Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Kirst

Expand Messages
  • James Roland Harris
    Hi Everyone, If anyone out there has a 6-8 key Kirst flute by Claire Soubeyran and would be willing to send it to me for a few days for rent or possible
    Message 1 of 25 , Mar 7 11:10 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Everyone,

      If anyone out there has a 6-8 key Kirst flute by Claire Soubeyran and would be willing to send it to me for a few days for rent or possible purchase, please email me privately and we'll take it from there.
      Thanks.
      Jim
    • Jean-Francois Beaudin
      Hello Everyone I would like to complete soon my drawing of the Bressan flute at the Miller Collection, no:DCM 1207. This is a very rare exemple of a three
      Message 2 of 25 , Mar 7 12:00 PM
      • 0 Attachment

        Hello Everyone

        I would like to complete soon my drawing of the Bressan flute at the Miller Collection, no:DCM 1207. This is a very rare exemple of a three pieces early french style flute from this maker. It has a short cap like the Rippert of Glasgow but an unique foot shape with a large ring at the end. Unfortunatly the original center joint is lost. Is there someone here who worked on the reconstitution of this center (with success) and would be willing to give me the measurements to be added on my drawing as a suggestion ?
        How many Bressan original as survived ? Were they are ? Three or four parts ?
        1- Miller DCM1207 in three parts.
        2- British Museum, in four parts with silver ornaments. I never measured this one.
        3-
        4-

        Jean-François





        Jean-François Beaudin
        312 Chemin Richford
        Frelighsburg, Quebec,
        Canada. J0J 1C0  
        Tel : (450) 298-5161
        Fax : (450) 298-5161
        jfbeaudin@...
        www.flute-beaudin.com


        Windows Live Spaces: partagez vos photos avec vos amis!
      • James Roland Harris
        Hi Jean-François, Robert Sanders used to make copies of the Miller Bressan. I ve forwarded your post to him. As far as I know, only three traversi by Bressan
        Message 3 of 25 , Mar 7 12:29 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Jean-François,

          Robert Sanders used to make copies of the Miller Bressan.  I've forwarded your post to him.

          As far as I know, only three traversi by Bressan have survived, "so far."  There is the Miller Bressan with the non-original center joint you mention. , There's the V&A Bressan Rod as you know has reproduced.  The third is the ebony three-piece flute by Bressan which has been in Guy Oldham's collection for many years.  Contact Ardal Powell about that flute.  I believe that Folkers & Powell are the only makers to have reproduced it, at A405.

          Jim,


          Jean-Francois Beaudin wrote:

          Hello Everyone

          I would like to complete soon my drawing of the Bressan flute at the Miller Collection, no:DCM 1207. This is a very rare exemple of a three pieces early french style flute from this maker. It has a short cap like the Rippert of Glasgow but an unique foot shape with a large ring at the end. Unfortunatly the original center joint is lost. Is there someone here who worked on the reconstitution of this center (with success) and would be willing to give me the measurements to be added on my drawing as a suggestion ?
          How many Bressan original as survived ? Were they are ? Three or four parts ?
          1- Miller DCM1207 in three parts.
          2- British Museum, in four parts with silver ornaments. I never measured this one.
          3-
          4-

          Jean-François





          Jean-François Beaudin
          312 Chemin Richford
          Frelighsburg, Quebec,
          Canada. J0J 1C0  
          Tel : (450) 298-5161
          Fax : (450) 298-5161
          jfbeaudin@hotmail. com
          www.flute-beaudin. com


          Windows Live Spaces: partagez vos photos avec vos amis!
          
          
        • James Roland Harris
          Hi Jean-François, Robert Sanders used to make copies of the Miller Bressan. I ve forwarded your post to him. As far as I know, only three traversi by Bressan
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 7 12:30 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Jean-François,

            Robert Sanders used to make copies of the Miller Bressan.  I've forwarded your post to him.

            As far as I know, only three traversi by Bressan have survived, "so far."  There is the Miller Bressan with the non-original center joint you mention. , There's the V&A Bressan Rod as you know has reproduced.  The third is the ebony three-piece flute by Bressan which has been in Guy Oldham's collection for many years.  Contact Ardal Powell about that flute.  I believe that Folkers & Powell are the only makers to have reproduced it, at A405.

