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  • Sharon
    Hello everyone! And thanks to the two new posters. My apologies for not approving these sooner...haven t been checking & need to change my notification
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 18, 2001
      Hello everyone!

      And thanks to the two "new" posters. My apologies for not "approving" these sooner...haven't
      been checking & need to change my "notification" address to one I check more frequently.

      Nice to read your story, EckOrange. Had it not been for many of the things in the "teachings"
      which were specifically put there in order to convince people to join and they basically, entrap
      them, perhaps I and many others would have been able to do the same thing...take the "good" in
      it, and from everywhere else.

      But...Eckankar doesn't do that. Harold Klemp has *not* done anything to correct the elitist,
      arrogant, fundamentalist "only path to God" garbage in the cult. If anything, he's just made it
      worse, "pushed" the "evangelizing" message, and continued to con people. Of course...he's
      conned himself.

      The cult *still* tells people they *must* remain members or they'll lose that "connection" to
      God/Holy Spirit. The cult still tells people that whether they know it or not, they've *always*
      been with the "cultmaster" and hopefully they've wised up this time and won't make the tragic
      mistake of refusing to submit totally.

      Eckankar was founded on lies and deceit, and as the cult "evolves" the only thing it seems to be
      doing about that foundation is filling in the cracks with more lies and deceit.

      By the way, EckOrange....I'm glad that you were helped overcome any limitations and bonds you
      got from Christianity. I'd just like to comment on that, that when I was an eckist I studied many
      Christian teachings, and especially many of the older "greats" and "saints". Do you know what I
      saw there? Well....what I saw was "the eck". I saw in the traditions and experiences of others,
      very valid "spiritual exercises" that had truly lifted many to those "higher planes" over the past
      2,000 years, and continues to do so until this day.

      Twitchell's "vision" for his little cult, and his own "godhood", was that it would follow the same
      lines as Christianity....yes, even to having its own "Vatican". Over the past 2,000 years
      Christianity *has* had its share of problems. But I'd like to say, from personal experience, that
      many of Eckankar's "clergy" and "high initiates" exhibit behavior and attitudes not at all unlike the
      behavior and attitudes of the Inquisition. You can bet your life on the fact that if they could get
      away with it, I and other former members who speak out would be put on the rack and burned at
      the stake. And this behavior and attitudes are a direct result of the "teachings" of the cult...and
      those in the "highest" places at Cult Headquarters condone and perhaps even encourage
      this...not officially, of course, but they are *very* happy to see *anything* that will interfere with
      any efforts to give the public a chance to see anything other than approved cult propaganda.

      Oh....for anyone on this list who doesn't read alt.religion.eckankar, another former eckist
      recommended an interesting website ... the easiest way is to post his whole post. Now, if the
      darn pesky 486 behaves, I'll post it here! Windows 3.1 & the other stuff I use isn't exactly
      compatible with Egroups!

      Okay...I'm having "technical difficulties" here...tell ya what, here's the link:
      http://x75.deja.com/%5bST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=717296631&CONTEXT=979861423.501284983&
      hitnum=11

      And if it doesn't work, go to Deja power search, thread title is "Entering the Theta State" and
      dwebber@... is the author, posting date 1/17/01

      Well...I gotta go!

      Hugs,

      Sharon
    • David D. Rogers
      ... Holy S---! And he s an 8th? Baptists were pretty much looked down upon by most Eckists I knew--okay, including myself--as one of the more extreme forms of
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 23, 2001
        > Message: 1
        > Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:07:24 -0800
        > From: DP
        > Subject: Re: Hi!


        > I know this one HI who has 1 foot in the Baptist Church and the other in
        > Eckankar, scared to death to let the Church know he's an Eckist; tries
        > to slip in 'the ick' to those in the church. I haven't noticed that
        > venegeful type thing around here. Mostly sedate, well-behaved for the
        > most part. And this guy's an 8th, and always been positive and upbeat.

        Holy S---! And he's an 8th? Baptists were pretty much looked down upon by
        most Eckists I knew--okay, including myself--as one of the more extreme
        forms of orthodox Christianity, a kal trap. I'm just curious, why is he a
        member of a Baptist church? Is he in a conservative community where he
        would be looked at funny if he wasn't in a church, let alone if he admitted
        he was a new ager?

        I remember Harold Klemp saying on a tape that it's okay to join a Christian
        church if the community norms demand it (not his exact words), and that one
        famous Eckist H.I. who was in her 70s or 80s (she knew and worked with Paul
        Twitchell--her name escapes me at the moment, but I think she was a 7th or
        an 8th) joined one when she moved to Minnesota.

