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Re: More Best of A.R.E.

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  • swallow472000
    ... even ... seeing ... Peace, David Hi Ive heard so much about the cesspool A.R.E. from reading here but I cant find it...not sure I want too...but I cant
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 23 4:32 AM
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      --- In eckankartruth@y..., "David D. Rogers" <alphagator@y...> wrote:
      > --- In eckankartruth@y..., "Sharon" <brighttigress@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > For those who have even more difficulty than I do with
      > > refraining from puking after awhile at the "cesspool" and don't
      even
      > go there, sometimes you miss good and/or revealing stuff, like
      seeing
      > > the incredible way we were programmed as members, contrasting with
      > > the plain, simple clarity & freedom once we get out.
      > >
      > > Check out the thread "Klemp: Those Who Depart Are Flawed"!
      >
      > Those who depart are flawed? Oh, horrors! And I suppose that
      > ex-members are all going to die when their time comes. <G>
      >
      >
      Peace,
      David


      Hi Ive heard so much about the cesspool A.R.E. from reading
      here but I cant find it...not sure I want too...but I cant stay in
      ignorance forever...been in that state over 20 years in eckankar
      servitude. can anyone point me in the right
      direction?
      Intresting that Klemp says those who leave are flawed. If
      diamonds did'nt have flaws then they would not reflect light, they
      could not shine. Its the flaws that give individuality its unique
      beauty. It seems like Klemp wants to turn shining unique gems into
      dull glass beads. Jimmi
    • samorez@aol.com
      At the Welcome page of AOL, go to Services, then Internet, then Newsgroups. Subscribe to alt.religion.eckankar. Hold your nose and read. If you post, DO NOT
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 23 9:37 AM
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        At the Welcome page of AOL, go to Services, then Internet, then Newsgroups.
        Subscribe to alt.religion.eckankar. Hold your nose and read. If you post, DO
        NOT reveal ANY personal information about yourself unless you don't care
        about personal attacks. They will write your boss, call your mom, and send
        you viruses.

        Orez


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Randy Cable
        ... The problem is that they will claim to your boss to be a potential customer and say that your attitude toward them was so sour that they left and
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 23 2:27 PM
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          --- samorez@... wrote:
          > At the Welcome page of AOL, go to Services, then
          > Internet, then Newsgroups.
          > Subscribe to alt.religion.eckankar. Hold your nose
          > and read. If you post, DO
          > NOT reveal ANY personal information about yourself
          > unless you don't care
          > about personal attacks. They will write your boss,
          > call your mom, and send
          > you viruses.
          >
          > Orez
          >
          The problem is that "they" will claim to your boss to
          be a potential customer and say that your attitude
          toward "them" was so sour that "they" left and spent
          their enourmous amounts of money elsewhere. "They"
          will call your Mother on the phone and tell her how
          "you" had a near fatal accident and in critical
          condition in your local hospital's e.r. Never open an
          attachment from those whom you do not know.
          Randy
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >
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        • al_radzik
          ... Newsgroups. ... post, DO ... care ... and send ... I ll second that motion!! They may even talk about a drug problem you may have had several years
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 1, 2002
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            --- In eckankartruth@y..., samorez@a... wrote:
            > At the Welcome page of AOL, go to Services, then Internet, then
            Newsgroups.
            > Subscribe to alt.religion.eckankar. Hold your nose and read. If you
            post, DO
            > NOT reveal ANY personal information about yourself unless you don't
            care
            > about personal attacks. They will write your boss, call your mom,
            and send
            > you viruses.
            >
            > Orez
            >
            I'll second that motion!! <GG>
            They may even talk about a drug problem you may have had several
            years ago.
            What a collection of fuck-knuckles.

            Alf
          • broker84
            Just curious....Is masterworship some subtle form of latent homosexuality....or the need for a father figure, or just spiritual lonliness? I ve always
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 1, 2002
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              Just curious....Is masterworship some subtle form of latent homosexuality....or the need for a father figure, or just spiritual lonliness? I've always wondered why people have a tendency to look to other people instead of looking within for god? Personally, I think it boils down to feelings of loneliness and often results from a pattern of personal failure in life.....feelings of inadequacy and such......
              Any thoughts?
              Sword
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: al_radzik
              To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: October 01, 2002 10:40 AM
              Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: More Best of A.R.E.


              --- In eckankartruth@y..., samorez@a... wrote:
              > At the Welcome page of AOL, go to Services, then Internet, then
              Newsgroups.
              > Subscribe to alt.religion.eckankar. Hold your nose and read. If you
              post, DO
              > NOT reveal ANY personal information about yourself unless you don't
              care
              > about personal attacks. They will write your boss, call your mom,
              and send
              > you viruses.
              >
              > Orez
              >
              I'll second that motion!! <GG>
              They may even talk about a drug problem you may have had several
              years ago.
              What a collection of fuck-knuckles.