            Jim,


            Jean-Francois Beaudin wrote:

            Hello Everyone

            I would like to complete soon my drawing of the Bressan flute at the Miller Collection, no:DCM 1207. This is a very rare exemple of a three pieces early french style flute from this maker. It has a short cap like the Rippert of Glasgow but an unique foot shape with a large ring at the end. Unfortunatly the original center joint is lost. Is there someone here who worked on the reconstitution of this center (with success) and would be willing to give me the measurements to be added on my drawing as a suggestion ?
            How many Bressan original as survived ? Were they are ? Three or four parts ?
            1- Miller DCM1207 in three parts.
            2- British Museum, in four parts with silver ornaments. I never measured this one.
            3-
            4-

            Jean-François





            
            
          • James Roland Harris
            Hello Again Jean-François, I forgot to mention in my previous post that I believe Gerhard Kowalewsky also copies the Miller Bressan flute. You can find his
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 7 5:02 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Again Jean-François,

              I forgot to mention in my previous post that I believe Gerhard Kowalewsky also copies the Miller Bressan flute.  You can find his contact information on Jim Scott's Baroque Flute Makers list.
              All the Best,
              Jim

              Jean-Francois Beaudin wrote:

              Hello Everyone

              I would like to complete soon my drawing of the Bressan flute at the Miller Collection, no:DCM 1207. This is a very rare exemple of a three pieces early french style flute from this maker. It has a short cap like the Rippert of Glasgow but an unique foot shape with a large ring at the end. Unfortunatly the original center joint is lost. Is there someone here who worked on the reconstitution of this center (with success) and would be willing to give me the measurements to be added on my drawing as a suggestion ?
              How many Bressan original as survived ? Were they are ? Three or four parts ?
              1- Miller DCM1207 in three parts.
              2- British Museum, in four parts with silver ornaments. I never measured this one.
              3-
              4-

              Jean-François




            • James Roland Harris
              Further still, Jean-François --- I played one of Gerhard s boxwood Bressan flutes several years when visiting him in Germany, and found it to be a beautiful,
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 7 5:56 PM
              • 0 Attachment

                Further still, Jean-François --- I played one of Gerhard's boxwood Bressan flutes several years when visiting him in Germany, and found it to be a beautiful, powerful, and quite successful copy.
                Jim

                Hello Again Jean-François,

                I forgot to mention in my previous post that I believe Gerhard Kowalewsky also copies the Miller Bressan flute.  You can find his contact information on Jim Scott's Baroque Flute Makers list.
                All the Best,
                Jim

                Jean-Francois Beaudin wrote:

                Hello Everyone

                I would like to complete soon my drawing of the Bressan flute at the Miller Collection, no:DCM 1207. This is a very rare exemple of a three pieces early french style flute from this maker. It has a short cap like the Rippert of Glasgow but an unique foot shape with a large ring at the end. Unfortunatly the original center joint is lost. Is there someone here who worked on the reconstitution of this center (with success) and would be willing to give me the measurements to be added on my drawing as a suggestion ?
                How many Bressan original as survived ? Were they are ? Three or four parts ?
                1- Miller DCM1207 in three parts.
                2- British Museum, in four parts with silver ornaments. I never measured this one.
                3-
                4-

                Jean-François




              • Courtney Westcott Peter Noy
                Hello J.F. and James, I think there are only three Bressan. Dayton Miller s was found in the flea market of Mexico City. Courtney and I measured the Victoria
                Message 7 of 25 , Mar 7 6:31 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello J.F. and James,

                  I think there are only three Bressan. Dayton Miller's was found in the flea market of Mexico City.

                  Courtney and I measured the Victoria and Albert Museum Bressan, and Guy Oldham's in '89. He is a kind and generous man who told of how, in the early 60's, he would ride out  to fairs from London on his bicycle to look for flutes.   Once he got lucky and bought  the third Bressan for a few pounds. Like finding a Strad at the Sally Anne. I wonder how he is today?

