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RE: [SPAM] Re: [echocardiography] Re: Recertification

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  • Anne Bello
    I believe that having the credentials to show that you have the minimum knowledge necessary to perform as a sonographer is a no brainer. The new techs that can
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 1, 2008
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      I believe that having the credentials to show that you have the minimum knowledge necessary to perform as a sonographer is a no brainer. The new techs that can pass a test but not scan should be trained properly by their superiors like we were. Those that cant scan at all no matter what need to be filtered out by appropriate competency reviews.  Still, anyone that would hire a sonographer without letting that person scan first is taking a risk. The sonographer with 20 yrs experience should have seen this coming and buckle down, study, and show that he/she is perfectly capable of passing the test. Just my opinion; don’t mean to offend anyone.

      AB

       


      From: echocardiography@yahoogroups.com [mailto:echocardiography@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michelle Kelly
      Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:25 AM
      To: echocardiography@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SPAM] Re: [echocardiography] Re: Recertification

       

      In response to Katie's comment. Yes having certification is a wonderful thing, but what about the Songraphers that can pass a TEST and cannot do an echo if their life depended on it verses, the Songrapher that have been doing echoes for 20 years and is an Excellent songrapher.

      Bhibby@comcast. net wrote:
      <

      (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

    • Clifford Thornton
      Look, techs having to have to be accredited is a DONE DEAL. Nothing really left to discuss on this topic (although I d be interested to see what happens with
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Look, techs having to have to be accredited is a DONE DEAL. Nothing really left to discuss on this topic (although I'd be interested to see what happens with the re-cert).  Every other diagnostic field I believe (even masseuses require licensing!).  Those that are still protesting this are just singing in the wind. 
         
        I am sorry to those that let all those years pass and never even attempted the test and just got so far away from the academics that taking the test now is like climbing Mt. Everest.  But, it's just the way things are going.  I blame their employers for not prompting them more and letting people "slide" for so long and the whole "registry-eligible" thing/term did not help-- a made up term.  How would you like a pilot or home-builder who is registry-eligible? 
         
        We all know that being registered doesn't mean it's a gold stamp that the tech knows who to scan--- that's going to be the case with any license- does a driver's license means a person follows all of the traffic signs-- of course not!  But, is that a reason not to issue/require driver's licenses?  Of course not!  So let's stop beating this dead horse-- registry requirement is here in full-bloom and it's probably here to stay.  Patients and the insurance carrier demand quality and they should.  Registry is not perfect, but at least it's a step, maybe a filtering process in the least. 
         
        I thought that the competency sheet that is supposed to be signed by a registered tech or doc (if a registered tech isn't available such as in a rural area) which is now a requirement in the ARDMS application is supposed to demonstrate basic scanning competency.  Perhaps we should require at least 3 independent signatures (as many from registered tech as possible) to further bolster the meaning/credibility of this sheet. 
         
        But, there's only so much you can do.  Having a registered tech does not mean all your problems are solved.  Licensed stockbrockers advise the wrong stocks, licensed pilots crash planes, licensed captains run ships into icebergs, and we all know about the botched surgeries done by licensed surgeons-- but do you ever here the government or the media considering these licenses useless/without merit-- of course not! 
         
        These people using the trump card.....but a registry does not do "X"..........save your energy and your typing fingers.  This is a done deal.  It needs to happen, it's happening, it will continue to happen!  Now that that's said, can we PLEASE move on!?!  This horse is so dead that you wouldn't be able to find one molecule of meat left on it! 
         
        Thanks once again,
         
        Cliff

        Anne Bello <abello4@...> wrote:
        I believe that having the credentials to show that you have the minimum knowledge necessary to perform as a sonographer is a no brainer. The new techs that can pass a test but not scan should be trained properly by their superiors like we were. Those that cant scan at all no matter what need to be filtered out by appropriate competency reviews.  Still, anyone that would hire a sonographer without letting that person scan first is taking a risk. The sonographer with 20 yrs experience should have seen this coming and buckle down, study, and show that he/she is perfectly capable of passing the test. Just my opinion; don¬ít mean to offend anyone.
        AB

        From: echocardiography@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:echocardiog raphy@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Michelle Kelly
        Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:25 AM
        To: echocardiography@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [SPAM] Re: [echocardiography] Re: Recertification
        In response to Katie's comment. Yes having certification is a wonderful thing, but what about the Songraphers that can pass a TEST and cannot do an echo if their life depended on it verses, the Songrapher that have been doing echoes for 20 years and is an Excellent songrapher.

        Bhibby@comcast. net wrote:
        The recertification survey is one of the very few I did not receive, but I heard
        about it from my co-worker who did complete the survey.

        I am not sure how I feel about this--I do know that it has been a very long time
        since I did any radiology procedure and that is one registry I am supposedly
        credentialed to practice--the same for any adult echo procedure. My field of
        choice for a very long time has been pediatric and fetal echocardiography- -that
        takes all my time and effort I am not paid by my multiple registries-- I think
        that some of us have taken and passed different registries so we could add them
        to our resume and reap the benefits--for myself, I would not like to have to
        drop the things off my resume that I worked for and "earned" but I also know
        that I could not do a "real" x-ray exam nor could I complete a diagnostic adult
        echocardiogram. If it was my grandma who needed an echo, I would not be
        stepping forward to do that--I do know who I would grab, though.

