Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Road Kill

Expand Messages
  • rc1tn@aol.com
    I was talking to my buddy, David, on the phone the other day. My mom asked to speak to him and jokingly said, You two aren t worth picking up out of the middle
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 20, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      I was talking to my buddy, David, on the phone the other day. My mom asked to
      speak to him and jokingly said,"You two aren't worth picking up out of the
      middle of the road"! The moment was humorous.

      But soon I had a thought that for those of us who finally realized the truth
      about eckankar and its founder and subsequent history of its succeeding
      "masters" has a bit of spiritual road kill effect on us.

      I remember my early days as an eckist. Man, I was psyched-up, excited and
      really "on fire" for the new path I found. I was even a bit giddy about it at
      first. But now.................

      I suppose the gratitude I have about eckankar is that I will be more
      discerning about outer paths and masters in the future. I think that maybe in
      a wierd way my time with eckankar was not a total waste.

      I have learned about other yoga paths and teachers. But now a days, gone is
      the excited anticipation of fullfilment from an outer source. Although
      encouraging words issue in writ and comments from a master or swami, I simply
      do no bite the "line" as I use to. Indeed I am rarely impressed at all. Last
      Wednesday, I went to a Siddha Yoga center in my hometown. I was impressed by
      their meditation of On Nama Shivaya, "I honor my Higher Self". For me, I had
      immediate results of enetering that meditative state. But any more for me
      this is how it is, I find in few other places a certain method or technique
      that works for me and disregard the rest.

      This is what I mean by spiritual road kill. I find it hard to imagine that I
      will ever be guru giddy again, or aquire extreme loyalty to an outer path
      again.

      Good day !
      Randy



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • seraphim279@yahoo.com
      ... impressed by their meditation of On Nama Shivaya, I honor my Higher Self . Randy, I think we honor our higher self by not accepting any outer master, as I
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 21, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In eckankartruth@y..., rc1tn@a... wrote:

        > Wednesday, I went to a Siddha Yoga center in my hometown. I was
        impressed by their meditation of On Nama Shivaya, "I honor my Higher
        Self".

        Randy, I think we honor our higher self by not accepting any outer
        master, as I mentioned, I believe that God would not put its'
        consciousness into the body of a human any more than we would
        put ours in a grubworm.

        I find it hard to imagine that I will ever be guru giddy again, or
        aquire extreme loyalty to an outer path again.

        And I as well... I hope Sandra catches this spirit of reality MUCH
        sooner than I did!! I am so envious of ex-eckists who can take
        advantage of this forum... * Heavy Sigh * {:/

        -Larry ( Three Cheers and a Pegasus for Thee )
      • Sharon
        ... I agree totally in the sense that our Creator wouldn t just pick out one grubworm and say this was the Highest Grubworm in the Universe, and all the lowly
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 21, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In eckankartruth@y..., seraphim279@y... wrote:
          > --- In eckankartruth@y..., rc1tn@a... wrote:
          >
          > > Wednesday, I went to a Siddha Yoga center in my hometown. I was
          > impressed by their meditation of On Nama Shivaya, "I honor my Higher
          > Self".
          >
          > Randy, I think we honor our higher self by not accepting any outer
          > master, as I mentioned, I believe that God would not put its'
          > consciousness into the body of a human any more than we would
          > put ours in a grubworm.
          >


          I agree totally in the sense that our Creator wouldn't just pick out
          one grubworm and say this was the Highest Grubworm in the Universe,
          and all the lowly grubworms have to join the Head Grubworm's secret
          club!

          I don't know if I could love a grubworm, but I'm sure the Creator
          does. To me, any kind of worm is just fishbait, or food for the frog...and now the turtle! My turtle had his first live meal
          tonight. Until now, I've only fed him pellets. But since I've
          caught turtles on worms, well...I tried it.

          He was, believe it or not, happy!!! Hard to believe a turtle could
          show joy, but believe me...there *was* a definite reaction!

