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Some more thoughts

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  • David D. Rogers
    Some more thoughts after re-reading my message, I also had many problems with Paul Twitchell s writings when I was in Eck; they were very elitist, and had a
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 19, 2001
      Some more thoughts after re-reading my message,

      I also had many problems with Paul Twitchell's writings when I was in Eck;
      they were very elitist, and had a lot of warnings about leaving "the path".
      Frankly, I had a hard time reading them, in comparison with Harold Klemp's,
      even though Klemp was not such a great writer either. And Twitchell's
      writings did not seem very fluid to me. (Imagine my surprise, in light of
      that, when I found that Twitchell had plagiarized so many of "his" books.)
      I think another problem that got me to leave was that I still wasn't
      assured that many aspects of the teaching were true. I was waiting to
      "prove" them to myself, not quite taking an experience as "proof", because
      I knew that it was subjective. Finally, I asked a higher initiate abou
      this, and he told me that the very fact that I experienced something is a
      proof. I then asked, what if I merely imagine something--that's proof too!,
      I was told. That in itself was disillusioning--it began to dawn on me that
      a lot of the "proof" in Eckankar involves duping oneself.

      Another experience was particularly disillusioning, involving Volume III of
      "Letters to Gail". I asked a particularly well-known higher initiate (he
      was one of the H.I.'s featured in "The Journey Home" video) about it, and
      that it turned out that others had wrote parts of the book--which I still
      don't really know is true. (This, of course, would have happened during the
      bad 'ol days of Darwin Gross; every Eckist today knows that Gross was bad,
      bad, bad, and that Eckankar has fully cleansed itself. Ironic--the lesson
      Eckists were supposed to take after Gross was expelled in '83 was that even
      a Living Eck Master can have a downfall, and yet if you read
      alt.religion.eckankar today, the attitude is very much that any doubts
      about Harold Klemp cannot be tolerated.)

      This H.I. told me that even if Twitchell didn't write those passages, that
      they still came from him anyway, because they came from his spirit. I was
      frankly shocked, and I felt that I couldn't express it. (I could have, but
      that didn't occur to me at the time, and I would have certainly been given
      a talking down to by one or more Eckists.) And there are two big, gaping
      holes in this explanation. First of all, what is the difference between
      this and "channeling"? If any Eckist tried to "channel" Paul Twitchell in
      any other context, s/he would be on the spiraling black road towards a
      spiritual downfall. Why is this so different? And seond, if Gross was so
      untrustworthy, why should we believe that these words came from Paul
      Twitchell's spirit?

      It was later that I found out about Twitchell's plagiarism, and how the
      controversy over that came to a head in 1984, when Klemp came up with his
      somewhat (manipulatively) brilliant explanation of the "astral
      library"--the reason his books read like someone else's is because they
      both copied from the same source material in the astral library, where all
      "original" works are copied from.

      Eckankar is as orthodox as any other path. The very fact that they rail
      against "orthodox" religions shows that they're uncomfortable about
      something; they just don't realize what it is yet. Eckankar sets it up as a
      contrast: we are everything that they're not, and vice versa; we are the
      fastest and most direct spiritual path to God, and they are an orthodoxy.
      If you think too much about what an orthodox religion is, you'll see it in
      Eckankar--but your being discouraged from looking objectively at Eckankar
      because you won't consider doubts almost assures this won't happen.
      Everything in Eckankar is right; anyone who doubts or criticizes it should
      be shunned at the very least, and would be denied rights if Eckists had
      their way. Everything in Eckankar proves everything else in Eckankar, and
      if you doubt any of it, that means that you're not worthy enough to
      appreciate the beauty of the teachings. Of course, everyone has doubts, so
      no one can really live up to those qualifications without going crazy.
      Unfortunately, many do.

      Peace, David

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    • DP
      Sharon: Thanks for those 2 letters, enjoyed them. I ve stopped going to the local events/center here in (location deleted by Sharon). Haven t really been
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 19, 2001
        Sharon: Thanks for those 2 letters, enjoyed them. I've stopped going to
        the local events/center here in (location deleted by Sharon). Haven't really been bugged
        or called...other than from friends who say they miss me. I get constant
        updates from a friend who visits the alt site. He's much more adamant
        about EK than I am. I basically eased out of it and like Orange, have
        not been the least interested in finding another 'One True Path to

        People need to know about the dark aspects of Eckankar, so keep up the
        good work. Interesting about those 'true believers' having that attitude
        of torturing those who leave the path etc. Haven't seen/heard any of
        that stuff. deleted by

        I know this one HI who has 1 foot in the Baptist Church and the other in
        Eckankar, scared to death to let the Church know he's an Eckist; tries
        to slip in 'the ick' to those in the church. I haven't noticed that
        venegeful type thing around here. Mostly sedate, well-behaved for the
        most part. And this guy's an 8th, and always been positive and upbeat.


        Hi DP!

        Thanks for your input! Hopefully this will get thru...I'm still using an old 486 with Windows 3.1 (which I love) and often when I come here, I get "General Protection Fault" and have to reboot, and try again whenever I get to my daughter's house, and my grandson lets me use his computer.

        I've deleted your email address and location....and I'd like to ask, anyone in the future who would like to remain anonymous, please "join" egroups with a pseudo. Many former members don't want to be identified, but I have no way of knowing. So please...let me know. I can "approve" postings here with email, but when I have to pop in & try to edit, it gets complicated.

        You didn't say how long you'd been a member...but I just want to let you know, if you're going through anything, well...feel free to write publicly or privately. Since I left the cult a little over two years ago, well...I've learned that it's different for everyone. Sometimes, it can be pretty rough. But...everyone gets through it, and it's worth it!

        I don't feel like a long response right now...but I'm sort of curious. Why is that 8th Initiate going to a Baptist church? Is he honestly trying to "spread the word" or something? It's like he's trying to fulfil Twitch's "infiltrate" indoctrination!!!

        Of course, it's doubtful if you'll be hassled in any way from "real-life" eckists. Unless, of course, you go to an HI/ESA/RESA and ask some very serious questions.

        Well...thanks for posting here!!

        Love & Hugs,

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