        I have heard the physicians I work with talk about their re-cert exams-- must
        admit to thinking that it was a money thing--but I hear in their stories that
        these exams made them think about things they had not thought about in a very
        long time. Knowing that we would have to do a re-certification exam may make us
        all really pay attention to the CEU programs we say we attend--I know I have
        gone to a lot of educational things and some I pay attention to and some I
        socialize--

        Katie makes a very good point--I do not know how to cut out those people who
        have not taken the very first step to show that they have the knowledge to do a
        basic echo exam. Maybe now that the insurance companies have made a stand about
        paying for exams done in an accredited labs those that have skated by all
        these years will have to be accountable.

        I have seen all different levels of debate here about this issue--a little
        different slant here, another there--there will be those of us who take pride in
        what we do and strive to improve ourselves both professionally and personally.
        We all know the others who somehow side-step every so called safe guard--using
        charisma or whatever you want to call it to get by--and we all know that this
        includes both physicians and sonographers. These are the people who can take a
        test without blinking an eye--while some of us sweat out every single question.

        What I think I I have read in all the posts revolves around one common
        thing--and that is what makes me very proud of our profession. The simple fact
        is that most of us strive to insure we provide good, accurate, and compassionate
        patient care while providing accurate data which translates to successful case
        management. Regardless of what area of the country we work in or what imaging
        arena we find ourselves, ,that is our goal and we all have our own and sometimes unique safe guards in
        place to secure that fact. For me to sit in my little corner of the world and
        say that what someone does in rural America or in a busy urban ER is not the
        best use of my time nor will it change anything. In my old age I hope to be
        less judgmental-- keeping an open mind so I can learn from each offered
        experience. What a gift we all have in this forum because it gives us a way to
        share and share honestly what we encounter on a daily basis--it is in this
        sharing we give each other knowledge--which translates to power-which helps us all
        to make informed decisions that may have a very wide range of effects
        in areas we can only begin to imagine.

        I wish you all a very happy, healthy, and successful year ahead in 2008!

        Barb HIbdon
        Rocky Mountain Pediatric Cardiology
        Lone Tree, CO

        I have worked with people who test well and have certifications and initials
        behind their name--these initials cry out as you notice them on their lab
        coats--reminds me of something my Dad used to say--something like if someone has
        to tell you how smart they are--those people are not usually that smart.
        Hmmmm...I know that have worked with people who come to work every day, do the
        best studies on the planet and have no certifications behind their name at
        all--we can take tests and tests and more tests and some will score and some
        will not--

        There is no simple or easy answer because our practice is not only a reflection
        of our skill but a reflection of our artistry--shown in both our patient care
        and our images. I believe that the almighty insurance companies will make
        and/or break our labs and our profession. It will eventually get rid of those
        who cannot pass the accreditation process--it will also take out some of those
        who just panic at the thought of a "test."

        I am one of the lucky ones because I will retire from the profession soon--my
        concern now comes from anticipating being that patient on the exam table and
        praying that not only will the sonographer get the information needed but that
        information will be TOTALLY understood by the physician that must now take my
        care to the next step.

        If there has ever been a time in our profession that those of us who have had
        the opportunity to learn from those who really know and understand the images we
        provide every hour of every day to teach what we know, it is NOW--that includes
        passing on knowledge on all levels from things like the technical aspects of
        the Nyquist limits to simple patient care and ethics. How appropriate that I
        write this as 2007 ends and we all enter the new year--I hope I can brush off my
        writing tools and write a few articles that will teach the new sonographers
        entering our field--help them as I would help them if they came and spent a day
        or two in my lab observing how I work and care for my patients and their
        families.

        I have worked in different areas of our great country and I know that each area
        has different needs and expectations of the professional. Does that meet the
        standards that we all strive to meet? I have learned that every single word we
        speak has a very wide definition when you take into account who is
        listening--using who knows what type of filters for interpretation.

        Sometimes I have to step up on my soap box and lecture--thank you for allowing
        me to do that--and I hope that we all continue to share our thoughts, our
        experiences, and our passions for the future.

        Is recertification the answer? Obviously, I do not think so--it is only a very
        small part of the equation. It is up to all of us to share our knowledge and
        help each other grow--write, share, and grow as you take a risk by voicing your
        thoughts and opinions-encourage a new and different level of debate which may or
        may not give a new reader the courage to speak up and voice a their new and
        unique point of view.

        Thanks for the soap box time--may you all be blessed with a happy and healthy
        2008!

