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This year's Ecumenicon theme

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  • dicconf
    The tarot sequence themes for Ecumenicon have reached the difficult one: The Devil, sometimes called Fate. Now, I don t believe in either one, but I don t run
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 4, 2013
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      The tarot sequence themes for Ecumenicon have reached the
      difficult one: The Devil, sometimes called Fate.
      Now, I don't believe in either one, but I don't run the con.
      (Rosanna Tufts is in full charge of it now, FYI. Charles
      is going to Brazil.)

      Does anyone have ideas for how to adapt the theme for
      positive teachings? I read the card as "things you
      don't personally control," which is still a tricky topic
      to work with, as I am also against the attitude of
      "give-up-you're-helpless" which I have seen some people
      promote.

      =Tamar
    • Catherine Kane
      Sometimes you re not in complete control. Sometimes you  may be unable to shape reality to your will and your job is to watch out for obstacles and ski around
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 4, 2013
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        Sometimes you're not in complete control. Sometimes you  may be unable to shape reality to your will and your job is to watch out for obstacles and ski around them
         
        Catherine du Fay

        --- On Tue, 2/5/13, dicconf <dicconf@...> wrote:


        From: dicconf <dicconf@...>
        Subject: [EK Sooth Guild] This year's Ecumenicon theme
        To: eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2013, 12:39 AM



         



        The tarot sequence themes for Ecumenicon have reached the
        difficult one: The Devil, sometimes called Fate.
        Now, I don't believe in either one, but I don't run the con.
        (Rosanna Tufts is in full charge of it now, FYI. Charles
        is going to Brazil.)

        Does anyone have ideas for how to adapt the theme for
        positive teachings? I read the card as "things you
        don't personally control," which is still a tricky topic
        to work with, as I am also against the attitude of
        "give-up-you're-helpless" which I have seen some people
        promote.

        =Tamar








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Julia Johnson
        Greetings, all-- and especially Cousin Tamar-- To be honest with you, I don t read that card in a literal sense. I tend to view The Tower as an unchangeable
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 5, 2013
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          Greetings, all-- and especially Cousin Tamar--

          To be honest with you, I don't read that card in a literal sense. I tend to
          view "The Tower" as an unchangeable fate, not so much in the sense of
          predestination but moreso as a path that has been chosen by the client.
          More like a path that has already been set in motion. I don't view the card
          as positive or negative in and of itself, I gather that information by the
          surrounding/correlating cards. But that's neither here nor there, I only
          posted that so you'd know why I don't view "The Devil" card as a fated
          destiny.

          I also don't view it as a literal devil. I tend to see this card as a
          negative influence in someone's life-- usually a person, but not
          necessarily-- really, it can be any kind of noun (person, place, thing, or
          idea) or verb (for example, an action that the client is taking currently,
          or something that is being done or has been done by someone in the past or
          present or will be done in the future). This *thing*, whatever it is, is
          holding the person back in some way, or hindering their growth, or keeping
          the client from reaching his/her full potential. In many decks, this card
          shows an image of a devil character holding chains around two people, one
          man and one woman; to me, this can represent "the ties that bind" the
          client to said noun or verb, or any of the aforementioned examples of being
          bound to a situation or repeated action.

          If you want to put a positive spin on this, you can say that this is a card
          that represents a negative influence, but that (fortunately for the client)
          it's almost never a permanent state of being. Its sphere of influence,
          unlike other cards, tends to be more temporary than not. To put it another
          way, this hardship that the client is currently facing will eventually pass
          in almost all cases-- either the "devil" figure will leave the client's
          life, or the client will leave the "devilish" noun or action behind. If
          this is NOT the case, it is because of a choice that the client has made--
          for example, if a mother or father is particularly toxic, and the client
          refuses (or feels as if he/she can't, for emotional reasons) leave this
          person/situation-- and as with the temporary situations where this card
          crops up, the meaning behind it can be found by looking at this card in
          conjunction with the others in the spread.

          "The Devil" could also represent temptation that the client will face... an
          obstacle that will need to be overcome. It can be considered a personal
          journey, an "inner demon" if you will, or even an indication that there
          will be many bumps in the road ahead.

          Personally, as a reader, I tell my clients (before I read, mind you) about
          the way I read and the way I view tarot. It doesn't change everyone's point
          of view-- some clients are very "woe is me!" and "my life is awful and it's
          my fate and there's nothing I can ever do to change these things!" and "I
          don't have any control over my life because it's all been chosen for me and
          it's all bad!"-- but for the most part, people seem to understand the
          message that I give, and find it to be a relief to some extent, and a
          welcome change from a fatalistic view.

