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1017Re: Eerie Dream With Outer Occurrence

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  • Sharon
    Oct 2, 2001
      --- In eckankartruth@y..., carzann@w... wrote:
      > As I've said before, I never had dreams with Harold, Paul or about
      > eckancult until the one I shared here ... I'm really glad, now!

      I realize now my first "dream experience" with Klemp was simply
      psychic invasion....much like what he accuses "black magicians" of
      doing in one of the things I've often posted at a.r.e. He lied, he
      was deceptive, he <ggg> quoted the Bible which he says is "dead", and
      he tried to put me into a dark windowless room with a large-screen
      TV. I didn't want to go there. He was leading me downstairs, from a
      place of light where I was quite happy.

      Another odd one which I didn't understand until I got out, and was
      going over some old dreams I'd written down here and there, was back
      in the early 90's the week I was taking Arahata training, and had my
      3rd initiation. I was at a party with a bunch of people who looked
      very attractive, but I knew they were really basically false, and
      superficial. At the time, I was totally clueless about the true
      meaning of this dream.

      A really clear & vivid one, which needless to say confused me as an
      eckist, was somewhere in the last years. I was in a dark damp
      unpleasant alley, under a stairway leading up, and Twitch was there
      leading a parade of dark, twisted-looking people. He looked at me
      and wanted me to join them. It was creepy.

      > my husband had two dreams in a row while I drafted our letters to
      > cancel our membership. He was genuinely angry with me when he'd
      > up from those dreams - he saw me sleeping with someone else in our
      > just waiting for him (my husband) to leave so the guy could take
      > I thought it was funny but that only made him angrier with me. It
      > was extremely peculiar behavior from him. Then it dawned on me!
      > insidious consciousness that Harold (and who knows who else) draws
      > upon to feed from, used the dream state to get through to my
      > in hopes of causing a splitup of sorts.

      Well, Klemp only pays lip service to any type of "family values", and
      *none* for the sanctity of marriage. I mean, he dropped his own
      first wife quickly enough when he hit that middle-aged boredom stage
      & started screwing around with #2, his assistant or secretary or
      whatever. I got a "funny" feeling when I read that the divorce was
      because #1 couldn't handle his masterly "power flows". <ggg>

      And personally, I have *no* respect for a woman who has so little
      respect for others that she messes around with a married man. I
      wonder if she's still working for him, and if she ever takes her eyes
      off him? I mean...if he screwed around on #1, more than likely he'll
      screw around on #2.

      I told him I was pretty wary
      > of any attacks that might come our way from breaking ties with this
      > group.

      Well, some people get attacks, and some don't.

      It's not even important, not even as annoying as those yappy little
      Chihuahuas who nip at your ankles.

      Especially since there was a hornet attack on my dog followed
      > by a dream of a hornet that stuck to my collar and tried to make a
      > nest in it. I had my guard up but my husband didn't. Realizing
      what was going on neutralized all anger and we haven't had anymore
      of those episodes.

      To be honest, I think it's a bit silly that your husband should
      get angry about a dream! But...that's what being in the cult can
      do to you.

      You know, these are all just symptoms. They'll pass. Don't pay
      too much attention to them, or give them any of your power.

      > But here's something interesting, I emailed the girlfriend who was
      > having doubts about eckankar's direction and about the controls
      being exerted.

      To tell the truth, the "changes" Klemp was making didn't bug me
      that much. I wasn't aware of the control, of course, or of the fact
      that the changes were simply a marketing tactic, to try to look
      more "mainstream" to get new members, since the old 60's "rebellion"
      stuff doesn't work anymore.

      The controls were always there.

      > She called me and asked if we were resigning from the org. She
      didn't seem to care one way or the other, but her husband (a newly
      made 5th) had a huge fit.

      So...your husband left, too!! Congrats to both of you!!

      And...this 5th had a fit? Funny, huh, considering the public
      baloney the cult likes to dish out about how it's okay if you leave,
      and Klemp wishes everyone well!! <ggg>

      > Not over my leaving - he's always thought of me as a lost cause
      and probably had resigned himself to the fact I'd leave sooner or
      later, but he was extremely bent about my husband's resignation.

      He thought of you as a lost cause? A bit judgmental of him, don't
      you think?

      > He was actually stunned and I'm sure it caused a flurry of
      activity for him paperwork wise and in some kind of accountability
      for it, since he's the one who ok'd my husband, Carl's initiation.

      So much for the bullshit in the "teachings" about initiations being a
      private & sacred matter between "master" and "chela", huh?

      > It was mean of me, but I drove the point home to them that
      eckankar was too embarrassing to be associated with. They'd lied,
      continued to cover-up the lies and HIs, RESAs and ESAs were actively
      launching attacks against ex-eckists. I asked them why eckists feel
      they need to defend that org with such agressive tactics
      > and if truth is truth, couldn't it stand alone?

      That was sort of my feeling when I went to a.r.e. as a good little

      > The only thing
      > answered was "these attacks are by individuals not sanctioned by
      the organization".

