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Re: My Eckankar resignation letter

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  • brighttigress
    ... You re so right, Colleen! Except - according to the cult s teachings we ve chosen any faulty brain wiring for spiritual growth! And if you re an
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 8, 2002
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      --- In eckankartruth@y..., colleen russell <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
      > Sharon wrote:
      > "Sometimes I really wonder about that, you know?
      > There's too much
      > genuine evil in the world, I think, to attribute it
      > all to misguided
      > free will. I have seen genuinely evil & twisted
      > children, and their
      > upbringings can't be the sole cause."
      >
      > I attribute much of the "evil" actions in the world to
      > the functioning of the brain, especially in the
      > frontal cortex, the executive functioning unit. And
      > anyone who has been clinically depressed knows what a
      > major change occurs in mood, memory, emotional
      > reactivity as a result of increasing the seretonin
      > level in the brain when taking a SSRI antidepressent
      > medication like Paxil, Celexa, Prozac, etc.
      >
      > We are physical(including biochemical), mental,
      > emotional, spiritual beings, IMO.
      >

      You're so right, Colleen! Except - according to the
      cult's "teachings" we've chosen any faulty brain wiring for spiritual
      growth! <gg>

      And if you're an eckie and end up on any medication, you'll probably
      thank "the mahanta" for leading you to your shrink. Of course, if
      you're *not* a cult member and you're seeing a shrink and getting
      meds, well...that's different. Gawd, I just do *not* feel like
      typing more & elaborating on this!!

      I do NOT accept the stuff about us being here for spiritual
      experience, using either e-kult's perspective *or* Christianity's.

      Let me give an example here - back in roughly '97, '98, I was
      experiencing some health problems - possibly fibromyalgia or one of
      those similar "illnesses" that doctors don't *really* quite know that
      much about - I happened upon it and it seemed to fit, to explain what
      was going on. Well...I had been a bit freaked to notice that I had
      been experiencing all the symptoms of agoraphobia, which was *really*
      surprising and not like me at all. Surprise, surprise - I found this
      listed somewhere in symptoms!! But since I was aware of it, I could
      word harder at refusing to let anything control me. I guess not
      everyone's able to do this, though.

      And the "spex" work just like drugs/medications. They *do* alter the
      brain chemistry or whatever - and this can be either a good or a bad
      thing. Problem is, whether it's spex or meds, if only the symptoms
      and not the underlying causes (if there *are* some in addition to
      brain chemistry) then if for some reason the drug isn't working,
      well....KABOOM!!!!! And once again, I don't feel like typing
      anymore... <ggg>

      Bye!

