Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Re Inititator's handbook

Expand Messages
  • harveydodds
    ... You re such a nice person Marie. Don t let me influence you. What about all the time and phone bills you invested in Eckankar? I d have ignored them and
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 3, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Marie Patrick <zirkar@y...>
      wrote:
      > Hi Sharon, (snipped)


      > I sent the handbooks back just this week because they
      > were the only thing given to me that I did not pay
      > for. When I received them it was made quite clear
      > they did not belong to me just lent and if requested
      > at any time I wouold have to return them. I really
      > feel they were not mine to give away or sell just as I
      > would feel like that about any book lent to me.
      > Anyway I nearly just popped them in the mail without
      > stamps but then put on N.Z$2 which would probably be
      > not enough and the centre will have to cough up the
      > rest (hopefully). They did at least supply me with an
      > addressed envelope.

      You're such a nice person Marie. Don't let me influence
      you. What about all the time and phone bills you invested
      in Eckankar? I'd have ignored them and kept it or worse
      send back in the envelope an invitation to kiss my spiritual
      ass. One of my spiritual lessons has been to not let
      authoritarian figures tell me what to do unless a) they
      have a gun or b) they have a paycheck for me.
    • zirkar
      ... Hi Harvey, You are quite right, I am nice and I am brassed off about that. It all goes back to my upbringing in convent school then years and years so
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 4, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "harveydodds"
        <harveydodds@y...> wrote:
        > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Marie Patrick <zirkar@y...>
        > wrote:
        > >>
        > > I> You're such a nice person Marie. Don't let me influence
        > you. What about all the time and phone bills you invested
        > in Eckankar? I'd have ignored them and kept it or worse
        > send back in the envelope an invitation to kiss my spiritual
        > ass. One of my spiritual lessons has been to not let
        > authoritarian figures tell me what to do unless a) they
        > have a gun or b) they have a paycheck for me.

        Hi Harvey,
        You are quite right, I am "nice" and I am brassed off about that. It
        all goes back to my upbringing in convent school then years and years
        so self disciplined in eck. I long to break out of being that way
        but it is difficult after all that brainwashing and control.It is
        hard as I am getting older as well. Maybe the way is for me to take
        up drinking or drugs or something. Any suggestions would be welcome,
        Regards,
        Marie
      • Paul Olson
        I can vouch for the medicinal qualities of a Bailey s on Ice or an occasional Margarita, or whatever! This was definitely one benefit of leaving eckankar.
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 4, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          I can vouch for the medicinal qualities of a Bailey's on Ice or an occasional Margarita, or whatever! This was definitely one benefit of leaving eckankar. Social drinking became acceptable to me and enjoyable as well.....I'm not alienating people any longer when I decline a drink.

          Sword

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: zirkar
          To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 1:36 PM
          Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Re Inititator's handbook


          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "harveydodds"
          <harveydodds@y...> wrote:
          > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Marie Patrick <zirkar@y...>
          > wrote:
          > >>
          > > I> You're such a nice person Marie. Don't let me influence
          > you. What about all the time and phone bills you invested
          > in Eckankar? I'd have ignored them and kept it or worse
          > send back in the envelope an invitation to kiss my spiritual
          > ass. One of my spiritual lessons has been to not let
          > authoritarian figures tell me what to do unless a) they
          > have a gun or b) they have a paycheck for me.

          Hi Harvey,
          You are quite right, I am "nice" and I am brassed off about that. It
          all goes back to my upbringing in convent school then years and years
          so self disciplined in eck. I long to break out of being that way
          but it is difficult after all that brainwashing and control.It is
          hard as I am getting older as well. Maybe the way is for me to take
          up drinking or drugs or something. Any suggestions would be welcome,
          Regards,
          Marie