        Barb Hibdon
        Denver , CO

        ------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
        From: katie bittner <rdcs1959@yahoo. com>
        > Unfortunately there are still sonographers that arent registered the first
        time
        > yet. Im not sure if this will work until it beocmes mandatory in the field to
        be
        > registered by all insurance compamnies and employers.
        > Katie Bittner, rdcs,cct,fase
        > Detroit , MI
        >
        > Gerson Lichtenberg <gershomsl@gmail. com> wrote:
        > It is important that all voices be heard and opinions considered on
        > this issue. I would say that if you want to know the inside story, put out the
        > effort, contact the ARDMS asking to see their financial reports and
        volunteering
        > to help the work of the organization. It will give you a better perspective on
        > both the work and the expenses of the ARDMS.
        >
        > Have you ever had occasion to meet elderly physicians who don't actually have
        > any idea what it is that you do for a living? And then realized that they are
        > still seeing patients and are licensed to prescribe medications and order
        > procedures? Should they also not have to be recertified?
        >
        > Understand that it takes time to determine which newly developed diagnostic
        > procedures and criteria are actually there to stay and then to develop test
        > questions for them. Therefore, even people at facilities that might not
        practice
        > these techniques have time to become aware of them. How would the skills ever
        be
        > used at those facilities if the staff does not become aware of them? Again,
        > remember that registry is meant to demonstrate minimally acceptable
        proficiency,
        > not that the applicant is the top person in the field. Anybody that has a
        > complete enough knowledge of the field to be considered qualified to practice
        > should be able to qualify.
        >
        > If you don't feel that the ARDMS accomplishes this properly, volunteer to
        become
        > active in the organization. Let your educated opinions be known.
        >
        > Gershom Lichtenberg, RDCS
        > Haifa , Israel
        >
        > On Dec 25, 2007 7:26 AM, reality check <sparklexxxxx@ yahoo.com> wrote:
        > I must respectfully disagree.
        > You mention the changing diagnostic criteria that we sonographers are exposed
        to
        > ...........KEEP in mind that not ALL facilitys' follow suit in this updated
        > diagnostic realm..to expect that ALL be in the same arena ( per say ) at a
        > specific time and to test on this is just going a step TOO far.
        > No offense ,but I am of the opinion that the ARDMS is already a very
        profitable
        > CORP , for a NON PROFIT fCORP and I see this is a way only in which to gain
        more
        > capitol....I am not for this movement at all , for many reasons, but
        > specifically the two I addressed before you.
        >
        > Its very commendable to think that the ARDMS is there to HELP you as a
        > sonographer. ..but the reality is ...while it may have started out as way in
        > which to give sonogrpahers a NAME , a credential ; a way in which they could
        > demand a better salary , it appears that this concept is no longer the goal of
        > the corporation. I feel that the ARDMS , like any other corp business has an
        > accountant and are continually looking at the bottom line, that its not about
        > whats best for the group ,but whats best for the business and while they are
        > labeled a non profit corp , it would be interesting to see where all the cash
        > flow goes. I find it a little convienient that they have recently decided to
        > have the individual keep track of their own CME'S while warning that it is
        each
        > somographer' s responsibility to keep track of them and if audited and not
        > CURRENT there is a fines acessed . So in the small world of sonogrpahers I
        know
        > , several WERE in fact audited and fined as well. GRANTED it is
        > the responsibility of the individual to see that they are up to date on these
        > requirements, HOWEVER I find it just TOO ironic that in the small realm I am
        > familar with that so many would be audited and fined. It is questionable their
        > intentions and again see it as a means to further capitol for the non profit
        > corp.
        >
        > Obviously these are my personal opinions and I have many more I won't voice.
        >
        >
        > So to require Recertification : I have to say, to WHO'S beneifit will this
        > TRULY SERVE ? The only benneficiary I see on the receiving end is the ARDMS.
        >
        >
        > Ken <kd.horton@comcast. net> wrote: Gershom and all
        >
        > Merry Christmas to all!
        >
        > I firmly believe that recertification is needed in our field. It is a
        > requirement for our doctors and I think it should be for us
        > sonographers too. Echo is becoming increasingly complicated and is
        > an instrumental decsion making tool in the diagnosis and treatment of
        > critcially ill patients. Sonograpahers should be challenged to not
        > only maintain their skills but contuniually update them as technology
        > advances. Recertification would be a good way to ensure that we are
        > all keeping up with the changes.
        >
        > Ken Horton
        > Intermountain Health Care
        > Salt Lake City
        >
        > --- In echocardiography@ yahoogroups. com , "Gerson Lichtenberg"
        > <gershomsl@. ..> wrote:
        > >
        > > It is interesting that the ARDMS is beginning to investigate the
        > concept of
        > > recertification as discussed in the following piece:
        > > http://www.ardms. org/default. asp?contentID= 891
        > >
        > > As many of us have now been in the field for decades, it is
        > important that
        > > we demonstrate that we have maintained competency to protect our
        > patients
        > > as well as the meaning of our registry certificates. How do the
        > rest of you
        > > feel about this? Please note that the end of the ARDMS publication
        > also
        > > provides an e-mail address for response to the ARDMS. I think that
        > it is
        > > important that our community be heard from on this issue.
        > >
        > >
        > > Gershom Lichtenberg, RDCS
        > > Haifa , Israel
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
        > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE YOUR GOING, ANY ROAD WILL TAKE YOU THERE.
        >
        > KATIE
        >
        >
        > <a href="http://www.stopglob alwarming. org" target="blank" ><img
        >
        src="http://msglblwarm. vo.llnwd. net/o16/assets/ banners/234x60/ sgw_234_60_ b.jpg"
        > alt="Stop Global Warming" border="0">< /img></a>
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
        Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
        From: bhibby@comcast. net
        To: echocardiography@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [echocardiography] Re: Recertification
        Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:18:35 +0000