      Hugs,

      Sharon




      > Colleen
      > --- brighttigress <brighttigress@y...> wrote:
      > > --- In eckankartruth@y..., "royalcourt5"
      > > <royalcourt5@y...> wrote:
      > > > --- In eckankartruth@y..., "brighttigress"
      > > <brighttigress@y...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > You know, if we want to, we can still just sort
      > > of have fun and
      > > use
      > > > > various occurrences in our lives & look at them
      > > and
      > > find "lessons",
      > > > > but we need to keep this kind of "magical
      > > thinking" in proper
      > > > > perspective. Remember, it's not much different
      > > than picking the
      > > > > petals off daisies and intoning "He loves me, he
      > > loves me not..."
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hi Sharon!
      > > >
      > > > Thanks for pointing this out! I only mentioned
      > > that little story
      > > > because I found that it sort of helped me. I'm
      > > sure this
      > > > whole "waking dreams" area as it was called in the
      > > cult will grow
      > > > back into simple "common sense". To read something
      > > into everything
      > > > would just drive you mad. So I need to develop
      > > common sense. It
      > > > will take some time!
      > >
      > >
      > > I understand this incident meant a lot to you - it
      > > *is* a beautiful
      > > story! But the same incident could have just as
      > > easily had the
      > > opposite meaning for you, had you decided to stay in
      > > the cult, and
      > > fallen for the "next LEM" stuff. You could have
      > > taken it to mean the
      > > bird represented "soul" (many of them) locked into
      > > the earthly
      > > consciousness, and you as LEM freeing them! See
      > > what I mean?
      > >
      > > The truth is, the only *true* meaning of the story
      > > is that a bird got
      > > indoors, and you're a nice caring person and you
      > > helped it get out
      > > again. There are other possibilities. Like this
      > > could have happened
      > > to one of those silly brainless bimbo-types who
      > > would get hysterical
      > > about the possibility of birdpoop on the furniture,
      > > and either call
      > > an exterminator or her husband (who's very busy at
      > > work) to handle
      > > the matter for her, from a neighbor's phone of
      > > course because the
      > > bird might attack and give her rabies. (I *do* know
      > > women like
      > > that!) Or, it could have been some ignorant jerk
      > > who might get angry
      > > and take great joy in killing the poor bird.
      > >
      > >
      > > > > I believe a lot more male eckists than we think
      > > have this "next
      > > > > LEM" fantasy. Not too many talk about it,
      > > though. It's just
      > > > > another weapon the cult uses against people, to
      > > hold on to
      > > members.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > I found it VERY difficult to resist that fantasy.
      > > The last few
      > > years
      > > > though it was ok. Strangely enough the fantasy
      > > only came on strong
      > > > again now that I have left.
      > > >
      > >
      > > Sneaky way to control you, isn't it?
      > >
      > > Did you read what Klemp wrote about his becoming
      > > LEM? He got it "on
      > > the inner", was disappointed at one WW because he
      > > didn't get it,
      > > Darwin announced from stage that several were being
      > > tested but didn't
      > > make it, but Klemp got it the following year.
      > > Now...when I read
      > > this, I had a few "nudges" - questions I stomped
      > > down. But that's
      > > me - I have a bad habit of asking dumb questions.
      > > It just didnt'
      > > make sense. If there were people *other* than
      > > Klemp being trained &
      > > tested or whatever, well...why? Didn't Suggie or
      > > the 9 Silent Ones
      > > already "know" who'd be the next one? Why were they
      > > playing games
      > > with these other people? Then if you think about
      > > what Twitch wrote
      > > about Himself and all the lifetimes he'd been in
      > > training to be LEM &
      > > all that stuff, well...the whole thing doesn't make
      > > sense.
      > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > > > > I know I am Soul. Like you. Like each and
      > > every Soul. From the
      > > > > > absolute's viewpoint no Soul is ever above or
      > > below another
      > > > Soul.
      > > > >
      > > > > I don't look at myself as "soul" as the cult
      > > does, which
      > > downplays
      > > > > the importance of our "physical" selves -
      > > including the mental,
      > > > > emotional, etc. I'm just me, and all of it goes
      > > together to make
      > > > me.
      > > > >
      > > > > I don't exactly believe in this "equality" of
      > > "soul",
      > > > either. "Soul"
      > > > > can screw up & make bad choices, too.
      > > Like...Hitler.
      > > > > And...Twitchell! <ggg>
      > > >
      > > > I only meant "equality" from a viewpoint of
      > > whatever being created
      > > > these sparks sort of "endowed" them with the same
      > > initial qualities
      > > > and possibilities. The choices then were made by
      > > us.
      > > >
      > >
      > > Sometimes I really wonder about that, you know?
      > > There's too much
      > > genuine evil in the world, I think, to attribute it
      > > all to misguided
      > > free will. I have seen genuinely evil & twisted
      > > children, and their
      > > upbringings can't be the sole cause.
      > >
      > > And although the story about all souls being little
      > > sparks of God,
      > > well...how do we *really* know this? Although it
      > > *is* comforting to
      > > believe, isn't it?
      > >
      > >
      > > > Strangely enough I knew that the whole point of
      > > Soul being here was
      > > > making full use of all its possibilities, whether
      > > they're
      > > emotional,
      > > > mental or physical. The cult sort of even
      > > encouraged that, except
      > > > using the critical factuly on the cult itself :-).
      > > >
      > >
      > > Well, we can believe we "know", but can we really?
      > >
      > > Can we really be sure we're not just an alien
      > > breeding experiment?
      > >
      > > And where is it written in stone that we have to
      > > believe in
      > > *anything*?? Well...the 10 Commandments, of
      > > course... <ggg>
      > >
      > >
      > > > > > You see, if I needed Eckankar to learn all of
      > > this, then
      > > perhaps
      > > > it
      > > > > > was really a worthwhile experience!
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > It's good to make lemonade out of the
      > > experience! But I feel it
      > > > is
      > > > > *wrong* and misguided to think that we "needed"
      > > the experience of
      > > e-
      > > > > kult. Getting mixed up in it was simply a
      > > matter of our not
      > > being
      > > > > informed, being sincere & gullible, and the
      > > plain simple fact
      > > that
      > > > in
      > >
      > === message truncated ===
      >
      >
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    • royalcourt5
      ... of ... you ... Hi Colleen! I changed the subject line to reflect a new point in this reply. Hope that s ok. I replied to an email by an old friend in the
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 11, 2002
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        --- In eckankartruth@y..., "colleenmft" <colleenmft@y...> wrote:
        > Hi Andy...
        >
        > I'd like to respond to your thoughts about what could be taken out
        of
        > eckankar...
        >
        > If you took all that you suggest out of eckankar, then what would
        you
        > have? No eckankar! Only the original resources by which Twitchell
        > attracted us all in the beginning without givine due credit (Yogic
        > teachings, for example.)
        >
        > Colleen
        >