          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT




          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sharon
          ... It ... years ... take ... Hi Marie - Don t be embarrassed about being nice ! I m laughing here - for some odd reason, back when I turned 40 I thought I
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 4, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "zirkar" <zirkar@y...> wrote:
            > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "harveydodds"
            > <harveydodds@y...> wrote:
            > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, Marie Patrick <zirkar@y...>
            > > wrote:
            > > >>
            > > > I> You're such a nice person Marie. Don't let me influence
            > > you. What about all the time and phone bills you invested
            > > in Eckankar? I'd have ignored them and kept it or worse
            > > send back in the envelope an invitation to kiss my spiritual
            > > ass. One of my spiritual lessons has been to not let
            > > authoritarian figures tell me what to do unless a) they
            > > have a gun or b) they have a paycheck for me.
            >
            > Hi Harvey,
            > You are quite right, I am "nice" and I am brassed off about that.
            It
            > all goes back to my upbringing in convent school then years and
            years
            > so self disciplined in eck. I long to break out of being that way
            > but it is difficult after all that brainwashing and control.It is
            > hard as I am getting older as well. Maybe the way is for me to
            take
            > up drinking or drugs or something. Any suggestions would be welcome,


            Hi Marie -

            Don't be embarrassed about being "nice"! I'm laughing here - for some
            odd reason, back when I turned 40 I thought "I don't have to be nice
            anymore!" <ggg> I think the important part was "have to". Sort of
            funny, because here on the internet many people may think I don't have
            one drop of "nice" in me. Anyway, back then I realized it's just my
            nature to be nice, it's not *entirely* programming. Being not-nice
            takes a lot of effort, and I'd rather not be bothered.

            Sometimes there's a fine line between "nice" and "doormat", and that
            may not be easy to recognize.

            I turned "nasty" relatively quickly at a.r.e. - although I prefer to
            either resolve conflict or stay away from it, not necessarily because
            I don't like it, but so often it's impossible simply because people
            are people, we're all different, and there are so many ways of just
            thinking & being, and although it's natural for people to be
            "different" sometimes that can cause trouble - so out of just general
            respect for people sometimes you just have to let it go, stay away
            from it - and hopefully others will grant us the same respect. And
            sometimes you've just got to stand up and fight - otherwise the
            bullies of the world will just keep doing it.

            Seriously, I really respect your decision to send back the e-kult
            material which contains the blurb about it all being the cult's
            property, and it must be returned on request. My idealistic little
            heart still believes in stuff like that!! I couldn't believe it when
            I started posting the discourses! But...how can you deal honestly and
            respectfully with those who aren't respectful and honest themselves?
            I think it's sweet that you're able to hold on to that part of
            yourself. I miss it in myself, to be honest - I'm hoping that I just
            put that lost innocence on the shelf somewhere inside, and when I'm
            finished with my "work" here, and done what I feel is enough to help
            others who might get sucked in like I was, then I can bring it back
            again and really be "me".

            Anyway...I like to say now I've had 12 years working at not having to
            be nice, and I think I'm getting damned good at it!! ;o)

            And, relating to some other comments here, I would say that probably
            99.999% of former members, even those who go through a little spurt of
            that big no-no "Anger", aren't a bunch of wackos who are focused on
            hatred, destroying the cult, etc. It's just not that important.
            Sure, it's nice to see people leaving - I feel so happy thinking about
            how they've got so many delightful things ahead of them, in the
            process of waking up and re-discovering themselves, with freedom and
            clarity of mind and heart. It balances out the times when I'm reading
            over at a.r.e., giving the eckthugs the finger. When I don't feel
            like using *all* my fingers posting, I find one finger works just fine
            - they'll get it "on the inner", I'm sure. <ggg>

            Just today I was thinking how horrible it must be for Klemp and the
            rest of them, who know the truth and have to face it every day, and
            try to cover it up, rationalize, etc. I wonder - are they just doing
            what they think is best - could Klemp possibly be doing it because he
            actually *cares*, and thinks it would be less hurtful to keep the lie
            going, and just "evolve" it? Or...does he honestly believe his own
            bullshit, that he's really some kind of "master of the universe", and
            getting instructions from Suggie? It's bad enough having to lie to
            the rest of the world, but having to lie to yourself too, well - I
            can't imagine what that does to a person. Well...maybe a little,
            because I know that I lied to myself all those years in e-kult, about
            so many little things that just didn't feel right, my "doubts"...and
            it had negative affects on me in many ways.