              Alf


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • al_radzik
              ... homosexuality....or the need for a father figure, or just spiritual lonliness? I ve always wondered why people have a tendency to look to other people
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 1, 2002
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                --- In eckankartruth@y..., "broker84" <broker84@c...> wrote:
                > Just curious....Is masterworship some subtle form of latent
                homosexuality....or the need for a father figure, or just spiritual
                lonliness? I've always wondered why people have a tendency to look
                to other people instead of looking within for god? Personally, I
                think it boils down to feelings of loneliness and often results from
                a pattern of personal failure in life.....feelings of inadequacy and
                such......
                > Any thoughts?
                > Sword
                >\> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                I think masterworship is borne from a deep lack or need of
                acceptance. As opposed to traditional worship of a deity as is in the
                Judaeo-Christian realm, it has a living "focus". All of the Eckies
                want to please Harold and want Harold to recognize them like a father
                would a good son or daughter. This feeling that Harold is "always
                with them" as he professes, exalts them above non-Eckists, feeds
                their egos and turns them into blind elitist egomaniacs. I would
                venture to say that most if not all Eckists have had low self esteem
                and replaced it with the falsehoods and lies and promises of Eckankar.


                Alf
              • samorez@aol.com
                In a message dated 10/1/2002 2:34:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... Bingo. Give the man a cigar. Orez [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 1, 2002
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                  In a message dated 10/1/2002 2:34:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                  al_radzik@... writes:


                  > I think masterworship is borne from a deep lack or need of
                  > acceptance. As opposed to traditional worship of a deity as is in the
                  > Judaeo-Christian realm, it has a living "focus". All of the Eckies
                  > want to please Harold and want Harold to recognize them like a father
                  > would a good son or daughter. This feeling that Harold is "always
                  > with them" as he professes, exalts them above non-Eckists, feeds
                  > their egos and turns them into blind elitist egomaniacs. I would
                  > venture to say that most if not all Eckists have had low self esteem
                  > and replaced it with the falsehoods and lies and promises of Eckankar.
                  >
                  >

                  Bingo. Give the man a cigar.

                  Orez


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Sharon
                  ... Not necessarily. Except at cult seminars, I *did* notice that a high percentage of the guys were, well....really wimpy!! There was one guy who looked
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 3, 2002
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                    --- In eckankartruth@y..., "broker84" <broker84@c...> wrote:
                    > Just curious....Is masterworship some subtle form of latent homosexuality....or the need for a father figure, or just spiritual lonliness? I've always wondered why people have a tendency to look to other people instead of looking within for god? Personally, I think it boils down to feelings of loneliness and often results from a pattern of personal failure in life.....feelings of inadequacy and such......
                    > Any thoughts?


                    Not necessarily. Except at cult seminars, I *did* notice that a high percentage of the guys were, well....really wimpy!! There was one guy who looked absolutely gorgeous - incredible hair!! I fantisized taking the rubber band off his ponytail......until he started talking, and I focused a bit, and there was absolutely *nothing* inside. It sort of confused me - I mean, the guy was an HI. What I picked up was....robot!!

                    I don't know about this looking to others instead of within, because to me, it was sort of reversed - I wasn't looking for anything, not seeking, when I "found". The cult came later. And, being so close to the "formless" I had to work really hard at "believing" this was Klemp being the "mahanta". Never quite "got it" and I struggled with this to the end, when I realized that Klemp was just in the way!!! So, when I left the cult - it was beautiful, like a lampshade being removed!

                    I was doing exactly what I wanted to do in life, enjoying each moment, and was very content.


                    --- In eckankartruth@y..., "al_radzik" <al_radzik@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I think masterworship is borne from a deep lack or need of
                    > acceptance.

                    Sometimes it's just lust, honeybuns!! ;o) You know how you feel when you see a busty nubile young thang at the beach? Don't you get down on your knees? <ggg>

                    ROFLMAO, I remember reading in the eckbooks how we weren't supposed to worship Klemp or anything, and I'd think I'm damned lucky he's so wimpy & unattractive, or I'd have a problem there! <gg> On the other hand, there was so much *more* in the eckbooks that set him up as such a high "godman" that worship was *definitely* a requirement, and this was reinforced by what I absorbed in other eckists, the silly gaga movie-star-fan syndrome! I felt I wasn't quite "getting it".



