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8361Re: [eckankartruth] Re: the whole truth....I think not

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  • David Osborn
    Aug 4, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Etznab,

      I was watching a very good two part documentary on The Reconstruction of the US after the civil war.  One of the characters who figured prominently in the documentary's narrative was a Mississippi riverboat captain, and early fighter for equal rights for black people - I forget his first name, but his last name was Twitchell.  From the old photos of him, I could see a family resemblance to Paul.  This guy was quite a remarkable character - when swimming and grasping for the hull of a lifeboat in the Mississippi, this Twitchell guy had both of his arms shot off by a southern sympathizer and went belly up, and left for dead, but he miraculously survived, without both arms.  I wonder if Paul was descended from him.

      David

      --- On Sat, 8/4/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:

      From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
      Subject: [eckankartruth] Re: the whole truth....I think not
      To: eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, August 4, 2012, 3:46 PM

      "I do know that my Grandmother divorced Jacob according to her because she had found out that Jacob had a common-law wife in PaducahKY and that there relationship went back many many years, and I do know that they had a child, possible this woman was Pauls real mother, my memory is fuzzy concerning Grandmothers account but the divorce had something to do with Jacobs relationship to this other woman. My Grandmother remarried Jacob in 1959 after he had ended his relationship to with the common-law wife or the issue was settled. I have just found a hand written account by my grandmother of her marriages and there dates.
      1. Loy D Sweat, Married 6/19/1926 until death 12/24/1949
      2. Jacob N Twitchell Married 7/24/1950 in Corinth Mississippi, Divorced 6/5/58

      ***

      This common law wife ... how far did this go back? How far is "many, many years"?

      Effie Troutman Twitchell died in 1940 & Douglas Street's Grandmother married Jacob Noah Twitchell in 1950?

      So if J.N. Twitchell had a child by some common-law wife, one would need to determine

      (1)

      What was that common-law wife's name?

      (2)

      Did the relationship go back before 1940?

      (3) In fact, did it go back to 1909 (when Paul was born)?

      Does anybody know the name for this alleged common-law wife?

      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, DAVIDP111@... wrote:
      >
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      > Sorry, Paul Twitchell's birthday in the Twitchell family bible is October 23, 1908 (NOT 2008!!!!).  my mistake
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: davidp111 <davidp111@...>
      > To: dss93 <dss93@...>; eckankartruth <eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Sun, Jul 8, 2012 9:01 pm
      > Subject: Re: the whole truth....I think not
      >
      >
      >
      > Can't remember her name, but was Paul's cousin that delivered him TO HIS MOTHER, Effie.  She was there.  Per the family, Paul's father was a ladies man and who knows who else had his children, but Paul was born to Effie.I spent weeks in Paducah and in southern Indiana with John (paul's nephew), Mattie, Paul's sister in law and other Twitchell relatives and in Oregon with Camille, Paul's first wife.  I met his high school principal who was 99 years old and rememberd Paul well. Met with several of his class mates and his high school English teacher. This was all before anyone heard of David Lane and his manuscript.  The issue of who his mother was, per the woman who delivered him is well established in the Twitchell family.  I've seen the Twitchell family bible which his cousin wrote in her own hand, the one who delivered him, his birthday is October 23, 2008.  he was born after midnight.  I can't think of the cousin's name, but she was present with her family when she swore she deliverd Paul when he was born.   The Twitchell family when I knew them, later 1970's were up in arms over the lies in In My Soul.  Per Mattie, when Paul's mother died she begged to see him but he said he couldn't go because he didn't have gas money.  Mattie and Howard gave Paul money and offered to drive him but he wouldn't go.

      > Paul printed up a postcard and sent out years later of the home of his birthplace.  A house he never lived in, per the Twitchells.  Even then he fabricated, it was of a fine stately house.  I forget the address, but Mattie took me to the house he was delivered in, somewhere in boxes I have pictures of it. I even have the original negative of that postcard set up of the house he claimed be been born in.  Paul's grandmother lived next door to an Eckist I knew back in the late 1960's so word was always out that Twitch was from Paducah, not sure why others didn't check up on it all.  Howard looked so much like Paul, pics all over in the highschool of the two. At the time I just picked up a phone book and started calling Twitchells listed.  I had no idea at that time what a load of lies I was about to uncover.

