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RE: [ebook-community] The Apple iPad and the future of e-ink ebook readers

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  • Richard Fuller
    I just simply don t understand. Help me out here., why does the iPad Kill all ebooks readers? There are many other devices that are a lot less expensive, and
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 30, 2010
      I just simply don't understand. Help me out here., why does the iPad "Kill" all ebooks readers? There are many other devices that are a lot less expensive, and have expansion slots, support, and availability of ebooks in several different formats. I agree that the iPad seems more like a small-format tablet computer. Can you help me out here? 

      In God We Trust.

      --- On Sat, 1/30/10, Richard Seltzer <seltzer@...> wrote:

      From: Richard Seltzer <seltzer@...>
      Subject: RE: [ebook-community] The Apple iPad and the future of e-ink ebook readers
      To: ebook-community@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 3:03 PM
















       









      I believe the guy from Forrester is right -- the iPad is likely to increase

      demand for ebooks and for dedicated ebook devices.



      As I put it in my blog (http:/www.samizdat .com/blog/ ) --



      What's you take on the iPad as an ebook reader?



      The press seems to consider the iPad as competition to Kindle and Sony ebook

      readers. But it is designed as a general purpose computer, not as an ebook

      reader.



      While it's possible to read text on it, I see no reason why anyone would

      want to read on it any more than they'd want to read on any general purpose

      computer. While it's possible, it's not desirable, because the backlit

      screen makes it hard on the eyes.



      Also, the form factor matters. The Kindle and the Sony are about the size

      of a paperback, fit in a pocket, can easily be carried around. The iPad is

      too big for book reading comfort. (I understand that the DX (larger screen

      than the original Kindle) did not do very well.)



      The free wireless connection of the Kindle also matters. The Kindle folks

      designed their device so there's no need for a computer. Hence it appeals

      to a very wide audience.



      The press makes a big deal out of Apple agreements with a few major book

      publishers. It looks like Apple wants to make sure that best sellers will

      be available for the iPad -- as a way to sell iPads. It's hard to tell if

      Apple wants to sell tens of thousands of different titles directly. I doubt

      it.



      There are apps for the ipod and the iphone that handle Kindle books. And

      all the iPod and iPhone apps will work on the iPad from day one. (I don't

      know about the Sony, but I'd be surprised if there weren't apps for that

      format as well. Do you know?)



      So I'd suspect that Apple would promote the apps and/or try to make deals

      wth with Amazon or Sony or Barnes and Noble to make lots of books available

      quickly, rather than start from scratch.



      I also see "A spokesman for Amazon did not comment on whether they were

      worried the iPad would affect sales of Kindle readers, but said in an e-mail

      message that customers would soon be able to sync their Kindle books to the

      iPad."



      That sounds like a very good idea.



      I expect that the iPad will develop into an alternate way of reading the

      same books (thanks largely to apps -- making books for Sony, Barnes and

      Noble, and Amazon all readable on the iPad). In other words, many people

      would have both rather than one or the other, and do their current reading

      on the device that's most convenient, keeping their books in synch; so they

      can read chapter one on the one and then pick up another device and continue

      reading where they left off.



      So while the iPad will compete with Kindle and Sony and Barnes & Noble as a

      book reading device, it will probably increase the market for ebooks sold by

      those three, in a world in which people read on multiple devices, and, due

      to apps, devices are able to display multiple formats.



      In general, the press seems to have focused on ebook devices rather than on

      ebooks. For instance, Computer World

      http://www.computer world.com/ s/article/ 9149902/iPad_ to_have_big_ impact_on_ e_

      reader_market_ ?source=CTWNLE_ nlt_pm_2010- 01-28

      "Both Yankee Group and analyst firm In-Stat are still bullish on the

      e-reader market. In-Stat said nearly 1 million e-readers shipped in 2008,

      and that number will grow to 28 million in 2013. For its part, Yankee Group

      said e-reader sales hit about $400 million in 2009 and will explode to $2.5

      billion in 2013."



      I believe that puts the emphasis in the wrong place.



      I believe that Amazon and Barnes & Noble see the devices as a way to sell

      books. They'd both gladly sell books to be read on other companies'

      devices.



      You could say that the device is the razor and the ebook is the blade, that

      the real money is to be made from the ebooks and that eventually the devices

      might be priced extremely low or even given away.



