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Baroque flute maker gets big article in San Francisco Chronicle!

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  • bitschon
    Daniel Deitch from San Francisco got an article & a video posted in the San Francisco Chron!
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 2, 2009
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      Daniel Deitch from San Francisco got an article & a video posted in
      the San Francisco Chron!

      http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/02/DDRQ1619BQ.DTL&hw=deitch&sn=001&sc=1000
    • Susan Maclagan
      Thanks very much for the heads up. I really enjoyed seeing all that. What is the tool that he is holding in the flute picture and what is he doing with it?
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 2, 2009
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        Thanks very much for the heads up. I really enjoyed seeing all that.
        What is the tool that he is holding in the flute picture and what is he doing with it?
        Also, can anyone tell us about the picture in the video (at 20 seconds).

        Thanks in advance,
        Susan

        Susan Maclagan
        "A Dictionary for the Modern Flutist," Scarecrow Press, April 2009.
        Reviews: http://tinyurl.com/9v79mz
        Sample Entry:
        http://www.straubingerflutes.com/link.html#maclagan
        Dictionary home page:
        http://tinyurl.com/au3lok
        About the book:
        http://www.scarecrowpress.com/Catalog/Flyer2.shtml?SKU=0810867117

        --- On Mon, 3/2/09, bitschon <bitschon@...> wrote:

        Daniel Deitch from San Francisco got an article & a video posted in
        the San Francisco Chron!

        http://www.sfgate. com/cgi-bin/ article.cgi? f=/c/a/2009/ 03/02/DDRQ1619BQ .DTL&hw=deitch& sn=001&sc= 1000

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      • Steven Goldman
        Susan, Wow, I thought that answering the question about the painting would be easy, but when I did a fact check I find that the more I know, the less I know.
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 2, 2009
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          Susan,

           

          Wow, I thought that answering the question about the painting would be easy, but when I did a fact check I find that the more I know, the less I know. It seems there are several copies in existence and it is called by several names (A group of musicians or Les ordinaires de la musique du Roi are most common)  It seems that it has been attributed to at least three painters, usually Bouys but also de Troy and Tournieres, and every famous French baroque composer has been identified as one of the group by one scholar or another. The identification that most (not all) agree on is the standing figure is Michel de La Barre. The other flutes are identified as one or more Hotteterres, P.D. Philidor, and/or an unnamed aristocrat! The gamba player is identified as Marais or Forqueray. So, the only thing I’m sure of at this point is they know less about the painting than I thought they did. So my question is, has anyone sorted through all this and come up with either a definitive answer to these questions, or at least an honest assessment of what we really know and what is just assorted theories that are usually repeated as fact in secondary sources? I’m sure one of our assorted scholars has the answer.

           

          Thanks for the link, bitschon. It’s been several years since I’ve been to Daniel’s shop (he made my clarinets) and it’s nice to see that some things don’t change.

           

          Steve Goldman

           

          From: earlyflute@yahoogroups.com [mailto:earlyflute@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Maclagan
          Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 6:25 PM
          To: earlyflute@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [earlyflute] Baroque flute maker gets big article in San Francisco Chronicle!

           

          Thanks very much for the heads up. I really enjoyed seeing all that.
          What is the tool that he is holding in the flute picture and what is he doing with it?
          Also, can anyone tell us about the picture in the video (at 20 seconds).

          Thanks in advance,
          Susan

          Susan Maclagan
          "A Dictionary for the Modern Flutist," Scarecrow Press, April 2009.
          Reviews: http://tinyurl.com/9v79mz
          Sample Entry:
          http://www.straubingerflutes.com/link.html#maclagan
          Dictionary home page:
          http://tinyurl.com/au3lok
          About the book:
          http://www.scarecrowpress.com/Catalog/Flyer2.shtml?SKU=0810867117

          --- On Mon, 3/2/09, bitschon <bitschon@...> wrote:

          Daniel Deitch from San Francisco got an article & a video posted in
          the San Francisco Chron!

          http://www.sfgate. com/cgi-bin/ article.cgi? f=/c/a/2009/ 03/02/DDRQ1619BQ .DTL&hw=deitch& sn=001&sc= 1000

          _

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        • rod cameron
          Good to see you in the Chronicle, Daniel! I agree with the reporter, Daniel is a fine and generous fellow, and has a good deal of experience. After a visit to
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 2, 2009
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            Good to see you in the Chronicle, Daniel!