      > Are you John's son??  If so, I met you too, you were late/middle teens when I was at their house in Indiana
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Doug Street <dss93@...>
      > To: DAVIDP111 <DAVIDP111@...>
      > Sent: Sun, Jul 8, 2012 7:54 am
      > Subject: the whole truth....I think not
      >
      >
      > David I take you points about verification, I understand, but here I set 30 mile from where it all begain and with full knowlage that Uncle Paul was mentally unstable, but just for fun here is some useful dialog between Doug Marmon and myself some years ago, at the time I had run across his "little known publications" and basically his "whole truth" was not.
      > hope it helps you som e way. Also my aunt Kay  passed away a few years ago so that has changed and uncle Loren "buddy" passed just a few months ago, this frees me up from a family stand point if you can understand that kind of thing.

      >
      > Re: Administrator: paul twitchell���
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      > 12/06/07
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      >  Doug Marman
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      > From:
      > Doug Marman (Doug@...)
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      > Sent:
      > Thu 12/06/07 7:06 AM
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      > To:
      > Doug Street (dougstreet@...)
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      > Doug,
      >
      > Thanks for your response. Jacob saying that Paul was not Effie's son seems to make more sense, and is consistent with what Paul said.
      >
      > The story about why your grandmother divorced Jacob was amazing. I hadn't heard anything about this before. That would be fascinating if it turned out to be Paul's birth mother he was living with.
      >
      > Thanks also for the photo. That's a good one of Jacob.
      >
      > I agree that the strange confusion over Paul's birth date is probably related to his being born to another woman. This is probably also why he decided to stop mentioning his birth date and deciding he was going to rise above the whole thing and not let it define who he was.
      >
      > It's all interesting, although it is hard to say for sure.
      >
      > Thanks for filling in some of the pieces.
      >
      > Doug.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From:Doug Street
      > To: Doug Marman
      > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:32 AM
      > Subject: RE: Administrator: paul twitchell
      >
      >
      > Hello Doug,
      > I am not 100% sure about what my Grandmother Ermal Leta had told me concerning Pauls biological relationship to Jacob. After much thought I now believe that she had told me that Paul was Jacobs son but that Jacobs wife Effie was not his biological mother, Im just not sure. I do know that my Grandmother divorced Jacob according to her because she had found out that Jacob had a common-law wife in PaducahKY and that there relationship went back many many years, and I do know that they had a child, possible this woman was Pauls real mother, my memory is fuzzy concerning Grandmothers account but the divorce had something to do with Jacobs relationship to this other woman. My Grandmother remarried Jacob in 1959 after he had ended his relationship to with the common-law wife or the issue was settled. I have just found a hand written account by my grandmother of her marriages and there dates.
      > 1. Loy D Sweat, Married 6/19/1926 until death 12/24/1949
      > 2. Jacob N Twitchell Married 7/24/1950 in Corinth Mississippi, Divorced 6/5/58
      > 3. N/A
      > 4. Jacob N twitchell Married 7/20/1959 in Metropolis IL, until death 3/24/1961
      > 5. N/A
      > 6. N/A
      > 7. N/A
      > I have excluded the names of her other husbands, most of them she buried.
      > My Mom Freda Helen Sweat Twitchell was born Jan 9th 1941, died April of 1993
      > My Aunt Eleta Kay Sweat Twitchell was born Jan 13th 1944, still living
      > My grandmother had seven children by Loy Douglas Sweat
      > 1. Lois, passed away
      > 2. Loren
      > 3. Leonard, passed away
      > 4. Bobby, passed away
      > 5. Billy, closest to my mothers age but died in a car accident when he was 12
      > 6. Freda, passed away
      > 7. Kay
      > The older boys had joined the military and the oldest girl Lois had married when Grandmother married Jacob. The Sweat boys of the family were notorius for there unruly conduct after there father passed away and this was sited to me as the reason for Jacob to adopt the girls.
      > Now concerning the 1910 birth date, Grandmother had told me her and Paul were the same ages so if Paul was 6 months old in the 1910 census that was pretty close and sounds reasonable. Also I would venture to guess that if Pauls biological mother was not Effie it must have been the Common-law wife from Paducah and Jacob took him in, this would also explain to me why the 1912 birth date may have been just a guess or a bit of confusion by Jacob when he went to get the birth certificate for Paul and why the birth certificate did not exsist before hand.
      > Also Jacob Noah Twitchells nick name was �"Jack�" not Jake family called him �"daddy Jack�"
      >
      > I'm sending you a photo of Jacob Noah Twitchell, age is 30ish maybe a side by side comparison of Paul and Jacobs photos could say something.
      >
      >
      >
      > From: Doug@...
      > To: dougstreet@...
      > Subject: Fw: Administrator: paul twitchell
      > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:16:56 -0800
      >
      >
      > Doug,
      >
      > Karen forwarded your message on to me. Thanks for writing.
      >
      > What you've written is very interesting.
      >
      > It's been a while since I went through this information, so I'd like to ask a few questions, if it is okay with you, to clear up some things.
