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Re: [eckankartruth] Re: Justifying To Others/Sharon

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  • Gloria Jean
    Sharon, I really enjoyed your response to this post. (now deleted in this response) Tell me, why is it that you are sick of the word spritual? (just
    Message 1 of 1 , May 10, 2003
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      I really enjoyed your response to this post. (now
      deleted in this response)

      Tell me, why is it that you are sick of the word "spritual?"
      (just curious.)

      (I agree that It is way over-used as people try
      to escape a cult or a religion...and they look for another word
      to describe themselves so as not to be percieved
      as a godless heathen....I've been there. LOL )

      I think your are a very balanced person. I know
      what you mean about all that gushing luvy duvy stuff.

      So many people shove that around and much of it is
      totally insincere, it makes me want to puke too.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Sharon
      To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 7:01 PM
      Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: Justifying To Others

      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "one_god_to_many"
      <one_god_to_many@y...> wrote:


      > Over the last couple of months I have been watching the tendency I

      > have to justifiy my self to others, both to Eckists and Ex-Eckists

      > alike. And I see what a mistake it is.


      I'm glad you see this. But you know, sometimes there's a fine line
      between trying to justify yourself to others, and simply explaining
      something a little further which others may misunderstand, if you care
      to do this.

      > Others will only support and agree with you if your opinion is the

      > same as theirs. Since I decided to step away from Eckankar, Eckists

      > that I had known for some time decided to stop talking to me because

      > they were afraid I would influence them to do the same.


      That's an experience many former members have. When they leave the
      cult, it turns out that people they thought were their friends,
      weren't. And that's a shame - and you know, it's something I never
      really expected to see when I left the cult. For me personally it
      wasn't an issue, because I didn't really "hang out" with other cult
      members - there weren't that many around, and I already had a full &
      busy life. It wasn't even that easy for me to get to eckthings, since
      my son was young & they were usually on school nights, and at least
      1/2 hour away. But I've learned since then that the "social" aspects
      of the cult were a major part in other former members' lives - and
      they're also a big part of many current members' lives, too.

      The cult *encourages* eckists to hang out with each other, and it's
      sort of a "natural" thing for people with similar beliefs to sort of
      gather together. In a closed-mind cult like eckankar, even though
      they don't exactly have ashrams & stuff, the psychological isolation
      is still similar, as it the "bonding" with other cult members.

      > Ex-Eckists that I tried to get togeather with refused because I

      > not join in their Eck bashing routine.

      You know, I looked back on some of your previous posts, looking
      objectively, and my impression is the same - that you sort of arrived
      with a bit of an "attitude", a sort of chip in your shoulder,
      expecting that there was some kind of list of requirements for being a
      former member, and you had to sign in blood or something.

      Personally, I reacted to what you expressed about this with basically
      boredom. It sounded too "eckie" and I have no interest in dealing
      with it. It's a favorite subject over at a.r.e., where the eckthugs
      are incapable of seeing anything indicating *free thinking* - and they
      accuse all former members of being Branch Lane Davidians or something.

      I *might* start blindly following David Lane, but so far I haven't
      seen a picture of his butt on the internet. <ggg>

      To be honest, although I don't recall if we've had any private
      conversation simply because there's too much & too many people and I
      don't have the storage space to save it all and certainly can't
      remember everyone & everything, I don't know if anything I said
      privately insulted you. However, I know that when a few people have
      written to me, I've been honest and told them I thought they needed
      more de-programming. This is usually with people who still like to at
      least think of Twitch as some kind of "master", when he wasn't
      anything more than a shrewd little con artist-marketing expert who
      played around with the occult and religion, and used both for his own
      personal profit and emotional gratification. And, to get young chicks
      in bed.

      Anyway, I sure as hell don't know who gave you the impression that you
      had to "bash" e-kult to gain "acceptance" or something - but I'm sure
      others can tell you that sure, sometimes I've been a bit "harsh" with
      people about needing further de-programming, I have *also* told a lot
      of people look, you're under enough stress and you do NOT need to go
      to a.r.e., either to just "lurk" there, or to get involved in it. But
      I've also said publicly, I like to see other former members speak out,
      tell their stories, for the benefit of others. And...if other people
      are doing it, *I* don't have to! <ggg> I'm lazy. And...this is all

      But, I think I'm safe in saying that probably most former members
      reach just as I do at anyone who spews eckie-stuff like looking for
      the "positive" in being the members of a phony deceptive cult - it's
      "ecky" and we'd rather go barf or something.

      What I was looking for was

      > good open discussions about spiritual development.


      Well, that's not exactly the purpose of this forum. People who get
      out of a cult sometimes don't want to talk about it....and you know,
      I've said at times that I think it's a good idea to take a rest,
      because it's not uncommon for people to go from one cult to another.