        Hi Colleen!

        I changed the subject line to reflect a new point in this reply. Hope
        that's ok.

        I replied to an email by an old friend in the cult and he used the
        standard excuse that without Paul we would have never found the sound
        and light. We should actually be grateful :-).

        I can see his point but we all know that does not excuse the use of
        other people's material without giving credits, whether it's from the
        Sant Mat teachings, the Sikh religion ("ek onkar" meaning "the one
        true god"), the Sufis etc.

        Let's assume for a moment that Paul would have done all that. That he
        would have "compiled" (as the master revisionist would like to call
        it!) all those teachings in a scholarly fashion and given *proper*
        credits.

        Question: would we have been attracted to it just as much as
        *without* knowing where Paul took his material, and without the
        special "twist" he gave it all, I mean setting himself up as the
        holder of the "superconsciousness" in all existence?

        Only now that I'm out of the cult I realize in my case that there
        must have been at least an unconscious attraction to the "agent of
        god" stuff. All of us humans seem to have a longing for god or the
        absolute implanted.

        When someone appears with a strong imagination like Paul and claims
        to know something about this with authority, avoiding saying "could
        be", "may be" or "perhaps", we seem to willingly give up our
        imagination and exchange it with his.

        I found an interesting quote from a book by a guy named Paul Kurtz.
        He writes in "The Transcendantal Temptation" (Prometheus Books,
        Buffalo, 1986):

        "God, in my judgment, is primarily a projetion of the human for
        completeness. The idea of the deity is an evocation of our emotional
        desire for permanence. It gives vent to our passion for eternity, our
        wish to transcend chaos, danger, impermanence, and adversity. God is
        man's hope for an ideal world beyond this vale of suffering. Fixated
        on the father's image, we look for someone over and beyond, guiding
        us safely through the sea of adversity, a being who, having created
        all things, will ultimately rescue us from nothingness and death."

        Now if someone is that unscrupulous and exploits this by saying that
        he is the "voice of god", he will always have a ready audience. The
        true way to riches is definitely setting up a religion. :-).

        Now if there is a god, then probably "imagination" is the greatest
        gift that we got. I'm glad that at least for the moment :-) it's mine
        again and does not belong to some cult.