      But I don't think things will work out that way either. Yes, the real money

      is in the books. But the books will not be limited for reading on a single

      device; and the devices won't be limited to reading books of a single

      format. In other words, the seller of a particular device won't in any

      sense "own" the customers who buy that device.



      ____________ _



      Best wishes.



      Richard



      Richard Seltzer, seltzer@samizdat. com, 617-469-2269

      http://www.samizdat .com, http://www.samizdat .com/blog,

      http://twitter. com/richardseltz er

      Book collections on CD and DVD http://samizdat. stores.yahoo. net/

      3700+ ebooks for Amazon's Kindle http://www.samizdat .com/kindle 5000+ for

      Sony and 5700+ for Barnes and Noble

      As featured in the New York Times

      http://www.nytimes. com/2007/ 04/09/arts/ 09conn.html



      -----Original Message-----

      From: ebook-community@ yahoogroups. com

      [mailto:ebook-community@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of jlandahl2003

      Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:04 PM

      To: ebook-community@ yahoogroups. com

      Subject: [ebook-community] The Apple iPad and the future of e-ink ebook

      readers



      After Wednesday's high-profile announcement of the Apple iPad with epub

      support and a base price of $499, the reaction of one initially skeptical

      contributor to the MobileRead forums was "At that price point they basically

      just killed all e-ink devices, unless they start pumping them out at $50

      each, which is highly unlikely. Amazon will probably survive as some kind of

      app, maybe, but who knows. Sony's dead in this game now. $499 is a price

      point that kills everything else dead, no matter what my initial reactions

      were." Other enthusiastic and well-informed ebook fans chimed in to agree

      with this assessment.< br>

      <br>

      However, a story in BusinessWeek this morning reported, "But after seeing

      Apple's expected "Kindle killer," some analysts don't think the iPad will do

      much to hurt sales of the Kindle [and] Forrester analyst James McQuivey

      agrees, and is even considering raising his estimate on total sales of the

      Kindle and other single-purpose e-book readers in 2010 to 7 million, from

      his previous estimate of 6 million.<br>

      <br>

      Those are pretty diametrically opposed viewpoints. Many members of TeBC

      have long followed the twists and turns of the ebook industry (I myself

      started with the Rocket eBook over 10 years ago). Much as I enjoy reading

      on my Kindle 2, It's easy for me to see why people think a relatively

      inexpensive color multipurpose device would outshine and outsell a

      gray-scale single-purpose one. Anyone have any insight into why a

      presumably astute Forrester analyst might reach the counterintuitive

      conclusion that the iPad might actually help sales of e-ink readers?



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    • Dan Poynter
      ... Not true. I have been reading eBooks on a back-lit reader for years. First on a PocketPC and, for the past 1.5 years, on an iPhone. The brightness is
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 31, 2010
        > because the backlit screen makes it hard on the eyes.

        Not true.

        I have been reading eBooks on a back-lit reader for years.
        First on a PocketPC and, for the past 1.5 years, on an iPhone.
        The brightness is adjustable.
        Reading on a back-lit screen does not hurt the eyes.

        Could it be that those repeating this drivel have not tried reading on a
        screen?


        When I am traveling, my messages and answers tend be short. 
        Thank you for your understanding.
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        Dan Poynter, Author (120+ books), Publisher (since 1969), Speaker (CSP).
        Para Publishing, PO Box 8206, Santa Barbara, CA 93118-8206 USA.
        Bus: +1-805-968-7277, Mob: +1-805-448-9009.
        DanPoynter@..., http://ParaPublishing.com
        Follow me: http://www.Twitter.com/DanPoynter
        NOW, SIT DOWN AND WRITE SOMETHING.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWl0fnBu7bs
         
      • groovy_ahk
        ... Readers of how-to nonfiction that has full-color photographs of every step of a certain process will absolutely want to read them on an ebook reader that
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 31, 2010
          --- In ebook-community@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Seltzer" <seltzer@...> wrote:
          > While it's possible to read text on it, I see no reason why anyone would
          > want to read on it any more than they'd want to read on any general purpose
          > computer.



          Readers of how-to nonfiction that has full-color photographs of every step of a certain process will absolutely want to read them on an ebook reader that supports color. Also, there is speculation that Apple wants to get "back into education" by supporting textbooks for the same, full-color reason (and more--interactive features in the books, for example).



