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  • sensei5555@yahoo.com
    Hello and warm regards to all, I am new to this site but feel I have something to offer. I was an Eckist from 1977 to 1997 and am just now sorting out the
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 28, 2001
      Hello and warm regards to all,
      I am new to this site but feel I have something to offer. I was an
      Eckist from 1977 to 1997 and am just now sorting out the experience.I
      worked on the Sedona property in 1977 and there met Gross,George
      Hodges,wife Shirley, and Richard Good. I spent many afternoons
      talking with Helen in her home on the Wings of the Wind property, I
      recall her as very kind and generous with her time and knowledge.
      Thank you for your postings, they are an aid to clarifing my
      thoughts and feelings about my time with this bunch. You will be
      hearing much more from me in the future. I FEEL THAT I HAVE BEEN HAD!
      And now it is time to hoist the Jolly Roger flag and start slitting
      throats.
      sensei5555
    • al_radzik@yahoo.com
      ... Hello sensei. I always enjoy a good story from someone who escaped from Eckankar. It always reminds me of the line in some Grateful Dead song.... what a
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 31, 2001
        --- In eckankartruth@y..., sensei5555@y... wrote
        :
        > Hello and warm regards to all,
        > And now it is time to hoist the Jolly Roger flag and start slitting
        > throats.

        Hello sensei. I always enjoy a good story from someone who escaped
        from Eckankar. It always reminds me of the line in some Grateful Dead
        song...."what a long strange trip it's been"..
        It seems that when one becomes involves in Eckankar, all sense of
        proportion, logic, and reason cease to exist. Although Eckists
        propose that it gives you unlimited freedon th "be all you can be", I
        see the opposite occurring. It seems to incarcerate and disable
        people to the point where they are a mere shell of their original
        self. The "eck" is not Light and Sound.....it is "Darkness and
        Silence" and have yet to hear any good come from any of its followers
        be it in written or oral form. All I ever see is bellicose, angry,
        vindictive a.r.e. Eckies defending this pathetic path day in and day
        out. I am beginning to believe that Eckankar fosters narcissism, such
        as in the case of the a.r.e. regulars who are so blinded into
        oblivion by this mail order mahanta-mush, they have forgotten how to
        be reasonable, caring, loving people. They are cold, heartless
        Eckbots who's heart has been ripped from their chest and have been
        puffed up with pride from the eck-indoctrination.

        Someone take my soapbox away now

        Alf
      • Vic Shayne
        ... They are cold, ... Yes, I agree that eckankar can make people cold and/or colder and indifferent. How could it be otherwise when you consider that
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 31, 2001
          --- al_radzik@... wrote:
          They are cold,
          > heartless
          > Eckbots who's heart has been ripped from their chest
          > and have been
          > puffed up with pride from the eck-indoctrination.
          >
          > Someone take my soapbox away now
          >
          > Alf

          Yes, I agree that eckankar can make people cold and/or
          colder and indifferent. How could it be otherwise when
          you consider that everything that happens to anyone is
          rationalized as "just their karma." In this sense, why
          bother to help anyone in trouble? Why bother to lend a
          helping hand? What eckists call "love" is actually
          some twisted idea. Eckists and the leadership act as
          if they've got life all figured out and this leads to
          narcissism no doubt, because it gives people a swelled
          head, and this is why you can't talk reason with them.
          They walk around with their noses in the air about
          their superior brand of love and full grasp over the
          universe. And if you don't agree, then you "just don't
          get it." In the wrong hands, this way of thinking is
          very dangerous to the rest of society. What eckists
          preach as balance and neutrality is just a delusion.
          Everything they learn from the self appointed deluded
          "mastership" is skewed and out of balance. This is why
          you continue to hear ridiculous things out of the
          mouths of eckists. One thing in particular that struck
          me was when someone asked me whether the Dalai Lama
          comes to Harold for advice on the inner planes. Hah!
          Harold kelpmeister isn't worthy to eat off the ground
          where the Dalai Lama walks. I'm glad I'm out!