                  Give me an e-mail if you would like my drawing.

                  Peter Noy

                   
                  On Mar 7, 2007, at 12:00 PM, Jean-Francois Beaudin wrote:

                  Hello Everyone

                  I would like to complete soon my drawing of the Bressan flute at the Miller Collection, no:DCM 1207. This is a very rare exemple of a three pieces early french style flute from this maker. It has a short cap like the Rippert of Glasgow but an unique foot shape with a large ring at the end. Unfortunatly the original center joint is lost. Is there someone here who worked on the reconstitution of this center (with success) and would be willing to give me the measurements to be added on my drawing as a suggestion ?
                  How many Bressan original as survived ? Were they are ? Three or four parts ?
                  1- Miller DCM1207 in three parts.
                  2- British Museum, in four parts with silver ornaments. I never measured this one.
                  3-
                  4-

                  Jean-François





                  Jean-François Beaudin
                  312 Chemin Richford
                  Frelighsburg, Quebec,
                  Canada. J0J 1C0  
                  Tel : (450) 298-5161
                  Fax : (450) 298-5161
                  jfbeaudin@...
                  www.flute-beaudin.com


                  Windows Live Spaces: partagez vos photos avec vos amis!

                • Boaz Berney
                  Dear Jean-Francois, I have seen the original a few years ago in DC and was very much intrigued by it. Do you know who made the middle joint for it? On one
                  Message 8 of 25 , Mar 8 12:04 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Jean-Francois,

                    I have seen the original a few years ago in DC and was very much intrigued by it.  Do you know who made the middle joint for it?  On one hand I remember it having a faint stamp and the bore looked like it would fit such an early three part instrument:  It is made with very clear steps, and has a very shallow conicity (I remember something like 19 to 16 or 15.5) the foot was almost straight and of a correspondingly wide bore.  The tuning, on the other hand was really out, and it was obvious that something was wrong with the middle joint, which also seems too short for such a flute.  I really didn't know what to make of it, but thought that it was an original which is worth looking into.  Do you (or anyone else on the list who have studied the flute) have any solutions to these questions?

                    Best wishes,
                    Boaz

                    --

                    Boaz Berney - Historical flutes
                    http://www.berneyflutes.com
                     
                    P.O.B 41140,  Jaffa,  61411 Israel
                    Tel: +972-(0)3-6811233      

                  • Jean-Francois Beaudin
                    I decided to offer to the group the access to my drawing for giving a better knowledge of this flute for whom is not familiar with it. Some of you who are
                    Message 9 of 25 , Mar 8 5:08 PM
                    • 0 Attachment

                      I decided to offer to the group the access to my drawing for giving a better knowledge of this flute for whom is not familiar with it. Some of you who are maker, may like to try to make this flute and participate in her rebirth. Go to the files collection in the earlyflute yahoogroups pages. = http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/earlyflute/
                      You can see the photo at the Miller collection website = http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?dcm:5:./temp/~ammem_cXRD::

                      I will be waiting for more about the missing center joint.

                      Bon succès

                      Jean-François




                      Jean-François Beaudin
                      312 Chemin Richford
                      Frelighsburg, Quebec,
                      Canada. J0J 1C0  
                      Tel : (450) 298-5161
                      Fax : (450) 298-5161
                      jfbeaudin@...
                      www.flute-beaudin.com


                      Partagez des fichiers de toute taille avec Windows Live messenger!
                    • Philippe Allain-Dupré
                      Dear Jean-François Thank you for sharing your measurements. A few questions: Is the mouthhole 9.25x9.25? what are your reasons to decide that it s not
                      Message 10 of 25 , Mar 9 9:33 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Jean-François
                        Thank you for sharing your measurements.
                        A few questions:
                        Is the mouthhole 9.25x9.25?
                        what are your reasons to decide that it's not original middle joint? (sorry, I probably missed something)
                        The very large bore of the foot reminds me the Assisi flute, as well as the recorder-like turnery of this foot.
                        Very interesting
                        Do you have another link for the photo?
                        Amitiés
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:08 AM
                        Subject: [earlyflute] Bressan-Miller DCM 1207