        From: katie bittner <rdcs1959@yahoo. com>
        To: echocardiography@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [echocardiography] Re: Recertification
        Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:46:38 +0000
        Unfortunately there are still sonographers that arent registered the first time yet. Im not sure if this will work until it beocmes mandatory in the field to be registered by all insurance compamnies and employers.
        Katie Bittner, rdcs,cct,fase
        Detroit , MI

        Gerson Lichtenberg <gershomsl@gmail. com> wrote:
        It is important that all voices be heard and opinions considered on this issue. I would say that if you want to know the inside story, put out the effort, contact the ARDMS asking to see their financial reports and volunteering to help the work of the organization. It will give you a better perspective on both the work and the expenses of the ARDMS.

        Have you ever had occasion to meet elderly physicians who don't actually have any idea what it is that you do for a living? And then realized that they are still seeing patients and are licensed to prescribe medications and order procedures? Should they also not have to be recertified?

        Understand that it takes time to determine which newly developed diagnostic procedures and criteria are actually there to stay and then to develop test questions for them. Therefore, even people at facilities that might not practice these techniques have time to become aware of them. How would the skills ever be used at those facilities if the staff does not become aware of them? Again, remember that registry is meant to demonstrate minimally acceptable proficiency, not that the applicant is the top person in the field. Anybody that has a complete enough knowledge of the field to be considered qualified to practice should be able to qualify.

        If you don't feel that the ARDMS accomplishes this properly, volunteer to become active in the organization. Let your educated opinions be known.

        Gershom Lichtenberg, RDCS
        Haifa , Israel
        On Dec 25, 2007 7:26 AM, reality check <sparklexxxxx@ yahoo.com> wrote:
        I must respectfully disagree.
        You mention the changing diagnostic criteria that we sonographers are exposed to ...........KEEP in mind that not ALL facilitys' follow suit in this updated diagnostic realm..to expect that ALL be in the same arena  ( per say ) at a specific time and to test on this is just going a step TOO far.
        No offense ,but I am of the opinion that the ARDMS is already a very profitable CORP , for a NON PROFIT fCORP and I see this is a way only in which to gain more capitol....I am not for this movement at all , for many reasons, but specifically the two I addressed before you.

        Its very commendable to think that the ARDMS is there to HELP you as a sonographer. ..but the reality is ...while it may have started out as way in which to give sonogrpahers a NAME , a credential ; a way in which they could demand a better salary , it appears that this concept is no longer the goal of the corporation. I feel that the ARDMS , like any other corp business has an accountant and are continually looking at the bottom line, that its not about whats best for the group ,but whats best for the business and while they are labeled a non profit corp , it would be interesting to see where all the cash flow goes. I  find it a little convienient that they have recently decided to have the individual keep track of their own CME'S while warning that it is each somographer' s responsibility to keep track of them and if audited and not CURRENT there is a fines acessed . So in the small world of sonogrpahers I know , several WERE in fact audited and fined as well. GRANTED it is the responsibility of the individual to see that they are up to date on these requirements, HOWEVER I find it just TOO ironic that in the small realm I am familar with that so many would be audited and fined. It is questionable their intentions and again see it as a means to further capitol for the non profit corp.

        Obviously these are my personal opinions and I have many more I won't voice.


         So to require Recertification :  I have to say, to  WHO'S beneifit will this TRULY SERVE ? The only benneficiary I see on the receiving end is the ARDMS.
        Gershom and all

        Merry Christmas to all!

        I firmly believe that recertification is needed in our field. It is a
        requirement for our doctors and I think it should be for us
        sonographers too. Echo is becoming increasingly complicated and is
        an instrumental decsion making tool in the diagnosis and treatment of
        critcially ill patients. Sonograpahers should be challenged to not
        only maintain their skills but contuniually update them as technology
        advances. Recertification would be a good way to ensure that we are
        all keeping up with the changes.

        Ken Horton
        Intermountain Health Care
        Salt Lake City

        --- In echocardiography@ yahoogroups. com , "Gerson Lichtenberg"
        <gershomsl@.. .> wrote:
        >
        > It is interesting that the ARDMS is beginning to investigate the
        concept of
        > recertification as discussed in the following piece:
        > http://www.ardms. org/default. asp?contentID= 891
        >
        > As many of us have now been in the field for decades, it is
        important that
        > we demonstrate that we have maintained competency to protect our
        patients
        > as well as the meaning of our registry certificates. How do the
        rest of you
        > feel about this? Please note that the end of the ARDMS publication
        also
        > provides an e-mail address for response to the ARDMS. I think that
        it is
        > important that our community be heard from on this issue.
        >
        >
        > Gershom Lichtenberg, RDCS
        > Haifa , Israel
        >

        Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


        IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE YOUR GOING, ANY ROAD WILL TAKE YOU THERE.