          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
          http://personals.yahoo.com
        • colleenmft@yahoo.com
          Thanks, Vic and Alf, for your input. Vic, when and where were you a member, for how long, and when did you leave? If that s too personal, I understand.
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 31, 2001
            Thanks, Vic and Alf, for your input.

            Vic, when and where were you a member, for how long, and when did you
            leave? If that's too personal, I understand.

            Colleen
            "The priviledge of a lifetime is being who you are."
            Joseph Campbell

            --- In eckankartruth@y..., Vic Shayne <vicshayne@y...> wrote:
            > --- al_radzik@y... wrote:
            > They are cold,
            > > heartless
            > > Eckbots who's heart has been ripped from their chest
            > > and have been
            > > puffed up with pride from the eck-indoctrination.
            > >
            > > Someone take my soapbox away now
            > >
            > > Alf
            >
            > Yes, I agree that eckankar can make people cold and/or
            > colder and indifferent. How could it be otherwise when
            > you consider that everything that happens to anyone is
            > rationalized as "just their karma." In this sense, why
            > bother to help anyone in trouble? Why bother to lend a
            > helping hand? What eckists call "love" is actually
            > some twisted idea. Eckists and the leadership act as
            > if they've got life all figured out and this leads to
            > narcissism no doubt, because it gives people a swelled
            > head, and this is why you can't talk reason with them.
            > They walk around with their noses in the air about
            > their superior brand of love and full grasp over the
            > universe. And if you don't agree, then you "just don't
            > get it." In the wrong hands, this way of thinking is
            > very dangerous to the rest of society. What eckists
            > preach as balance and neutrality is just a delusion.
            > Everything they learn from the self appointed deluded
            > "mastership" is skewed and out of balance. This is why
            > you continue to hear ridiculous things out of the
            > mouths of eckists. One thing in particular that struck
            > me was when someone asked me whether the Dalai Lama
            > comes to Harold for advice on the inner planes. Hah!
            > Harold kelpmeister isn't worthy to eat off the ground
            > where the Dalai Lama walks. I'm glad I'm out!
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
            > http://personals.yahoo.com
          • Vic Shayne
            ... Vic, when and where were you a member, for how long, ... I could have sworn you already asked me this a week ago. I was in eckankar in fort lauderdale,
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 31, 2001
              --- colleenmft@... wrote:
              Vic, when and where were you a member, for how long,
              > and when did you
              > leave? If that's too personal, I understand.
              >
              > Colleen

              I could have sworn you already asked me this a week
              ago. I was in eckankar in fort lauderdale, florida for
              about 12 years. I believe I joined in 1986 or so, but
              without checking I am not a hundred percent certain.
              When it comes to eckankar, nothing is personal. I am
              very proud to say that I regained my sanity, my
              emotions and the annual fee that I used to pay. I must
              say, however, that I was never a model eckist, because
              as a comedy writer, I could never fully take it
              seriously. I used to draw cartoons of harold in the
              newsletter, write satires, etc., for which I drew a
              lot of complaints. Maybe it was my eternal sardonic
              wit and skepticism that never let me fall in too far.
              I entertained all of the teachings and found most of
              them seemingly enriching, but by the last two years, I
              began to discover what others, including Sharon and
              David Lane, were saying about eckankar, and that made
              me ask questions that HIs could not answer and did not
              want to answer. This was the beginning of the end,
              because nothing should be ignored if there is nothing
              to hide. But when I discovered what was going on, I
              became very pissed off and went on a search for the
              truth. I searched and compiled information to the tune
              of 500-plus pages until I had had enough. To this day,
              I find talking about eckankar and its leaders
              therapeutic because it's a release for my anger and
              it's good for others who are also looking for answers.

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
              http://personals.yahoo.com
            • steffan_z@hotmail.com
              ... I do appreciate members here for telling their stories and comments. As Vic and others have said it is good to give a verbal release for everyone s
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 31, 2001
                --- In eckankartruth@y..., Vic Shayne <vicshayne@y...> wrote:
                >To this day,
                > I find talking about eckankar and its leaders
                > therapeutic because it's a release for my anger and
                > it's good for others who are also looking for answers.

