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Re: [EK Sooth Guild] Prohibitions against Soothsaying at events

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  • dicconf
    ... As Catherine said, check the laws in the town. Some towns have anti-hippie and anti-gypsy laws that prohibit the use of any rented space for
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 18, 2013
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      - In eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com, "shannon_blue" <shannon_blue@...> wrote:

      > If I wanted to "read some omens" for people as an SCA event (and for free) would that matter?

      As Catherine said, check the laws in the town. Some towns have "anti-hippie" and "anti-gypsy" laws that prohibit the use of any rented space for fortunetelling, even when no money changes hands.

      Assuming that the autocrat has not forbidden it, within the SCA, be sure that the omens are not for the outcome of a fighting or archery competition. The reason is that a prediction could affect someone's confidence and thus affect the result, and such competitions are supposed to be fair and honorable, with no possibility of psychological trickery.

      =Tamar
    • Tchipakkan
      Tue Jun 18, 2013: shannon_blue shannon_blue asked: If I wanted to read some omens for people as an SCA event (and for free) would that matter? Catherine
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 19, 2013
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        Tue Jun 18, 2013:"shannon_blue" shannon_blue
        asked:
        If I wanted to "read some omens" for people as an SCA event (and for free) would that matter?

        Catherine covered it legally- but generally, even at big events where there are police they generally ignore us. Rather than asking them, (they probably don't know and will say "no" to everything just in case), if you do it out of their line of sight, it's not going to cause a problem. Tamar is correct, the autocrat is the one to make the call. Again, if you aren't doing it as a piece of shtick in the middle of everything, it probably won't come up. If the autocrat asks you to stop, even if it's off to the side, you do. That's just how the SCA works. But they generally don't mind. Doing something in period and in persona where it's not interfering with the main activities of the event (again, Tamar is correct, even if the other competitors don't know, telling one that the omens have favored them can be an advantage) soothsaying is OK. I'd also add that if there's a theme to an event, try to go along with the theme, people put a lot of work into SCA events, and that deserves respect and support.
        Tchipakkan
        "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - C.G.Jung



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Catherine Kane
        I believe (and please remember I am not a lawyer) that SCA events count as large private parties. A law against soothsaying (such as the Mass one I cited)
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 19, 2013
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          I believe (and please remember I am not a lawyer) that SCA events count as large private parties. A law against soothsaying (such as the Mass one I cited) might or might not apply at that point

          In the SCA, the pertinent points seem to be

          not in the main area, because it means folks who are bothered by it can't enjoy the primary event
          not for tourneys and other compeititions, because it can give a psychological advantage/disadvantage
          when in doubt, consult the autocrat
           
          Catherine du Fay, legal gadabout and histerical psychic

          --- On Wed, 6/19/13, Tchipakkan <tchipakkan@...> wrote:


          From: Tchipakkan <tchipakkan@...>
          Subject: [EK Sooth Guild] Re: Prohibitions against Soothsaying at events
          To: eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013, 1:27 PM



           



          Tue Jun 18, 2013:"shannon_blue" shannon_blue
          asked:
          If I wanted to "read some omens" for people as an SCA event (and for free) would that matter?

          Catherine covered it legally- but generally, even at big events where there are police they generally ignore us. Rather than asking them, (they probably don't know and will say "no" to everything just in case), if you do it out of their line of sight, it's not going to cause a problem. Tamar is correct, the autocrat is the one to make the call. Again, if you aren't doing it as a piece of shtick in the middle of everything, it probably won't come up. If the autocrat asks you to stop, even if it's off to the side, you do. That's just how the SCA works. But they generally don't mind. Doing something in period and in persona where it's not interfering with the main activities of the event (again, Tamar is correct, even if the other competitors don't know, telling one that the omens have favored them can be an advantage) soothsaying is OK. I'd also add that if there's a theme to an event, try to go along with the theme, people put a lot of work into SCA
          events, and that deserves respect and support.
          Tchipakkan
          "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - C.G.Jung

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • shannon_blue
          Interesting, after all the events I have been to I have never seen soothsaying being offered at one. I was thinking about doing some Iron Age omen readings
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 7, 2013
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            Interesting, after all the events I have been to I have never seen soothsaying being offered at one. I was thinking about doing some "Iron Age" omen readings because the Iron Age is my focus. But now - I am not so sure I should concider doing this because the Iron Age predates the focus of most in the SCA and there seems to be political tenderness about the topic - i.e. What if one autocrat says yes, but the other one says no.

