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Re: Fallen Eckists !

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  • one_god_to_many
    I was born a christian, am an Eckist, and am deciding where I stand. Since I belive Soul is Eternal, this is not a decision that needs to be rushed. I have
    Message 1 of 46 , Aug 4, 2003
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      I was born a christian, am an Eckist, and am deciding where I
      stand. Since I belive Soul is Eternal, this is not a decision that
      needs to be rushed. I have not been offically involved in Eckankar
      for some time.

      But I think it can be damaging to simply remove something without
      replacing it with something equal or better. Some of the Eck
      teachings I agree with and enjoy, yet I also have some serious
      doubts and questions.

      When I recently started to play with computers and discovered these
      news groups, they were a god send for me. I gave up Christianity and
      joined Eckankar only to find that I am back where I started. I'm
      not going to quite Eckankar and join another group just to end up in
      the same position again.

      But I have not really been envolved in Eckankar for around two
      years. Right now I am sitting on the side lines. " Checking out
      other options. "




      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
      wrote:
      > Thank you for your comments. You'll have to find your own
      answers,
      > as I certainly am not posing as a teacher to you or anyone else.
      > Are you a Christian? An eckist? Have you recently left
      eckankar?
      > Or, are you considering leaving it?
      >
      > Colleen
      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "one_god_to_many"
      > <one_god_to_many@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > What you are saying goes straight to the point which is good.
      Yet
      > > trying to achieve awareness or whatever it is best called on
      your
      > > own can be misleading. How do you know that you are not
      deluding
      > > yourself.
      > >
      > >
      > > Jesus, Budda and the others, how did they do it. They must have
      > > followed some system even if they later out grew it. They had to
      > > start somewhere. Did they leave their groups thinking the same
      as
      > > you about Eckankar.
      > >
      > > Are you one of the false teachers Jesus warned us about. Am I
      to
      > > live my life afraid of religions, Cults, and others group only
      to
      > > find out at the end I could not do it on my own.
      > >
      > > There must be some sign posts that point the way.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "colleenmft"
      > <colleenmft@y...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > The rationalization you restated as to why those who worked
      hard
      > > to
      > > > start eckankar out and have now left the org speaks to the
      heart
      > > of
      > > > the cult, in my opinion. Twitchell/Gross/Klemp and "
      trainees"
      > > will
      > > > blame the individual who disagrees or quits eckankar rather
      than
      > > the
      > > > org...that's a classic sign of a cult. That there is
      > > > no "graduation" in eckankar is another clear sign of a cult,
      in
      > my
      > > > experience. The only way out, according to the dogma that
      > > eckankar
      > > > puts out, is to leave eckankar because of problems one has.
      Did
      > > > anyone tell us when we began eckankar of this side of it?
      > No...my
      > > > experience is that we were given the message that "in my soul
      I
      > am
      > > > free", and all the individual choice, etc., stuff. Are the
      > > > contradictory and threatening messages of
      Twitchell/Gross/Klemp
      > > > under the guise of "secret teachings" attempted to be hidden
      > from
      > > > the "neophyte" until he/she was/is "hooked?"
      > > >
      > > > Colleen
      > > >
      > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "one_god_to_many"
      > > > <one_god_to_many@y...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I was talking to and Eck friend, and I asked why so many
      > higher
      > > > > initiates, that had been hand picked by Paul Twitchell
      himself
      > > > seem
      > > > > to have quite Eckankar.
      > > > >
      > > > > I was told that when Eckankar was started it was neccessary
      to
      > > > speed
      > > > > up the initiations, in order to develope a base on which to
      > > build.
      > > > > The result of these faster initiation was that the
      individuals
      > > > found
      > > > > themselves forced to deal with a level of energy they could
      > not
      > > > > understand nor handle.
      > > > >
      > > > > This led to these people, not appreaciating what they had
      been
      > > > given.
      > > > > As a result, todays initiations age given more slowly and
      only
      > > > after
      > > > > one is able to channel the level of energy he will be given.
      > > > >
      > > > > Are people of today more aware and adaptable than the
      original
      > > > > Chelas.
      > > > >
      > > > > For those of you who claim to Paul's Students , do you think
      > > that
      > > > now
      > > > > you have opened up enough to be able to face what I was told
      > you
      > > > > could not the first time around.
      > > > >
      > > > > What would you do differently if you took the initiation
      now ?
    • swallow472000
      ... different name ... certainly ... for cash, ... group. ... Yeah it would be a way out of the the hole they dug themselves into...a way to cover their
      Message 46 of 46 , Aug 7, 2003
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        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <broker84@c...>
        wrote:
        > WOW! What a great idea! Eckankar starting a group under a
        different name
        > to milk ex-members of cash under the guise of spirituality! That
        certainly
        > would be a Yin - Yang situation.
        >
        > I might even have a little more respect of the org if they did that!
        >
        > But its sure rings true to me that if they could create eckankar
        for cash,
        > then they could build an anti-eck group as well.
        >
        > I won't be buying in however. To either group or any spiritual
        group.
        >
        > Sword
        >
        >

        Yeah it would be a way out of the the hole they dug
        themselves into...a way to cover their ass...Declare the age of the
        guru finished...get in first and start anew with another set of
        rules...rules without a godman...without twitch spin spin...gross
        gook and klemp dribble. Just send the godman underground...sack the
        middleman and keep the chela -dollars flowing with a new kind of
        enquirer...sort of a we will show you how to do it yourself path a
        DIY spirituality...makes sense. But I dont believe they are that
        creative,that clever...but then they might just latch onto it and
        jump on the DIY bandwagon...It might be a way out for them...but did
        they set it up????
        jimmi

        ps I just realized its all ready been done...thats what deepak
        chopra and others have been doing for
        years.







