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2325Re: Eckist returns

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  • violinmike2002 <violinmike2002@yahoo.com>
    Dec 16, 2002
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      For me Paul Twitchell was like a carpenter- No one believed it
      but he built a piece of furniture that cobbled together as it may be
      has stood and served millions for over 35 years. Having never met
      Paul Twitchell I can only assume that you have or have chosen to
      believe all the second hand information about him. No one ever
      offered to teach me spiritual secrets of mastership before I dont
      feel qualified to judge the benefits of intitiations, I am results
      oriented I try and judge results for myself. I never would have
      joined any other eastern group other than Transcendental Meditation--
      do that too much and you'll be pretty much useless but mellow I don't
      give my support to lies deceit and manipulation to me I am
      responsible for what I do including being open minded enough(maybe
      just barely)to consider alternate opinions. Eckankar is wrong for you
      but you've even grown from your negative association with it. I saw
      hundreds of your posts and nobody spoke in a voice like mine cult
      swamped as you may think it is .
      I have a better angle on dreams I usually dismissed as
      mutterings of the subconscious. I still think some of them are but
      some of them are much more
      Cult smult when and if I get to that day or point I'll deal with
      it like everything else I have. Some book somewhere we have says were
      no better than anyone else. Sadly many do puff themselves up I do
      believe in inner experiences of the sound and light and want to
      continue in them .
      Alf is your leader. I enjoyed that. I liked that show. I
      believe it was cancelled many years ago. No doubt theres a network
      somewhere running it. That was funny. You have pointed out one of my
      flaws however I don't get out much. I don't even have a car the bus
      has to get me places. Thank god for the internet the bastion of truth
      Yahoo and the Aol way! I thought we had millions of members but how
      would I know as I said I dont get out much.
      Are my parents supporting a Catholic church that is rife with
      abuse of alterboys as well as male dominant worship,empire vatican
      building and world overpopulation when they toddle off to Christmas
      eve mass?I have some opinions but its really not my place to say. I
      can say I am a guest in your house I believe an honest one without
      malice. But Alf was a master of the smart retort.
      Are or were Darwin Gross Paul Twitchell and Harold Klemp the
      masters of nothing? Can't say I've really met any of them. If Mr
      Gross couldnt move forward and front a sucessful new group then the
      plane he spent the most time on was the Fragile Plane.
      I would be interested in what Kramer or other top people have to
      say . Perhaps what Lane and others write had created an over reaction
      at the top levels. Be assured the membership will drink no spiked
      koolaid. Around here yes we got the leave Eckankar in your will
      mailing I believe once a year we are asked for these solications for
      temple building etc. You can even get a boy scout badge in Eckankar.
      I am not coerced to support things. Earth has a whole lot of
      religions spiritual groups that want money. The salvation army has
      set up a kettle in our neighborhood state run liquor store. Motto the
      immortal words of Bto taking care of business EVeryday!
      Scientology now thats a scary organization. Wouldnt go near it
      with a ten foot pole. Millionare actors like Tom Cruise and that guy
      in Battlefield Earth, whatshisname. Must make note not to go to
      movies with them in em might be supporting Scientology.
      I never told myself I was chosen or special.I realize youre not
      really talking to me but playing to the gallery here. Do you really
      think all my experiences were fantasy and self delusion? How harsh.
      How sad.No path apparently teaches how to be kind. Loved Yogadanadana
      joke posting have printed it out. Laugh every time I read it.
      Said I wasn't a fanatic. Ask what you can do for the cult how
      many religions want you to carry the cross, or jihad etc. Just say no
      way Jose. No doubt someone else wants to have a wack at me but I
      asked for it.Eckankar is in your past now and that is as should be
      for you and your many posters. Your reflections on allowing my posts
      are commendable. You dont just talk but walk your walk moderator. I
      am a guest in your house, a vocal one but not one who will burn the
      house down or soil the linen. Happy winter soltise like holiday..>"
      <violinmike2002@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > If you dont go nuts over it I don't see anything harmful in
      > > Eckankar.
      >
      > That's your choice. Some people object to lies, deceit,
      plagiarism, manipulation, etc.
      >
      >
      >
      > Some local groups have wingnut HI's so stay away from the
      > > centers if you don't like them.
