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6882Continuing Re:Sharon now Caught by the Ideology

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  • tygerpurr
    Dec 1, 2007
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      Actually, Colleen, I think you are missing a very important part of
      Alice Millers writings and research. She spoke out quite often about
      the diservice and even damage that some Psychotherapists would do by
      attempting to force a state of forgiveness onto a patient, which is
      usually about the guilt feelings of the perpetrator. I see ek Trolls
      as obviously Perpetrators who are still continuing to do harm, and I
      believe that they should be confronted when they attempt to do so.
      They are still trying to blame the victim, something you have written
      about in the past. It is obvious that "city.summer"'s post is that of
      an ek Troll. I remember when I was in your Yahoo group to to support
      those who had left eckankarp. Sometimes you could be very direct with
      Trolls and those trying to proselytize and even ban them from the
      group. I thought this was very appropriate at the time. This made me
      feel safe in the group.

      The truth, imo, is that most perpetrators are or should be getting
      therapy or rehabilitation behind bars. Personally, I feel that it
      should be more about rehabilitation than punishment.

      Maybe someone should start a group for ek Trolls. : ) But maybe that
      would be A.R.E and not eckankartruth.

      Tygerpurr

      --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "Colleen Russell"
      <colleenmft@...> wrote:
      >
      > Tygerpurr and All...
      >
      > I just read your post, Tygerpurr and what I find missing is the
      > acknowledgement that "we" were once "them" so that compassion toward
      > understanding how "they" are victimes of thought reform includes
      > compassion for ourselves and our own experience. When I was
      > functioning as a Mahdis, I thought anyone who viewed Eckankar as a
      > cult was delusional, as I had internalized Eckankar's ideology, as
      > Alice Miller describes in "identification with the aggressor" who, I
      > believe, was no other than the Living Eck Master and others who
      > complied with his control. I've found from my own and others
      > expeience as former members that it can take years to disconfirm the
      > deeply-held, inaccurate, self-limiting beliefs acquired in Eckankar.
      > As I began to break through my denial and rationalizations so that I
      > could psychologically and physically leave the org, the process was
      > at times very frightening. Situations would arise that triggered what
      > ws "right" or "wrong" according to the LEM 's dictates. I had a
      > choice to comply with the self-limiting beliefs or break free from
      > them for my self-development.
      >
      > The person who came here and commented was helpful in initiating this
      > discussion. I don't know if she/he is genuine or a troll.
      >
      > If someone genuinely wants to leave Eckankar and heal from its
      > abuses, each has, as we know, his/her own plan or process.
      > Confronting someone about the deception too harshly could possibly
      > push them back to some degree into the grip of the thought reform.
      > Educating about Eckankar's deception and the process of thought
      > reform can be helpful when it can be accepted, through a process of
      > accessing the degree to which a person is open to reality.
      >
      > Colleen
      > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Leaf,
      > >
      > > I'm not sure where you are coming from. WHy would compassion and
      > > speaking out necessarily "always be mutually exclusive"? You've lost
      > > me here. I guess where i'm coming from is probably frustration with
      > > these Eckist Trolls who will continue to appear, and their purpose
      > is
      > > to simply disrupt any anti ek talk. They would I'm sure love it if
      > > these groups disappeared and then they could dance a deluded jig and
      > > then continue to spread the ek fraud dogma, unabated.
      > >
      > > I suppose, that the answer to your question has more to do with the
      > > context of the situation. I am not a Saint nor do I claim to be God
      > or
      > > Self Realized and I think it is a mistake for these eckist and
      > > execkists to think they are or ever will be. IMHO this is a huge
      > > inflated "Ego" and sometimes a normal argument of sorts is just the
      > > right medicine. Opposition when in a state of extreme delusion may
      > at
      > > times be best. Always being nice may not be the best approach.
      > Shaming
      > > and insulting said person may not be wise, but then we are human and
      > > this happens even against our best intentions. Understanding this,
      > is
      > > to me a form of Compassion that may be an antidote to what is really
      > > going on, which is a form of Self-hate.
      > >
      > > Understanding and compassion and speaking out against child abuse,
      > for
      > > example can be a complex endvour, and it may be very worthwhile.
      > Have
      > > you read any of Alice Miller's books? There is one "For YOur Own