          Also, Erica Frank wrote:

          "The color-multifunction device won't *begin* to compete directly with
          ebook readers until it
          1) Supports several ebook formats with display options as good as
          currently available on e-ink devices,"



          I know it only supports ePub format right now, but have you seen the display? It is gorgeous.



          and
          "4) PROBABLY--allows ebook reading *and* mp3 playing at the same time.
          (The lack of multifunction is gonna *kill* the iPad.)"

          I agree, this is going to be necessary for their second try. However, since the iPad runs on the iPhone OS, I do know this: on my iPhone, I can listen to my iPod while using all other apps. Because this is possible on my iPhone, I presume it is also possible on the iPad. I do want to see the apps have multifunctionality (it is a word, no? ;) ) --I believe you are right about this point, Erica.

          Amy Kalinchuk
          www.crafte-revolution.com
        • Bob Pfeiffer
          ... Actually, the iPad will automatically support several formats and types of DRM as well as several ebook stores because you will be able to run eReader,
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 31, 2010
            >The color-multifunction device won't *begin* to compete directly with
            >ebook readers until it
            >1) Supports several ebook formats with display options as good as
            >currently available on e-ink devices,
            >2) Supports several types of DRM,
            >3) Allows direct, easy purchase from several ebook stores.
            >4) PROBABLY--allows ebook reading *and* mp3 playing at the same time.
            >(The lack of multifunction is gonna *kill* the iPad.)

            Actually, the iPad will automatically support several formats and types of DRM as well as several ebook stores because you will be able to run eReader, Stanza and probably the Kindle app as well.
            Also, since it's running the same OS as the iPod Touch and the iPhone, you will be able to read books while listening to mp3s.

            Bob





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill Janssen
            ... Richard, as far as I can tell, there s no medical or scientific evidence to support this frequently heard urban legend. Light is light, and your eyes
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 31, 2010
              Richard Seltzer <seltzer@...> wrote:

              > While it's possible to read text on it, I see no reason why anyone would
              > want to read on it any more than they'd want to read on any general purpose
              > computer. While it's possible, it's not desirable, because the backlit
              > screen makes it hard on the eyes.

              Richard, as far as I can tell, there's no medical or scientific evidence
              to support this frequently heard urban legend. Light is light, and your
              eyes can't tell the difference between photons emitted from the screen
              and photons reflected from the screen.

              I'd be happy to be informed that I'm wrong, if anyone has pointers to
              real studies on the subject.

              > Also, the form factor matters.

              Yes -- and I think the weight difference will matter to people. Seems
              too heavy to me. Try duct-taping two cans of Pepsi to a clipboard, and
              walk around with that for a bit.

              > The free wireless connection of the Kindle also matters. The Kindle folks
              > designed their device so there's no need for a computer. Hence it appeals
              > to a very wide audience.

              I don't see the iPad as much different in that regard. Anybody who's willing
              to pay hundreds of dollars for a high-tech way to read books isn't going to
              begrudge what it takes to connect it.

              > The press makes a big deal out of Apple agreements with a few major book
              > publishers.

              They didn't list Random House, but they did get 5 of the top 6. I
              suspect it will progress, like the iTunes coverage of music publishers did.

              http://michaelhyatt.com/2010/01/top-ten-u-s-book-publishers-for-2009.html

              > I believe that Amazon and Barnes & Noble see the devices as a way to sell
              > books. They'd both gladly sell books to be read on other companies'
              > devices.

              Well, I've always thought that Amazon had bigger ideas for the Kindle.
              But they made the mistake of using E-Ink, and using it for too long, so
              now they're playing catch-up for their own reader device.

              Bill
            • Brenna Lyons
              ... According to ophthalmologists, backlighting is not bad for the eyes UNLESS you are in a darkened room. With an appreciable amount of ambient light, they
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 1, 2010
                >
                > Richard, as far as I can tell, there's no medical or scientific evidence
                > to support this frequently heard urban legend. Light is light, and your
                > eyes can't tell the difference between photons emitted from the screen
                > and photons reflected from the screen.
                >
                > I'd be happy to be informed that I'm wrong, if anyone has pointers to
                > real studies on the subject.
                >

                According to ophthalmologists, backlighting is not bad for the eyes UNLESS
                you are in a darkened room. With an appreciable amount of ambient light,
                they say it's no worse than any other reading. In a darkened room, the
                single area of light is not good. They also highly suggest reading from a
                screen for vision impaired patients, since they say it's EASIER on the eyes
                than the printed page. Just what I've heard from them. If they have studies
                to back it, I don't have them.