      There are plenty of "spiritual" resources on the internet, or at your
      local bookstore. You might also try just "shopping around" out in
      the "real world" - for example, I went to a Buddhist thingie today.
      Not because I'm "searching" for anything, but because it looked like
      something interesting to do - there weren't any nature walks or
      anything, didn't feel like dealing with the dark pesky bugs at my
      favorite fishing hole, and I don't like hanging out at the mall or at
      bars. Can't see well enough to drive very far after dark anymore.

      > Eckists are not able to look beyond their own point of veiw and see

      > the teachings of other groups believing that only theirs is right.

      > Eckists have become so slanted in their Anti-Eck beliefs that they

      > can only rant about how Eck hurt them.


      Well, if this is your viewpoint of former members, you know - I think
      that's what you were looking for, and you got it.

      I'm thankful for other members who "ranted" NOT ABOUT HOW THE CULT

      > So where does one look for some spritual conformfort and

      > understanding.

      How about in your own heart?

      You know, I've chatted with hundreds of people in the years since I
      got out - sometimes it's other people who need this "comfort" and
      understanding, but I think of it often more as just both people who
      are chatting are sharing. When I got out, I felt like mostly I was
      going through something shitty that ultimately *I* had to resolve
      within myself, but along the way there were others who sort of held my
      hand and just patted me on the back and said "Now, now, it'll be

      With me, and I think with others I've talked to, trying to "salvage"
      something after our years in the cult wasn't really an issue. You
      evidently need to see it as something "positive". I personally don't
      feel that way about it. Any growth & knowledge I gained during my
      cult years were done by *me* and not their imaginary "mahanta" - if
      anything, the cult held me back, plus put a lot of crap into my head.

      You know, in the welcome letter I believe I recommend the
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spiritualawakening forum - whoops, I
      just checked because I recently "revised" the welcome letter, and I
      didn't put it in!!! But....it's listed in the "links" section here.
      There's lots of interesting stuff in the files & links section here,
      and it's not all "eck-bashing". Oh....sometimes the memory kicks in,
      I just remembered a long time ago I tried to start a thread on "good
      books" or something, it fizzled out.

      I gave up Christianty because I was not getting what I

      > needed, I joined Eckankar to abtain I wider point of view.

      I left

      > Eckankar because I found the converations were to limited and

      > directed only to one source, other sources were discouraged.


      Keep seeking, and ye shall find. <ggg> Hey...one thing I just
      thought of that I'd like to investigate further but haven't gotten
      around to it is Ken Wilber.

      > Trying to get together with Ex-Eckists has been equaly frustrating,

      > Ex-Eckist don't want to discuss spiritual issues, they are only

      > interested in ranting and raving about how Eck hurt or in some other

      > way damaged them.


      Well....maybe I missed something, but I've never seen all my
      conversations with other former members, public & private, as simply
      ranting and raving about the cult.

      I think you've missed something. And for whatever reason, I *do*
      think you started off with a strong anti-anti-eck attitude. <ggg>

      I'm personally a bit sick & tired of the word "spiritual", by the way.

      > Has anyone Ex-Eckist or Eckist found any form of spiritual

      > understanding or are we all wasting our time. Is anyone capable of

      > carring a converation stating what they believe and why, or has

      > everyone become so caught up in control that they can't think for

      > themselves.


      What do you mean, "we"? <ggg> I *know* I have stated previously,
      what I "believe" depends on my mood. I don't necessarily "believe in"
      anything, other than possibilities. And....to be honest, I don't
      think it's anyone's business. And personally, when people (usually
      they're current members) ask me to "recommend" something "better" - I
      think geezus, all I can say is that although I know better than to buy
      the Brooklyn Bridge again, I certainly don't know it all about the
      real estate business from just one bad experience.

      > I don't care what group one belongs to, or why. I in interested in

      > developing a better understand of myself and the world I live in. It

      > is disappointing that with so many educated, clearly intelligent

      > people both Ex-Eckist and Eckist alike that none are able to think

      > for themselves and hold a discussion.


      Maybe the rest of us don't have an emptiness in our lives that needs
      to be filled on an internet "chat" group. Maybe we're doing it, and
      not just yakking about it. Developing a better understanding of
      ourselves & the world is, I feel, a "natural" process that we're
      engaged in all the time - except when we were in the cult, "natural"
      was sort of warped & twisted & controlled.

      > If you feel that as Ex-Eckists that you are more aware or better off

      > that those still trapped in the Eck teachings, " YOU ARE WRONG ".

      > You are every bit as trapped. just read your own posts. There is not

      > idea.


      Didn't someone just post an "alien" URL? <ggg>

      Right now, to be honest, my mind is elsewhere. I've gotta transplant
      some daffodil bulbs *now* because I won't be able to find them in the
      fall - BTW, although "they" say you've gotta do it in the fall, don't
      believe it. I have quite often, over the years, dug up bulbs as soon
      as they're done blooming and move them, and they've done just fine.