          See, I explain that very few situations in life and tarot readings are
          predestined in that they will happen no matter which path is taken or which
          choice is made. For the most part, our lives are made up of our choices and
          reactions to situations that are, essentially, the results of prior
          situations and actions that have been made or taken by ourselves or other
          people. I tell them that if there is any situation that they do not like in
          the reading, 9 times out of 10 they can change their future by deciding
          that they do not like the sound of it, and making choices that will
          mitigate the negative impact or eliminate the situation entirely. I mention
          that the reading itself can often act as a catalyst, in that the act of
          having one can change the future that was shown, ESPECIALLY if the client
          truly wants to make those changes! I emphasize that if it DOES happen to
          fall under the "1 in 10" category that I will let them know the difference,
          and that in *those* cases the reading often serves its purpose as a "heads
          up". In other words, it comes up in the reading so that the client can be
          prepared to deal with the situation that is shown. I make sure to say that
          readings are often a catalyst for change-- that the act of having one can
          very easily change the future that is shown, especially if the client takes
          appropriate steps to make sure that the negative situation does not come to
          pass.

          The bottom line of my message is that if there is something that you (as my
          client) do not like the sound of, that you can almost always take steps to
          change your life for the better. Natasha Bedingfield had it right when she
          sang the song "Unwritten," if you ask me~!

          So, long story short, I hope this has helped you. If I've been unclear,
          I'll try my best to straighten out my position on things, but as I'm about
          to go on a long-overdue vacation it'll have to be in about 10 days, when I
          get back.

          Good luck, and let me know if there's anything else I can do to help! <3

          Yours in Service,
          Marajil ad-Dimashquiyyah

          On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:39 AM, dicconf <dicconf@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > The tarot sequence themes for Ecumenicon have reached the
          > difficult one: The Devil, sometimes called Fate.
          > Now, I don't believe in either one, but I don't run the con.
          > (Rosanna Tufts is in full charge of it now, FYI. Charles
          > is going to Brazil.)
          >
          > Does anyone have ideas for how to adapt the theme for
          > positive teachings? I read the card as "things you
          > don't personally control," which is still a tricky topic
          > to work with, as I am also against the attitude of
          > "give-up-you're-helpless" which I have seen some people
          > promote.
          >
          > =Tamar
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lois Fitzpatrick
          My take on The Devil is that someone is not seeing their situation clearly. There are solutions to remedy whatever problem they are facing, if they only take
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 5, 2013
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            My take on "The Devil" is that someone is not seeing their situation
            clearly. There are solutions to remedy whatever problem they are facing, if
            they only take another look. The client is being restricted by his/her own
            lack of perspective.

            Interesting discussion this is generating!

            Elena



            From: eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dicconf
            Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:39 AM
            To: eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [EK Sooth Guild] This year's Ecumenicon theme





            The tarot sequence themes for Ecumenicon have reached the
            difficult one: The Devil, sometimes called Fate.
            Now, I don't believe in either one, but I don't run the con.
            (Rosanna Tufts is in full charge of it now, FYI. Charles
            is going to Brazil.)

            Does anyone have ideas for how to adapt the theme for
            positive teachings? I read the card as "things you
            don't personally control," which is still a tricky topic
            to work with, as I am also against the attitude of
            "give-up-you're-helpless" which I have seen some people
            promote.

            =Tamar





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Demon Walker
            I usually interpret it as the monkey trap. Lorenzo Send More Brainnnnsssss !!!!!! ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 5, 2013
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              I usually interpret it as the monkey trap.

              Lorenzo

              Send More Brainnnnsssss !!!!!!
              On Feb 5, 2013 9:40 AM, "Lois Fitzpatrick" <soothsyr@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > My take on "The Devil" is that someone is not seeing their situation
              > clearly. There are solutions to remedy whatever problem they are facing, if
              > they only take another look. The client is being restricted by his/her own
              > lack of perspective.
              >
              > Interesting discussion this is generating!
              >
              > Elena
              >
              > From: eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dicconf
              > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:39 AM
              > To: eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [EK Sooth Guild] This year's Ecumenicon theme
              >
              > The tarot sequence themes for Ecumenicon have reached the
              > difficult one: The Devil, sometimes called Fate.
              > Now, I don't believe in either one, but I don't run the con.
              > (Rosanna Tufts is in full charge of it now, FYI. Charles
              > is going to Brazil.)
              >
              > Does anyone have ideas for how to adapt the theme for
              > positive teachings? I read the card as "things you
              > don't personally control," which is still a tricky topic
              > to work with, as I am also against the attitude of
              > "give-up-you're-helpless" which I have seen some people
              > promote.
              >
              > =Tamar
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jeanne Wardwell
              The monkey trap, yes; Robin Wood s deck illustrates that. But many other decks that have the usual illustration spoken of here also show that the ropes or
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 5, 2013
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                The monkey trap, yes; Robin Wood's deck illustrates that.

                But many other decks that have the usual illustration spoken of here also
                show that the ropes or cords around the necks of the people in thrall are not
                all that tight! Even if their hands are bound, they could slip out of those
                nooses--if they really want to.