                I do appreciate members here for telling their stories and comments.

                As Vic and others have said it is good to give a verbal release for
                everyone's benefit. It's been a month now since I sent in my
                official termination although I was inactive for the last year
                because I was so bummed out with the local eckankar hierarchy. Being
                free from that cult is great! I do feel that I have a lot of anger
                towards eckankar and disappointment with myself for being sucked
                into this sham. At times I feel the urge to bust some HI clergy
                heads that I have known. But just talking about it with someone
                helps. Please keep posting your experiences because it is really a
                healing benefit for ex-cult members.


                Steffan
              • colleenmft@yahoo.com
                Thanks, Vic, you re life is interesting, blending comedy with eckankar! Do you draw from your 12 years of experience in your current work? 12 years is still a
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 31, 2001
                  Thanks, Vic, you're life is interesting, blending comedy with
                  eckankar! Do you draw from your 12 years of experience in your
                  current work? 12 years is still a long time to be involved. I can
                  just envision the sour faces when you drew the most serious Klemp in
                  his star role. Is any of your work online?

                  Colleen



                  --- In eckankartruth@y..., Vic Shayne <vicshayne@y...> wrote:
                  > --- colleenmft@y... wrote:
                  > Vic, when and where were you a member, for how long,
                  > > and when did you
                  > > leave? If that's too personal, I understand.
                  > >
                  > > Colleen
                  >
                  > I could have sworn you already asked me this a week
                  > ago. I was in eckankar in fort lauderdale, florida for
                  > about 12 years. I believe I joined in 1986 or so, but
                  > without checking I am not a hundred percent certain.
                  > When it comes to eckankar, nothing is personal. I am
                  > very proud to say that I regained my sanity, my
                  > emotions and the annual fee that I used to pay. I must
                  > say, however, that I was never a model eckist, because
                  > as a comedy writer, I could never fully take it
                  > seriously. I used to draw cartoons of harold in the
                  > newsletter, write satires, etc., for which I drew a
                  > lot of complaints. Maybe it was my eternal sardonic
                  > wit and skepticism that never let me fall in too far.
                  > I entertained all of the teachings and found most of
                  > them seemingly enriching, but by the last two years, I
                  > began to discover what others, including Sharon and
                  > David Lane, were saying about eckankar, and that made
                  > me ask questions that HIs could not answer and did not
                  > want to answer. This was the beginning of the end,
                  > because nothing should be ignored if there is nothing
                  > to hide. But when I discovered what was going on, I
                  > became very pissed off and went on a search for the
                  > truth. I searched and compiled information to the tune
                  > of 500-plus pages until I had had enough. To this day,
                  > I find talking about eckankar and its leaders
                  > therapeutic because it's a release for my anger and
                  > it's good for others who are also looking for answers.
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
                  > http://personals.yahoo.com
                • colleenmft@yahoo.com
                  Steffan, Your anger is healthy!.........real!.......understandable!....human!.....in what appears to be a major transition for you. Thanks for your support.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 31, 2001
                    Steffan,
                    Your anger is
                    healthy!.........real!.......understandable!....human!.....in what
                    appears to be a major transition for you.

                    Thanks for your support.

