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Re: [eccopro] Cost of ecco and consultive services

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  • Pru Borland
    An ongoing source of legal and affordable copies of ECCO is ebay. There s one there right now.... current bid price is 34.00. ... From: Robert Bentley To:
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 12, 2001
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      An ongoing source of "legal" and affordable copies of ECCO is ebay. There's one there right now.... current bid price is 34.00.  
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:42 PM
      Subject: [eccopro] Cost of ecco and consultive services

      I am posting this message to all members of the group because I believe
      it its of interest to the continuing use and survial of ecco.

      What is the cost for new ecco licenses?  As far as I have been able to
      determine Neal Gantz (who is an outstanding resource for the use of
      ecco) is the only source for new ecco license.  I am a big proponent of
      ecco usage, but I am unable to tell new or prospective users what a
      license would cost them.  I am unwilling to just past my copy around,
      despite the fact that the program is unsupported at present.

      I have heard costs of $49.00 to $$300.00 being posted in this group.
      Only Neal seems to be the source of new license and their costs.  I hope
      this is not variable or proprietary.  Neal can you post to this group
      what you charge for new licenses?  It would help us with recruiting new
      users.

      It would also help if we had an idea of how you consultative services
      were charged.  What is the hourly or flat fee rate?  Without that
      knowledge it is hard to refer others to you or to ask myself.

      I do believe this is a subject of general interest and would ask you to
      respond to the group. You are a tremendous resource and one I may well
      want to use or refer others to you.  Please let us know how your charges
      are calculated.

      Robert Bentley
      Salt Lake City, Ut



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    • Richard A. Schulman
      The best hope for attracting new users and prolonging Ecco s survival would be to turn it into freeware. This raises several pertinent questions. 1. Could
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 12, 2001
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        The best hope for attracting new users and prolonging Ecco's
        survival would be to turn it into freeware. This raises
        several pertinent questions.

        1. Could NetManage do anything about this?

        2. Would they?

        3. If it could and would, what would it take to persuade the
        company to do otherwise?

        Richard Schulman
      • fosmire@bresnanlink.net
        NetManage was previously approached about making it available as shareware. Alas, the same response as in other solicitations: nothing.
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 12, 2001
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          NetManage was previously approached about making it available as
          shareware. Alas, the same response as in other solicitations:
          nothing.


          --- In eccopro@y..., Richard A. Schulman <RichardASchulman@a...>
          wrote:
          > The best hope for attracting new users and prolonging Ecco's
          > survival would be to turn it into freeware. This raises
          > several pertinent questions.
          >
          > 1. Could NetManage do anything about this?
          >
          > 2. Would they?
          >
          > 3. If it could and would, what would it take to persuade the
          > company to do otherwise?
          >
          > Richard Schulman
        • Richard A. Schulman
          ... This level of inertia suggests that if the program were put out on someone s server the response would also be nothing. Richard Schulman
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 12, 2001
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            fosmire@... writes:

            >NetManage was previously approached about making it available as
            >shareware. Alas, the same response as in other solicitations:
            >nothing.

            This level of inertia suggests that if the program were put
            out on someone's server the response would also be nothing.

            Richard Schulman
          • Neal Gantz
            ... I d say that few or none of us have consistently been accurate in predicting NetManage s actions. As perhaps the newer members of this newsgroup know,
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 12, 2001
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              > >NetManage was previously approached about making it available as
              > >shareware. Alas, the same response as in other solicitations:
              > >nothing.
              >
              > This level of inertia suggests that if the program were put
              > out on someone's server the response would also be nothing.
              >
              > Richard Schulman

              I'd say that few or none of us have consistently been accurate in predicting
              NetManage's actions.

              As perhaps the newer members of this newsgroup know, NetManage maintained a
              set of Ecco newsgroups on a NetManage-hosted newssever. That newsserver has
              been inaccessible for about nine or so months now. (I check it from time to
              time.) A post to this newsgroup quoted a NetManage employee as saying that
              the newsserver was shut down, and that it was shut down because of what had
              happened in the newsgroup. I think the specific thing cited was that a post
              had contained a link to Ecco installation files posted on a non-NetManage
              server.

              Should NetManage desire, it probably would be relatively simple to appeal to
              Yahoo to shut down this (Yahoo-hosted) newsgroup if the newsgroup were to be
              promoting unlicensed installations.

              By the way, while obviously I have a vested interest in receiving $ for my
              inventory, I probably would profit much more in consulting by expanding the
              number of Ecco users as could be the case from putting Ecco into the public
              domain.

              (The other topics discussed in this thread are of course of interest to me
              too; I might respond to them but can't take time for more than this at this
              moment. Thanks!)