                Morwenna
              • Tchipakkan
                I ve often seen it as bad habits/addictions. But monkey trap is better- one must be careful not to underplay the power of not being able to see the solution.
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 6, 2013
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                  I've often seen it as bad habits/addictions. But monkey trap is better- one must be careful not to underplay the power of not being able to see the solution.
                  Arastorm

                  "Have you no idea of progress, of development?"

                  "I have seen them both in an egg, " said Caspian. "We call it Going Bad in Narnia.""



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • ladyarli@...
                  I ve been reading all of these comments with interest. This is a really good thread . I have what might be a dumb question, what is a monkey trap ? I ve
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 7, 2013
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                    I've been reading all of these comments with interest. This is a really good "thread". I have what might be a dumb question, what is a "monkey trap"? I've never heard that term before.

                    Regards,
                    Aurelie



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Tchipakkan <tchipakkan@...>
                    To: eastkingdomsoothsayersguild <eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wed, Feb 6, 2013 7:37 pm
                    Subject: [EK Sooth Guild] Re: This year's Ecumenicon theme




                    I've often seen it as bad habits/addictions. But monkey trap is better- one must be careful not to underplay the power of not being able to see the solution.
                    Arastorm

                    "Have you no idea of progress, of development?"

                    "I have seen them both in an egg, " said Caspian. "We call it Going Bad in Narnia.""

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Lauren Grover
                    I think that we all realize that there are times when we can t change what s going on. We can always change how we react, and we can always find something to
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 7, 2013
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                      I think that we all realize that there are times when we can't change
                      what's going on. We can always change how we react, and we can always find
                      something to do that may not affect the core situation but still affects
                      our lives positively.
                      Also, the Devil generally gets you because of your own choices, and in q
                      spread may serve as a warning of what will result from the current path.
                      How to recognize and change bad decisions is also very positive, as is
                      possibly how to make reparations. Not fun, but useful, positive, and very
                      important.
                      Ghazalah
                      On Feb 5, 2013 12:39 AM, "dicconf" <dicconf@...> wrote:

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      > The tarot sequence themes for Ecumenicon have reached the
                      > difficult one: The Devil, sometimes called Fate.
                      > Now, I don't believe in either one, but I don't run the con.
                      > (Rosanna Tufts is in full charge of it now, FYI. Charles
                      > is going to Brazil.)
                      >
                      > Does anyone have ideas for how to adapt the theme for
                      > positive teachings? I read the card as "things you
                      > don't personally control," which is still a tricky topic
                      > to work with, as I am also against the attitude of
                      > "give-up-you're-helpless" which I have seen some people
                      > promote.
                      >
                      > =Tamar
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • dicconf
                      ... Put something solid - hard fruit, nuts, etc - inside a firmly fastened down container with a narrow opening. The Monkey reaches in, grabs a handful, and
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 7, 2013
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                        - In eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com, ladyarli@... wrote:
                        > what is a "monkey trap"? I've never heard that term before.

                        Put something solid - hard fruit, nuts, etc - inside a firmly fastened down container with a narrow opening. The Monkey reaches in, grabs a handful, and can't get its fist back out; it's trapped. If the Monkey let go and took only one item, maybe holding it with the fingertips, it could get its hand out and even get one piece of food at a time.

                        In the past it has been used with respect to Halloween candy, when people had more time to wait for the kid to catch on.

                        =Tamar
                      • Demon Walker
                        People trap themselves by their choices or their inability to decide. Send More Brainnnnsssss !!!!!! ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 12 , Feb 8, 2013
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                          People trap themselves by their choices or their inability to decide.

                          Send More Brainnnnsssss !!!!!!
                          On Feb 8, 2013 2:11 AM, "dicconf" <dicconf@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > - In eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com, ladyarli@... wrote:
                          > > what is a "monkey trap"? I've never heard that term before.
                          >
                          > Put something solid - hard fruit, nuts, etc - inside a firmly fastened
                          > down container with a narrow opening. The Monkey reaches in, grabs a
                          > handful, and can't get its fist back out; it's trapped. If the Monkey let
                          > go and took only one item, maybe holding it with the fingertips, it could
                          > get its hand out and even get one piece of food at a time.
                          >
                          > In the past it has been used with respect to Halloween candy, when people
                          > had more time to wait for the kid to catch on.
                          >
                          > =Tamar
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • dicconf
                          ... Sometimes refusing to make the decision is the real decision, as it prevents change without the (perceived) responsibility of taking action. Speaking of
                          Message 12 of 12 , Feb 11, 2013
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                            - In eastkingdomsoothsayersguild@yahoogroups.com, Demon Walker wrote:
                            >
                            > People trap themselves by their choices or their inability to decide.
                            >
                            > Send More Brainnnnsssss !!!!!!

                            Sometimes refusing to make the decision is the real decision, as it prevents change without the (perceived) responsibility of taking action.

                            Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure I won't be teaching at Ecumenicon this year, but the discussion has been helpful anyway. Thanks!

                            =Tamar
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