      I'm also thinking about the fastest & easiest way to get a lot of baby
      catfish to put in the pond where I let Jeffrey, my turtle, loose.
      It's a gorgeous pond but doesn't have any bottom feeders, so as the
      summer progresses it gets a bit too "yukky" for swimming, plus catfish
      are my favorite "eating" fish. Anyway, although I've loved Jeffrey
      for several years (I forget when I got him, '99 I think), I was torn
      for a long time between keeping him or letting him go. My mind was
      made up when earlier this spring, he started desperately trying to
      climb out of the aquarium, especially when my daughter-in-law was
      around. And...he was "singing" to her. I figured he was horny. My
      son & I went to the pond yesterday but didn't see him - one of our
      friends said the turtles gather in one particular sunny spot only
      accessible by boat. Anyway, sometimes it's hard finding time for
      everything, but to solve the catfish problem, I think the best way is
      what my son did for many years when he was a kid - brought home jars
      of baby catfish from the pond we lived near, and we'd dump them in the
      frog tank. <ggg>

      This is funny - sort of - last time I visited my daughter, whose
      turtles have been kept on a diet of commercial food for many years, I
      commented to my youngest grandson how much Jeffrey enjoyed *live* food
      - worms & "feeder" goldfish. Well....I had to laugh, last week I was
      visiting and the kid won a goldfish at a carnival, and fed it to the
      turtles, who had *such* fun with it!! My overly-sensitive daughter &
      granddaughter were *horrified*!! My response is, cows are "cute" but
      you still eat hamburgers. I believe in being an honest and
      "conscious" carnivore.

      > I feel sorry for those still trapped in Eckankar and equaly sorry

      > those who suffer under the illusion that they have escaped. I have

      > tried on more that one occasion to talk to Ex-Eckist and found it

      > impossible.


      Hmmmm....you know, even if Orez hadn't made a smartass remark about
      the founder of "Samology" over at a.r.e. - I'd have thought maybe you
      could look into either Unity or the Unitarian Universalists or
      something. I forget the exact name.

      (Pssst....don't tell anyone, but I've run into a few ex-eckists that
      I've had problems with, too!)

      > Spiritual development can't be found in Eckankar nor can it found

      > outside Eckankar at least with " former members. " This experience

      > has been totaly disappointing on both sides.

      "Spiritual development" is inside yourself. And you know, I don't
      even like the "spiritual" label. Life is just life. I'd rather be

      Don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean it as an insult - but
      evidently you're one of those people who really needs some type of
      "group" support. I like to see people happy and "recovered" - I'd say
      99% of the time this is what happens. It would be nice maybe if more
      group "members" here jumped in and got all luvvy-duvvy everytime a new
      exie turned up, but on the other hand, well....it might be really

      Have you looked around the internet for more "spiritual" discussion
      groups? Or..."real" ones in your neighborhood? Or...maybe you'd like
      to start your own discussion group? Seriously, there are *many*
      former members right here at ET and elsewhere who just don't speak up
      or anything, so perhaps there are others who feel like you do who
      would be interested in a post-ekult spiritual discussion group.
      Also...although the book isn't out yet, Ford Johnson is evidently
      offering "something" and will be publishing stuff in the future that
      seems like something you might be interested in. See:

      Anyway...and I'm thinking again of some of your previous posts
      here...I don't know about anyone else but personally, I felt a bit
      when I first read and again re-read them, that you were still a bit
      "ecky" and I didnt' feel like really dealing with it. I have no great
      need to justify my cult years by looking for something "positive",
      anymore than, if I had been an abused, beaten spouse I would feel the
      need to rationalize it as a good learning experience or something,
      I'd just be glad to have finally woken up and gotten the hell out of
      it. And at this point in my life, and I think I've bitched & moaned
      enough about it to have made my feelings quite clear, I'd rather *NOT*
      be bothered with ANYTHING to do with eckanshit - except I feel it's
      sort of my responsibility as a human being here to take my turn
      holding up the roadsign before *others* fall into the same big hole,
      and I *do* care about other people. There are other things I'd
      rather be doing with *ALL* of my time than spending ANY of it on
      anything having to do with a totally silly dumb spacey new-age cult
      that I had the misfortune to get sucked into for a large chunk of my
      adult life.

      BTW - in one of your old posts you made the comment about how you
      chose to join the cult freely. Well....it's nice that you feel that
      way, but *I* certainly didn't, other than allowing myself to fall for
      the cultic brainwashing about how we'd always been eckies whether we
      knew it or not, etc. I admit to being stupid and gullible, and
      falling for a very shrewd con game. Which isn't a big deal, I'm human
      and make mistakes.

      Well...you take care now, hope you find what you're looking for, and I
      hope it's not another cult! Oh - why don't you just forget all this
      stuff for awhile, and take the time to enjoy the upcoming lunar
      eclipse!!! I'm really looking forward to it!!



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