        Andy
      • colleen russell
        Andy and All, Andy writes: Let s assume for a moment that Paul would have... compiled (as the master revisionist ... Good question, Andy. After I was
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 11, 2002
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          Andy and All,

          Andy writes: "> Let's assume for a moment that Paul
          would have... "compiled" (as the master revisionist
          > would like to call
          > it!) all those teachings in a scholarly fashion and
          > given *proper*
          > credits.
          >
          > Question: would we have been attracted to it just as
          > much as
          > *without* knowing where Paul took his material, and
          > without the
          > special "twist" he gave it all, I mean setting
          > himself up as the
          > holder of the "superconsciousness" in all existence?


          Good question, Andy.

          After I was convinced (nearly) that Twitchell had the
          "superconscoiusness" by Jerry Mulvin who argued that
          fact with me (then 19!) into the early morning hours
          (coerciver persuasion, perhaps?!), I know I was
          attracted for this reason. I was pulled in by a
          typical feeling of specialness, to be associated with
          such a person. this gave me more status in the eyes
          of some in the world. And, I wanted to be a "vehicle
          for God". The conflict between ego and service was
          there from the beginning. (Probably as it always is
          given the situation).

          >
          > Only now that I'm out of the cult I realize in my
          > case that there
          > must have been at least an unconscious attraction to
          > the "agent of
          > god" stuff. All of us humans seem to have a longing
          > for god or the
          > absolute implanted.
          >
          >
          > I found an interesting quote from a book by a guy
          > named Paul Kurtz.
          > He writes in "The Transcendantal Temptation"
          > (Prometheus Books,
          > Buffalo, 1986):
          >
          > "God, in my judgment, is primarily a projetion of
          > the human for
          > completeness. The idea of the deity is an evocation
          > of our emotional
          > desire for permanence. It gives vent to our passion
          > for eternity, our
          > wish to transcend chaos, danger, impermanence, and
          > adversity. God is
          > man's hope for an ideal world beyond this vale of
          > suffering. Fixated
          > on the father's image, we look for someone over and
          > beyond, guiding
          > us safely through the sea of adversity, a being who,
          > having created
          > all things, will ultimately rescue us from
          > nothingness and death."
          >
          > Now if someone is that unscrupulous and exploits
          > this by saying that
          > he is the "voice of god", he will always have a
          > ready audience. The
          > true way to riches is definitely setting up a
          > religion. :-).
          >
          > Now if there is a god, then probably "imagination"
          > is the greatest
          > gift that we got. I'm glad that at least for the
          > moment :-) it's mine
          > again and does not belong to some cult.
          >
          > Andy
          >
          Thanks, Andy, for your comments and the quote. "God"
          isn't easy for me to say because of its negative
          connotation (now including Sugmad). But I can
          identify with and perceive a love current which I
          feel, and I know that life consists of multiple
          systems which interconnect. The binding "stuff" which
          connects each atom with another, in my perception, is
          Spirit. The binding stuff which is vital to life is
          spirit.

          What do you think?

          Colleen
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


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        • brighttigress
          Damn!!! Just wrote a long response here, and lost it!!!!! Don t feel like reconstructing right now...but this, I feel, is a *very* good thing to talk about a
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 11, 2002
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            Damn!!! Just wrote a long response here, and lost it!!!!!

            Don't feel like reconstructing right now...but this, I feel, is a
            *very* good thing to talk about a bit more!

            So, until I get around to re-doing, I hope some others comment on
            this, too!

            Hugs,

            Sharon
          • samorez@aol.com
            In a message dated 4/11/02 2:33:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... This is a great quote and describes perfectly my motivation for joining Eckankar as a young
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 12, 2002
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              In a message dated 4/11/02 2:33:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
              royalcourt5@... writes:


              > "God, in my judgment, is primarily a projection of the human desire for
              > completeness. The idea of the deity is an evocation of our emotional
              > desire for permanence. It gives vent to our passion for eternity, our
              > wish to transcend chaos, danger, impermanence, and adversity. God is
              > man's hope for an ideal world beyond this vale of suffering. Fixated
              > on the father's image, we look for someone over and beyond, guiding
              > us safely through the sea of adversity, a being who, having created
              > all things, will ultimately rescue us from nothingness and death."
              >

              This is a great quote and describes perfectly my motivation for joining
              Eckankar as a young man in Search of...Something


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