                Brenna
                --
                http://www.brennalyons.com http://www.facebook.com/brenna.lyons
                "The chemistry is burn-the-tips-of-your-fingers hot. I love Ms. Lyons� style
                of writing, as well as her ability to bring emotion to the page � even as
                she kicks up the heat. An engaging and thoroughly enjoyable read. Be sure to
                put ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS YOU on your TBR list." Fern for Whipped
                Cream Reviews 4.5 Cherries


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Brenna Lyons
                According to ophthalmologists, backlighting is not bad for the eyes UNLESS you are in a darkened room. With an appreciable amount of ambient light, they say
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 1, 2010
                  According to ophthalmologists, backlighting is not bad for the eyes UNLESS
                  you are in a darkened room. With an appreciable amount of ambient light,
                  they say it's no worse than any other reading. In a darkened room, the
                  single area of light is not good. They also highly suggest reading from a
                  screen for vision impaired patients, since they say it's EASIER on the eyes
                  than the printed page. Just what I've heard from them. If they have studies
                  to back it, I don't have them.


                  And just to note, I got the original information from Kate S on this list,
                  but I checked it with my son's doctor...and he concurred.

                  B
                  --
                  http://www.brennalyons.com http://www.facebook.com/brenna.lyons
                  "The chemistry is burn-the-tips-of-your-fingers hot. I love Ms. Lyons� style
                  of writing, as well as her ability to bring emotion to the page � even as
                  she kicks up the heat. An engaging and thoroughly enjoyable read. Be sure to
                  put ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS YOU on your TBR list." Fern for Whipped
                  Cream Reviews 4.5 Cherries


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Richard Seltzer
                  I ve been in the ebook business since the mid-1980s. I have read many books on many different computers -- it is very hard on the eyes, regardless of
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 1, 2010
                    I've been in the ebook business since the mid-1980s. I have read many
                    books on many different computers -- it is very hard on the eyes, regardless
                    of adjustments.
                    I got my Kindle two years ago and have read about a hundred books on it -- a
                    delightful experience.

                    But the real killer -- what makes the iPad useless as an ebook reader, from
                    my perspective -- is that Apple will charge a monthly fee for connectivity,
                    while the Kindle has free wireless service.

                    If I want a general purpose computer and I don't have another Internet
                    connection service or if I don't mind burning money, the iPad might make
                    sense.

                    But for reading books, Kindle wins.

                    Best wishes.

                    Richard

                    Richard Seltzer, seltzer@..., 617-469-2269
                    http://www.samizdat.com, http://www.samizdat.com/blog,
                    http://twitter.com/richardseltzer
                    Book collections on CD and DVD http://samizdat.stores.yahoo.net/
                    As featured in the New York Times
                    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/09/arts/09conn.html






                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: ebook-community@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:ebook-community@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dan Poynter
                    Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 7:57 AM
                    To: ebook-community@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [ebook-community] Re: The Apple iPad and the future of e-ink
                    ebook readers


                    > because the backlit screen makes it hard on the eyes.

                    Not true.

                    I have been reading eBooks on a back-lit reader for years.
                    First on a PocketPC and, for the past 1.5 years, on an iPhone.
                    The brightness is adjustable.
                    Reading on a back-lit screen does not hurt the eyes.

                    Could it be that those repeating this drivel have not tried reading on a
                    screen?


                    When I am traveling, my messages and answers tend be short. 
                    Thank you for your understanding.
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    Dan Poynter, Author (120+ books), Publisher (since 1969), Speaker (CSP).
                    Para Publishing, PO Box 8206, Santa Barbara, CA 93118-8206 USA.
                    Bus: +1-805-968-7277, Mob: +1-805-448-9009.
                    DanPoynter@..., http://ParaPublishing.com
                    Follow me: http://www.Twitter.com/DanPoynter
                    NOW, SIT DOWN AND WRITE SOMETHING.
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWl0fnBu7bs
                     




                    ------------------------------------

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                  • joseph harris
                    From: Dan Poynter ... ........ Could it be that those repeating this drivel have not tried reading on a screen? When I am traveling, my messages and answers
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 1, 2010
                      From: "Dan Poynter"
                      > because the backlit screen makes it hard on the eyes.
                      ........
                      Could it be that those repeating this drivel have not tried reading on a
                      screen?