            --- In eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com, Catherine Kane <ckane01@...> wrote:
            >
            > I believe (and please remember I am not a lawyer) that SCA events count as large private parties. A law against soothsaying (such as the Mass one I cited) might or might not apply at that point
            >
            > In the SCA, the pertinent points seem to be
            >
            > not in the main area, because it means folks who are bothered by it can't enjoy the primary event
            > not for tourneys and other compeititions, because it can give a psychological advantage/disadvantage
            > when in doubt, consult the autocrat
            >  
            > Catherine du Fay, legal gadabout and histerical psychic
            >
            > --- On Wed, 6/19/13, Tchipakkan <tchipakkan@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Tchipakkan <tchipakkan@...>
            > Subject: [EK Sooth Guild] Re: Prohibitions against Soothsaying at events
            > To: eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013, 1:27 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > Tue Jun 18, 2013:"shannon_blue" shannon_blue
            > asked:
            > If I wanted to "read some omens" for people as an SCA event (and for free) would that matter?
            >
            > Catherine covered it legally- but generally, even at big events where there are police they generally ignore us. Rather than asking them, (they probably don't know and will say "no" to everything just in case), if you do it out of their line of sight, it's not going to cause a problem. Tamar is correct, the autocrat is the one to make the call. Again, if you aren't doing it as a piece of shtick in the middle of everything, it probably won't come up. If the autocrat asks you to stop, even if it's off to the side, you do. That's just how the SCA works. But they generally don't mind. Doing something in period and in persona where it's not interfering with the main activities of the event (again, Tamar is correct, even if the other competitors don't know, telling one that the omens have favored them can be an advantage) soothsaying is OK. I'd also add that if there's a theme to an event, try to go along with the theme, people put a lot of work into SCA
            > events, and that deserves respect and support.
            > Tchipakkan
            > "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - C.G.Jung
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Catherine Kane
            Two for the same event or for different events? Different events are easy- you go by the autocra s rules. If there are 2 for the same who disagree, you can
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 7, 2013
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              Two for the same event or for different events? Different events are easy- you go by the autocra's rules. If there are 2 for the same who disagree, you can politely ask them to discuss it and get back to you

              and as for Iron Age predating the Medieval period, there are plenty of other early influences
              (Greek, Roman, Celtic, etc) that are carried over into later periods.Medievl folk were good at hanging onto practices and customs that still have some good wear in them

              If you haven't seen soothing at the events you've attended, that doesn't mean it isn't happening. Starwolf and I soothd at events for years, and I've taught at events. Some activities only happen at some events


              Catherine du Fay


              --- On Sun, 7/7/13, shannon_blue <shannon_blue@...> wrote:


              From: shannon_blue <shannon_blue@...>
              Subject: [EK Sooth Guild] Re: Prohibitions against Soothsaying at events
              To: eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, July 7, 2013, 1:05 PM



               



              Interesting, after all the events I have been to I have never seen soothsaying being offered at one. I was thinking about doing some "Iron Age" omen readings because the Iron Age is my focus. But now - I am not so sure I should concider doing this because the Iron Age predates the focus of most in the SCA and there seems to be political tenderness about the topic - i.e. What if one autocrat says yes, but the other one says no.

              --- In eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com, Catherine Kane <ckane01@...> wrote:
              >
              > I believe (and please remember I am not a lawyer) that SCA events count as large private parties. A law against soothsaying (such as the Mass one I cited) might or might not apply at that point
              >
              > In the SCA, the pertinent points seem to be
              >
              > not in the main area, because it means folks who are bothered by it can't enjoy the primary event
              > not for tourneys and other compeititions, because it can give a psychological advantage/disadvantage
              > when in doubt, consult the autocrat
              >  
              > Catherine du Fay, legal gadabout and histerical psychic
              >
              > --- On Wed, 6/19/13, Tchipakkan <tchipakkan@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: Tchipakkan <tchipakkan@...>
              > Subject: [EK Sooth Guild] Re: Prohibitions against Soothsaying at events
              > To: eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013, 1:27 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              > Tue Jun 18, 2013:"shannon_blue" shannon_blue
              > asked:
              > If I wanted to "read some omens" for people as an SCA event (and for free) would that matter?
              >
              > Catherine covered it legally- but generally, even at big events where there are police they generally ignore us. Rather than asking them, (they probably don't know and will say "no" to everything just in case), if you do it out of their line of sight, it's not going to cause a problem. Tamar is correct, the autocrat is the one to make the call. Again, if you aren't doing it as a piece of shtick in the middle of everything, it probably won't come up. If the autocrat asks you to stop, even if it's off to the side, you do. That's just how the SCA works. But they generally don't mind. Doing something in period and in persona where it's not interfering with the main activities of the event (again, Tamar is correct, even if the other competitors don't know, telling one that the omens have favored them can be an advantage) soothsaying is OK. I'd also add that if there's a theme to an event, try to go along with the theme, people put a lot of work into SCA
              > events, and that deserves respect and support.
              > Tchipakkan
              > "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - C.G.Jung
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >








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