            I've learned *so* much since getting out!! No...I am NOT at all
            thankful for the "learning experience" of my cult years. I would have
            learned and grown more & better without it. I *know* this, because I
            know myself.

            For me, one big realization is how absolutely silly and ridiculous
            e-kult really is!! All that "secret" stuff needs to be kept secret
            because a sane, normal person would die laughing if they saw it! And
            ...we all took it so seriously!!! Twitch *did* have a sense of humor
            - my own sick sense of humor can appreciate the big joke.

            I believe it's spring in New Zealand now? I sort of lost track -
            we're heading for fall here, and I believe you're the opposite. I
            hope you had a good winter!! You know, it seems like yesterday that I
            was thinking the cold would never end...and it'll be here again soon!

            Gotta go!!

            Hugs,

            Sharon
          • zirkar
            ... me Hi Sharon, I have been thinking about being nice and I do not think I can change now as it is really ground into me. That aside I am able to stand
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 8, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@y...>
              wrote:
              > ---
              >
              > Don't be embarrassed about being "nice"! > one drop of "nice" in
              me>

              Hi Sharon,
              I have been thinking about being "nice" and I do not think I can
              change now as it is really ground into me. That aside I am able to
              stand up for myself if necessary so I am not a door mat. I just
              usually want to do what is right and not hurt any one if possible.

              > > > I believe it's spring in New Zealand now? I sort of lost
              track -
              > we're heading for fall here, and I believe you're the opposite. I
              > hope you had a good winter!! You know, it seems like yesterday
              that I
              > was thinking the cold would never end...and it'll be here again
              soon!

              We are supposedly having spring now but after a mild winter it is
              quite cold now. Snow predicted today on the hills! What we are
              having is many earthquakes. Two weeks ago we had a quake 7.1 on the
              Richter scale. It was centered about 170 kilometers from where I
              live but very near my grandchildren. Fortunately no one was hurt
              because the area where it was centered is rural land. Since then we
              keep having after shocks, a couple which were over 6 on the scale.
              Where I live it is only five minutes walk from the sea and below sea
              level so I always get concerned in case we have a tidal wave. As
              well if I dig now more than ten inches down into the soil there is
              water so we are really floating and I worry in case the whole place
              is going to liquify and I imgine my whole house with me inside
              disappearing into the mud! Oh dear. Why is it that most of these
              quakes are at night? everything seems much worse then.
              Well come on spring at least my spring flowers are blooming and they
              are just so uplifting better than eck!
              love,
              Marie
              >
              > Gotta go!!
              >
              > Hugs,
              >
              > Sharon
            • Sharon
              ... This is sort of funny - just yesterday my daughter & I were talking about being nice , and I thought of you! Anyway, it started because I had to bitch
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 8, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "zirkar" <zirkar@y...> wrote:


                > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@y...>


                > wrote:


                > > ---


                > >


                > > Don't be embarrassed about being "nice"! > one drop of "nice" in


                > me>


                >


                > Hi Sharon,


                > I have been thinking about being "nice" and I do not think I can


                > change now as it is really ground into me. That aside I am able to


                > stand up for myself if necessary so I am not a door mat. I just


                > usually want to do what is right and not hurt any one if possible.


                >






                This is sort of funny - just yesterday my daughter & I were talking
                about being "nice", and I thought of you! Anyway, it started because
                I had to bitch about something to my "fishing buddy" about a small
                little matter that I thought should be obvious, and the results were
                so immediate & astounding it even impressed my daughter! So, we were
                just sort of laughing & talking about it, and the whole subject of
                being "nice", and we ended up laughing & wishing that if the whole
                world were as nice & considerate & observant as *we* were, we would
                never have to get bitchy!!