              --Neal Gantz (Independent Ecco Pro consultant)


              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Richard A. Schulman [mailto:RichardASchulman@...]
              > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:06 PM
              > To: eccopro@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [eccopro] Re: Cost of ecco and consultive services
              >
              >
              > fosmire@... writes:
              >
              > >NetManage was previously approached about making it available as
              > >shareware. Alas, the same response as in other solicitations:
              > >nothing.
              >
              > This level of inertia suggests that if the program were put
              > out on someone's server the response would also be nothing.
              >
              > Richard Schulman
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: eccopro@...
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > eccopro-unsubscribe@...
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • Richard A. Schulman
              ... I doubt very much that Yahoo wants to get in the business of censoring its newsgroups. While it wouldn t itself knowlingly allow its servers to host
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 13, 2001
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                Neal Gantz writes:

                >Should NetManage desire, it probably would be relatively simple to appeal to
                >Yahoo to shut down this (Yahoo-hosted) newsgroup if the newsgroup were to be
                >promoting unlicensed installations.

                I doubt very much that Yahoo wants to get in the business of
                censoring its newsgroups. While it wouldn't itself
                knowlingly allow its servers to host unlicensed software,
                it's hardly going to shut down a newsgroup because an
                occasional poster mentions the location, elsewhere, of an
                item of unlicensed software. In the unlikely event that
                Yahoo were to submit to pressure from NetManage, it would
                set itself up for a never-ending suite of lawsuits from
                every individual or company with a grievance against
                anything said or referred to at any time in any Yahoo
                newsgroup.

                I would further submit that the best way to get NetManage to
                do something intelligent -- in its own as well as our
                interests -- would be by forcing the issue in the way that I
                have suggested.

                NetManage's best option would be to turn EccoPro into
                no-support shareware for a very modest royalty fee (my
                suggestion would be $20), or sell the rights to someone who
                would do just this.

                I'll conclude by saying that as a consultant I've
                recommended and specified corporate software purchases in
                the millions of dollars. I would never recommend the product
                of any vendor with a track record of dropping a viable
                software product and refusing to put it in the public domain
                and/or open source it. That's the worst kind of desertion of
                one's customers.

                Richard Schulman
              • Nick Gordon
                Eccogroupies, On Friday, July 13, 2001, 2:27:34 PM, RichardASchulman@att.net wrote: = snip ==== RAS I ll conclude by saying that as a consultant I ve RAS
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 15, 2001
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                  Eccogroupies,

                  On Friday, July 13, 2001, 2:27:34 PM, RichardASchulman@... wrote:
                  = snip ====

                  RAS> I'll conclude by saying that as a consultant I've
                  RAS> recommended and specified corporate software purchases in
                  RAS> the millions of dollars. I would never recommend the product
                  RAS> of any vendor with a track record of dropping a viable
                  RAS> software product and refusing to put it in the public domain
                  RAS> and/or open source it. That's the worst kind of desertion of
                  RAS> one's customers.

                  You make some good points; however, NM has demonstrated a surprising
                  lack of interest in pursuing commercial opportunities with Ecco.
                  Several people have made offers to buy, licence or otherwise contribute
                  to support and development of Ecco. None has received a material
                  response. Note: they have *not* had a response. NM has not said "no",
                  nor "maybe, but", just nothing.

                  I think because of this, that it doesn't matter how we pressure them,
                  they won't respond.

                  I've posted further on my view of this in the past in this group, so
                  I don't want to waste everyone's time by repeating too much.


                  --
                  Best regards,
                  Nick
                  Milton Keynes, UK, where roundabouts go to die
                  nickg@...
                • Andre
                  Has anyone thought of suing Netmanage to either support Ecco or to let it go? ... From: To: Sent: Thursday,
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 4, 2001
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                    Has anyone thought of suing Netmanage to either support Ecco or to let it
                    go?


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <fosmire@...>
                    To: <eccopro@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 6:34 PM
                    Subject: [eccopro] Re: Cost of ecco and consultive services


                    > NetManage was previously approached about making it available as
                    > shareware. Alas, the same response as in other solicitations:
                    > nothing.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In eccopro@y..., Richard A. Schulman <RichardASchulman@a...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > The best hope for attracting new users and prolonging Ecco's
                    > > survival would be to turn it into freeware. This raises
                    > > several pertinent questions.
                    > >
                    > > 1. Could NetManage do anything about this?
                    > >
                    > > 2. Would they?
                    > >
                    > > 3. If it could and would, what would it take to persuade the
                    > > company to do otherwise?
                    > >
                    > > Richard Schulman
                    >
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to: eccopro@...
                    > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@...
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • Jan Rifkinson
                    Hello Andre, On Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:09:28 [ -0400 GMT], you wrote the following in regards to Cost of ecco and consultive services : Andre Has
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 4, 2001
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                      Hello Andre,

                      On Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:09:28 [ -0400 GMT], you wrote the
                      following in regards to 'Cost of ecco and consultive services':

                      Andre> Has anyone thought of suing Netmanage to either support Ecco or to let it
                      Andre> go?

                      On what grounds would that be? They own it; they can do what they
                      want with it I would think.