        KATIE

        <a href="http:/ /www.stopglobalw arming.org" target="blank"><img src="http:// msglblwarm. vo.llnwd. net/o16/assets/ banners/234x60/ sgw_234_60_ b.jpg" alt="Stop Global Warming" border="0"></img></a>

        Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


        Michelle
         

        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.


        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

      • Gerson Lichtenberg
        Agreed, Cliff. The issue raised was recertification, not registry, and the point was to consider the idea here and ask people to give feedback to ARDMS as
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 2, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Agreed, Cliff. The issue raised was recertification, not registry, and the point was to consider the idea here and ask people to give feedback to ARDMS as well. Thank you for your input.

          Thank you all for your feedback.

          Gershom Lichtenberg, RDCS
          Haifa, Israel

          On Jan 2, 2008 7:28 PM, Clifford Thornton <cmt51597@...> wrote:

          Look, techs having to have to be accredited is a DONE DEAL. Nothing really left to discuss on this topic (although I'd be interested to see what happens with the re-cert).  Every other diagnostic field I believe (even masseuses require licensing!).  Those that are still protesting this are just singing in the wind. 
           
          I am sorry to those that let all those years pass and never even attempted the test and just got so far away from the academics that taking the test now is like climbing Mt. Everest.  But, it's just the way things are going.  I blame their employers for not prompting them more and letting people "slide" for so long and the whole "registry-eligible" thing/term did not help-- a made up term.  How would you like a pilot or home-builder who is registry-eligible? 
           
          We all know that being registered doesn't mean it's a gold stamp that the tech knows who to scan--- that's going to be the case with any license- does a driver's license means a person follows all of the traffic signs-- of course not!  But, is that a reason not to issue/require driver's licenses?  Of course not!  So let's stop beating this dead horse-- registry requirement is here in full-bloom and it's probably here to stay.  Patients and the insurance carrier demand quality and they should.  Registry is not perfect, but at least it's a step, maybe a filtering process in the least. 
           
          I thought that the competency sheet that is supposed to be signed by a registered tech or doc (if a registered tech isn't available such as in a rural area) which is now a requirement in the ARDMS application is supposed to demonstrate basic scanning competency.  Perhaps we should require at least 3 independent signatures (as many from registered tech as possible) to further bolster the meaning/credibility of this sheet. 
           
          But, there's only so much you can do.  Having a registered tech does not mean all your problems are solved.  Licensed stockbrockers advise the wrong stocks, licensed pilots crash planes, licensed captains run ships into icebergs, and we all know about the botched surgeries done by licensed surgeons-- but do you ever here the government or the media considering these licenses useless/without merit-- of course not! 
           
          These people using the trump card.....but a registry does not do "X"..........save your energy and your typing fingers.  This is a done deal.  It needs to happen, it's happening, it will continue to happen!  Now that that's said, can we PLEASE move on!?!  This horse is so dead that you wouldn't be able to find one molecule of meat left on it! 
           
          Thanks once again,
           
          Cliff


          Anne Bello <abello4@...> wrote:
          I believe that having the credentials to show that you have the minimum knowledge necessary to perform as a sonographer is a no brainer. The new techs that can pass a test but not scan should be trained properly by their superiors like we were. Those that cant scan at all no matter what need to be filtered out by appropriate competency reviews.  Still, anyone that would hire a sonographer without letting that person scan first is taking a risk. The sonographer with 20 yrs experience should have seen this coming and buckle down, study, and show that he/she is perfectly capable of passing the test. Just my opinion; don't mean to offend anyone.
          AB

          From: echocardiography@yahoogroups.com [mailto:echocardiography@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michelle Kelly
          Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:25 AM
          To: echocardiography@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [SPAM] Re: [echocardiography] Re: Recertification
          In response to Katie's comment. Yes having certification is a wonderful thing, but what about the Songraphers that can pass a TEST and cannot do an echo if their life depended on it verses, the Songrapher that have been doing echoes for 20 years and is an Excellent songrapher.

          Bhibby@... wrote:
          The recertification survey is one of the very few I did not receive, but I heard
          about it from my co-worker who did complete the survey.

          I am not sure how I feel about this--I do know that it has been a very long time
          since I did any radiology procedure and that is one registry I am supposedly
          credentialed to practice--the same for any adult echo procedure. My field of
          choice for a very long time has been pediatric and fetal echocardiography--that
          takes all my time and effort I am not paid by my multiple registries--I think
          that some of us have taken and passed different registries so we could add them
          to our resume and reap the benefits--for myself, I would not like to have to
          drop the things off my resume that I worked for and "earned" but I also know
          that I could not do a "real" x-ray exam nor could I complete a diagnostic adult
          echocardiogram. If it was my grandma who needed an echo, I would not be
          stepping forward to do that--I do know who I would grab, though.