          You know...of course I didn't create them, but I still love my pets,
          and I'm sure the Creator loves all creations equally...just as I love
          my dog, turtle, and frog equally, but sort of relate to them differently. And humans aren't that great, exactly, when you consider that to the predators of the world, we're just another food source.
          I remember a lynx at a zoo, whose eyes fell on the smallest of our party...my little niece. Its eyes never left her.



          > I find it hard to imagine that I will ever be guru giddy again, or aquire extreme loyalty to an outer path again.
          >

          Don't be too hard on yourself, Larry. After all, it was the love & goodness in your own heart that sent you searching for your own Highest Self...and ultimately, got you out of the cult.

          When I was an eckist, I remember telling a "detractor" something like maybe eckankar was a cult for some, but not for me. And I was still
          basically a "true believer" at the time.

          I think it's a lot more fun, sort of, to get excited about *many* gurus, or at least any truths they have to offer...and not to think
          of them as anything other than teachers.

          Now...eckankar may say that's what it's about, but it's not. I think
          we all know *exactly* what they teach...all that elitism and
          arrogance. And...Klemp's certainly a pretty pitiful teacher of any
          kind, in my opinion. Actually, he might have made a half-decent Lutheran pastor. I like the Lutherans.

          But...that's what the cult does to a lot of people who may have started out meaning well, unfortunately.


          > And I as well... I hope Sandra catches this spirit of reality MUCH
          > sooner than I did!! I am so envious of ex-eckists who can take
          > advantage of this forum... * Heavy Sigh * {:/
          >

          Why are you envious? You're here, aren't you?


          > -Larry ( Three Cheers and a Pegasus for Thee )


          Pegasus? Hmmmm....horse...manure...garden...my hyacinths are
          coming up!!! Beautiful snowflakes this morning...
          but it *is* officially Spring!!!!

          You know, when you think about it...actually, what we've all
          done is just sort of lived the "Wizard of Oz" ... but without
          the neat outfits & munchkins!!

          Amazing, isn't it?

          Hugs,

          Sharon
        • tarryrob@yahoo.ca
          Greetings One and All: It s been a few days since I picked up my e-mail at Yahoo. When I finally got around to it, I was absolutely knocked out by the number
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 26, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Greetings One and All:

            It's been a few days since I picked up my e-mail at Yahoo. When I
            finally got around to it, I was absolutely knocked out by the number
            of posts both here and at other eck/cult related sites! There's a
            heightened energy and awareness out there that's great to observe.
            There's tangible evidence of the effect such as Sandra's recent
            withdrawal from the cult and in eckist/cultists desperate attempt to
            post ANYTHING (ie on eckankarhistory) simply to move off the numerous
            anti-cult posts. There are SOO many great posts, I hardly no where to
            begin. I don't want to post a mini essay, so I'll touch on a dialogue
            that Larry, Randy and Sharon have been that has some paticular
            interest for me. I'll pick it up at Sharon's response to Randy and
            Larry:

            --- In eckankartruth@y..., "Sharon" <brighttigress@y...> wrote:
            > --- In eckankartruth@y..., seraphim279@y... wrote:
            > > --- In eckankartruth@y..., rc1tn@a... wrote:
            > >
            > > > Wednesday, I went to a Siddha Yoga center in my hometown. I was
            > > impressed by their meditation of On Nama Shivaya, "I honor my
            Higher
            > > Self".
            > >
            > > Randy, I think we honor our higher self by not accepting any
            outer
            > > master, as I mentioned, I believe that God would not put its'
            > > consciousness into the body of a human any more than we would
            > > put ours in a grubworm.