            I agree with the reporter, Daniel is a fine and generous fellow, and has a good deal of experience.

            After a visit to my workshop, I received a priceless gift from Daniel, and I treasure it. He make me a miniature of the Brussels Denner baroque bassoon. It is only about four inches tall, yet is fully keyed, including working compound keys. No it is not a playing model, unless you are the size of a mouse, but it is very lovely ...thank you Daniel!

            Susan,

            The original painting is housed in the National Gallery in Trafalgar Square in London, and is often called:

            'La Barre and other Musicians"  

            It is also said to be the Hotteterre Brothers...... Jean, Paul, George, and Ringo

            Oops, sorry about that!

            It is  a large canvas, and painted in wonderful detail. For years it intrigued us, as it looked like the long solid ivory flute had additional tone holes that might possibly have been experimental holes added to the normal six open holes, to give  G # and F natural without fork fingerings. However in the last several years, a copy has come to light in France that did not show these holes, and careful restoration showed these "tone holes" to be dirt on the canvas. I believe the original painting now does not show them. I went to re-study the painting last year, and it was not in public view. The picture has often been reproduced on posters, and the like. The Gallery have taken very good photographs of this painting, and will print and mail you a copy of high resolution in various sizes.

            Select Google and "Images" then type:

            "la barre and other musicians"

            and several good images will come up of the painting.

            I am sure that my colleagues, Robert Bigio, Rachel Brown, and other London based scholars will be able to correct and/or add to my short posting?

            best wishes!

            Rod
             
            On Mar 2, 2009, at 4:25 PM, Susan Maclagan wrote:


            Thanks very much for the heads up. I really enjoyed seeing all that.
            What is the tool that he is holding in the flute picture and what is he doing with it?
            Also, can anyone tell us about the picture in the video (at 20 seconds).

            Thanks in advance,
            Susan

            Susan Maclagan
            "A Dictionary for the Modern Flutist," Scarecrow Press, April 2009.
            Reviews: http://tinyurl. com/9v79mz
            Sample Entry:
            http://www.straubin gerflutes. com/link. html#maclagan
            Dictionary home page:
            http://tinyurl. com/au3lok
            About the book:
            http://www.scarecro wpress.com/ Catalog/Flyer2. shtml?SKU= 0810867117

            --- On Mon, 3/2/09, bitschon <bitschon@yahoo. com> wrote:

            Daniel Deitch from San Francisco got an article & a video posted in
            the San Francisco Chron!

            http://www.sfgate. com/cgi-bin/ article.cgi? f=/c/a/2009/ 03/02/DDRQ1619BQ .DTL&hw=deitch& sn=001&sc= 1000

            _
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          • Susan Maclagan
            Hi Steven, Thanks so much for the information! It s even interesting to know that no one really knows the history behind the painting. Best wishes, Susan Susan
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 3, 2009
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              Hi Steven,

              Thanks so much for the information! It's even interesting to know that no one really knows the history behind the painting.

              Best wishes,
              Susan

              Susan Maclagan
              "A Dictionary for the Modern Flutist," Scarecrow Press, April 2009.
              Reviews: http://tinyurl.com/9v79mz
              Sample Entry: http://www.straubingerflutes.com/link.html#maclagan
              Dictionary home page:http://tinyurl.com/au3lok
              About the book:
              http://www.scarecrowpress.com/Catalog/Flyer2.shtml?SKU=0810867117

              --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Steven Goldman <sjgoldman@...> wrote: Wow, I thought that answering the question about the painting would be easy, but when I did a fact check I find that the more I know, the less I know. It seems there are several copies in existence and it is called by several names (A group of musicians or Les ordinaires de la musique du Roi are most common)  It seems that it has been attributed to at least three painters, usually Bouys but also de Troy and Tournieres, and every famous French baroque composer has been identified as one of the group by one scholar or another. The identification that most (not all) agree on is the standing figure is Michel de La Barre. The other flutes are identified as one or more Hotteterres, P.D. Philidor, and/or an unnamed aristocrat! The gamba player is identified as Marais or Forqueray. So, the only thing I’m sure of at this point is they know less about the painting than I thought they did. So my question is, has anyone sorted through all this and come up with either a definitive answer to these questions, or at least an honest assessment of what we really know and what is just assorted theories that are usually repeated as fact in secondary sources? I’m sure one of our assorted scholars has the answer. 

              From: Susan Maclagan
              ......can anyone tell us about the picture in the video (at 20 seconds).