          I have heard the physicians I work with talk about their re-cert exams-- must
          admit to thinking that it was a money thing--but I hear in their stories that
          these exams made them think about things they had not thought about in a very
          long time. Knowing that we would have to do a re-certification exam may make us
          all really pay attention to the CEU programs we say we attend--I know I have
          gone to a lot of educational things and some I pay attention to and some I
          socialize--

          Katie makes a very good point--I do not know how to cut out those people who
          have not taken the very first step to show that they have the knowledge to do a
          basic echo exam. Maybe now that the insurance companies have made a stand about
          paying for exams done in an accredited labs those that have skated by all
          these years will have to be accountable.

          I have seen all different levels of debate here about this issue--a little
          different slant here, another there--there will be those of us who take pride in
          what we do and strive to improve ourselves both professionally and personally.
          We all know the others who somehow side-step every so called safe guard--using
          charisma or whatever you want to call it to get by--and we all know that this
          includes both physicians and sonographers. These are the people who can take a
          test without blinking an eye--while some of us sweat out every single question.

          What I think I I have read in all the posts revolves around one common
          thing--and that is what makes me very proud of our profession. The simple fact
          is that most of us strive to insure we provide good, accurate, and compassionate
          patient care while providing accurate data which translates to successful case
          management. Regardless of what area of the country we work in or what imaging
          arena we find ourselves, ,that is our goal and we all have our own and sometimes unique safe guards in
          place to secure that fact. For me to sit in my little corner of the world and
          say that what someone does in rural America or in a busy urban ER is not the
          best use of my time nor will it change anything. In my old age I hope to be
          less judgmental-- keeping an open mind so I can learn from each offered
          experience. What a gift we all have in this forum because it gives us a way to
          share and share honestly what we encounter on a daily basis--it is in this
          sharing we give each other knowledge--which translates to power-which helps us all
          to make informed decisions that may have a very wide range of effects
          in areas we can only begin to imagine.

          I wish you all a very happy, healthy, and successful year ahead in 2008!

          Barb HIbdon
          Rocky Mountain Pediatric Cardiology
          Lone Tree, CO

          I have worked with people who test well and have certifications and initials
          behind their name--these initials cry out as you notice them on their lab
          coats--reminds me of something my Dad used to say--something like if someone has
          to tell you how smart they are--those people are not usually that smart.
          Hmmmm...I know that have worked with people who come to work every day, do the
          best studies on the planet and have no certifications behind their name at
          all--we can take tests and tests and more tests and some will score and some
          will not--

          There is no simple or easy answer because our practice is not only a reflection
          of our skill but a reflection of our artistry--shown in both our patient care
          and our images. I believe that the almighty insurance companies will make
          and/or break our labs and our profession. It will eventually get rid of those
          who cannot pass the accreditation process--it will also take out some of those
          who just panic at the thought of a "test."

          I am one of the lucky ones because I will retire from the profession soon--my
          concern now comes from anticipating being that patient on the exam table and
          praying that not only will the sonographer get the information needed but that
          information will be TOTALLY understood by the physician that must now take my
          care to the next step.

          If there has ever been a time in our profession that those of us who have had
          the opportunity to learn from those who really know and understand the images we
          provide every hour of every day to teach what we know, it is NOW--that includes
          passing on knowledge on all levels from things like the technical aspects of
          the Nyquist limits to simple patient care and ethics. How appropriate that I
          write this as 2007 ends and we all enter the new year--I hope I can brush off my
          writing tools and write a few articles that will teach the new sonographers
          entering our field--help them as I would help them if they came and spent a day
          or two in my lab observing how I work and care for my patients and their
          families.

          I have worked in different areas of our great country and I know that each area
          has different needs and expectations of the professional. Does that meet the
          standards that we all strive to meet? I have learned that every single word we
          speak has a very wide definition when you take into account who is
          listening--using who knows what type of filters for interpretation.

          Sometimes I have to step up on my soap box and lecture--thank you for allowing
          me to do that--and I hope that we all continue to share our thoughts, our
          experiences, and our passions for the future.

          Is recertification the answer? Obviously, I do not think so--it is only a very
          small part of the equation. It is up to all of us to share our knowledge and
          help each other grow--write, share, and grow as you take a risk by voicing your
          thoughts and opinions-encourage a new and different level of debate which may or
          may not give a new reader the courage to speak up and voice a their new and
          unique point of view.

          Thanks for the soap box time--may you all be blessed with a happy and healthy
          2008!