                      --
                      Jan Rifkinson
                      Ridgefield, CT
                      Ecco 4.01/W2K-SP2
                      eMail: janrif@...
                      ICQ 41116329
                    • Curtis M. Dowds
                      Suing Netmanage isn t half so interesting as suing Microsoft for monopoly pricing
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 5, 2001
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                        Suing Netmanage isn't half so interesting as suing Microsoft for monopoly
                        pricing

                        At 02:18 PM 8.4.2001 -0400, you wrote:
                        >Hello Andre,
                        >
                        >On Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:09:28 [ -0400 GMT], you wrote the
                        >following in regards to 'Cost of ecco and consultive services':
                        >
                        >Andre> Has anyone thought of suing Netmanage to either support Ecco or to
                        >let it
                        >Andre> go?
                        >
                        > On what grounds would that be? They own it; they can do what they
                        > want with it I would think.
                        >
                        >--
                        >Jan Rifkinson
                        >Ridgefield, CT
                        >Ecco 4.01/W2K-SP2
                        >eMail: janrif@...
                        >ICQ 41116329
                        >
                        >
                        >To Post a message, send it to: eccopro@...
                        >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@...
                        >
                        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • No Answer
                        How much money do you figure you would get out of a company in the process of getting delisted? ... monopoly ... Ecco or to ... they ...
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 7, 2001
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                          How much money do you figure you would get out of a company in the
                          process of getting delisted?


                          --- In eccopro@y..., "Curtis M. Dowds" <cdowds@w...> wrote:
                          > Suing Netmanage isn't half so interesting as suing Microsoft for
                          monopoly
                          > pricing
                          >
                          > At 02:18 PM 8.4.2001 -0400, you wrote:
                          > >Hello Andre,
                          > >
                          > >On Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:09:28 [ -0400 GMT], you wrote the
                          > >following in regards to 'Cost of ecco and consultive services':
                          > >
                          > >Andre> Has anyone thought of suing Netmanage to either support
                          Ecco or to
                          > >let it
                          > >Andre> go?
                          > >
                          > > On what grounds would that be? They own it; they can do what
                          they
                          > > want with it I would think.
                          > >
                          > >--
                          > >Jan Rifkinson
                          > >Ridgefield, CT
                          > >Ecco 4.01/W2K-SP2
                          > >eMail: janrif@y...
                          > >ICQ 41116329
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >To Post a message, send it to: eccopro@e...
                          > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@e...
                          > >
                          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • Andre
                          When they bought ECCO they also inherited the obligations to ECCO customers, obligations they have not honored. Greanted there is no written contract, but I
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 11, 2001
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                            When they bought ECCO they also inherited the obligations to ECCO customers,
                            obligations they have not honored. Greanted there is no written contract,
                            but I believe one can make an argument of an implied contract.


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Jan Rifkinson" <jan@...>
                            To: "Andre" <eccopro@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 2:18 PM
                            Subject: Re[2]: [eccopro] Re: Cost of ecco and consultive services


                            > Hello Andre,
                            >
                            > On Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:09:28 [ -0400 GMT], you wrote the
                            > following in regards to 'Cost of ecco and consultive services':
                            >
                            > Andre> Has anyone thought of suing Netmanage to either support Ecco or to
                            let it
                            > Andre> go?
                            >
                            > On what grounds would that be? They own it; they can do what they
                            > want with it I would think.
                            >
                            > --
                            > Jan Rifkinson
                            > Ridgefield, CT
                            > Ecco 4.01/W2K-SP2
                            > eMail: janrif@...
                            > ICQ 41116329
                            >
                            >
                            > To Post a message, send it to: eccopro@...
                            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@...
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                          • Jan Rifkinson
                            Hello Andre, On Saturday, August 11, 2001 18:11:48 [ -0400 GMT], you wrote the following in regards to Cost of ecco and consultive services : Andre When they
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 11, 2001
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                              Hello Andre,

                              On Saturday, August 11, 2001 18:11:48 [ -0400 GMT], you wrote the
                              following in regards to 'Cost of ecco and consultive services':

                              Andre> When they bought ECCO they also inherited the obligations to ECCO customers,
                              Andre> obligations they have not honored. Greanted there is no written contract,
                              Andre> but I believe one can make an argument of an implied contract.

                              Could be. I'm not a lawyer & I don't know if you are but I do know
                              there *are* a # of lawyers on this list. Maybe one of them will
                              offer a comment based on knowledge rather than speculation.

                              --
                              Jan Rifkinson
                              Ridgefield, CT
                              Ecco 4.01/W2K-SP2
                              eMail: janrif@...
                              ICQ 41116329

                              Andre> ----- Original Message -----
                              Andre> From: "Jan Rifkinson" <jan@...>
                              Andre> To: "Andre" <eccopro@yahoogroups.com>
                              Andre> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 2:18 PM
                              Andre> Subject: Re[2]: [eccopro] Re: Cost of ecco and consultive services


                              >> Hello Andre,
                              >>
                              >> On Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:09:28 [ -0400 GMT], you wrote the
                              >> following in regards to 'Cost of ecco and consultive services':
                              >>
                              >> Andre> Has anyone thought of suing Netmanage to either support Ecco or to
                              Andre> let it
                              >> Andre> go?
                              >>
                              >> On what grounds would that be? They own it; they can do what they
                              >> want with it I would think.
                              >>
                              >> --
                              >> Jan Rifkinson
                              >> Ridgefield, CT
                              >> Ecco 4.01/W2K-SP2
                              >> eMail: janrif@...
                              >> ICQ 41116329
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