                    >As opposed to traditional worship of a deity as is in the
                    > Judaeo-Christian realm, it has a living "focus".


                    My grandchildren have been raised without indoctrination, and once my grandson asked me about the cultstuff, which led to an interesting conversation - he wasn't at all familiar with the Bible or anything. He asked me what exactly was God? I was sort of surprised, thought that *everyone* knew that! Well...I thought for a moment and said I thought God was everything "best and highest" that's within us, that we aspire to, and we took all those qualities and magnified them and just made up God to help make them "real".

                    Twitch used that nonsense about needing a "living master", and then made this "master" equal to God, and named *himself* master. This was a part of his cultic indoctrination method, and I am amazed that cult members think this is some kind of "spiritual law". It's not!



                    > All of the Eckies
                    > want to please Harold and want Harold to recognize them like a father
                    > would a good son or daughter.

                    But not in a healthy way. When your children grow up, it's different. In fact, Klemp's "parenting" skills leave a lot to be desired. They're more like a stern and strict "my way or the highway" type. Not at all like the beautiful picture of God the Father depicted in the parable of the Prodigal Son.

                    What's even worse, you can start out being adult and independent, and the cult takes control and Klemp imposes his control in such a sneaky and subtle way that you don't even know what's happened until KABOOM!! You're a mindless little eckanborg and don't even know it!

                    As my children grew, I let them know that I was *not* perfect and did *not* know everything, but I'd had more experience in life. And although most of the time, I was the Boss, well...it was more like just having the responsibility for others and wanting to do your best, and *someone* has to be "the boss", however I was always open to discussion. And when we openly discussed things, they knew that if they were reasonable or whatever, I was reasonable too.

                    Since they've grown up, we're equals. Different, of course - they still ask my input, and I ask theirs.



                    This feeling that Harold is "always
                    > with them" as he professes, exalts them above non-Eckists, feeds
                    > their egos and turns them into blind elitist egomaniacs.


                    Yes, it works this way - moreso in those who have deep psychological problems with self-esteem (like Klemp!) and no "Self" outside of that artificial eckanborg identity.

                    As I've posted before, I was hesitant to go to my first eckstudy, because after reading the eckbooks, I wondered how the hell I'd gotten "chosen", and the thought of being in the company of those high holey people really scared the hell out of me! Geez, I'd been through that as a kid with the JWs - the thought of spending eternity on a "paradise" earth filled with happy obedient JWs was a total turn-off! I decided I'd rather be "bad". As I grew up a bit, I realized I didn't have to be "bad", I could just be myself, "nice", and still wouldn't survive Armageddon, which suited me just fine!



                    I would
                    > venture to say that most if not all Eckists have had low self esteem
                    > and replaced it with the falsehoods and lies and promises of Eckankar.


                    And Klemp is a perfect example of this - he makes it clear in all the stories he tells about himself, from childhood through today.


                    Sharon
                  • al_radzik
                    ... homosexuality....or the need for a father figure, or just spiritual lonliness? I ve always wondered why people have a tendency to look to other people
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 3, 2002
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                      --- In eckankartruth@y..., "Sharon" <brighttigress@y...> wrote:
                      > --- In eckankartruth@y..., "broker84" <broker84@c...> wrote:
                      > > Just curious....Is masterworship some subtle form of latent
                      homosexuality....or the need for a father figure, or just spiritual
                      lonliness? I've always wondered why people have a tendency to look
                      to other people instead of looking within for god? Personally, I
                      think it boils down to feelings of loneliness and often results from
                      a pattern of personal failure in life.....feelings of inadequacy and
                      such......
                      > > Any thoughts?
                      >
                      > I don't know about this looking to others instead of within,
                      because to me, it was sort of reversed - I wasn't looking for
                      anything, not seeking, when I "found". The cult came later. And,
                      being so close to the "formless" I had to work really hard
                      at "believing" this was Klemp being the "mahanta". Never quite "got
                      it" and I struggled with this to the end, when I realized that Klemp
                      was just in the way!!! So, when I left the cult - it was beautiful,
                      like a lampshade being removed!

                      Well, I wonder if, as you say, you weren't looking nor seeking for
                      anything, but there was a point in which Eckankar "attracted" us. I
                      use to wonder why, but I think it was one promise they made.
                      Something about touching the hem of God NOW and soaring to spiritual
                      worlds to meet the fabulous Eck Masters. I realized later that any
                      dreams I had or realizations were the same onesd BEFORE Eckankar, and
                      that Twitchell was just trying to cash in on that sensation. We all
                      have dreams and we learn from them. This was Twitch's signal
                      to "encapsulate" those dreams into his religion. Instead of it just
                      being a dream about a man...it was a dream about Rebazar. If you
                      dreamed of a hawk, there was always an Eckish" meaning to it. This is
                      how I believe they all get suckered into it. Once they put their
                      dreams inside the Eckankar construct, it makes perfect sense to them,
                      myopic as they may be.