      >
      > Perhaps "the mahanta" should practice that "inner" stuff until he
      gets it right, and stops promoting these wackos to positions of
      authority, and stroking their arrogant cultic egos with phony,
      meaningless "initiations".
      >
      > (And believe me, when I was a member I rationalized these things
      just as *you* are no doubt doing.)
      >
      >
      > > Maybe like the cowardly lion I found
      > > my courage using the tools they taught me.
      >
      > Yep, there's much spiritual truth in The Wizard of Oz.
      >
      >
      > > I never accept anything
      > > blindly and never did.
      >
      > But...you are a member, and therefore give your support to lies,
      deceit, and manipulation.
      >
      >
      >
      > Dream study is an ancient tradition useful as
      > > spiritual study.
      >
      > Yes, and you don't need cult membership to study your dreams.
      >
      >
      > >I've read many coercive cults and this isnt one to
      > > me.
      >
      > It wasn't a cult to me either, back in '98. Which is why I got out
      quickly when it was absolutely *proven* to be a cult.
      >
      >
      > >Human beings argue and sue each other and Eckists are still human
      > > beings.
      >
      >
      > Well, there are *many* find human beings in the world who live good
      and moral lives without cult initiation & "status". Of course,
      they're not "ready" for those high holey secret spirichul "teachings"
      you get with cult membership....
      >
      >
      >
      > > Harold accounts for his actions re Darwin Gross in Soul
      > > travels of the far country.
      >
      > Yeah, and Harold also attributes a psychotic break and suicidal
      behavior to "god-realization".
      >
      > Harold rationalizes a sleazy office affair & dumping his family by
      thinking he's the equivalent of a 16-year-old on Viagra.
      >
      > After spending hours shredding paper and trying to flush the
      toilet...
      >
      > It gets really ridiculous when you get out and see it for what it
      is, Mike.
      >
      >
      > > If Darwin Gross was such a great leader
      > > his own ATOM group would have turned into a major force.
      >
      > Have you seen any of Twitch's old wild predictions of millions of
      members by now?
      >
      > Hmmmm....using your logic, Mike, the Roman Catholic Church *and*
      Islam have a heck of a lot more "holy spirit power"!
      >
      >
      > >I dont send
      > > all my money to Minnesota and several years didn't meet the
      donation
      > > level for membership and they still kept me.
      >
      > Hey, if you ever leave, this statement will be turned against you,
      as it was with me!! I had to beg for freebie membership my last year
      in the cult.
      >
      > The "teachings" say you can pay with money, service (recruiting),
      or suffering.
      >
      > "In the same way that one serves the ECK by putting the name
      forward in signs, bumper stickers, T-shirts, jewelry, etc., and makes
      the name common, so too can those serve who have only money to give
      and cannot go about actively." Paul Twitchell, Letters to a Chela
      >
      > Klemp has gotten a bit "classier" - you received that glossy color
      brochure telling members how to remember the cult in their wills,
      retirement funds, etc., didn't you?
      >
      > Tithing is preferred - the official "donations" policy is in the
      files section here. BTW - Todd Cramer, former VP, evidently found
      that the preponderance of what you call "wingnuts" had sort of snuk
      into the Temple Itself, and preferred to leave the cult.
      >
      >
      >
      > Paul Twitchell was a
      > > lovable rogue who plagerized perhaps but suggests you too can be
      a
      > > master and visit invisible realms.
      >
      > Paul Twitchell had that fake personality you often find in
      successful salespeople - like dishonest used car salesmen. He lucked
      out and got himself a tender young wife - a very ambitious one.
      Sadly, he wasn't very good at holding a job and making a living.
      So...he declared himself God & started a cult. I wonder if he was at
      the Hollywood party where L. Ron Hubbard concocted $cientology?
      Probably not - anyway, Harlan Ellison is one of my favorite authors,
      and I *love* this story: http://www.amazing.com/scientology/harlan-
      ellison.html
      >
      > It's not just the plagiarism, it's claiming that tons of
      plagiarized stuff was "dictated by eckmasters".
      >
      >
      >
      > > Being in Eckankar helped me
      > > weather loneliness, bankrupcy, a crappy telemarketing job for
      three
      > > years,an operation that was frightening and enhanced my
      creativity.
      >
      > When life sucks, fantasy, self-hypnotism, and telling yourself
      you're "chosen" and "special" can help, huh?