        Eckists are some of the nicest people. There is one thing that bothers me
        about it, though--a lot of their "nice" mannerisms are pretty identical,
        and seem to be modeled after Harold Klemp. Also, every Eckist I've known
        seemed to be under the delusion that they can only think nice thoughts and
        do nice things, when in practice nobody only thinks nice thoughts and does
        nice things. Sometimes you're at your best, sometimes you're at the worst,
        and most of the time you're somewhere in-between. I'm not at all saying
        that one shouldn't try to improve their behavior; what I am saying is that
        one shouldn't be phobic about having negative thoughts. Continually having
        negative thoughts is unhealthy, but there isn't an either/or about it.

        When I was an Eckist, I had this impression that either I was going to be
        really happy or really depressed and negative; there wasn't really a middle
        ground. This was part of the black-white thinking that Eckankar promotes.
        Usually it's just better to work through whatever you're working through,
        find out why you feel the way you do--which you can't do if you try to
        suppress your negative thoughts--and move on.

        Most Eckists won't be seen with saliva foaming out of their mouths. I'm
        sure Rich over in alt.religion.eckankar is a nice guy if you meet him in
        the right circumstances, and Nathan probably is, too. Rich's dirty little
        secret, though, is that he's not always a nice guy who thinks nice thoughts
        and does nice things. It's not so much a secret to us--he has, after all,
        called one critic's mother so she would know what her son was up to, but in
        a "nice" way, of course. His problem is, he doesn't know how much he sounds
        like your average stalker when he writes posts about it. If he were to
        examine his practice, he would see that he's not always so nice, even
        though he tries to fool himself by saying he's doing it in a "nice" way.
        The teachings of Eckankar, as I practiced them and as I've seen them being
        practiced by other Eckists (both in Eckankar and in a.r.e), are such that
        one is encouraged not to examine their negative thoughts and behaviors; so
        perhaps Rich doesn't think he has any negative thoughts or behaviors.

        It is so ironic that all of these angry thoughts and doubts fester
        somewhere in the background, unresolved because they're never addressed;
        all the while Eckists think they're getting over them, because to face up
        to them would mean being overcome by them.

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
        http://auctions.yahoo.com/
      • Hawksblood2@aol.com
        just a short note. Eckist think that Jesus is only a third now. And they think they are higher. Really. Eckist are afraid to get karma from someone in trouble.
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 25, 2001
          just a short note. Eckist think that Jesus is only a third now. And they think they are higher. Really. Eckist are afraid to get karma from someone in trouble. They will hid from the truth by saying children desereve what they get like all the starving in the world. Love and light more later.
        • colleenmft@yahoo.com
          I finally found my way over here, after having my experience on ARE.This site will probably be much more compatible. I ll see how I can jump in. Colleen ... Hi
          Message 4 of 8 , May 25, 2001
            I finally found my way over here, after having my experience on
            ARE.This site will probably be much more compatible. I'll see how I
            can jump in.
            Colleen


            ---------------

            Hi Colleen --

            I'm popping in here to add a "welcome" instead of writing
            a separate post.

            Welcome! I think you can add a lot here in the areas of both
            the cult's beginnings, since you were there when Twitch was just
            starting out, and giving a good perspective years later on the dynaamics of the cult & stuff.

            Hugs,

            Sharon
          • tarryrob@yahoo.ca
            Hi Colleen! Welcome aboard! You ll find the waters here a lot less hostile than at ARE. You ve done some great posts there. I look forward to your insights.
            Message 5 of 8 , May 26, 2001
              Hi Colleen!

              Welcome aboard! You'll find the waters here a lot less hostile than
              at ARE. You've done some great posts there. I look forward to your
              insights.

