learning to
          allow others their freedom as well.
          >
          > My answer to that statement the other day was: "Thanks, I need all
          the help I can get" which brought a smile to her face.
          >
          > What have you found?
          >
          > Sword
          >
          >
          > Hi Sword, Freedom for me is simple...I get to choose
          what my next thought will be. jimmi
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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        • Sharon
          ... your ... Arrgghhhh....for me, freedom is being out of school and not having to do homework. Since getting out, I ve discovered that freedom is *not*
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 9, 2003
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            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "swallow472000" <Ejimbirds@a...>
            wrote:


            > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <Paul@V...>
            wrote:


            > >


            > > I'm in an "off topic" kind of mood tonight.


            > >


            > > It would interest me to hear some of the realizations that you may


            > have had since leaving eckankar, about freedom. Does it mean


            > something more? Or Different than it used too? Has it effected
            your


            > personal or business, or spiritual life?


            > >






            Arrgghhhh....for me, freedom is being out of school and not having to
            do homework. <ggg>




            Since getting out, I've discovered that freedom is *not* the false
            freedom I had in e-kult.




            I liked your example of accepting someone's prayer! When I was a cult
            member, I just didn't "get" all the nonsense about prayer being black
            magic, and if someone wanted to pray for me I'd accept gracefully -
            silly me, I thought refusing wouldn't be very loving! And...if there
            was truly danger in it, wouldn't the "mahanta" protect me?




            I had a mass said for Twitch's poor lost soul - partly because I
            sincerely hoped it would help, and partly to annoy the eckthugs. <gg>
            I've also said a few prayers for Klemp, and cult members in general -
            sort of "generic" type prayers, asking that God will be there with a
            little extra dose of *real* light & love for them, if that's truly
            what they want in their hearts.




            If they don't like it, tough! <gg>




            Hugs,




            Sharon








            > > I'll start with a really simple one and if someone here wants to


            > expand on it, please do so.


            > >


            > > My example of a little bit of a better understanding of freedom,
            is


            > freedom from fear.


            > >


            > > Simple example: Someone approached me the other day and said
            "I'll


            > pray for you Paul".


            > >


            > > Back in the dark old days of eckankar, this statement might have


            > triggered an "eck response"......... Something like....."Please
            Don't


            > Pray for me! Prayer is a form of black magic! You are


            > unintentionally trying to force your will or your version of what is


            > best for me, upon me, without my knowledge or consent" Or some such


            > eck platitude bullshit! And of course, I would have totally
            insulted


            > this well meaning person, and probably without even knowing it.


            > >


            > > Today, I know and understand that no one else's thoughts can
            effect


            > me, or change me in any way that is against or harmful to my own


            > spiritual direction. I have gained a bit more freedom by learning
            to


            > allow others their freedom as well.


            > >


            > > My answer to that statement the other day was: "Thanks, I need
            all


            > the help I can get" which brought a smile to her face.


            > >


            > > What have you found?


            > >


            > > Sword


            > >


            > >


            > > Hi Sword, Freedom for me is simple...I get to choose


            > what my next thought will be. jimmi
          • fishnik2003
            i just got a chuckle when i read sword s post. its so true; if a person says they will pray for an eckist (which is generally just the person s way of saying
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 9, 2003
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              i just got a chuckle when i read sword's post. its so true; if a
              person says they will pray for an eckist (which is generally just
              the person's way of saying that they have compassion), the eckist
              will respond with , "please dont pray for me", etc etc.

              this is one of the things that always annoyed hell out of me about
              the local eckists. they were so quick to 'put u in ur place'.
              here is some of the eck talk i remember:

              me: i hope i did not offend anyone in the meeting
              eckist: u are giving urself too much power

              me: how lucky u are to have found such a nice place
              eckist: there is no luck in it

              me: do u think this develops psychic ability or awareness?
              eckist: i dont like the word psychic, but i'm talking with u the
              best i can using the vocabulary that we have to work with

              me: i read "flute of god" and found it interesting
              eckist: "flue of god" is not something u read, it is something u live

              me: sometimes i really have feelings and thoughts of self doubt
              eckist: u are what we call 'standing in the manure'

              i could go on, but its too depressing.

              fishnik
            • fishnik2003
              i still recall a quote from harold, the standard by which to judge truth is spiritual freedom . this is a profoundly true statement, and one of the insidious
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 9, 2003
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                i still recall a quote from harold, "the standard by which to judge
                truth is spiritual freedom". this is a profoundly true statement,
                and one of the insidious things about eckankar - it mixes gems of
                truth with baloney.

                i continue to stand by that statement, in spite of the fact that
                harold made it. spiritual freedom is to be free to follow the call
                of soul, wherever that may lead. this call is most often
                characterized by an expansion of perceptions. ur perceptions undergo
                a transformation, and then, literally, u are standing on a different
                plane of experience. the old perceptions, along with the old
                playing field, are no longer relevant and must pass away.

                this call of soul, this evolution in perception, which is
                increasingly in alignment with GOD, is not an easy journey. and the
                journey is only possible to the extent that u are not being held by
                your own emotional, mental, societal, self.

                eckists leave eckankar because soul has gotten whatever can be
                gotten from the experience, and demands to move onward. demands to
                remove the barriers between soul and GOD.

                on a more personal note, i have experienced this increased freedom
                as a kind of returning to myself, who i really am. i am living from
                the inside out, not trying to impose eck behavior onto myself.