      >
      > First, if I remember correctly, Jacob Twitchell adopted two children after marrying your grandmother. This was after Effie Twitchell died. Am I remembering this correctly? Was Freda the youngest, or second youngest?
      >
      > And do I remember correctly that there was an older child of your grandmother's that Jacob did not adopt?
      >
      > If I've gotten this right, do you know why Jacob adopted Freda but not the older child? I didn't see any information that explained this, so I was wondering. From what you said below, it was your aunt who was the younger of the two.
      >
      > Also, how long after or before Effie Twitchell died was it before Freda was born? How long after your mother was born before Jacob married your grandmother? If I remember correctly, it was your aunt who was the one who was born about eight months after Effie died, not your mother, and your mother was a number of years older by then, but it has been too long since I read this information.
      >
      > Like I said, it has been a while, and I would have to dig through boxes of files I have to find this, so I was wondering if you knew or could shed some more light on these things. It helps to paint more color onto the black and white picture I have of what happened back then. I've seen only scattered little facts, and it isn't always easy to piece them together.
      >
      > The idea that your aunt might have been Jacob's child, came from a report I read on someone who had studied the facts a lot closer than I had. It was a report that I ran across in the Paducah library files.
      >
      > By the way, what you said your grandmother told you about Paul not being Jacob's son is interesting. I would imagine that if she told you that, that she must have heard this from Jacob. I can't imagine any other way she would know something like that. Did you get that impression as well? Is it Jacob that told her this?
      >
      > Unfortunately, the information she told you about Paul being born in 1910 is wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if Jacob also told her that, since he was on record as getting Paul's birthdate wrong. He once said it was 1912. But I've seen the 1910 US Census that was taken in the spring of 1910, and it listed Paul as a baby 6 months old, so there is no way he could have been born in 1910. Everyone seems to agree that he was born in October, but two family bibles in the Twitchell family were wrong on the year. One said 1910, the other 1908. One said it was October 22, the other said October 23. There is also a dispute over whether his full name was John Paul Twitchell or Jacob Paul Twitchell.
      >
      > All of this does seem to suggest that your grandmother was right and Paul was not born into the Twitchell family, which is why so many facts would be unknown. But it is always hard to know for sure. If you can remember any more about this, it would be nice to hear.
      >
      > Thanks for sharing this information. It helps to fill in some blank spots. It sounds as if Jacob was a generous man to support these children, who he took in as his own.
      >
      > Thanks again for writing, and if you can recall anything more, I'd love to hear it.
      >
      > Doug Marman.
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Karen at Spiritual Dialogues Project
      > To: Doug Marman
      > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:57 PM
      > Subject: Fw: Administrator: paul twitchell
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Doug Street
      > To: Karen at Spiritual Dialogues Project
      > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:10 PM
      > Subject: RE: Administrator: paul twitchell
      >
      >
      >
      > Thats right Karen, Freda Helen wasn't Jacob's child she and my aunt Kay were adopted by Jacob Twitchell when my grandmother married him. There father Loy had died and left my grandmother with the two young girls and very poor but with a little bit of property, the rest of the children were older and had left home. My mom was the 'spitting image' of her Father Loy and I myself have the typical Loy Sweat features.
      >
      > If remmeber correctly Paul twitchell wasn't Jacobs child either according to my granny, also she told me that Paul was born the same year as her 1910.
      >
      >
      >
      > > From: Karen@...
      > > To: dougstreet@...
      > > Subject: Re: Administrator: paul twitchell
      > > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:28:51 -0800
      > >
      > > I don't understand. What does he mean - that Freda wasn't Jacob's child?
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: 'Doug Street' <dougstreet@...>
      > > To: <karen@...>
      > > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 5:32 AM
      > > Subject: Administrator: paul twitchell
      > >
      > >
      > > > This is an enquiry e-mail via http://spiritualdialogues.com from:
      > > > Doug Street <dougstreet@...>
      > > >
      > > > I am the grandson of Jacob Noah Twitchell, My mother 'freda' was adopted
      > > > by Jacob. her father was Loy Douglas Sweat, My grandmother Leta passed
      > > > away in 2004 at the age of 94. I just want to set the record straight that
      > > > my mother and my aunt, her younger sister were not Jacob Twitchells
      > > > biological children. ? how do I know, All seven of the sweat children
      > > > favor there father Loy. My mother 'freda' Freda Helen passed away in 1993
      > > > at the age of 53.
      > > > Now theres some 'truth'
      > > > cell no. 618-771-xxxx
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > __________ NOD32 2689 (20071127) Information __________
      > > >
      > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
      > > > http://www.eset.com
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >




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