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Re: [eckankartruth] Fallen Eckists !

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  • Paul Olson
    Geez, I forgot completely about that one! I wrote better back then I guess....Oh well, age and gravity I guess.... Sword ... From: To:
    Message 1 of 46 , Jul 31, 2003
      Geez, I forgot completely about that one! I wrote better back then I
      guess....Oh well, age and gravity I guess....

      Sword


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <samorez@...>
      To: <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [eckankartruth] Fallen Eckists !


      > In a message dated 7/30/2003 2:57:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      > one_god_to_many@... writes:
      >
      > > I was talking to and Eck friend, and I asked why so many higher
      > > initiates, that had been hand picked by Paul Twitchell himself seem
      > > to have quite Eckankar.
      > >
      > > I was told that when Eckankar was started it was neccessary to speed
      > > up the initiations, in order to develope a base on which to build.
      > > The result of these faster initiation was that the individuals found
      > > themselves forced to deal with a level of energy they could not
      > > understand nor handle.
      > >
      > > This led to these people, not appreaciating what they had been given.
      > > As a result, todays initiations age given more slowly and only after
      > > one is able to channel the level of energy he will be given.
      > >
      > > Are people of today more aware and adaptable than the original
      > > Chelas.
      > >
      > > For those of you who claim to Paul's Students , do you think that now
      > > you have opened up enough to be able to face what I was told you
      > > could not the first time around.
      > >
      > > What would you do differently if you took the initiation now ?
      > >
      > >
      >
      > Sword, do you remember posting this on a.r.e.? I thought it was so good, I
      > kept it. I think it answers most of the above questions quite well.
      >
      > Subject: Cheap Initiations?
      > From: "Sworddancer" <A
      HREF="mailto:broker84@...">broker84@...</A>
      > Date: 1/9/02 3:49 PM Pacific Standard Time
      > Message-id: <cG4%7.114978$Wd.35905091@...>
      >
      > I was wondering.
      >
      > In eckankars early days, if you recieved the 5th initiation you were
      granted
      > the power to initiate through the 4th circle, and were entrusted with all
      > the responsibilities that ESA's have today. They didn't have worship
      > services back then but a 5th initiate could perform all the eck ceremonies
      > and could pretty much lead any group activity that eckankar had too offer.
      > There was no need for a Mahdis ID Card....Or any "ECK Initiator" card or
      ESA
      > Card.
      >
      > Along comes Sri Harold.....He says that the high initiates of today are
      more
      > evolved than the high initiates of yesterday. Yet he does not give them
      the
      > same authority, responsibility, or trust as his predessers gave their high
      > initiates.....
      >
      > So does this mean that the high initiates of today are less empowered?
      Does
      > it mean that they are less spiritually unfolded? Does it mean that the
      > h.i's of today need more training before they can perform the same tasks
      > that their predessors did? Hmmmmm Doesn't make a lot of sence to me.
      >
      > Unless of course, there are so many high initiates today that it becomes
      > necessary to promote them in degrees so that they have something to look
      > foreward too......If they all had all the authority I imagine that
      eckakanr
      > would get pretty top heavy with high initiates.....what with not anywhere
      > near as many people joining eckankar, far less staying around for 14-20
      > years to get the 5th.....compared with the thousands of h.i's that are out
      > there today....
      >
      > I recall a discussion with a friend back in the mid-80's. She jokingly
      told
      > me that in her area that there was an Area Mahdis, an Arahata, and the
      Area
      > Chela.....she was the chela.
      >
      > Also, if the H.I's of yesterday were less unfolded and really weren't
      ready
      > to do the initiations, does this mean that the initiations that were
      granted
      > in the past were done through unclear or polluted channels....does this
      mean
      > that Sri Harold himself was initiated by questionable people who really
      > weren't properly trained to perform the duty? And if so, are Sir Harolds
      > initiations valid? And if not, Are the initiations granted by him worth
      the
      > spit on the sidewalk?
      >
      > I wonder.....
      >
      > It really doesn't matter to me as I have left all this behind. I feel
      that
      > eckankars initiations are a hokey attempt to keep the students in line and
      > keep them towing the company rope, so to speak.
      >
      > Until someone can give me documented historical proof of Pauls little band
      > called the masters of the vairagi, I will see this as a fabrication, just
      as
      > pauls books were often fabricated.
      >
      > So with no vairagi masters, there are no eck masters...just guys who label
      > themselves as such, and boards of directors who select them.
      >
      > WIth no true masters, there is no true connection with the eck.......Thus
      no
      > true initiation........
      >
      > Thus the whole of eckankar is hogwash.
      >
      > Just curious.
      >
      > End quote.
      >
      > Personally, my 5th initiation from Patti Simpson (at the behest of Gail,
      no
      > less) was remarkably disappointing. No bells, no whistles. Just org
      status,
      > false humility and the unspoken willingness to work hard for Eckankar and
      Sunasu
      > Vitamins.
      >
      > Initiation? Why, it's just those Ruby Slippers you've had on all along.
      >
      > Perhaps there is the possibility of some form of transmission from an
      > advanced soul. But one can hardly pass on what they don't have, nes pa? In
      my
      > experience, these souls are rare and rarely found. They certainly don't
      advertise or
      > promote and they most certainly don't accept just any warm body with the
      > proper amount of money in their pocket.
      >
      > Orez
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • swallow472000
      ... different name ... certainly ... for cash, ... group. ... Yeah it would be a way out of the the hole they dug themselves into...a way to cover their
      Message 46 of 46 , Aug 7, 2003
        --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Olson" <broker84@c...>
        wrote:
        > WOW! What a great idea! Eckankar starting a group under a
        different name
        > to milk ex-members of cash under the guise of spirituality! That
        certainly
        > would be a Yin - Yang situation.
        >
        > I might even have a little more respect of the org if they did that!
        >
        > But its sure rings true to me that if they could create eckankar
        for cash,
        > then they could build an anti-eck group as well.
        >
        > I won't be buying in however. To either group or any spiritual
        group.
        >
        > Sword
        >
        >