                    Colleen
                    --- In eckankartruth@y..., steffan_z@h... wrote:
                    > --- In eckankartruth@y..., Vic Shayne <vicshayne@y...> wrote:
                    > >To this day,
                    > > I find talking about eckankar and its leaders
                    > > therapeutic because it's a release for my anger and
                    > > it's good for others who are also looking for answers.
                    >
                    > I do appreciate members here for telling their stories and
                    comments.
                    >
                    > As Vic and others have said it is good to give a verbal release for
                    > everyone's benefit. It's been a month now since I sent in my
                    > official termination although I was inactive for the last year
                    > because I was so bummed out with the local eckankar hierarchy.
                    Being
                    > free from that cult is great! I do feel that I have a lot of anger
                    > towards eckankar and disappointment with myself for being sucked
                    > into this sham. At times I feel the urge to bust some HI clergy
                    > heads that I have known. But just talking about it with someone
                    > helps. Please keep posting your experiences because it is really a
                    > healing benefit for ex-cult members.
                    >
                    >
                    > Steffan
                  • fishnik2004
                    i have been asking and asking what are the mechanics of choosing a RESA. surely u know. is it a so called spiritual decision, or just a practical business
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 2, 2004
                      i have been asking and asking what are the mechanics of choosing a
                      RESA. surely u know. is it a so called spiritual decision, or just a
                      practical business decision? and who decides? is the RESA considered
                      to be spiritually advanced as compared to the other eckists in a
                      community? did u consider urself spiritually advanced when u were
                      one? is there any basis for believing that a RESA is more evolved in
                      some way??

                      please respond, fishnik
                    • colleen
                      Hi Fishnik, ... What can you trust in absolutist groups about why some people are given spiritual status? I was given my 3rd initiation and within a year, my
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 2, 2004
                        Hi Fishnik,


                        --- fishnik2004 <fishnik2004@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > i have been asking and asking what are the mechanics
                        > of choosing a
                        > RESA. surely u know. is it a so called spiritual
                        > decision, or just a
                        > practical business decision? and who decides?

                        What can you trust in absolutist groups about why some
                        people are given "spiritual status?"

                        I was given my 3rd initiation and within a year, my
                        5th by Twitchell, then my 6th by Bluth (sp?) a few
                        years later, then my 7th by Gross several more years
                        later.

                        The reason given was that Twitchell was speeding up
                        the spiritual vibrations and initiations because he
                        needed more help with the organization..and that
                        "Rebezar Tarzs" the 500-year-old "eck master" ordered
                        this to happen! I met and later married (at 29 years
                        of age) a man who was becoming more active and
                        prominant in the org; I also began devoting all of my
                        available time to eckankar. The more I did, the more
                        initiations I got, as well as more admiration from
                        other "eckists." My ex and I, with a group of others,
                        were fired up by Twitchell to "open up the West Coast"
                        to establish eckankar, which we successfully did.
                        Twitchell needed some people locally whom he could
                        trust to continue his work and he trusted us. I took
                        my role very seriously and tried to practice all the
                        "spiritual laws" of the "higher initiate" as best I
                        could. I truly believed that I was a "vehicle" for
                        the "mahanta", and that through me, others in eckankar
                        and in the outside community were given the "eck
                        blessings." I viewed "eck" as Spirit, meaning love,
                        wisdom, truth, power...of all, love was most
                        important.

                        I was appointed the Mahdis with my ex and later, I was
                        appointed RESA although I wasn't very active in this
                        role. This was about the time I became inactive in
                        eckankar, quietly withdrawing.

                        did u consider urself spiritually
                        > advanced when u were
                        > one? is there any basis for believing that a RESA is
                        > more evolved in
                        > some way??

                        All the writing and lectures by Twitchell/Gross/Klemp
                        reinforce the idea that RESA's have a "higher
                        spiritual consciousness" than others, so a part of me
                        willingly believed it. If I didn't, what was I doing
                        in eckankar? I was told, and I believed, that I had
                        gained spiritual wisdom through all my lifetimes,
                        finally meeting again with the "mahanta", just like
                        others in countless cults are told and believe. With
                        the group accepting that "mahdis" or "higher
                        initiates" and RESA's are more "spiritually aware", it
                        reinforces this belief in oneself.