          Barb Hibdon
          Denver, CO

          -------------- Original message ----------------------
          From: katie bittner <rdcs1959@...>
          > Unfortunately there are still sonographers that arent registered the first
          time
          > yet. Im not sure if this will work until it beocmes mandatory in the field to
          be
          > registered by all insurance compamnies and employers.
          > Katie Bittner, rdcs,cct,fase
          > Detroit, MI
          >
          > Gerson Lichtenberg <gershomsl@...> wrote:
          > It is important that all voices be heard and opinions considered on
          > this issue. I would say that if you want to know the inside story, put out the
          > effort, contact the ARDMS asking to see their financial reports and
          volunteering
          > to help the work of the organization. It will give you a better perspective on
          > both the work and the expenses of the ARDMS.
          >
          > Have you ever had occasion to meet elderly physicians who don't actually have
          > any idea what it is that you do for a living? And then realized that they are
          > still seeing patients and are licensed to prescribe medications and order
          > procedures? Should they also not have to be recertified?
          >
          > Understand that it takes time to determine which newly developed diagnostic
          > procedures and criteria are actually there to stay and then to develop test
          > questions for them. Therefore, even people at facilities that might not
          practice
          > these techniques have time to become aware of them. How would the skills ever
          be
          > used at those facilities if the staff does not become aware of them? Again,
          > remember that registry is meant to demonstrate minimally acceptable
          proficiency,
          > not that the applicant is the top person in the field. Anybody that has a
          > complete enough knowledge of the field to be considered qualified to practice
          > should be able to qualify.
          >
          > If you don't feel that the ARDMS accomplishes this properly, volunteer to
          become
          > active in the organization. Let your educated opinions be known.
          >
          > Gershom Lichtenberg, RDCS
          > Haifa, Israel
          >
          > On Dec 25, 2007 7:26 AM, reality check <sparklexxxxx@...> wrote:
          > I must respectfully disagree.
          > You mention the changing diagnostic criteria that we sonographers are exposed
          to
          > ...........KEEP in mind that not ALL facilitys' follow suit in this updated
          > diagnostic realm..to expect that ALL be in the same arena ( per say ) at a
          > specific time and to test on this is just going a step TOO far.
          > No offense ,but I am of the opinion that the ARDMS is already a very
          profitable
          > CORP , for a NON PROFIT fCORP and I see this is a way only in which to gain
          more
          > capitol....I am not for this movement at all , for many reasons, but
          > specifically the two I addressed before you.
          >
          > Its very commendable to think that the ARDMS is there to HELP you as a
          > sonographer...but the reality is ...while it may have started out as way in
          > which to give sonogrpahers a NAME , a credential ; a way in which they could
          > demand a better salary , it appears that this concept is no longer the goal of
          > the corporation. I feel that the ARDMS , like any other corp business has an
          > accountant and are continually looking at the bottom line, that its not about
          > whats best for the group ,but whats best for the business and while they are
          > labeled a non profit corp , it would be interesting to see where all the cash
          > flow goes. I find it a little convienient that they have recently decided to
          > have the individual keep track of their own CME'S while warning that it is
          each
          > somographer's responsibility to keep track of them and if audited and not
          > CURRENT there is a fines acessed . So in the small world of sonogrpahers I
          know
          > , several WERE in fact audited and fined as well. GRANTED it is
          > the responsibility of the individual to see that they are up to date on these
          > requirements, HOWEVER I find it just TOO ironic that in the small realm I am
          > familar with that so many would be audited and fined. It is questionable their
          > intentions and again see it as a means to further capitol for the non profit
          > corp.
          >
          > Obviously these are my personal opinions and I have many more I won't voice.
          >
          >
          > So to require Recertification : I have to say, to WHO'S beneifit will this
          > TRULY SERVE ? The only benneficiary I see on the receiving end is the ARDMS.
          >
          >
          > Ken <kd.horton@...> wrote: Gershom and all
          >
          > Merry Christmas to all!
          >
          > I firmly believe that recertification is needed in our field. It is a
          > requirement for our doctors and I think it should be for us
          > sonographers too. Echo is becoming increasingly complicated and is
          > an instrumental decsion making tool in the diagnosis and treatment of
          > critcially ill patients. Sonograpahers should be challenged to not
          > only maintain their skills but contuniually update them as technology
          > advances. Recertification would be a good way to ensure that we are
          > all keeping up with the changes.
          >
          > Ken Horton
          > Intermountain Health Care
          > Salt Lake City
          >
          > --- In echocardiography@yahoogroups.com , "Gerson Lichtenberg"
          > <gershomsl@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > It is interesting that the ARDMS is beginning to investigate the
          > concept of
          > > recertification as discussed in the following piece:
          > > http://www.ardms.org/default.asp?contentID=891
          > >
          > > As many of us have now been in the field for decades, it is
          > important that
          > > we demonstrate that we have maintained competency to protect our
          > patients
          > > as well as the meaning of our registry certificates. How do the
          > rest of you
          > > feel about this? Please note that the end of the ARDMS publication
          > also
          > > provides an e-mail address for response to the ARDMS. I think that
          > it is
          > > important that our community be heard from on this issue.
          > >
          > >
          > > Gershom Lichtenberg, RDCS
          > > Haifa, Israel
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE YOUR GOING, ANY ROAD WILL TAKE YOU THERE.
          >
          > KATIE
          >
          >
          > <a href="http://www.stopglobalwarming.org " target="blank"><img
          >
          src="http://msglblwarm.vo.llnwd.net/o16/assets/banners/234x60/sgw_234_60_b.jpg "
          > alt="Stop Global Warming" border="0"></img></a>
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
          From: bhibby@...
          To: echocardiography@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [echocardiography] Re: Recertification
          Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:18:35 +0000

          From: katie bittner <rdcs1959@... >
          To: echocardiography@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [echocardiography] Re: Recertification
          Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:46:38 +0000
          Unfortunately there are still sonographers that arent registered the first time yet. Im not sure if this will work until it beocmes mandatory in the field to be registered by all insurance compamnies and employers.
          Katie Bittner, rdcs,cct,fase
          Detroit, MI

          Gerson Lichtenberg <gershomsl@...> wrote:
          It is important that all voices be heard and opinions considered on this issue. I would say that if you want to know the inside story, put out the effort, contact the ARDMS asking to see their financial reports and volunteering to help the work of the organization. It will give you a better perspective on both the work and the expenses of the ARDMS.