              have a great one


              tarryrob






              --- In eckankartruth@y..., colleenmft@y... wrote:
              > I finally found my way over here, after having my experience on
              > ARE.This site will probably be much more compatible. I'll see how I
              > can jump in.
              > Colleen
              >
              >
              > ---------------
              >
              > Hi Colleen --
              >
              > I'm popping in here to add a "welcome" instead of writing
              > a separate post.
              >
              > Welcome! I think you can add a lot here in the areas of both
              > the cult's beginnings, since you were there when Twitch was just
              > starting out, and giving a good perspective years later on the
              dynaamics of the cult & stuff.
              >
              > Hugs,
              >
              > Sharon
            • al_radzik@yahoo.com
              Hi Colleen... I do believe you gave a.r.e. a good jolt. It is. of course, true to form how they dodge direct questions; negate and dismiss the first hand
              Message 6 of 8 , May 26, 2001
                Hi Colleen...
                I do believe you gave a.r.e. a good jolt. It is. of course, true to
                form how they dodge direct questions; negate and dismiss the first
                hand account of a veteran "Eckist's" experience with Paul Twitchell's
                Eckankar; and denigrate, debase, and assassinate your character...all
                for the uncomfortable fact that you posted that Jerry Mulvin is a
                convicted sex offender and was at one time a High Initiate in the
                Eckankar Organization. As it were, I do not believe Eckankar and
                Mulvin's pedophilic tendencies are a cause and effect relationship.
                It is interesting and thought provoking however, that the path that
                purports itself to be the highest road to God. would bestow upon its
                most avid and concientious followers, initiations that represent,
                outwardly and implicitly inwardly, a level of spiritual attainment to
                such a person who demonstrates one of the most despicable acts of
                sexual deviation.
                Does not Eckankar's "masters" have a system of checks and balances
                that disallows this? One would think that with all the soul
                travelling going on and Fubbi Quantas and Rebazar Tarsky in charge of
                souls getting to the Ocean Of Love And Mercy, someone would "nudge"
                Harji and say "Hey, watch out for this guy"??????????????

                Alfie

                PS: I have to laugh at cher who at some point chastised you for
                invading Mulvin's "privacy" by publishing the Arizona Sex Offenders
                Website. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it the Oasis Committee
                who likes to search the PUBLIC Internet far and wide for ANY tidbits
                on detractors; cut and paste out of context; and build a profile
                against anyone who has the balls to speak out against the lie we have
                all come to know as Eckankar??

                --- In eckankartruth@y..., colleenmft@y... wrote:
                > I finally found my way over here, after having my experience on
                > ARE.This site will probably be much more compatible. I'll see how I
                > can jump in.
                > Colleen
                >
                >
                > ---------------
                >
                > Hi Colleen --
                >
                > I'm popping in here to add a "welcome" instead of writing
                > a separate post.
                >
                > Welcome! I think you can add a lot here in the areas of both
                > the cult's beginnings, since you were there when Twitch was just
                > starting out, and giving a good perspective years later on the
                dynaamics of the cult & stuff.
                >
                > Hugs,
                >
                > Sharon
              • seraphim279@yahoo.com
                ... ....and Larry blunders in with mustard on his t-shirt.... Howdy-Doody Colleen! Just jump in feet first... it s been no-holds barred here lately.....
                Message 7 of 8 , May 26, 2001
                  --- In eckankartruth@y..., colleenmft@y... wrote:
                  > I finally found my way over here, after having my experience on
                  > ARE.This site will probably be much more compatible. I'll see how I
                  > can jump in.
                  > Colleen
                  >
                  ....and Larry blunders in with mustard on his t-shirt....

                  Howdy-Doody Colleen! Just jump in feet first... it's been
                  no-holds barred here lately..... coooooolllll! :D
                  Good to see you here!
                  -Larry
                • brighttigress
                  Hi Everyone!! Got a private email this morning (have patience - I m working on the reply!) asking if ET were dead (or words to that effect) - well, if
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 26, 2002
                    Hi Everyone!!

                    Got a private email this morning (have patience - I'm working on the reply!) asking if ET were "dead" (or words to that effect) - well, if anyone feels like posting, please post!!

                    So, I guess since this is "my" forum, I'm supposed to keep it hopping or something. Well <giggle> I just don't feel like posting anything right now! Which is sort of too bad, since I've been having such a lot of just absolutely wonderful happy & thankful thoughts I'd like to share! And...I'd *love* to chat & share the newest delight of my life - the Maine Coon Cat I've *always* wanted, who recently magically appeared in my life!

                    But...I just don't feel like it. In a "good" way, actually!!

                    Okay - just one "quickie" that had me ROFLMAO!! Sweetie is still being "trained" and is still looking at Spike (the cockatiel) the way I look at chocolate ice cream. (except "Death by Chocolate", which is *way* too much, especially in summer!) Today's "training session" (while Days of Our Lives is on - and satellite TV is *so* wonderful because us East Coast people can pick it up three hours later!) was hilarious. Spike was walking around on the glass-topped coffee table, while Sweetie crouched under it, looking upwards.