        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
        > To: <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:53 AM
        > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Fallen Eckists !
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Sharon,
        > > Welcome Back! Although I truly understand your need for a break.
        > >
        > > Excellent comments you made, I might add. The book could be
        pushed
        > > by eckankar "underground" to get some extra cash.
        > >
        > > Has anyone here ever met the author? I haven't ever heard of him
        > > before.
        > >
        > > Colleen
        > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon"
        <brighttigress@y...>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi Paul & everyone -
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Well, I'd like to thank everyone for "missing" me, but not
        > > really. I
        > > > just don't feel like posting lately. I'm sort of on vacation.
        > > And I
        > > > think I've frequently expressed my feelings that a day without
        eck
        > > is
        > > > like a day without pubic lice. <ggg>
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I heard that "going underground" stuff years ago, when I was
        still
        > > a
        > > > member. Isn't that silly? Good grief, they just don't realize
        > > how
        > > > totally insignificant e-kult is, in the great cosmic plan. I
        > > remember
        > > > back when I first got mixed up in it, reading some of Twitch's
        > > > paranoid rantings about persecution, and even though at the
        time I
        > > > believed I'd found "The Truth" I though good grief, why would
        > > anyone
        > > > want to bother "persecuting" a little "spiritual path"?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Well, I didn't realize that it's simply another cultic tactic
        > > Twitch
        > > > used to con people - that "chosen people" "us vs. them"
        mentality,
        > > > something frequently used by cults to control members & stroke
        > > their
        > > > egos.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > At my last cult seminar in 1998, at the end of Klemp's satellite
        > > talk,
        > > > he looked into the camera with a weird expression and said
        > > something
        > > > about how we should be thankful to be together at the seminar,
        > > since
        > > > it might not always be possible. Well...because he said this so
        > > > "weird" I asked some others what he meant by it, and the
        responses
        > > I
        > > > got ranged from the "going underground" bullshit to the even
        > > sillier
        > > > thought that e-kult was going to get so big, no city would be
        able
        > > to
        > > > handle the great convention crowds. <ggg>
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Anyway, I thought your prediction about the demise of the cult
        > > very
        > > > interesting, and very likely. And you know, there are infinite
        > > > possibilities - and I honestly wondered if the behind-the-scenes
        > > stuff
        > > > with Johnson's book, etc., is as he presented it. I think the
        > > cult
        > > > isn't doing as well as it would like people to believe. And I
        > > think
        > > > those who profit from it are concerned, and want to protect
        their
        > > > little cash cow. But, thanks to the internet and the fact that
        e-
        > > kult
        > > > today doesn't offer anything "unique", their membership figures
        > > are
        > > > probably getting worse and worse. For example, shortly after I
        > > left I
        > > > joined a Delphi cult discussion group, and was "welcomed" with a
        > > form
        > > > letter telling me that MN said hotels were getting unwilling to
        > > host
        > > > cult seminars because members weren't spending enough money.
        > > Which is
        > > > absolute bullshit!! And...look at the changes in the seminars -
        > > fewer
        > > > of them, and heavier on the recruiting training. I'd say
        probably
        > > the
        > > > most cult growth is found in the "poorer" countries in the
        world,
        > > > where people are more likely to be conned since there's not as
        > > much
        > > > internet access, but they also can't afford to pay full
        membership
        > > > price. It's $50 a year in other countries, and Klemp has
        > > mentioned
        > > > how lots of African members can't afford their memberships.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > So, although the "experiences" Johnson states in his book are
        > > quite
        > > > plausible, isn't it also possible that MN is secretly backing
        him
        > > on
        > > > this, and investing in this new thing - hey, Johnson's got great
        > > plans
        > > > for non-eckcenters, etc.! Maybe Klemp is fed up & wants to
        > > quit? Or
        > > > maybe the puppetmasters are realizing they're in trouble, and
        > > maybe
        > > > Klemp is even more nutsy than people are allowed to see?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > There's nothing new in his book, really - except the personal
        > > > experience of Johnson & that Graham guy getting "demoted"
        without
        > > any
        > > > guidance, caring, etc.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I think perhaps Johnson needed more "recovery" time - as far as
        > > I'm
        > > > concerned, he's still an eckist but has dumped the labels & the
        > > > membership card. What he's trying to start, well...I think if
        he
        > > took
        > > > a good, honest look at himself, very deeply, he'd re-think what
        > > he's
        > > > attempting to do. In fact, there's a quote in his book that
        > > applies,
        > > > just don't feel like looking it up right now.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Oh, Paul - glad your tests came out okay, but should they ever
        > > *not*
        > > > be okay, don't get too bummed out about it. Cancer isn't the
        > > > automatic death sentence it used to be, and chemo & radiation
        > > aren't
        > > > necessarily as awful as they are on TV movies. I know many
        cancer
        > > > "survivors", and also a few who didn't - either way, the reality
        > > of
        > > > both aren't necessarily as awful as what we imagine. Root
        canals
        > > > aren't pleasant, either - but you know, they've improved them
        over
        > > the
        > > > years. After my first one roughly 30 years ago, I decided if I
        > > ever
        > > > needed another one, I'd shoot myself first! <gg> Oh - I think
        > > you
        > > > oughtta rethink getting a gun, although that's a typical male
        > > > reaction. We females are more practical, and realize that's a
        > > messy
        > > > way to go, and someone will have to clean up the mess.
        > > <gg>
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Well...I gotta go!
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Love & Hugs,
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Sharon
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
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