                      When I am traveling, my messages and answers tend be short.
                      Thank you for your understanding.
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Dan Poynter, Author (120+ books), Publisher (since 1969), Speaker (CSP).
                      Para Publishing, PO Box 8206, Santa Barbara, CA 93118-8206 USA.
                      Bus: +1-805-968-7277, Mob: +1-805-448-9009.
                      DanPoynter@..., http://ParaPublishing.com
                      Follow me: http://www.Twitter.com/DanPoynter
                      NOW, SIT DOWN AND WRITE SOMETHING.
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWl0fnBu7bs

                      Dan,

                      ;-) I'm not sure what a monitor is, then, if it is not a screen...

                      Seriously, I am not sure that it is drivel. I think it has to do with textures more than light, and that little problem called individuality! I find screens troublesome, for example, and I have problems with light and phasing. Others have such problems too.

                      Those who call for scientific proof are playing a naughty little trick. So far as I know there is no research, and even if there was it would need to be thoroughly analysed for methodology, size of study and so on. Even then any such scientific conclusion needs to be replicated and tested against other theories before it has even started down the road of being a 'scientifically verified fact'.

                      There is a known difference between backlit screens and paper, and I imagine e-ink or e-paper would classify between them. This shows up in actual colour perceptions; since these are to do with wavelengths there may in fact be a possibility that backlit screens are more tiring.

                      I find in a lot of arguments about publishing as a business that people tend to extrapolate their own experience, rather than consider how much variation there is. I'm sure you wouldn't do that over screen reading. ;-) But have you?

                      Joseph

                      Joseph Harris - Debt Control Man
                      http://www.controlyourdebtcrisis.co.uk
                      Author: Control Your Debt Crisis on Your Own Terms
                      http://twitter.com/debtcontrolman
                      SAQ - SAve the cheQue
                    • rappaho@aol.com
                      Hi all, Just and FYI, the iPad was given out to all the celebrities in their goodie bag at the Grammies. And they used it to introduce the first winning - the
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 1, 2010
                        Hi all,

                        Just and FYI, the iPad was given out to all the celebrities in their goodie
                        bag at the Grammies. And they used it to introduce the first winning - the
                        song of the year. I did not watch the whole Grammies so do not know if it
                        was used there more times.

                        Kathy.
                        OCR specialist
                            Don't retype it, OCR it!
                        Taking your books or documents and placing them in Word
                        www.katscan-ocr.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • jon
                        Ditto for me. I can only assume that the eyestrain from backlit screens is psychosomatic and caused by stress: people tell themselves they will get eyestrain
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 1, 2010
                          Ditto for me. I can only assume that the 'eyestrain from backlit
                          screens' is psychosomatic and caused by stress: people tell themselves
                          they will get eyestrain from it and hey presto! they do.

                          Jon.

                          Dan Poynter wrote:
                          > I have been reading eBooks on a back-lit reader for years.
                          > First on a PocketPC and, for the past 1.5 years, on an iPhone.
                          > The brightness is adjustable.
                          > Reading on a back-lit screen does not hurt the eyes.
                          >
                        • Richard Seltzer
                          Who cares about ophthamologists and studies? The question is do you enjoy reading on the device? Do you read for hour after hour? Or do you get drowsy and
                          Message 12 of 23 , Feb 2, 2010
                            Who cares about ophthamologists and studies?
                            The question is do you enjoy reading on the device? Do you read for hour
                            after hour? Or do you get drowsy and stop after a chapter or so?
                            For me, reading on the Kindle is a pleasure, and reading on a computer is
                            work.

                            Best wishes.

                            Richard

                            Richard Seltzer, seltzer@..., 617-469-2269
                            http://www.samizdat.com, http://www.samizdat.com/blog,
                            http://twitter.com/richardseltzer
                            Book collections on CD and DVD http://samizdat.stores.yahoo.net/
                            3700+ ebooks for Amazon's Kindle http://www.samizdat.com/kindle 5000+ for
                            Sony and 5700+ for Barnes and Noble
                            As featured in the New York Times
                            http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/09/arts/09conn.html






                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: ebook-community@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:ebook-community@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Brenna Lyons
                            Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:12 AM
                            To: ebook-community@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [ebook-community] The Apple iPad and the future of e-ink
                            ebook readers


                            According to ophthalmologists, backlighting is not bad for the eyes UNLESS
                            you are in a darkened room. With an appreciable amount of ambient light,
                            they say it's no worse than any other reading. In a darkened room, the
                            single area of light is not good. They also highly suggest reading from a
                            screen for vision impaired patients, since they say it's EASIER on the eyes
                            than the printed page. Just what I've heard from them. If they have studies
                            to back it, I don't have them.