            Sharon, I totally understand your concerns for Randy (or any other
            former cultist), falling out of the frying pan into the fire. This
            was the same advice you (and others) gave me when I first left
            eckankar and very sound advice it was! However, I do think at some
            point (this point would vary from person to person depending upon
            their healing process - definitely not a step for those who've just
            recently left a cult!)it's a good idea to go back and find out what
            might have useful in the eckankar's teachings - to deseminate the
            good from the bad! Afterall, Twitch ripped off many authentic
            spiritual teachings. For me( and I suspect for many others), it was
            these "borrowed" authentic aspects of eckankar which initially got us
            on board and helped keep us there(along with the brainwashing
            techniques of course!). Aspects of eckankar's teachings did work for
            me - unquestionably! Now, having spent a great deal of time boning up
            on cult mind control techniques et al.., I'm now trying to weed
            through what was good and what was bad. Gaining a solid background in
            cult techniques helps develop the necessary healthy scepticism, but,
            to paraphrase Mick, I refuse to let eckankult cause me to become
            jaded towards God! I don't know where this search will lead me - but
            it could possibly be to some other path (with or without masters -
            I'd regard them as teachers not godmen) - who knows!!! "Reality"
            might take the form of eastern mysticism, Catholicism, occultism,
            paganism, etc..... I find fascinating aspects in all of them!!
            Thanks to you (and others here at eckankartruth and elsewhere) I'm
            daily learning to trust myself again and my ability to make informed
            choices. That's what really counts! To quote Pete Townsend "I won't
            get fooled again!"

            Larry said:

            > > I find it hard to imagine that I will ever be guru giddy
            again, or aquire extreme loyalty to an outer path again.
            > >
            >Sharon responded:

            > Don't be too hard on yourself, Larry. After all, it was the love &
            goodness in your own heart that sent you searching for your own
            Highest Self...and ultimately, got you out of the cult.
            >
            > When I was an eckist, I remember telling a "detractor" something
            like maybe eckankar was a cult for some, but not for me. And I was
            still
            > basically a "true believer" at the time.
            >
            > I think it's a lot more fun, sort of, to get excited about *many*
            gurus, or at least any truths they have to offer...and not to think
            > of them as anything other than teachers.

            Larry, I've read many of your postings, and judging by the quality
            and quantity of your work, your clearly a very caring, thoughtful and
            supportive individual - qualities which proably brought you to
            eckankar in the first place. Don't let those SOB's at eckankar make
            you overly cynical!! A natural part of the healing process is to go
            through the old "once bitten twice shy" syndrome! I know I did! I
            felt betrayed, naieve, hurt,etc.. ... However, at the very same time,
            I had an equally strong urge to join up with the first spiritual
            group that caught my curiosity. Talk about being pulled in two
            totally different directions!! I later realized both reactions were
            different sides of the same coin - a need for a sense of security! On
            the one hand, I didn't want to get burned again but still felt the
            need for the security and companionship of being in a group.
            Fortunately, like yourself, I found sites like Sharon's which have
            helped me get informed and begin the deprogramming process! I'm at a
            point now where I beginning to cautiously trust again (my own
            judgement, other people, notions of "god")- I found it's been a real
            watershed in my healing process. I'm not suggesting you either need
            or ought to become "guru-giddy" again, but I think there are some
            honest teachers and some legitimate teachings that might be worth
            exploring.


            tarryrob
          • seraphim279@yahoo.com
            ... it s a good idea to go back and find out what ... us on board and helped keep us there(along with the brainwashing ... for me - unquestionably! Now, having
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 26, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In eckankartruth@y..., tarryrob@y... wrote:
              it's a good idea to go back and find out what
              > might have useful in the eckankar's teachings - to deseminate the
              > good from the bad! Afterall, Twitch ripped off many authentic
              > spiritual teachings. For me( and I suspect for many others), it was
              > these "borrowed" authentic aspects of eckankar which initially got
              us on board and helped keep us there(along with the brainwashing
              > techniques of course!). Aspects of eckankar's teachings did work
              for me - unquestionably! Now, having spent a great deal of time
              boning up on cult mind control techniques et al.., I'm now trying to
              weed through what was good and what was bad.