                So, it's sort of a matter of awareness and sensitivity I think, and
                although I'm not totally sure, I believe that there's even "proof"
                that men & women are wired differently - sure there are lots of "nice"
                men too, but it's still in a sort of different way.




                But, I realized that being "nice" is simply following the good ol'
                Golden Rule. But you know, that doesn't even work all the time,
                because some people, well...I can't think of the exact words right now
                other than by using a "real life" example. The only one that comes to
                mind is kids. Some of them would like to be "done unto" by being
                allowed to never go to school, and being bought everything under the
                sun. Some adults aren't much different, so the whole point of the
                "Golden Rule" would be lost on them.




                And I think motherhood has a lot to do with it. Some people just
                naturally "pick up" on things, some don't. For example, when your
                kids are out of sight and things are quiet. Sometimes it's because
                they're just playing quietly, but sometimes it's because they're up to
                something. And often we just somehow sort of "know" when to check &
                see.




                Anyway, I'm just hoping that one of these days someone *won't* be
                nice, and I'll get a copy of the Initiator's Manual!! <gg> I'm sure
                MN doesn't realize & appreciate the fact that when most HIs, etc.,
                leave the cult, they're acting a lot more honorably than MN deserves
                when they return the "secret" stuff - especially when it's at the
                former member's own expense.






                > > > > I believe it's spring in New Zealand now? I sort of lost


                > track -


                > > we're heading for fall here, and I believe you're the opposite. I


                > > hope you had a good winter!! You know, it seems like yesterday


                > that I


                > > was thinking the cold would never end...and it'll be here again


                > soon!


                >


                > We are supposedly having spring now but after a mild winter it is


                > quite cold now. Snow predicted today on the hills! What we are


                > having is many earthquakes. Two weeks ago we had a quake 7.1 on the


                > Richter scale. It was centered about 170 kilometers from where I


                > live but very near my grandchildren. Fortunately no one was hurt


                > because the area where it was centered is rural land. Since then we


                > keep having after shocks, a couple which were over 6 on the scale.


                > Where I live it is only five minutes walk from the sea and below sea


                > level so I always get concerned in case we have a tidal wave. As


                > well if I dig now more than ten inches down into the soil there is


                > water so we are really floating and I worry in case the whole place


                > is going to liquify and I imgine my whole house with me inside


                > disappearing into the mud! Oh dear. Why is it that most of these


                > quakes are at night? everything seems much worse then.


                > Well come on spring at least my spring flowers are blooming and they


                > are just so uplifting better than eck!


                > love,




                Sounds like you're living a bit dangerously, Marie!! Hmmmm...I'm
                wondering, is the water ten inches down salt, or fresh? That's
                something I've never thought about before, what "groundwater" is like
                when you're close to the ocean.




                This reminded me again of the big forest fires in Arizona and Canada -
                natural "disasters" like this - things like that have been going on
                since long before humans, it's just that without a lot of people
                around, they're not noticed & didn't have as much of an impact - in
                "nature", they were just considered "normal". Sort of funny how
                primitive & superstitious we were about natural events when we were in
                the cult, isn't it?




                I've been thinking about spring flowers too, but here, it's a matter
                of fall planting for spring blooms! My son & daughter-in-law just
                bought a house and we're all looking forward to "landscaping" it,
                using mostly existing "family" plants, and even some which have been
                living in pots for two years - I moved, and didn't really have
                anyplace to put them that "felt" right. I was a tad bit frustrated
                about it, but it all worked out amazingly perfectly!!




                We've had a lot of rain here recently, and some nearby areas even had
                some extremely damaging flooding. I'm usually concerned about
                flooding, because my daughter & grandchildren live in a low area
                that's flooded in the past. No earthquakes here (well...actually
                there was a small un-noticeable one some years ago) but I know they
                must be *very* unsettling - relatively recently a meteor hit close to
                where I was living, and while the ground didn't shake hard, there was
                an almost imperceptible "vibration" that was very unsettling.




                Well...enjoy spring!!




                Hugs,




                Sharon
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.