                            And just to note, I got the original information from Kate S on this list,
                            but I checked it with my son's doctor...and he concurred.

                            B
                            --
                            http://www.brennalyons.com http://www.facebook.com/brenna.lyons
                            "The chemistry is burn-the-tips-of-your-fingers hot. I love Ms. Lyons’ style
                            of writing, as well as her ability to bring emotion to the page – even as
                            she kicks up the heat. An engaging and thoroughly enjoyable read. Be sure to
                            put ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS YOU on your TBR list." Fern for Whipped
                            Cream Reviews 4.5 Cherries


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                          • Bill Janssen
                            ... Well, I was with you till you said, regardless of adjustments . That doesn t seem to be true; a properly adjusted screen is as easy to read from as, or
                            Message 13 of 23 , Feb 2, 2010
                              Richard Seltzer <seltzer@...> wrote:

                              > I've been in the ebook business since the mid-1980s. I have read many
                              > books on many different computers -- it is very hard on the eyes, regardless
                              > of adjustments.

                              Well, I was with you till you said, "regardless of adjustments". That
                              doesn't seem to be true; a properly adjusted screen is as easy to read
                              from as, or even better than, a printed copy. John Gould at IBM did
                              several studies of this in the 80's. In fact, every study I've been
                              able to find shows that a properly adjusted light-emitting screen (good
                              fonts, anti-aliasing, high resolution, black text on white background)
                              works just fine for reading.

                              Of course, very few of the e-reading apps I've tried were "properly
                              adjusted", in that sense. In the days of the Palm, it just couldn't be
                              done -- the hardware wasn't up to it. So, sure, if you've been at it
                              since the mid-80's, and the hardware hasn't really been capable till the
                              mid-00's, you had to suffer through 20 years of sub-par e-reading
                              experience.

                              Bill
                            • jlandahl2003
                              Summarizing a bit from the various posts on this topic, I would say that there s little agreement on the relative merits of the Apple iPad and the e-ink
                              Message 14 of 23 , Feb 2, 2010
                                Summarizing a bit from the various posts on this topic, I would say that there's little agreement on the relative merits of the Apple iPad and the e-ink reading devices, of which the Amazon Kindle is an example. As Joseph points out, individual readers vary considerably in their preferences. I personally much prefer reading on my Kindle to reading on my HP iPaq or my ancient PowerBook Titanium with its lovely 15" color screen and I do find that fluorescent backlit displays seem harder on my eyes. Possibly I would find an LCD backlit display more comfortable. However, it's clear from this discussion that many people strongly prefer a color display, and Bill has made the interesting point that Amazon may move in this direction as the Kindle evolves, especially with the iPad as competition.

                                What stands out to me from the comments here is not the technical comparison of the two types of devices and their features but the difference in their size and weight. If the Forrester analyst is right, what the Kindle and its kin have going for them is not any sort of technical superiority or even the Kindle's free wireless Internet access, but simply that they're easier to bring along in a purse or coat pocket and to hold in one hand while riding the subway or waiting in line.

                                As an aside, I like to read over a meal and the Kindle takes up less space on the table than most paperbacks, let alone a hardcover, which opened and laid flat is probably about as big as an iPad. I don't have to worry about pages flopping back like I do with a print book, either--I just wish I could turn pages with a voice command to have both hands free for eating! Still, with a print book, it's sometimes hard to hold it open and turn pages with one hand, which is all I need for the Kindle.

                                What the Forrester analyst may be thinking is that the iPad and the iBookstore will boost the visibility of ebooks and expand the overall market for reading devices. Because of their size and weight the e-ink devices will continue to appeal to many purchasers, although the iPad will almost certainly sell very strongly.