              Howdy Tarryrob, many fine points expressed here... 5 years ago I
              posted this on the Neural Surfer...
              http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/ex-eck.html

              My views have changed very little since then.... also when I reply
              in this forum I better point specifically to who I'm replying to
              and what it was I said.... I'm given credit for things someone else
              either replied to or I responded to... :D

              Gotta Go, my wife's a hollerin' that breakfast is ready! Yum...

              -Larry
            • tarryrob@yahoo.ca
              -Dear Larry: I checked out your post at Neural Surfer. Thanks for the link. Bang on the money! I couldn t have summed it up any better myself. It s quite a
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 28, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                -Dear Larry:

                I checked out your post at Neural Surfer. Thanks for the link. Bang
                on the money! I couldn't have summed it up any better myself. It's
                quite a tightrope act to find out what might have been authentic in
                eckankar while at the same time becoming progressively aware of all
                the lies, misrepresentations and mind control techniques they've used
                (and continue to use) on their members. It took me a while to get to
                the point where I was ready to go back and look at the old discourses
                and books. When I first left, I just wanted to burn them or give them
                to someone like David Lane (I have a lot of real old out of
                publication stuff). However, as an academic, I knew at some point I
                might put them to better purpose by entering the great debates at
                eckankarhistory, ARE and elsewhere. When I first left, I was to full
                of anger, mistust and dissapointment to think about rereading
                discourses. Instead, I spent my time boning up on eckankar's true
                background (via david, sharon et al, cult awareness and reading about
                how other former eckists dealt with the experience. Gradually, I got
                to the point where I was felt stable and experienced enough to start
                doing posts myself and entered the debates at eckankarhistory (still
                haven't posted at ARE - just not ready to deal with all that
                nastiness). To debate at eckankar history, I had to start rereading
                the books and discourse in order to find quotes to back up my points.
                It was a pretty heady experience rereading that stuff for the first
                time in my deprogrammed state. As I began deconstructing the prose
                and uncovering the lies, threats, manipulations, rip-offs, etc....
                for myself, rather than feel angry, I actually began to enjoy the
                process. It was in the midst of doing this debate research that I
                began thinking about investigating the authentic spiritual teachings
                that eckankar used/stole from legit paths. On the advice of Sharon,
                Jan and others, I had stopped using almost all eck related excercises
                for a time. I never chanted and limited my use of excercise to non-
                eck relaxation and visual techniques. I really missed using many of
                the excercises, but I realized I had to get deprogrammed before I
                could think of attempting them again. I knew about eckankar's close
                connection with Sat Mat from David's work. However, the last thing I
                wanted to do was jump into a teaching that worshipped it's leader
                even more fantically than eck did it's master (no masters please -
                just teachers!). Fortunately, despite eckankar, I retained a strong
                sense of God within my heart. I remain convinced that my faith (along
                with a measure of reason, logic, scientific method and common sense)
                can help me sort the wheat from the chaff and help me find truth. I
                still have an urge to seek despite Sharon urging me to "stop worrying
                about the big questions and just enjoy life." But, I'm in no hurry,
                and I have learned to enjoy the life, and the process (rather than
                the just the end product) of discovery. Time to feed my kid and cats
                - keep up the good posts Larry! 'Nuff said!

                tarryrob

                Larry said:
                > Howdy Tarryrob, many fine points expressed here... 5 years ago I
                > posted this on the Neural Surfer...
                > http://members.tripod.com/~dlane5/ex-eck.html
                >
                > My views have changed very little since then.... also when I reply
                > in this forum I better point specifically to who I'm replying to
                > and what it was I said.... I'm given credit for things someone else
                > either replied to or I responded to... :D
                >
                > Gotta Go, my wife's a hollerin' that breakfast is ready! Yum...
                >
                > -Larry
              • seraphim279@yahoo.com
                ... I m in no hurry, and I have learned to enjoy the life, and the process (rather than the just the end product) of discovery. Time to feed my kid and cats
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 28, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In eckankartruth@y..., tarryrob@y... wrote:
                  I'm in no hurry, and I have learned to enjoy the life, and the
                  process (rather than the just the end product) of discovery. Time to
                  feed my kid and cats