          Have you ever had occasion to meet elderly physicians who don't actually have any idea what it is that you do for a living? And then realized that they are still seeing patients and are licensed to prescribe medications and order procedures? Should they also not have to be recertified?

          Understand that it takes time to determine which newly developed diagnostic procedures and criteria are actually there to stay and then to develop test questions for them. Therefore, even people at facilities that might not practice these techniques have time to become aware of them. How would the skills ever be used at those facilities if the staff does not become aware of them? Again, remember that registry is meant to demonstrate minimally acceptable proficiency, not that the applicant is the top person in the field. Anybody that has a complete enough knowledge of the field to be considered qualified to practice should be able to qualify.

          If you don't feel that the ARDMS accomplishes this properly, volunteer to become active in the organization. Let your educated opinions be known.

          Gershom Lichtenberg, RDCS
          Haifa, Israel
          On Dec 25, 2007 7:26 AM, reality check < sparklexxxxx@...> wrote:
          I must respectfully disagree.
          You mention the changing diagnostic criteria that we sonographers are exposed to ...........KEEP in mind that not ALL facilitys' follow suit in this updated diagnostic realm..to expect that ALL be in the same arena  ( per say ) at a specific time and to test on this is just going a step TOO far.
          No offense ,but I am of the opinion that the ARDMS is already a very profitable CORP , for a NON PROFIT fCORP and I see this is a way only in which to gain more capitol....I am not for this movement at all , for many reasons, but specifically the two I addressed before you.

          Its very commendable to think that the ARDMS is there to HELP you as a sonographer...but the reality is ...while it may have started out as way in which to give sonogrpahers a NAME , a credential ; a way in which they could demand a better salary , it appears that this concept is no longer the goal of the corporation. I feel that the ARDMS , like any other corp business has an accountant and are continually looking at the bottom line, that its not about whats best for the group ,but whats best for the business and while they are labeled a non profit corp , it would be interesting to see where all the cash flow goes. I  find it a little convienient that they have recently decided to have the individual keep track of their own CME'S while warning that it is each somographer's responsibility to keep track of them and if audited and not CURRENT there is a fines acessed . So in the small world of sonogrpahers I know , several WERE in fact audited and fined as well. GRANTED it is the responsibility of the individual to see that they are up to date on these requirements, HOWEVER I find it just TOO ironic that in the small realm I am familar with that so many would be audited and fined. It is questionable their intentions and again see it as a means to further capitol for the non profit corp.

          Obviously these are my personal opinions and I have many more I won't voice.


           So to require Recertification :  I have to say, to  WHO'S beneifit will this TRULY SERVE ? The only benneficiary I see on the receiving end is the ARDMS.

          Ken <kd.horton@...> wrote:
          Gershom and all

          Merry Christmas to all!

          I firmly believe that recertification is needed in our field. It is a
          requirement for our doctors and I think it should be for us
          sonographers too. Echo is becoming increasingly complicated and is
          an instrumental decsion making tool in the diagnosis and treatment of
          critcially ill patients. Sonograpahers should be challenged to not
          only maintain their skills but contuniually update them as technology
          advances. Recertification would be a good way to ensure that we are
          all keeping up with the changes.

          Ken Horton
          Intermountain Health Care
          Salt Lake City

          --- In echocardiography@yahoogroups.com , "Gerson Lichtenberg"
          <gershomsl@...> wrote:
          >
          > It is interesting that the ARDMS is beginning to investigate the
          concept of
          > recertification as discussed in the following piece:
          > http://www.ardms.org/default.asp?contentID=891
          >
          > As many of us have now been in the field for decades, it is
          important that
          > we demonstrate that we have maintained competency to protect our
          patients
          > as well as the meaning of our registry certificates. How do the
          rest of you
          > feel about this? Please note that the end of the ARDMS publication
          also
          > provides an e-mail address for response to the ARDMS. I think that
          it is
          > important that our community be heard from on this issue.
          >
          >
          > Gershom Lichtenberg, RDCS
          > Haifa, Israel
          >

          Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


          IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE YOUR GOING, ANY ROAD WILL TAKE YOU THERE .

          KATIE

          <a href="http://www.stopglobalwarming.org" target="blank"><img src=" http://msglblwarm.vo.llnwd.net/o16/assets/banners/234x60/sgw_234_60_b.jpg" alt="Stop Global Warming" border="0"></img></a>

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          Michelle
           

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