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7971Re: Eckankar belongs in The Onion and God

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  • prometheus_973
    Nov 5, 2010
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      Hello All,
      I found the conversation interesting
      and thought I'd share my views.

      In regard to a "personal" God? Which
      one? Or, is this a new/different one
      or a new version than what's been
      advertised and promoted? Isn't this
      similar to "American Idol" worship?
      Or, are We our own "personal God?"

      My beliefs have been formed by
      both objective and subjective criteria.
      Both compliment each other. The
      objective gives me feedback in order
      to have/see or identify the subjective
      experience more clearly and to have
      a "spiritual knowingness," or revelation.
      Sometimes these are rather insignificant
      and other times (less often) they are
      moments where everything is perfect
      and in its rightful place in the Universe.
      It's hard to explain and I'm still uncertain
      as to my role... maybe it's a private
      thing. Each of us has to have our own
      journey, but it's sometimes connected
      to the journey of another to a degree
      that makes a difference or not. Sometimes
      a negative leads to a positive... and
      vice versa, and sometimes a positive
      action equals a positive result but
      nothing is as it seems!

      Yes, I do believe in Soul and Spirit
      and that there are nudges and intuition
      coming from Soul. Therefore, there's
      no middleman involved except for
      what I see as me/my "Higher Self."
      Perhaps, one could say that this/my
      Higher Self (Soul) is my "personal God."
      Thus, I AM.... a part of this Divine
      experience/experiment or Whatever.
      Religions are for those who have
      surrendered and given up hope of
      ever achieving Self Mastery, "God"
      Knowledge, and Spiritual Freedom.

      At first religion does offer some
      positives in that it gets people to
      think about the divine and to explore
      their inner selves. It gives people
      spiritual baby food and then, later,
      some meat that has already been
      chewed by others. Religion never
      gives the individual the freedom
      to find and chew this spiritual meat
      on their own because the religious
      leaders fear that the sheep might
      leave the confines of the teachings.

      Religionists are slaves of dogma
      and are the servants of men... conmen!

      I find it interesting, that in ECKankar,
      Eckists claim to be Soul and then
      they take a subservient position
      under Klemp (their Mahanta/God)
      when all Souls are considered equal.

      Klemp even degrades Eckists (as
      Mohammad did to women) by
      referring to them as animals, of
      various types. Klemp refers to his
      flock (of sheep) as: eagles, chickens,
      and foxes while detractors (other
      Souls) are spoken of as being weeds
      and bugs. Such is Klemp's (the Mahanta's)
      all encompassing "love." Klemp can't
      even follow the example of Jesus
      (supposedly a 2nd initiate and HK's
      boyhood friend). Didn't Jesus say,
      "Love thy enemy" and "If struck, turn
      the other cheek."

      And, why do Eckists have an obsession
      with Animal Angels? Where are the
      human ones... their dead loved ones?
      Where are these "stories," or would
      they compete with Klemp's influence?
      It seems that this Animal Angel ruse
      is another distraction so that Eckists
      won't ask the more important questions.


      al_radzik wrote:


      How can you say that a personal god is ridiculous? Nobody but nobody knows the true essence of God. WE are all just bozos on the bus and there is no inside scoop. WE can all get well-read like Campbell and know intimately the tenets of different faiths all over the world but frankly, it's whatever works for YOU and YOU alone. I'm kind of surprised at your statement being that I've always respected your views.


      harrisonferrel wrote:

      As per usual, I agree with you, Leaf. The problem is that people are quick to criticize how crazy eckankar, scientology or every other religion, but they won't look closely enough at their own beliefs. You have to be pretty bold to be objective.

      "tomleafeater" wrote:

      Thank you Harrison!

      Yes! The Taoists don't believe in "god" but in a non-sentient "Way." Likewise, essentially pure Buddhist philosophy doesn't have a "god" per se, but rather speaks of the Void.