      What a total crock!!!!! In the EckGestapo (Group of Online Eckists),
      it was all about control, by HIs/RESAs/ESAs, like Doug Marman, for
      example. Harold's personal buddy!!! And...they kept in touch with
      the rest of us by laptop from one of those secret "High Initiate"
      seminars in Maryland!! At the time, I thought it was wonderful and

      They're not *officially* sanctioned by the Org, of course...sort of
      like Nixon's Plumbers!!! You know, when I was an eckie before I got
      on the internet, I always wondered about those "official disclaimers"
      the "Mystic World" and other cult publications told us had to be used
      on any "unofficial" cult member websites. It's to cover the cult's
      butt against possible legal action.

      > I disagreed saying nothing goes unreported to the org,
      > so the fact the attacks were still continuing means the office
      > does sanction them.

      Damn right!! Nathan Zafran was personally thanked by the org, and
      bragged about it. Sadly, he's no longer making public appearances,
      but I'll tell ya, he is a genuinely creepy & hateful person, who does
      a very good job at being "nice" to keep cult members in. He's a
      vicious slimeball otherwise.

      Did you read the archives here? Mick (pharmakon11) posted something
      awhile back about the "secret" ESA network that swaps stories & stuff
      about cult members. Yes, the Twitchster *did* take a lot from
      $cientology, which records its e-meter "confession" sessions with
      members and gathers ammunition use to threaten & intimidate them into
      silence should they ever decide to leave the cult. That's what the e-
      kult initiate reports are all about, you know.

      > I also decided to drive it home (albeit they're
      > innocent types) because I wanted that creepy ruling consciousness
      to get it.

      This is the sad part...the genuinely innocent people who are being
      used & controlled & manipulated by the cult.

      I miss being innocent, to be honest. But...my daughter used to tell
      me I needed to grow up. I miss it, though. My innocence, that is.

      > Here's the part I find interesting. I think the concern about my
      > husband's departure is sign of sorts. This 5th that recommended
      > Carl's initiation is a straight party-liner (so much so, after
      every email is the phrase "thank you mahanta!!")so when I talk to
      him or hear anything from him, I figure it's like talking directly
      on the phone to harold. It made me wonder about his concern over
      losing a "newbie" than someone who's been an eckist for 20 yrs, it
      indicates there must be quie a few long-timers who've left or are
      leaving. The unraveling of this sham must be going on at a greater
      rate than we know of.

      Hard to tell. People have been leaving for years, but now more &
      more are "coming out" about it, thanks to the internet. It's nothing
      that Twitch didn't foresee, and write mind-control garbage about...I
      recall one thing he wrote about how it may appear that those who
      leave have good & blessed lives, but oh boy are they gonna have to
      suffer in their next one!!

      > Those nasty attacks from the deluded idiots on a.r.e. are a great
      > gauge the factual information David Lane, you, Colleen and others
      have been presenting on that forum is working. It must be working
      very well! I wonder if the bubble machine is running out of soap?!

      A.R.E. has been helping people wake up & get out since it started,
      from what I understand. I am very thankful it was there! And you
      know, it wasn't anything written by David Lane or any "detractor"
      that convinced me. What really woke me up & got me out was the
      horrible hateful & controlling behavior and vicious attacks of the
      eckthugs (HIs & "clergy") there.

      I never really thought the plagiarism was important. It was quite
      awhile after I left that what it meant really sunk in.

      > Thanks for posting the information and websites, I followed up by
      > reading everything I could. I'm with you, I only wish I knew about
      it or had access to all this a long time ago!

      Hey, thank *you* for "going public"!!!

      I'm doing what I do because I wish I'd had the chance to see
      the "other side" 15 or so years ago, when I made the fatal mistake
      of picking up some eckbooks at the library and falling for it. And
      not a day goes by that I'm not thankful for the former members who
      hung in there at a.r.e., speaking out for others, and by their
      presence brought out the horrible fanaticism of the cult's leaders

      I have so many good memories...like all the laughs from Alf! You
      know, even if for some odd reason I'd stayed in the cult, I think
      we'd still be friends. He's that kind of guy. And Lurk, of
      course...so calm & sensible. Unlike me, he's got genuine class, and
      he's *so* polite!! And Kate, who's not around anymore.

      One of my most vivid memories is more than a month after I left, Joe
      (MahaVahana, or Vahana right now) took the time to go through the
      eckbooks and in early December of 1998, posted all the horrible fear
      & threat quotes from the Shariyat. I guess I skimmed over all that
      horrible stuff when I was a member, and just focused on the spacey

      The contrast between the former members and the rabid eckthugs was
      just too, too obvious. Maybe I would have preferred to stay
      eckanfogged, but...it was impossible. I don't understand how anyone
      can watch a.r.e. and not see the truth. You know, many members just
      can't handle it, it's too confusing, and they run away. I did that
      myself, you know. I first got on the internet at work right before
      Christmas 1996, found a.r.e., and just read it for a few days. It
      was quite upsetting...I couldn't understand how anyone could leave,
      or speak against it. A few months later I got my own computer, but I
      hid out in the closed ecklists. But in the back of my mind, a.r.e.
      was calling...except when I returned, it didn't turn out as I'd
      thought it would. It turned out so much better!!! I got free!!!!

      Anyway...you know, recently I've been thinking about the
      cult's "Hu"...and you know, isn't it a bit silly? Do we *really*
      need a "magic word" to talk to God? Of course not!!!! Good grief,
      I didn't even really *believe* in God, but just had
      genuine "experiences" for no particular reason. My curiousity about
      them got me sucked in and conned. God just knows, you know?

      Well...I've gotta run!!!


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