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            • Philippe Allain-Dupré
              Hi I think Mary Oleskiewicz has answered a few questions about this painting; Mary Oleskiewicz The hole truth and nothing but the truth: the resolution of a
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 3, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi
                I think Mary Oleskiewicz has answered a few questions about this painting;
                 
                Mary Oleskiewicz
                The hole truth and nothing but the truth: the resolution of a problem in flute iconography
                Early Music, 2001; XXIX: 56 - 59.
                best
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:03 PM
                Subject: RE: [earlyflute] Baroque flute maker gets big article in San Francisco Chronicle!

                Hi Steven,

                Thanks so much for the information! It's even interesting to know that no one really knows the history behind the painting.

                Best wishes,
                Susan

                Susan Maclagan
                "A Dictionary for the Modern Flutist," Scarecrow Press, April 2009.
                Reviews: http://tinyurl. com/9v79mz
                Sample Entry: http://www.straubin gerflutes. com/link. html#maclagan
                Dictionary home page:http:// tinyurl.com/ au3lok
                About the book:
                http://www.scarecro wpress.com/ Catalog/Flyer2. shtml?SKU= 0810867117

                --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Steven Goldman <sjgoldman@msn. com> wrote: Wow, I thought that answering the question about the painting would be easy, but when I did a fact check I find that the more I know, the less I know. It seems there are several copies in existence and it is called by several names (A group of musicians or Les ordinaires de la musique du Roi are most common)  It seems that it has been attributed to at least three painters, usually Bouys but also de Troy and Tournieres, and every famous French baroque composer has been identified as one of the group by one scholar or another. The identification that most (not all) agree on is the standing figure is Michel de La Barre. The other flutes are identified as one or more Hotteterres, P.D. Philidor, and/or an unnamed aristocrat! The gamba player is identified as Marais or Forqueray. So, the only thing I’m sure of at this point is they know less about the painting than I thought they did. So my question is, has anyone sorted through all this and come up with either a definitive answer to these questions, or at least an honest assessment of what we really know and what is just assorted theories that are usually repeated as fact in secondary sources? I’m sure one of our assorted scholars has the answer. 

                From: Susan Maclagan
                ......can anyone tell us about the picture in the video (at 20 seconds).

                Yahoo! News

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                it, but it's true

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                e-commerce tools.

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              • Susan Maclagan
                Hi Rod, Thanks very much for your help. I really enjoyed the details! Best wishes, Susan Susan Maclagan A Dictionary for the Modern Flutist, Scarecrow Press,
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 3, 2009
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                  Hi Rod,

                  Thanks very much for your help. I really enjoyed the details!

                  Best wishes,
                  Susan

                  Susan Maclagan
                  "A Dictionary for the Modern Flutist," Scarecrow Press, April 2009.
                  Reviews: http://tinyurl.com/9v79mz
                  Sample Entry:
                  http://www.straubingerflutes.com/link.html#maclagan

                  --- On Tue, 3/3/09, rod cameron <rcameron@...> wrote
                  The original painting is housed in the National Gallery in Trafalgar Square in London, and is often called:

                  'La Barre and other Musicians"  

                  It is also said to be the Hotteterre Brothers.... .. Jean, Paul, George, and Ringo

                  Oops, sorry about that!

                  It is  a large canvas, and painted in wonderful detail. For years it intrigued us, as it looked like the long solid ivory flute had additional tone holes that might possibly have been experimental holes added to the normal six open holes, to give  G # and F natural without fork fingerings. However in the last several years, a copy has come to light in France that did not show these holes, and careful restoration showed these "tone holes" to be dirt on the canvas. I believe the original painting now does not show them. I went to re-study the painting last year, and it was not in public view. The picture has often been reproduced on posters, and the like. The Gallery have taken very good photographs  of this painting, and will print and mail you a copy of high resolution in various sizes.

                  Select Google and "Images" then type:

                  "la barre and other musicians"

                  and several good images will come up of the painting.

                  I am sure that my colleagues, Robert Bigio, Rachel Brown, and other London based scholars will be able to correct and/or add to my short posting?

                  best wishes!

                  Rod
                   
                  On Mar 2, 2009, at 4:25 PM, Susan Maclagan wrote:

                  Also, can anyone tell us about the picture in the video (at 20 seconds).