        Yeah it would be a way out of the the hole they dug
        themselves into...a way to cover their ass...Declare the age of the
        guru finished...get in first and start anew with another set of
        rules...rules without a godman...without twitch spin spin...gross
        gook and klemp dribble. Just send the godman underground...sack the
        middleman and keep the chela -dollars flowing with a new kind of
        enquirer...sort of a we will show you how to do it yourself path a
        DIY spirituality...makes sense. But I dont believe they are that
        creative,that clever...but then they might just latch onto it and
        jump on the DIY bandwagon...It might be a way out for them...but did
        they set it up????
        jimmi

        ps I just realized its all ready been done...thats what deepak
        chopra and others have been doing for
        years.







        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...>
        > To: <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:53 AM
        > Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Fallen Eckists !
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Sharon,
        > > Welcome Back! Although I truly understand your need for a break.
        > >
        > > Excellent comments you made, I might add. The book could be
        pushed
        > > by eckankar "underground" to get some extra cash.
        > >
        > > Has anyone here ever met the author? I haven't ever heard of him
        > > before.
        > >
        > > Colleen
        > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon"
        <brighttigress@y...>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi Paul & everyone -
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Well, I'd like to thank everyone for "missing" me, but not
        > > really. I
        > > > just don't feel like posting lately. I'm sort of on vacation.
        > > And I
        > > > think I've frequently expressed my feelings that a day without
        eck
        > > is
        > > > like a day without pubic lice. <ggg>
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I heard that "going underground" stuff years ago, when I was
        still
        > > a
        > > > member. Isn't that silly? Good grief, they just don't realize
        > > how
        > > > totally insignificant e-kult is, in the great cosmic plan. I
        > > remember
        > > > back when I first got mixed up in it, reading some of Twitch's
        > > > paranoid rantings about persecution, and even though at the
        time I
        > > > believed I'd found "The Truth" I though good grief, why would
        > > anyone
        > > > want to bother "persecuting" a little "spiritual path"?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Well, I didn't realize that it's simply another cultic tactic
        > > Twitch
        > > > used to con people - that "chosen people" "us vs. them"
        mentality,
        > > > something frequently used by cults to control members & stroke
        > > their
        > > > egos.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > At my last cult seminar in 1998, at the end of Klemp's satellite
        > > talk,
        > > > he looked into the camera with a weird expression and said
        > > something
        > > > about how we should be thankful to be together at the seminar,
        > > since
        > > > it might not always be possible. Well...because he said this so
        > > > "weird" I asked some others what he meant by it, and the
        responses
        > > I
        > > > got ranged from the "going underground" bullshit to the even
        > > sillier
        > > > thought that e-kult was going to get so big, no city would be
        able
        > > to
        > > > handle the great convention crowds. <ggg>
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Anyway, I thought your prediction about the demise of the cult
        > > very
        > > > interesting, and very likely. And you know, there are infinite
        > > > possibilities - and I honestly wondered if the behind-the-scenes
        > > stuff
        > > > with Johnson's book, etc., is as he presented it. I think the