                        As stated in my last post, as time went on, I felt
                        like "a lifeguard on a crowded beach, knowing you
                        can't swim, and hesitating to tell anyone for fear of
                        panic." I felt responsible for perpetuating the
                        belief or the absolutist ideology we came to
                        accept....what would other eckists do if they lost
                        their confidence and faith in the "higher initiates",
                        "inner master", and eckankar?
                        Again, my feeling responsible for other people's
                        experience was a type of co-dependency, I now
                        recognize. I think this is related to the inevitable
                        grandiosity of being the "higher initiate", encouraged
                        by eckankar and its leaders. It may also relate to
                        why other "higher initiates" like my ex and Johnson,
                        go on to start their own org. What might possibly
                        occur is that "lower initiates" are infantalized in
                        that they are deemed unable to handle the truth of the
                        org. Therefore, the "higher initiate" or former
                        "higher initiate" comes forth to save the day!
                        However, is this former "higher initiate" still
                        convinced of being "spiritually advanced" in some way,
                        even when he has recognized the betrayal in the org,
                        and that Twitchell/Gross/KLemp who were deemed
                        responsible for initiating him were/are dishonest or
                        deceived? What does this say about one's ego strength
                        or how one can stand up without the titles and image?

                        It's always a process in recovery from groups like
                        eckankar.

                        Hope this was helpful.

                        Colleen
                        >
                        > please respond, fishnik
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        =====
                        This electronic mail transmission may contain privileged,
                        confidential and/or proprietary information intended only for the person(s) named. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure to another person is strictly prohibited. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email.
                        ***************************************************************



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                      • colleenmft
                        Sorry for the typo -- I married at 19 years of age in a marriage which lasted 7 years. Colleen ... person(s) named. Any use, distribution, copying or
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 2, 2004
                          Sorry for the typo -- I married at 19 years of age in a marriage
                          which lasted 7 years.