      >
      > That's what Twitch did, too. He wrote somewhere about walking on a
      beach (I think) having a pity party when KABOOM!!! He realized his
      miserable life was because he was in training to be GODMAN!!! <ggg>
      >
      > Bullshit.
      >
      >
      > > Golden tongue wisdom is practiced by shamans and many other
      > > spiritually aware beings.
      >
      > Sure, but e-kult goes a bit too far with this, and with the
      importance of dreams. Why? Because it has nothing of REAL substance
      in it.
      >
      >
      >
      > > The bottom line is am I getting something
      > > of value here that is compatable with my goals as a spiritual
      person.
      >
      > SHAME ON YOU, MIKE!!! I can give you eckquotes. Basically, ask
      not what the cult can do for you; ask what you can do for the cult.
      Twitch used this line after JFK, and Klemp often says the same thing.
      >
      >
      >
      > > Inner experiences just seem like a dream if you only stay in this
      > > world.
      >
      > Escapism. You can be totally in this world and have fun in others,
      too. Without cult membership.
      >
      >
      > In short for me,for the last seven years its been positive . I
      > > make up my own mind no one directs me or coerces me.I suppose if
      > > youre a zealot its harmful but I think at least is benign and not
      > > dangerous.
      >
      > Gee, you sound just like me & most other former members, when we
      were members! <ggg>
      >
      >
      > > I will monitor this site for useful imformation.
      >
      > I hope someone posts some! <ggg>
      >
      >
      >
      > > Whether
      > > Harold and Bin Laden are connected is not useful information.
      >
      > True, but Alf is my Master and therefore has special posting
      privileges. Anyway, there is great spiritual wisdom there, for those
      who are "ready" and can perceive the "inner" wisdom.
      >
      > I think Alf is a much better Master than Harold. Alf knows better
      than to spend hours trying to flush shredded paper down the toilet.
      Alf would have called maintenance if it was shredded paper. If the
      toilet was blocked by "something else" I'm sure he would have kindly
      & compassionately just asked for a plunger & unblocked it himself.
      And if Alf were confronted by soul-stealing witches & warlocks at a
      haunted European hotel, believe me, he could take care of the problem
      all by himself, thank you, although I would hope he'd let his Humble
      Serving Wench come along for laughs. He wouldn't have to check out
      the next morning. <ggg>
      >
      > BTW, have you seen the website selling Osama Bin Laden toilet paper
      for $2.99 a roll? I would NEVER pay that much for something that
      gets flushed!!! Except...I paid a lot more for the cult's
      discourses, and they're too rough to use for toilet paper. About the
      only thing they're good for is exposing the cult's silliness
      to "seekers".
      >
      > Well, Mike, sorry if I sound "snippy" but I'm sort of burned out on
      all this, and in "real" life it's just a distant & laughable memory.
      It's only my appreciation for other former members who spoke out &
      helped me wake up that keeps me doing this, but at this point I'd
      rather just do a more comprehensive website.
      >
      > I'm hoping some of our more polite and intelligent members might
      find time to respond. You can also do a search of the Google a.r.e.
      archives if you like - okay, a few who come to mind who are
      exceptionally good are Lurk, Joe, Leafeater, Sworddancer, Catlist,
      SivaRi, and my mind has gone blank, but there are many more. Seek
      and ye shall find. (That's from Klemp's favorite Dead Book.)
      >
      >
      > >Baraka Bashad
      >
      > I prefer "Have a nice day!", thank you! Of course, for eckists I
      qualify that with "if so choose to, because you may choose to have a
      bad day for spiritual growth or to work off karma, and I wouldn't
      want to interfere & basically practice black magic by wishing you
      well!
      >
      > <giggle> Seriously, the above isn't "me" - it's from an old
      discussion back in Chela Chat when I was a member.
      >
      > So...this is one of many reasons why I'm not posting much publicly
      anymore - although I flip into "defECKator" mode quite easily, it's
      old and I'm boring myself, although I still giggle at my snotty self,
      I'd rather be doing other things. Today, it's setting up my new
      softside waterbed - got a good deal on the internet, but I was a bit
      surprised when it arrived in three boxes. <ggg> Well, it'll still
      be a lot faster & easier than moving around the big old waterbed,
      which is also becoming more difficult to get out of as I age.
      >
      > Bye!
      >
      > Ho Ho Hugs!!
      >
      > Sharon
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