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6886Re: [eckankartruth] Continuing Re:Sharon now Caught by the Ideology

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  • colleen
    Dec 1, 2007
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      I am aware of Alice Miller's and other's focus on not
      forcing a state of forgivenenss (or any other state)
      on clients or patients...I certainly agree. This isn't
      a dialogue here between client and therapist however.
      I was expressing my opinion about the similarities
      between "us" and "them" when we were entrenched in our
      belief that as "eckists" we were the "chosen ones" and
      outsiders were under the illusion of the negative
      force.

      From my perspective, I don't have any information that
      points to anyone posting here recently as a
      perpetrator of abuse.

      I appreciate your opinion, and I'm jumping into the
      discussion here, not as a moderator/facilitator of the
      other group I began. If I have written something that
      leads to you feel unsafe in any way, this wasn't my
      intent and I apologize for any discomfort I may have
      inadvertently caused you.

      Colleen




      Colleen

      (of abuse, but that is my opinion.

      Colleen
      --- tygerpurr <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      > Actually, Colleen, I think you are missing a very
      > important part of
      > Alice Millers writings and research. She spoke out
      > quite often about
      > the diservice and even damage that some
      > Psychotherapists would do by
      > attempting to force a state of forgiveness onto a
      > patient, which is
      > usually about the guilt feelings of the perpetrator.
      > I see ek Trolls
      > as obviously Perpetrators who are still continuing
      > to do harm, and I
      > believe that they should be confronted when they
      > attempt to do so.
      > They are still trying to blame the victim, something
      > you have written
      > about in the past. It is obvious that
      > "city.summer"'s post is that of
      > an ek Troll. I remember when I was in your Yahoo
      > group to to support
      > those who had left eckankarp. Sometimes you could be
      > very direct with
      > Trolls and those trying to proselytize and even ban
      > them from the
      > group. I thought this was very appropriate at the
      > time. This made me
      > feel safe in the group.
      >
      > The truth, imo, is that most perpetrators are or
      > should be getting
      > therapy or rehabilitation behind bars. Personally, I
      > feel that it
      > should be more about rehabilitation than punishment.
      >
      >
      > Maybe someone should start a group for ek Trolls. :
      > ) But maybe that
      > would be A.R.E and not eckankartruth.
      >
      > Tygerpurr
      >
      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen
      > Russell"
      > <colleenmft@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Tygerpurr and All...
      > >
      > > I just read your post, Tygerpurr and what I find
      > missing is the
      > > acknowledgement that "we" were once "them" so that
      > compassion toward
      > > understanding how "they" are victimes of thought
      > reform includes
      > > compassion for ourselves and our own experience.
      > When I was
      > > functioning as a Mahdis, I thought anyone who
      > viewed Eckankar as a
      > > cult was delusional, as I had internalized
      > Eckankar's ideology, as
      > > Alice Miller describes in "identification with the
      > aggressor" who, I
      > > believe, was no other than the Living Eck Master
      > and others who
      > > complied with his control. I've found from my own
      > and others
      > > expeience as former members that it can take years
      > to disconfirm the
      > > deeply-held, inaccurate, self-limiting beliefs
      > acquired in Eckankar.
      > > As I began to break through my denial and
      > rationalizations so that I
      > > could psychologically and physically leave the
      > org, the process was
      > > at times very frightening. Situations would arise
      > that triggered what
      > > ws "right" or "wrong" according to the LEM 's
      > dictates. I had a
      > > choice to comply with the self-limiting beliefs or
      > break free from
      > > them for my self-development.
      > >
      > > The person who came here and commented was helpful
      > in initiating this
      > > discussion. I don't know if she/he is genuine or
      > a troll.
      > >
      > > If someone genuinely wants to leave Eckankar and
      > heal from its
      > > abuses, each has, as we know, his/her own plan or
      > process.
      > > Confronting someone about the deception too
      > harshly could possibly
      > > push them back to some degree into the grip of the
      > thought reform.
      > > Educating about Eckankar's deception and the
      > process of thought
      > > reform can be helpful when it can be accepted,
      > through a process of
      > > accessing the degree to which a person is open to
      > reality.
      > >
      > > Colleen
      > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr
      > <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Leaf,
      > > >
      > > > I'm not sure where you are coming from. WHy
      > would compassion and
      > > > speaking out necessarily "always be mutually
      > exclusive"? You've lost
      > > > me here. I guess where i'm coming from is
      > probably frustration with
      > > > these Eckist Trolls who will continue to appear,
      > and their purpose
      > > is
      > > > to simply disrupt any anti ek talk. They would
      > I'm sure love it if
      > > > these groups disappeared and then they could
      > dance a deluded jig and
      > > > then continue to spread the ek fraud dogma,
      > unabated.
      > > >
      > > > I suppose, that the answer to your question has
      > more to do with the
      > > > context of the situation. I am not a Saint nor
      > do I claim to be God
      > > or
      > > > Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for
      > these eckist and
      > > > execkists to think they are or ever will be.
      > IMHO this is a huge
      > > > inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument
      > of sorts is just the
      > > > right medicine. Opposition when in a state of
      > extreme delusion may
      > > at
      > > > times be best. Always being nice may not be the
      > best approach.
      > > Shaming
      > > > and insulting said person may not be wise, but
      > then we are human and
      > > > this happens even against our best intentions.
      > Understanding this,
      > > is
      > > > to me a form of Compassion that may be an
      > antidote to what is really
      > > > going on, which is a form of Self-hate.
      > > >
      > > > Understanding and compassion and speaking out
      > against child abuse,
      > > for
      > > > example can be a complex endvour, and it may be
      > very worthwhile.
      > > Have
      > > > you read any of Alice Miller's books? There is
      > one "For YOur Own
      > > Good"
      > > > that even discusses HItler and I think she has
      > also written about
      > > > Stalin from a psycho/social perspective. She
      > points out that some
      > > > choose a destructive path, while others may
      > choose the creative and
      > > > artistic. What makes the difference?
      > > >
      > > > For myself, the context of a message board is
      > quite different than a
      > > > Psychotherapeutic session. As far as say HItler
      > what if he had lived
      > > > in a society or slightly different situation in
      > which he was taught
      > > > some level of kindness towards mankind. ON the
      > other hand, we may
      > > have
      > > > been a lot better off if he had been just
      > assasinted early on in his
      > > > political career.
      > > >
      > > > I was not trying to direct my post at you
      > personally, just giving my
      > > > own take on things, and the funny thing is that
      > this "city.summer"
      > > > person probably is not even reading any of this
      > as we may think.
      > > That
      > > > is what Trolls do. But then others may be
      > getting something out of
      > > it
      > > > and may actually leave the ek org. : )
      > > >
      > > > I'm glad you are still posting here and I
      > actually liked what you
      > > had
      > > > to say, friend.
      > > >
      > > > Tygerpurr ; )
      > > > Re: Sharon will hate this i suppose
      > > >
      > > > Hi Tygerpurr:
      > > >
      >
      === message truncated ===


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