                      >
                      >> Sometimes it's just lust, honeybuns!! ;o) You know how you feel
                      when you see a busty nubile young thang at the beach? Don't you get
                      down on your knees? <ggg>

                      Don't you mean THONG???
                      >

                      Alf
                    • Sharon
                      ... Nope, I wasn t looking for anything, just enjoying life while I was waiting for Jehovah to kill me at Armageddon. I believed it was true, but wanted
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 4, 2002
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                        --- In eckankartruth@y..., "al_radzik" <al_radzik@y...> wrote:
                        > --- In eckankartruth@y..., "Sharon" <brighttigress@y...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I don't know about this looking to others instead of within,
                        > >because to me, it was sort of reversed - I wasn't looking for
                        > >anything, not seeking, when I "found". The cult came later. And,
                        > >being so close to the "formless" I had to work really hard
                        > >at "believing" this was Klemp being the "mahanta". Never quite
                        > >"got it" and I struggled with this to the end, when I realized
                        > >that Klemp was just in the way!!! So, when I left the cult - it > >was beautiful, like a lampshade being removed!
                        >
                        > Well, I wonder if, as you say, you weren't looking nor seeking for
                        > anything, but there was a point in which Eckankar "attracted" us.

                        Nope, I wasn't looking for anything, just enjoying life while I was waiting for Jehovah to kill me at Armageddon. I believed it was true, but wanted *nothing* to do with such a *nasty* s.o.b. or his "chosen organization".


                        >I
                        > use to wonder why, but I think it was one promise they made.
                        > Something about touching the hem of God NOW and soaring to spiritual
                        > worlds to meet the fabulous Eck Masters.

                        With me, I had "experiences" in full consciousness before the cult. Didn't just touch the hem of God, I "rested" in His arms, and we were truly one. But at first I thought uh-oh, the JWs were right and I *was* in the control of Satan! <gg> Then I ruled out "physical" causes like a brain tumor. These "experiences" ranged from incredibly beautiful beyond words, to damn scary. Now, at this point in time I had *no* firm "belief" about them, other than they came about simply because of the way I was living and feeling at the time - just mostly in the moment, with a very happy and loving heart, appreciating life & everything in it - maybe it was especially precious to me because I felt I could be zapped anytime. I'd sort of created my own little "paradise" for as long as it would last.

                        And one thing I remembered feeling & thinking was how there was so much beauty in the world and its people (and critters), and how could "Jehovah" not see the beauty and only see the bad? And this is a feeling I've had more and more since leaving e-kult, which very slowly implants their "vision" of a spiritually starving world filled with the lost struggling masses, because it serves their purpose of creating active true-believing cultic recruiters! That's another thing I thought about the JWs - that it was damned rude & pushy of them to go around annoying people knocking on doors. And something in their attitude about those who slammed the door on them - well, I didn't recognize arrogant cultic elitism using those words at the time, I just felt "creepy" about them, and their "God". Because e-kult uses the same "tactics" but more "warm fluffy luuuuvstuff" to hide it, although sometimes I'd get that same "creepy" feeling I stifled it because I *wanted* to believe, and it certainly seemed like it was true, based on my experiences and what I was reading.

                        I'm laughing a bit, though, because one thing I was *not* the least bit interested in was...meeting "eckmasters"!! No, I did NOT want them popping up in my life...especially Rebizarre!! He was loud, nasty, pushy, etc., and did way too much barking and poking!! <gg>

                        I wondered a bit, though, how I'd been to those "God-worlds" by myself, and had those experiences with no help. I told myself that evidently, Klemp was around but I just didn't know it!! Duh, I was stupid, wasn't I?

                        A funny thing, though...I remember one of my early "experiences", I was in that warm fuzzy "overflowing" buzzed state, watching...not thinking or expecting anything, just observing. This was right in the beginning of my acquaintance with the cult. Anyway...I was already trying to fit the "experiences" into what the cult said, but this one time, I was experiencing three figures walking towards me through a mist. There was a sense of "holiness" about the moment, that didn't come from "me" - and a voice (a voice that I'd always known) said..."This has nothing to do with eckankar."

                        Odd, huh? But...I didn't listen.