                  Howdy Tarryrob!
                  Ahhhhh, if only I had your balance.... you'd think after 5 years
                  I'd be cooling off... I thought I had but actually I was just
                  trying to ignore the facts I needed so badly to face and correct.
                  I will follow your natural wisdom as best I can and be in no hurry,
                  enjoy lifes processes and keep discovering new jewels in the posts
                  here.... keep up YOUR good posts! :D
                  My kids are grown up and gone but I get to feed my dog and ferret..
                  Yaaaaayyyyyy!
                  -Larry ( Three Cheers and a Tiger for Thee! )
                • tarryrob@yahoo.ca
                  Hi Everyone: I see the posts are still coming fast and furious. Great to see! Sandra, although this letter is a directed at Larry, you may find some of the
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 30, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Everyone:

                    I see the posts are still coming fast and furious. Great to see!
                    Sandra, although this letter is a directed at Larry, you may find
                    some of the info and techniques useful as per your request.

                    Larry, I appreciated the encouragement. You wrote in your last
                    response:

                    > Ahhhhh, if only I had your balance.... you'd think after 5 years
                    > I'd be cooling off... I thought I had but actually I was just
                    > trying to ignore the facts I needed so badly to face and correct.

                    Believe me Larry, I'm FAR from being "balanced." I'm not even sure I
                    know what the word means anymore outside of the repressed self-
                    opiated eckankar definition. I'm busy dealing with mood swings,
                    deprogramming, reprogramming etc.... the same as you and most others
                    here at eckankartruth. I've read some of your earlier posts, and can
                    appreciate why you have so much anger. The eck HI's really gave you
                    a bad time even prior to your leaving - i.e. supposedly inappropriate
                    posts on ARE, etc.... (sounds similar to the difficulties Sandra had
                    with HI's prior to her resignation). I left under more fortunate
                    circumstances. When I discovered Lane's expose on Twitch, I was busy
                    with post-graduate work, a new born daughter as well as my regular
                    teaching work. My involvement with the centre had already decreased
                    substantially. After checking on the validity of Lane's work, my way
                    of dealing with it was to simply cease my involvement with the local
                    centre altogether, stop reading transcripts/books/chanting/journaling
                    and to let my membership lapse. I replaced spiritual excercises with
                    relaxation, imagery, organization and goalsetting techniques that I
                    learned in a study workshop at university. They helped keep me
                    grounded and focused. I think my busy schedule really helped keep me
                    stabilized as well. As a new daddy particularly, I HAD to keep it
                    together!! In short, I repriorized! Eckankar became backburnered and
                    I went cold turkey! Since my schedule's slowed down, a lot of the
                    negative emotion and and unresolved issues have crept back
                    (especially when I read about what other former member's have gone
                    through!!). My first step(at the urge of Sharon), was to finally to
                    formally resign form eckankar (which I finally did this past
                    January). I find reading and posting (that writing thang to which you
                    refer Sandra!) at the various sites(Sharon's David's, Jan's, ARE..)
                    helps me to work through a lot of stuff. They provide information,
                    support, act as a reflective tool (especially if you interact) and an
                    opportunity to vent!! Unfortunately, cult recovery is not an exact
                    science. The years and level of involvement differ as well as the
                    degree of trauma. There are a great many techniques out there which
                    work (some long term - some short). But each person has to find
                    techniques that work for them to suit their particular needs and
                    position in the recovery process. Warning! Warning! - I'm lapsing
                    into teacher mode, so I'll wrap up for now. Time to nag my daughter
                    into clean her room! There's a reality check for ya!

                    tarryrob
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.