      > Good"
      > > that even discusses HItler and I think she has also written about
      > > Stalin from a psycho/social perspective. She points out that some
      > > choose a destructive path, while others may choose the creative and
      > > artistic. What makes the difference?
      > >
      > > For myself, the context of a message board is quite different than a
      > > Psychotherapeutic session. As far as say HItler what if he had lived
      > > in a society or slightly different situation in which he was taught
      > > some level of kindness towards mankind. ON the other hand, we may
      > have
      > > been a lot better off if he had been just assasinted early on in his
      > > political career.
      > >
      > > I was not trying to direct my post at you personally, just giving my
      > > own take on things, and the funny thing is that this "city.summer"
      > > person probably is not even reading any of this as we may think.
      > That
      > > is what Trolls do. But then others may be getting something out of
      > it
      > > and may actually leave the ek org. : )
      > >
      > > I'm glad you are still posting here and I actually liked what you
      > had
      > > to say, friend.
      > >
      > > Tygerpurr ; )
      > > Re: Sharon will hate this i suppose
      > >
      > > Hi Tygerpurr:
      > >
      > > Regarding this comment you made:
      > >
      > > I believe in compassion and understanding when it comes to mental
      > > > illness and even truely bad people (like not believing in the
      > death
      > > > penalty), but I also believe that it is right to speak out against
      > > > FRAUD and PATHOLOGICAL LIARS, etc. and to do something to stop
      > those
      > > > who choose to do harm, even if it means something as simple as
      > > telling
      > > > someone that they are wrong and why.
      > >
      > >
      > > In your view, are these two approaches, one of having compassion,
      > and
      > > one of speaking out against lies, always mutually exclusive, or do
      > > you feel that in some cases the two approaches could be effectively
      > > combined?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, tygerpurr <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I don't know who "city.summer" is but usually when someone says
      > > > something like "I don't mean to offend you" or "with all due
      > > respect",
      > > > it is a fair warning that they know they are intentionally being
      > > > offensive, mean or disrespectful. I recently spoke with someone
      > > about
      > > > how difficult it is to talk to a die hard Eckist who actually
      > > believes
      > > > that Harold Klemp IS the INcarnation of God, and he said that we
      > > > should have tolerance for all religions? I asked him if he felt
      > the
      > > > same way about the Nazi Religion. This smacks of just plain
      > apathy.
      > > >
      > > > I believe in compassion and understanding when it comes to mental
      > > > illness and even truely bad people (like not believing in the
      > death
      > > > penalty), but I also believe that it is right to speak out against
      > > > FRAUD and PATHOLOGICAL LIARS, etc. and to do something to stop
      > those
      > > > who choose to do harm, even if it means something as simple as
      > > telling
      > > > someone that they are wrong and why.
      > > >
      > > > "city.summer" really should get some help and stop supporting
      > > > Fraudulant malicious Cults like Eckankar.
      > > >
      > > > QUESTION AUTHORITY!!!
      > > >
      > > > Tygerpurr ; )
      > > >
      > > > --- In eckankartruth@yahoogroups.com, "city.summer" <city.summer@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi Sharon,
      > > > > I see that you still know what is being sold on ebay concerning
      > > > > Eckankar. Does that mean that you are still interested? If so
      > why
      > > > > don`t you go the whole way and apply for membership again????
      > > Don`t
      > > > > mistake me and don`t piss me off in your response. It is logical
      > > to
      > > > > become a member in your case as you are still reading all the
      > > stuff.
      > > > > You can do it with awareness, read it in a different way. You
      > > don`t
      > > > > want to be known by the others? Do you have a second name then
      > > you
      > > > > might want to use that. If you`re in trouble with the courses
      > ask
      > > > > someone for help. you know colleen you know leaf and Alf they
      > can
      > > > > assist, no???????????????!!
      > > > > CĀ“mon you still love it otherwise you wouldn`t bother.
      > > > > Hahaha. Yes I am laughing.
      > > > > If someone has a fear of dog`s for example or hates dog`s the
      > > only
      > > > > real cure is (eventually) to face the dog again, then the
      > problem
      > > can
      > > > > fade...
      > > > > Love
      > > > > Summer
      > > > > in the winter.
      > > > > Over here in Europe we had the first snow today.
      > > > > That`s why I escaped into a cafe and found internet, because it
      > > was
      > > > > too fuckinĀ“ cold on the bike.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > >
      >
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