                  --- On Mon, 3/2/09, bitschon <bitschon@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  Daniel Deitch from San Francisco got an article & a video posted in
                  the San Francisco Chron!

                  http://www.sfgate. com/cgi-bin/ article.cgi? f=/c/a/2009/ 03/02/DDRQ1619BQ .DTL&hw=deitch& sn=001&sc= 1000




                  Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger
                • Susan Maclagan
                  Thanks very much, Philippe! I ll check it out. Best wishes, Susan Susan Maclagan A Dictionary for the Modern Flutist, Scarecrow Press, April 2009. Reviews:
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 3, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks very much, Philippe! I'll check it out.

                    Best wishes,
                    Susan

                    Susan Maclagan
                    "A Dictionary for the Modern Flutist," Scarecrow Press, April 2009.
                    Reviews: http://tinyurl.com/9v79mz
                    Sample Entry:
                    http://www.straubingerflutes.com/link.html#maclagan

                    --- On Tue, 3/3/09, Philippe Allain-Dupré <allain-dupre@...> wrote:
                    Hi
                    I think Mary Oleskiewicz has answered a few questions about this painting;
                     
                    Mary Oleskiewicz
                    The hole truth and nothing but the truth: the resolution of a problem in flute iconography
                    Early Music, 2001; XXIX: 56 - 59.
                    best
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                  • Steven Goldman
                    Thanks Philippe. I missed that one when it first appeared and didn’t pick it up on a lit. search because the painting is called by yet another title (La
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 3, 2009
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                      Thanks Philippe. I missed that one when it first appeared and didn’t pick it up on a lit. search because the painting is called by yet another title (La Barre and other musicians) It clears up who the painter was and confirms Rod’s comments. I guess identifying the musicians will remain just a parlor game, at least until the Polaroids of the boy’s Friday night poker games that Couperin took turn up.

                       

                      Steve Goldman

                       

                      From: earlyflute@yahoogroups.com [mailto:earlyflute@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philippe Allain-Dupré
                      Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:25 AM
                      To: earlyflute@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [earlyflute] Baroque flute maker gets big article in San Francisco Chronicle!

                       

                      Hi

                      I think Mary Oleskiewicz has answered a few questions about this painting;

                       

                      Mary Oleskiewicz
                      The hole truth and nothing but the truth: the resolution of a problem in flute iconography
                      Early Music, 2001; XXIX: 56 - 59.

                      best

                      ----- Original Message -----

                      Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:03 PM

                      Subject: RE: [earlyflute] Baroque flute maker gets big article in San Francisco Chronicle!

                       

                      Hi Steven,

                      Thanks so much for the information! It's even interesting to know that no one really knows the history behind the painting.

                      Best wishes,
                      Susan

                      Susan Maclagan
                      "A Dictionary for the Modern Flutist," Scarecrow Press, April 2009.
                      Reviews: http://tinyurl.com/9v79mz
                      Sample Entry: http://www.straubingerflutes.com/link.html#maclagan
                      Dictionary home page:http://tinyurl.com/au3lok
                      About the book:
                      http://www.scarecrowpress.com/Catalog/Flyer2.shtml?SKU=0810867117

                      --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Steven Goldman <sjgoldman@...> wrote: Wow, I thought that answering the question about the painting would be easy, but when I did a fact check I find that the more I know, the less I know. It seems there are several copies in existence and it is called by several names (A group of musicians or Les ordinaires de la musique du Roi are most common)  It seems that it has been attributed to at least three painters, usually Bouys but also de Troy and Tournieres, and every famous French baroque composer has been identified as one of the group by one scholar or another. The identification that most (not all) agree on is the standing figure is Michel de La Barre. The other flutes are identified as one or more Hotteterres, P.D. Philidor, and/or an unnamed aristocrat! The gamba player is identified as Marais or Forqueray. So, the only thing I’m sure of at this point is they know less about the painting than I thought they did. So my question is, has anyone sorted through all this and come up with either a definitive answer to these questions, or at least an honest assessment of what we really know and what is just assorted theories that are usually repeated as fact in secondary sources? I’m sure one of our assorted scholars has the answer. 

                      From: Susan Maclagan
                      ......can anyone tell us about the picture in the video (at 20 seconds).

                      Yahoo! News

                      Odd News

                      You won't believe

                      it, but it's true

                      Sell Online

                      Start selling with

                      our award-winning

                      e-commerce tools.

                      Ads on Yahoo!

                      Learn more now.

                      Reach customers

                      searching for you.

                      .

                       


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