      The personal god concept is ridiculous. Just ridiculous.


      harrison ferrel wrote:

      When we start talking about god, we go off on another completely unprovable, subjective, unsubstantiated tangent. The idea of a god is as nuts as eckankar, so it's just an exchange of ideologies. We either have to see that human beings have been behind these cults, religions and belief systems or not. There's no middle ground. People create deities and have done so since the beginning of human time. The belief in god is as absurd as the belief in anything that eckankar says.

      al_radzik wrote:

      David Osborn wrote:

      Hello Al,

      That may have been your experience and perception of things, and there may be a lot of truth in what you say.  Perhaps for many, perhaps for the vast majority of us, it may be  stroking their sense of entitlement, ego and its delusions of grandeur.  But throughout history, there have been genuine, magnificently reallized mystics and men of God who have succeeded in finding the Divine, and in gaining direct personal experience of God.  Their path may have not been an easy cakewalk of self entitlement, but through inner spiritual struggle and persistence, they did succeed.  To flat out say that it is impossible and nothing more than a big delusion would be too limiting, I feel, on the human Spirit, and on God ITself. 

      This is very true but God can only be a personal and subjective experience. You can FEEL God exists but you cannot KNOW" God. Feelings are not facts. You may be a spark of the Divine but the WHOLE God will never be revealed in totality. This is true with EVERY religion. Mysticism bores me. In context with Eckankar, it is secretive and seductive. It has no value. On the other hand, prayer and meditation are valuable tools. PS: Why does Eckankar have SUNDAY WORSHIP? Who do they worship? IT sounds contradictory and why is it on Sunday? Sounds like a backpedal and a ruse to appear like a traditional Christain church to get followers.

      Native ability in spirituality and mystical realization is, I feel, similar to msuical or any other kind of talent.  Many may have a bit of it, or even a moderate or modest amount, but only few possess magnificent, sublime gifts.  And those, if they are genuine, are not egotistical about it with a sense of self entitlement or self absorption, but truly seek to use their gift to help others along the spiritual path. 

      Yes. I feel my own gift of music is not from myself but through me. This is a manifestation of a higher power. Again, not inside knowledge of how God works through my talent. You just know you're tuned in. you can't see the DJ.

      I'm sorry to burst your bubble of cynicism, but from my experience, this is what I perceive to be the reality.  Eckankar, especially in its outer, organizational aspect, may have a lot of failings, and it even may be an outright sham, which again fits in with my personal experience.  But that is not to say that all spirituality and mystical experience is also a sham.  Call me a Pollyana, or even a secret Eckmole, but I assure you, I am none of these 
      things.  Yet, neither am I a hardened cynic; personal experience has shown me that God and Spirit are real. 

      I may not know God but I am closer to knowing Eckankar and it doesn't take too much to realize it is a scam. I won't go into the endless proof that it is a plagiarised and well-crafted organization, but I seriously do not believe for a moment that Paul Twitchell and Harji really care(d) as much about your soul as much as the $30 membership fee in your wallet. Cynicism? It is from well-grounded reason and skepticism that I post.
      One more question. Are you an active Eckist? Why do you sign off with "May the blessings be"? Just curious.


      May the Blessings Be,

      al_radzik wrote:

      I agree...and I love the Onion! In my short stint with Eckankar back in 1985, one of the many books I read was Tiger's Fang. I initially thought it was quite engaging and believed it was a true account of the other "planes". In hindsight, my Bullshit Meter went off and truly questioned WHY i was falling for this stuff. I wanted it MY way and that's not how God works. I wanted God to behave as I WANTED God to behave. I I I I. It was all a big ego trip. Eckankar tells you that you ARE (or can be) closer to God than any other human on Earth. I recall there being a slogan on an ECK book saying we can "Touch the hem of God". That is, to know God. We cannot know God. We are the created....God is the Creator. Eckankar keeps it's members by stroking their selfishness and sense of entitlement.

      harrison ferrel wrote:

      Eckankar is really such a joke that it deserves a featured headline in The Onion.

      Being out of the cult for many years now, I find the beliefs, claims and writings of eckankar to be so silly that it's hard to imagine anybody takes any of it serious. Those of us who questioned this stuff while in the cult then eventually left because we never got satisfying answers, will be the first to admit that it all sounds like a the ravings of a committee of lunatics.

      To have a relative still in the cult never makes me stop scratching my head in wonder.
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