                                John

                                --- In ebook-community@yahoogroups.com, "joseph harris" <smilepoet@...> wrote:
                                <snip>
                                > I find in a lot of arguments about publishing as a business that people tend to extrapolate their own experience, rather than consider how much variation there is. ...
                                </snip>
                                >
                                > Joseph
                                >
                                > Joseph Harris - Debt Control Man
                                > http://www.controlyourdebtcrisis.co.uk
                                > Author: Control Your Debt Crisis on Your Own Terms
                                > http://twitter.com/debtcontrolman
                                > SAQ - SAve the cheQue
                                >
                              • joseph harris
                                From: Richard Seltzer ... Richard, This is an interesting point, but it may have a psychological edge - or an emotional one. Like most today, I assume the
                                Message 15 of 23 , Feb 3, 2010
                                  From: "Richard Seltzer"
                                  ......
                                  > For me, reading on the Kindle is a pleasure, and reading on a computer is
                                  > work.
                                  >
                                  > Best wishes.
                                  >
                                  > Richard
                                  >
                                  > Richard Seltzer, seltzer@..., 617-469-2269
                                  > http://www.samizdat.com, http://www.samizdat.com/blog,
                                  > http://twitter.com/richardseltzer
                                  > Book collections on CD and DVD http://samizdat.stores.yahoo.net/
                                  > 3700+ ebooks for Amazon's Kindle http://www.samizdat.com/kindle 5000+ for
                                  > Sony and 5700+ for Barnes and Noble
                                  > As featured in the New York Times
                                  > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/09/arts/09conn.html
                                  >

                                  Richard,

                                  This is an interesting point, but it may have a psychological edge - or an emotional one.

                                  Like most today, I assume the computer has to do with work, including all its frustrations! Reading on the Kindle, on the other hand, is immersing yourself in your love of books.

                                  And even if you are reading to assess many of those books the use of the Kindle is quite separate from the use of the computer. Someone else suggested that those who expect a bad experience will have one; might it also be true that those who expect a good experience get that?

                                  Joseph


                                  Joseph Harris - Debt Control Man
                                  http://www.controlyourdebtcrisis.co.uk
                                  Author: Control Your Debt Crisis on Your Own Terms
                                  http://twitter.com/debtcontrolman
                                  SAQ - SAve the cheQue
                                • Brenna Lyons
                                  ... note that the doctors point vision impaired readers to e-books. That says something. Personally, I don t find reading from a screen hard on the eyes. Some
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Feb 3, 2010
                                    On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Richard Seltzer <seltzer@...>wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Who cares about ophthamologists and studies?
                                    > The question is do you enjoy reading on the device? Do you read for hour
                                    > after hour? Or do you get drowsy and stop after a chapter or so?
                                    > For me, reading on the Kindle is a pleasure, and reading on a computer is
                                    > work.
                                    >
                                    > I'd say whoever asked the question cares. Grin... At the same time, I will
                                    note that the doctors point vision impaired readers to e-books. That says
                                    something.

                                    Personally, I don't find reading from a screen hard on the eyes. Some people
                                    do.

                                    Brenna
                                    --
                                    http://www.brennalyons.com http://www.facebook.com/brenna.lyons
                                    "The chemistry is burn-the-tips-of-your-fingers hot. I love Ms. Lyons� style
                                    of writing, as well as her ability to bring emotion to the page � even as
                                    she kicks up the heat. An engaging and thoroughly enjoyable read. Be sure to
                                    put ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS YOU on your TBR list." Fern for Whipped
                                    Cream Reviews 4.5 Cherries


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • groovy_ahk
                                    It is my understanding that the iPad will automatically hook up to wireless hotspots, or your own home wireless network, at no charge. For many people, this
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Feb 3, 2010
                                      It is my understanding that the iPad will automatically hook up to wireless hotspots, or your own home wireless network, at no charge. For many people, this will be enough.

                                      Amy Kalinchuk
                                      http://www.crafte-revolution.com



                                      --- In ebook-community@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Seltzer" <seltzer@...> wrote:

                                      > But the real killer -- what makes the iPad useless as an ebook reader, from
                                      > my perspective -- is that Apple will charge a monthly fee for connectivity,
                                      > while the Kindle has free wireless service.
                                    • Robotech_Master
                                      ... I have read e-books on: A Palm IIIe, Visor Deluxe, Clié 415, Clié 760, Nokia 770, 1st-gen iPod Touch, Sony Reader PRS-700, and an Astak 5 Pocket Pro
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Feb 3, 2010
                                        On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Richard Seltzer <seltzer@...> wrote:
                                        > Who cares about ophthamologists and studies?
                                        > The question is do you enjoy reading on the device?  Do you read for hour
                                        > after hour?  Or do you get drowsy and stop after a chapter or so?
                                        > For me, reading on the Kindle is a pleasure, and reading on a computer is
                                        > work.

                                        I have read e-books on: A Palm IIIe, Visor Deluxe, Clié 415, Clié 760,
                                        Nokia 770, 1st-gen iPod Touch, Sony Reader PRS-700, and an Astak 5"
                                        Pocket Pro EZReader. (And my desktop and laptop computers, of course.)