        > > cult
        > > > isn't doing as well as it would like people to believe. And I
        > > think
        > > > those who profit from it are concerned, and want to protect
        their
        > > > little cash cow. But, thanks to the internet and the fact that
        e-
        > > kult
        > > > today doesn't offer anything "unique", their membership figures
        > > are
        > > > probably getting worse and worse. For example, shortly after I
        > > left I
        > > > joined a Delphi cult discussion group, and was "welcomed" with a
        > > form
        > > > letter telling me that MN said hotels were getting unwilling to
        > > host
        > > > cult seminars because members weren't spending enough money.
        > > Which is
        > > > absolute bullshit!! And...look at the changes in the seminars -
        > > fewer
        > > > of them, and heavier on the recruiting training. I'd say
        probably
        > > the
        > > > most cult growth is found in the "poorer" countries in the
        world,
        > > > where people are more likely to be conned since there's not as
        > > much
        > > > internet access, but they also can't afford to pay full
        membership
        > > > price. It's $50 a year in other countries, and Klemp has
        > > mentioned
        > > > how lots of African members can't afford their memberships.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > So, although the "experiences" Johnson states in his book are
        > > quite
        > > > plausible, isn't it also possible that MN is secretly backing
        him
        > > on
        > > > this, and investing in this new thing - hey, Johnson's got great
        > > plans
        > > > for non-eckcenters, etc.! Maybe Klemp is fed up & wants to
        > > quit? Or
        > > > maybe the puppetmasters are realizing they're in trouble, and
        > > maybe
        > > > Klemp is even more nutsy than people are allowed to see?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > There's nothing new in his book, really - except the personal
        > > > experience of Johnson & that Graham guy getting "demoted"
        without
        > > any
        > > > guidance, caring, etc.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I think perhaps Johnson needed more "recovery" time - as far as
        > > I'm
        > > > concerned, he's still an eckist but has dumped the labels & the
        > > > membership card. What he's trying to start, well...I think if
        he
        > > took
        > > > a good, honest look at himself, very deeply, he'd re-think what
        > > he's
        > > > attempting to do. In fact, there's a quote in his book that
        > > applies,
        > > > just don't feel like looking it up right now.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Oh, Paul - glad your tests came out okay, but should they ever
        > > *not*
        > > > be okay, don't get too bummed out about it. Cancer isn't the
        > > > automatic death sentence it used to be, and chemo & radiation
        > > aren't
        > > > necessarily as awful as they are on TV movies. I know many
        cancer
        > > > "survivors", and also a few who didn't - either way, the reality
        > > of
        > > > both aren't necessarily as awful as what we imagine. Root
        canals
        > > > aren't pleasant, either - but you know, they've improved them
        over
        > > the
        > > > years. After my first one roughly 30 years ago, I decided if I
        > > ever
        > > > needed another one, I'd shoot myself first! <gg> Oh - I think
        > > you
        > > > oughtta rethink getting a gun, although that's a typical male
        > > > reaction. We females are more practical, and realize that's a
        > > messy
        > > > way to go, and someone will have to clean up the mess.
        > > <gg>
        > > >
        > >
        > > > Well...I gotta go!
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Love & Hugs,
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Sharon
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
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