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Re: Pirate site

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  • auwg
    ... I don t buy the ignorance angle. ... A literary pirate is one who sells, trades, or otherwise shares things when such actions are proscribed by law. ...
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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      --- In ebook-community@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth K. Burton"
      <EBurton@z...> wrote:
      > My point, which apparently wasn't expressed clearly enough, is that the
      > immediate assumption was that the website owner was a pirate, as
      > opposed to someone simply ignorant of the fact they were illegally
      > disseminating copyrighted material.

      I don't buy the 'ignorance' angle.

      > A pirate, by my definition, acts with evil intent.

      A literary pirate is one who sells, trades, or otherwise shares things
      when such actions are proscribed by law.

      > And I agree that DRM
      > is not only evil as well but pointless. What bothers me is seeing
      > people accused of evil when what's really the problem is simple
      > ignorance--and sentence being applied by a kangaroo court.

      You decided to define 'evil' according to your opinions, then apply
      that label as you saw fit.

      I don't really care what motivations for piracy were involved and
      don't think the pirates should have apologists among the ranks of
      authors and publishers.
      Ed Howdershelt - Abintra Press
      Science Fiction & Semi-Fiction
      http://www.AbintraPress.com
      @Fictionwise: http://tinyurl.com/26v45
    • Elizabeth K. Burton
      Which is precisely why I compared the initial response to the site as identical to that of the RIAA. If writers and editors and even publishers have problems
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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        Which is precisely why I compared the initial response to the site as
        identical to that of the RIAA.

        If writers and editors and even publishers have problems grasping the
        nuances of copyright law, especially US law in its current version, to
        condemn someone as a thief when their only real sin is ignorance is, in
        my opinion, overkill. I give you the referent definition of "pirate"
        from Webster:

        "a person who appropriates and reproduces the work or invention of
        another, without authorization, for his own profit."

        I don't know if I accept Leslie's explanation that he/she wasn't aware
        there were copyrighted works among the collection but that's not the
        point. The majority of the "pirate" sites that have been called to my
        attention were just like this one--someone wanting to do with ebooks
        what they do with print books--exchange the ones they've read for ones
        they haven't. Because they don't understand what they're doing is
        actually "reprinting" the book--making a duplicate--they are also
        unaware they are violating the law.

        And one could, I suppose, argue that getting new reading matter
        qualifies as "profit," but that's the kind of legal nitpicking we
        already have too much of, and which I've come to see is slowly
        strangling creativity. Once upon a time writers freely quoted from
        other works, expanding the horizons of the readers who might then seek
        out the original work for more information. Now, with the huge charges
        copyright holders want for a single line, that no longer happens. Some
        publishers have even gone so far as to prohibit the use of brand names
        in the books they publish, so a character who would naturally say "How
        about a Coke?" now says "How about a soft drink?"

        So, I sent a note, pointed out what he/she was doing was a violation of
        the law and could result in criminal sanctions and recommended he/she
        remove the copyrighted material. This isn't going to stop him/her from
        offering those same books to anyone via email, but there's a limit to
        how much control one can exercise over an individual. Which is why
        those in power would like us to buy LICENSES for our music and movies
        and ebooks instead of owning them.

        In other words, Ed, where you seem to immediately assume guilt, I prefer
        to presume innocence. It's the American Way. :-)

        Liz

        Elizabeth K. Burton, Executive Editor
        Zumaya Publications
        3209 S. IH 35 #1086
        Austin TX 78741-6905
        Ph. 512-707-2694 (voice mail)
        http://www.zumayapublications.com


        > -------- Original Message --------
        > Subject: [ebook-community] Re: Pirate site
        > From: "auwg" <auwg@...>
        > Date: Tue, March 01, 2005 3:27 am
        > To: ebook-community@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > --- In ebook-community@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth K. Burton"
        > <EBurton@z...> wrote:
        > > My point, which apparently wasn't expressed clearly enough, is that the
        > > immediate assumption was that the website owner was a pirate, as
        > > opposed to someone simply ignorant of the fact they were illegally
        > > disseminating copyrighted material.
        >
        > I don't buy the 'ignorance' angle.
        >
        > > A pirate, by my definition, acts with evil intent.
        >
        > A literary pirate is one who sells, trades, or otherwise shares things
        > when such actions are proscribed by law.
        >
        > > And I agree that DRM
        > > is not only evil as well but pointless. What bothers me is seeing
        > > people accused of evil when what's really the problem is simple
        > > ignorance--and sentence being applied by a kangaroo court.
        >
        > You decided to define 'evil' according to your opinions, then apply
        > that label as you saw fit.
        >
        > I don't really care what motivations for piracy were involved and
        > don't think the pirates should have apologists among the ranks of
        > authors and publishers.
        > Ed Howdershelt - Abintra Press
        > Science Fiction & Semi-Fiction
        > http://www.AbintraPress.com
        > @Fictionwise: http://tinyurl.com/26v45
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • auwg
        ... Yup. One could. ... I d planned to see if he/she d send me a copy of my own book, then take action. ... YOU RE assuming that I had already assigned guilt.
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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          --- In ebook-community@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth K. Burton"
          <EBurton@z...> wrote:
          > And one could, I suppose, argue that getting new reading matter
          > qualifies as "profit,"

          Yup. One could.

          > So, I sent a note, pointed out what he/she was doing was a violation of
          > the law and could result in criminal sanctions and recommended he/she
          > remove the copyrighted material. This isn't going to stop him/her from
          > offering those same books to anyone via email, but there's a limit to
          > how much control one can exercise over an individual.

          I'd planned to see if he/she'd send me a copy of my own book, then
          take action.

          > In other words, Ed, where you seem to immediately assume guilt, I prefer
          > to presume innocence. It's the American Way. :-)

          YOU'RE assuming that I had already assigned guilt.
          I had assumed only that his/her website offer to trade books -- mine
          included -- was serious.
          Don't wrap yourself in the flag. It clashes with your
          'holier-than-thou' shoes.
          Since you spooked the suspect, I can no longer conveniently determine
          whether the suspect would commit the crime by sending me my book.
          Gee, thanks.
          Have we discussed this enough yet?
          Ed Howdershelt - Abintra Press
          Science Fiction & Semi-Fiction
          http://www.AbintraPress.com
          @Fictionwise: http://tinyurl.com/26v45
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