                fishnik
              • violinmike2002
                When I became convinced that the Universe is natural that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 9, 2007
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                  When I became convinced that the Universe is natural that all the
                  ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul,
                  into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of
                  freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell, the dungeon was
                  flooded with light and all the bolts, and bars, and manacles became
                  dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me
                  no master in all the wide world not even in infinite space. I was free.

                  free to think, to express my thoughts

                  free to live to my own ideal

                  free to live for myself and those I loved

                  free to use all my faculties, all my senses

                  free to spread imagination's wings

                  free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope

                  free to judge and determine for myself

                  free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the "inspired" books
                  that savages have produced, and all the barbarous legends of the past

                  free from popes and priests

                  free from all the "called" and "set apart"

                  free from sanctified mistakes and holy lies

                  free from the fear of eternal pain

                  free from the winged monsters of night

                  free from devils, ghosts, and gods

                  For the first time I was free. There were no prohibited places in all
                  the realms of my thought, no air, no space, where fancy could not
                  spread her painted wings

                  no chains for my limbs

                  no lashes for my back

                  no fires for my flesh

                  no master's frown or threat

                  no following another's steps

                  no need to bow, or cringe, or crawl, or utter lying words.

                  I was free. I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously, faced all worlds.
                  And then my heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and
                  went out in love to all the heroes, the thinkers who gave their lives
                  for the liberty of hand and brain

                  for the freedom of labor and thought

                  to those who fell on the fierce fields of war, to those who died in
                  dungeons bound with chains

                  to those who proudly mounted scaffold's stairs

                  to those whose bones were crushed, whose flesh was scarred and torn

                  to those by fire consumed

                  to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land, whose thoughts and
                  deeds have given freedom to the sons of men.

                  And I vowed to grasp the torch that they had held, and hold it high,
                  that light might conquer darkness still."

                  ..........Robert G. Ingersoll (18331899), "Why Am I An Agnostic?", 1896

                  Although Robert Ingersoll wrote about being an Agnostic opposing
                  Christianity, there is a lot that relates to us leaving the myths
                  of eckankar. There is also a good wikapedia article on him.
                  I found this very inspiring. He was an orator even mentioned by
                  Mark Twain in his writings.

                  Mike
                • tomleafeater
                  Excellent post. Amazing how closely his words come to expressing what I have felt in leaving eckankar! Wow!!! Thanks for posting this. It s great! It is a
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 10, 2007
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                    Excellent post. Amazing how closely his words come to expressing what
                    I have felt in leaving eckankar! Wow!!!

                    Thanks for posting this. It's great! It is a breath of fresh air to
                    be able to cast aside the manacles.

                    I liked especially this, but it all was very good:

                    "For the first time I was free. There were no prohibited places in
                    all the realms of my thought, no air, no space, where fancy could not
                    spread her painted wings."

                    Sums it up nicely!

                    Kent


                    --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "violinmike2002"
                    <violinmike2002@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > When I became convinced that the Universe is natural that all the
                    > ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my
                    soul,
                    > into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of
                    > freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell, the dungeon was
                    > flooded with light and all the bolts, and bars, and manacles became
                    > dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for
                    me
                    > no master in all the wide world not even in infinite space. I was
                    free.
                    >
                    > free to think, to express my thoughts
                    >
                    > free to live to my own ideal
                    >
                    > free to live for myself and those I loved
                    >
                    > free to use all my faculties, all my senses
                    >
                    > free to spread imagination's wings
                    >
                    > free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope
                    >
                    > free to judge and determine for myself
                    >
                    > free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the "inspired"
                    books
                    > that savages have produced, and all the barbarous legends of the
                    past
                    >
                    > free from popes and priests
                    >
                    > free from all the "called" and "set apart"
                    >
                    > free from sanctified mistakes and holy lies
                    >
                    > free from the fear of eternal pain
                    >
                    > free from the winged monsters of night
                    >
                    > free from devils, ghosts, and gods
                    >
                    > For the first time I was free. There were no prohibited places in
                    all
                    > the realms of my thought, no air, no space, where fancy could not
                    > spread her painted wings
                    >
                    > no chains for my limbs
                    >
                    > no lashes for my back
                    >
                    > no fires for my flesh
                    >
                    > no master's frown or threat
                    >
                    > no following another's steps
                    >
                    > no need to bow, or cringe, or crawl, or utter lying words.
                    >
                    > I was free. I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously, faced all
                    worlds.
                    > And then my heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and
                    > went out in love to all the heroes, the thinkers who gave their
                    lives
                    > for the liberty of hand and brain
                    >
                    > for the freedom of labor and thought
                    >
                    > to those who fell on the fierce fields of war, to those who died in
                    > dungeons bound with chains
                    >
                    > to those who proudly mounted scaffold's stairs
                    >
                    > to those whose bones were crushed, whose flesh was scarred and torn
                    >
                    > to those by fire consumed
                    >
                    > to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land, whose thoughts
                    and
                    > deeds have given freedom to the sons of men.
                    >
                    > And I vowed to grasp the torch that they had held, and hold it high,
                    > that light might conquer darkness still."
                    >
                    > ..........Robert G. Ingersoll (18331899), "Why Am I An Agnostic?",
                    1896
                    >
                    > Although Robert Ingersoll wrote about being an Agnostic opposing
                    > Christianity, there is a lot that relates to us leaving the myths
                    > of eckankar. There is also a good wikapedia article on him.
                    > I found this very inspiring. He was an orator even mentioned by
                    > Mark Twain in his writings.
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >
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