                          Colleen

                          --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, colleen <colleenmft@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > Hi Fishnik,
                          >
                          >
                          > --- fishnik2004 <fishnik2004@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > > i have been asking and asking what are the mechanics
                          > > of choosing a
                          > > RESA. surely u know. is it a so called spiritual
                          > > decision, or just a
                          > > practical business decision? and who decides?
                          >
                          > What can you trust in absolutist groups about why some
                          > people are given "spiritual status?"
                          >
                          > I was given my 3rd initiation and within a year, my
                          > 5th by Twitchell, then my 6th by Bluth (sp?) a few
                          > years later, then my 7th by Gross several more years
                          > later.
                          >
                          > The reason given was that Twitchell was speeding up
                          > the spiritual vibrations and initiations because he
                          > needed more help with the organization..and that
                          > "Rebezar Tarzs" the 500-year-old "eck master" ordered
                          > this to happen! I met and later married (at 29 years
                          > of age) a man who was becoming more active and
                          > prominant in the org; I also began devoting all of my
                          > available time to eckankar. The more I did, the more
                          > initiations I got, as well as more admiration from
                          > other "eckists." My ex and I, with a group of others,
                          > were fired up by Twitchell to "open up the West Coast"
                          > to establish eckankar, which we successfully did.
                          > Twitchell needed some people locally whom he could
                          > trust to continue his work and he trusted us. I took
                          > my role very seriously and tried to practice all the
                          > "spiritual laws" of the "higher initiate" as best I
                          > could. I truly believed that I was a "vehicle" for
                          > the "mahanta", and that through me, others in eckankar
                          > and in the outside community were given the "eck
                          > blessings." I viewed "eck" as Spirit, meaning love,
                          > wisdom, truth, power...of all, love was most
                          > important.
                          >
                          > I was appointed the Mahdis with my ex and later, I was
                          > appointed RESA although I wasn't very active in this
                          > role. This was about the time I became inactive in
                          > eckankar, quietly withdrawing.
                          >
                          > did u consider urself spiritually
                          > > advanced when u were
                          > > one? is there any basis for believing that a RESA is
                          > > more evolved in
                          > > some way??
                          >
                          > All the writing and lectures by Twitchell/Gross/Klemp
                          > reinforce the idea that RESA's have a "higher
                          > spiritual consciousness" than others, so a part of me
                          > willingly believed it. If I didn't, what was I doing
                          > in eckankar? I was told, and I believed, that I had
                          > gained spiritual wisdom through all my lifetimes,
                          > finally meeting again with the "mahanta", just like
                          > others in countless cults are told and believe. With
                          > the group accepting that "mahdis" or "higher
                          > initiates" and RESA's are more "spiritually aware", it
                          > reinforces this belief in oneself.
                          >
                          > As stated in my last post, as time went on, I felt
                          > like "a lifeguard on a crowded beach, knowing you
                          > can't swim, and hesitating to tell anyone for fear of
                          > panic." I felt responsible for perpetuating the
                          > belief or the absolutist ideology we came to
                          > accept....what would other eckists do if they lost
                          > their confidence and faith in the "higher initiates",
                          > "inner master", and eckankar?
                          > Again, my feeling responsible for other people's
                          > experience was a type of co-dependency, I now
                          > recognize. I think this is related to the inevitable
                          > grandiosity of being the "higher initiate", encouraged
                          > by eckankar and its leaders. It may also relate to
                          > why other "higher initiates" like my ex and Johnson,
                          > go on to start their own org. What might possibly
                          > occur is that "lower initiates" are infantalized in
                          > that they are deemed unable to handle the truth of the
                          > org. Therefore, the "higher initiate" or former
                          > "higher initiate" comes forth to save the day!
                          > However, is this former "higher initiate" still
                          > convinced of being "spiritually advanced" in some way,
                          > even when he has recognized the betrayal in the org,
                          > and that Twitchell/Gross/KLemp who were deemed
                          > responsible for initiating him were/are dishonest or
                          > deceived? What does this say about one's ego strength
                          > or how one can stand up without the titles and image?
                          >
                          > It's always a process in recovery from groups like
                          > eckankar.
                          >
                          > Hope this was helpful.
                          >
                          > Colleen
                          > >
                          > > please respond, fishnik
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > =====
                          > This electronic mail transmission may contain privileged,
                          > confidential and/or proprietary information intended only for the
                          person(s) named. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure to
                          another person is strictly prohibited. If you are not the addressee
                          indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the
                          message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to
                          anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly
                          notify the sender by reply email.
                          > ***************************************************************
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > __________________________________
                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
                          > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
                        • jjamie1977
                          colleen, i don t know if ur still around, but i just finished reading one of Alice Miller s books. I found her because you posted some quotes on this site a
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 1 12:20 PM
                            colleen, i don't know if ur still around, but i just finished reading
                            one of Alice Miller's books. I found her because you posted some
                            quotes on this site a while back. The woman is amazing, and I am so
                            profoundly grateful for finding her book (prisoners of childhood).

                            jamie....
                          • colleen
                            Hi Jamie, I haven t posted very often in the last few months, but I check in every now and then.... So glad you appreciate Alice Miller s work. Have you read
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jan 2 6:10 PM
                              Hi Jamie,
                              I haven't posted very often in the last few months,
                              but I check in every now and then....

                              So glad you appreciate Alice Miller's work. Have you
                              read For Your Own Good by Miller? It includes a
                              revealing in-depth analysis of Hitler's life and how
                              many in his society allowed him to gain power.

                              Miller highlights "hidden cruelty in child-rearing and
                              the roots of violence" as well as the manipulation of
                              the individual and group.

                              also interesting that Twitchell told us about Hitler's
                              manipulation of the "group consciousness", using
                              Twitchell's terminology. Ever noticed how some people
                              give voice to what he/she is involved in? (Without
                              accepting responsibility for it, of course).

                              Take care....Hello Everyone!!! Happy New Year!!! And
                              for all who wish it, continued healing and integration
                              of the eckankar experience.

                              Regards,
                              Colleen


                              --- jjamie1977 <jjamie1977@...> wrote:

                              > colleen, i don't know if ur still around, but i just
                              > finished reading
                              > one of Alice Miller's books. I found her because
                              > you posted some
                              > quotes on this site a while back. The woman is
                              > amazing, and I am so
                              > profoundly grateful for finding her book (prisoners
                              > of childhood).
                              >
                              > jamie....
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


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