                        >I realized later that any
                        > dreams I had or realizations were the same onesd BEFORE Eckankar,
                        > and
                        > that Twitchell was just trying to cash in on that sensation.


                        That's *exactly* what he did! He'd certainly studied enough about so many things - especially psychology & cults and how they worked, so he could get followers & control them. It's sort of odd how one twitchstory always stuck with me - the necktie salesman experiment, where he told the salesman to tell people "this tie is recommended by Paul Twitchell", and people would buy the tie, even though they had *no* idea who "Paul Twitchell" was - but they didn't want to appear stupid to the salesperson!! And the Twitch went on to *use* this tactic when he plagiarized genuine spiritual writings & claimed they were dictated by his fictional "eckmasters"!!

                        Some of my dreams *did* change, though - for example, "meeting" Klemp, except at this point I honestly don't know if these dreams were "real" in the sense of his actually being there in my dreams - if so, it was plain & simple psychic invasion. These "odd" dreams also could have been just something within me, perhaps a touch of "clairvoyance" or something because that first one was *so* obvious when you're not telling yourself it's "good" and "spiritual" because Klemp was there. The man was putting me in this horrible dark room with no windows, a room in a "mansion" which others might find attractive, but that stuff doesn't interest me. It's superficial. My "eckdreams" were actually *warnings* but I was too busy brainwashing myself.



                        We all
                        > have dreams and we learn from them. This was Twitch's signal
                        > to "encapsulate" those dreams into his religion. Instead of it just
                        > being a dream about a man...it was a dream about Rebazar. If you
                        > dreamed of a hawk, there was always an Eckish" meaning to it. This is
                        > how I believe they all get suckered into it. Once they put their
                        > dreams inside the Eckankar construct, it makes perfect sense to them,
                        > myopic as they may be.
                        >

                        Yep - we can learn from dreams just as we do from real life, but it's pretty silly to make a religious out of dreams!! They're not reliable, actually - some of our dreams are just "baloney". But we *can* sort of control & program our dreams - I'd been doing that long before the cult, just for fun. Like if I was reading a good book at bedtime, just for fun I'd sort of make something up as I was going to sleep, like putting myself in the book, so I'd have neat dreams!

                        The cult's "waking dream" and "golden-tongued wisdom" stuff is just taking parts of everyday ordinary life and making something "spirichul" and "speshul" out of ordinary things. Do we not learn from everything in life? You don't have to throw on special cult labels & make a big deal about it the way the cult does.

                        There are just so many examples of this dumb stuff - like Klemp's "ecksplanation" for a cult seminar attendee's food poisoning, that the eckist was battling the KAL on the inner planes! How incredibly dumb!! And the nonsense about eckists encountering burned-out lightbulbs, that it means you're not getting enough light in your life. Duh.

                        And I'm laughing here, remembering a conversation between an HI and an almost-HI. Six flies landed on the HI's TV screen, and they were giggling & speculating that maybe it was a "sign" that the HI would be getting her 6th soon!! And they were perfectly serious. Isn't that ridiculous? Geezus, I'm glad I'm out or I'd be thinking that the five little "wandering eyebrows" that popped out on my chin mean I'm due for the 5th!! <ggg>

                        Well...I'd always liked fantasy, but what the cult does is take fantasy and make people think it's real!!

                        Even worse - well, the "techniques" can indeed be responsible for these "eckmasters" actually taking form & materializing, even to the point of believing in themselves - which is how you get them appearing to non-eckists, perhaps. I read something about that in Tibetan Buddhism, and the Twitchster was certainly more interested in the power and "black magic" and occult aspects of things more than he was in "god-realization" or anything like that. The only interest he had in "God" was for the power aspects. That's quite obvious when you look at what he *stole* compared to when he was writing his own thoughts.


                        > >
                        > >> Sometimes it's just lust, honeybuns!! ;o) You know how you feel
                        > when you see a busty nubile young thang at the beach? Don't you get
                        > down on your knees? <ggg>
                        >
                        > Don't you mean THONG???
                        > >

                        A thang in a thong???

                        Heard a cute comment on TV recently, about it being no wonder that teen girls get so cranky - they've got wedgies!!! Good grief, how times change! I don't see how anyone old enough to remember the "sanitary belt" would want to wear a thong. It's sort of funny - I remember when a woman would be *horrified* if her bra-strap showed with sleeveless shirts. Heaven forbid that people would know she was wearing a bra! <gg> Now, exposed bra straps are a fashion statement! Heck, whole exposed bras are "in" - I guess it makes it easier to decide what to wear when you're going out!

                        Well...gotta run, have a great day!

                        Hugs,

                        Sharon



                        >
                        > Alf
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