                    Well...after awhile Spike perched on the edge of the table, with his tail hanging over. Sweetie pounced, and at the same time I whacked the floor loudly with the flyswatter and yelled "NO!!!!"

                    We'll see what happens! When someone's home, Spike is let out of his cage (he screeches if you don't!) and he "trained" the other critters ages ago. They're scared to death of him. <ggg> What's especially funny is the way Sweetie & Spike mirror each other, stalking, watching, waiting for the right moment to attack...

                    Well, okay now, I'll some cultstuffduty here...actually, for quite awhile I've been thinking what I should do is re-post good stuff from a.r.e. here, because not everyone frequents the cesspool (can't blame 'em!) but for the time being, I ran across a good one over at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomofmind that was, not surprisingly, also applicable to e-kult.

                    You know, I think it's a big help to not go from the eckanbox to the execkanbox. Some may have a tendency to carry over the self-absorption we get in the cult, which may be from one extreme to the other (underserving of cult member status to arrogant high-holey-hypocrital-fundie-fanatic-eckthug type), and I found it quite helpful to learn that my experience wasn't really that "important" or earth-shattering, or whatever - like "reverse-ecky" - but it was an experience that is common to "exes" in a multitude of cults.

                    Well...here's the repost!

                    -------------------------------

                    Message: 2
                    Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 17:50:00 -0700 (PDT)
                    From: Boz Martyn <bozmartyn_1@...>
                    Subject: Quotes from THE GURU PAPERS about A Course In Miracles

                    A friend sent along these quotes about ACIM from the
                    book THE GURU PAPERS: The Masks of Authoritarian
                    Power. I'd never read them before, but they express
                    perfectly with what I've come to believe about the
                    Course.

                    >>
                    What is not noteworthy about the Course is its
                    worldview, which is not essentially new, but a mixture
                    of Eastern mysticism with Christian love and
                    forgiveness. Of more interest to us is its claim of
                    not being authoritarian."

                    "Daily repetition of the lessons is said to eventually
                    bring forth one's own 'Internal Teacher' which in
                    turn, without any external authorities, will lead one
                    to truth. It is assumed that everyone's Inner Teacher
                    will say pretty much the same thing as the channeled
                    voice of the Course. This claim is worth examining
                    because under the guise of presenting objective truth
                    that any seeker can find, what is actually going on is
                    the age-old ploy of authoritarian indoctrination: A
                    worldview is presented by an unchallengeable authority
                    as the truth to be found. Then practices are given
                    that reprogram and condition the mind to that
                    viewpoint."

                    "The Course is but another revealed (by an
                    unchallengeable authority) renunciate ideology that
                    separates the spiritual from the mundane, the pure
                    from the impure, the selfless from the self-centered.
                    It says listen to your own voice, but programs what
                    your voice will say by taking away the validity of
                    experience, reason, thoughts, and disapproved of
                    emotions. Like gurus, it then fills the vacuum it
                    creates with its own renunciate worldview offering the
                    same coin of eternal bliss. Nothing could be more
                    authoritarian, for who could argue against a
                    disembodied spirit with the credentials of a
                    traditional God?"

                    "When challenged, adherents often cavalierly reply,
                    'Do the lessons and you'll see for yourself. Besides,
                    you can't know the Course or criticize it until you
                    try it.' From our perspective, this confidence merely
                    shows that those willing to be programmed get
                    programmed."
                    >>


                    THE GURU PAPERS reviewed
                    - at Cultic Studies Journal from the AFF: Joel Kramer
                    and Diana Alstad
                    http://www.csj.org/pub_csj/csjbookreview/csjbkrev112guru.htm
                    - at ex-premie.org:
                    http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/gp_quotes.htm
                    -at Resources for Independent Thinking
                    http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/gp_quotes.htm
                    - at Fellowship for Intentional Communities
                    http://store.ic.org/products/guru-papers.html
                    - at Amazon.com, w/ purchase info:
                    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1883319005/102-3582235-7803315

                    - Boz

                    -----------------------------------

                    Freedom of Mind, BTW, is a public, open group. As I mention in my "welcome" letter, I also highly recommend a private forum for ex=members of all cults: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/excultsupport
                    - and of course, Colleen's "Execkankar" yahoo forum. And also, if you haven't checked out the bookmarks & files sections, you may have missed something!

                    Gotta run!!

                    Enjoy Summer Hugs!!!

                    Sharon
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