                                        I talk about the devices up through the Touch here:
                                        http://www.teleread.org/2008/12/30/reading-devices-i-have-known/
                                        and the Sony here:
                                        http://www.teleread.org/category/two-weeks-with-a-sony-prs-700/
                                        and the Astak here: http://www.teleread.org/category/two-weeks-with-an-astak-5/

                                        The Palm and Visor were monochrome 160x160 LCD. The 415 was monochrome
                                        320x320, the 760 color 320x320, the Nokia was color at a resolution I
                                        forget, and the Touch 480x320 color LCD. The PRS-700 was a 6" 800x600
                                        e-ink screen (with touch-sensitive glare layer) and the Astak,
                                        naturally, a 5" 800x600.

                                        Despite the e-ink being quite easy to read in all light conditions, I
                                        never noticed any more eyestrain using my iPod Touch. (In fact, in
                                        some situations I had LESS eyestrain from the Touch, because it didn't
                                        have the obnoxious reflective glare of the Sony 700.) In fact, even
                                        though I just had the e-ink readers on a review basis, I never felt
                                        any more of a pang than momentary wistfulness in sending them back,
                                        because the Touch just works better for reading in almost all
                                        situations.

                                        Funny thing, though. Long after my original Clié 415 died, I bought
                                        another, remembering how easy I found it to read from back when I had
                                        it, and thinking that it might make a decent e-book device for my Dad.
                                        But when I tried to read from it, it was nowhere near as good an
                                        experience as I had remembered—the level of contrast made e-ink look
                                        stark black-and-white by comparison. I guess I was spoiled by all the
                                        color screens since. :)

                                        Now, there are some people who *have* tried reading off of color LCD
                                        screens, such as the iPod Touch/iPhone or others, and said it made
                                        their eyes hurt. I won't argue their experiences with them. To a
                                        certain extent I think this is subjective. It's the same way that some
                                        people love the 3D effects of Avatar while they give others blinding
                                        headaches.

                                        I just know I've never had any trouble. Maybe when I get older and my
                                        eyes start to go I will, but right now, it's just fine by me.

                                        At the moment, I really don't have any desire for an e-ink reader as
                                        long as I can keep my iPod Touch in my pocket and read e-books in a
                                        variety of different formats. If I were to have the discretionary
                                        income to get one (which wouldn't be any time soon, even if I had a
                                        job) it would probably be a Kindle for the free wireless access and
                                        the ability to synchronize reading between Kindle, PC, and iPod
                                        Touch—but it's so big and bulky that I simply wouldn't HAVE it in most
                                        situations. There's only so much I can haul around on my person, and
                                        given the choice between carrying a bulky Kindle or a bulky laptop,
                                        I'll take the laptop, because I can do more stuff with it when I get
                                        where I'm going.

                                        --
                                        Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
                                        Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
                                        robotech.master@... | Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
                                        robotech@... | Facebook: Robotech.Master | a sig file!
                                      • jlandahl2003
                                        Good point, Amy! I actually bought my Amazon Kindle 2 because I was curious about the utility of the free wireless Internet with the experimental web browser.
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Feb 3, 2010
                                          Good point, Amy! I actually bought my Amazon Kindle 2 because I was curious about the utility of the free wireless Internet with the experimental web browser. I find that it does work and the speed is good, but that I seldom use it because for me it falls in the category of "you can if you want to bad enough." I suspect that was deliberate on Amazon's part. The keyboard with its tiny keys seems to have been designed to be so difficult to use, especially for entering symbols and punctuation, that it's way too much effort to use my Kindle to check my email, look up Google maps, or even read news websites. (I do appreciate being able to enter text to search my ebooks for, though). At this point I'd have to say that the advantage of free wireless Internet access is a theoretical one, not a practical one.

                                          John

                                          --- In ebook-community@yahoogroups.com, "groovy_ahk" <theoldecrone@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > It is my understanding that the iPad will automatically hook up to wireless hotspots, or your own home wireless network, at no charge. For many people, this will be enough.
                                          >
                                          > Amy Kalinchuk
                                          > http://www.crafte-revolution.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In ebook-community@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Seltzer" <seltzer@> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > But the real killer -- what makes the iPad useless as an ebook reader, from
                                          > > my perspective -- is that Apple will charge a monthly fee for connectivity,
                                          > > while the Kindle has free wireless service.
                                          >
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