                        I decided to offer to the group the access to my drawing for giving a better knowledge of this flute for whom is not familiar with it. Some of you who are maker, may like to try to make this flute and participate in her rebirth. Go to the files collection in the earlyflute yahoogroups pages. = http://launch. groups.yahoo. com/group/ earlyflute/
                        You can see the photo at the Miller collection website = http://memory. loc.gov/cgi- bin/query/ D?dcm:5:. /temp/~ammem_ cXRD::

                        I will be waiting for more about the missing center joint.

                        Bon succès

                        Jean-François




                        Jean-François Beaudin
                        312 Chemin Richford
                        Frelighsburg, Quebec,
                        Canada. J0J 1C0  
                        Tel : (450) 298-5161
                        Fax : (450) 298-5161
                        jfbeaudin@hotmail. com
                        www.flute-beaudin. com


                        Partagez des fichiers de toute taille avec Windows Live messenger!

                      • James Roland Harris
                        Hi Jean-François, Many thanks for your post here and the links. Regrettably, though, I cannot get the link for the Bressan photo to open, and the message is
                        Message 11 of 25 , Mar 9 1:04 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Jean-François,

                          Many thanks for your post here and the links.  Regrettably, though, I cannot get the link for the Bressan photo to open, and the message is that the file is not found.

                          There are black-and-white photos of the flute in the late Michael Seyfrit's book, Musical Instruments in the Dayton Miller Collection in the Library of Congress, Volume I (1982).

                          The Bressan is Item Nr. 136.  The partial photo of the foot section's key and boss area are on page 138, the photo of the entire flute on page 307.  The note on page 138 mentions that the middle section (Nr. 2) is not original, although there is no further discussion of the basis for this assertion (cf. Boaz's observation that the length of the middle section seems too short for the flute.)

                          In the summer of 1982, thanks to Mike Seyfrit's kindness, I had the opportunity to play the flute, and at that time, found it to be well in tune, with good sound throughout its playable range.  It does seem eminently worthwhile for a maker of your dedication and expertise perhaps to attempt a reconstruction of a longer center section to see how that works, at what would surely be a lower pitch!

                          I am taking the liberty of forwarding this post, containing yours below, to Robert Sanders, who, besides Gerhard Kowalewsky in Germany, is the only maker I know to have reproduced this flute.

                          Bien à vous,

                          Jim


                          Jean-Francois Beaudin wrote:

                          I decided to offer to the group the access to my drawing for giving a better knowledge of this flute for whom is not familiar with it. Some of you who are maker, may like to try to make this flute and participate in her rebirth. Go to the files collection in the earlyflute yahoogroups pages. = http://launch. groups.yahoo. com/group/ earlyflute/
                          You can see the photo at the Miller collection website = http://memory. loc.gov/cgi- bin/query/ D?dcm:5:. /temp/~ammem_ cXRD::

                          I will be waiting for more about the missing center joint.

                          Bon succès

                          Jean-François






                        • Terry McGee
                          ... I don t think you can do direct links to items in the DCM website database. You need to go to http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dcmquery.html and enter a
                          Message 12 of 25 , Mar 9 1:16 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            At 04:33 AM 10/03/2007, you wrote:
                            Dear Jean-François
                            Thank you for sharing your measurements.
                            A few questions:
                            Is the mouthhole 9.25x9.25?
                            what are your reasons to decide that it's not original middle joint? (sorry, I probably missed something)
                            The very large bore of the foot reminds me the Assisi flute, as well as the recorder-like turnery of this foot.
                            Very interesting
                            Do you have another link for the photo?

                            I don't think you can do direct links to items in the DCM website database.  You need to go to
                            http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dcmquery.html and enter a description, keyword or DCM nnnn into the search box, where nnnn is the acquisition number in the collection.  In this case you could enter Bressan to see a list of holdings by this maker or DCM 1207 to go directly to that record.  Note you need the space between DCM and the numbers, and I think if the leading number is 0, you need to enter that too (eg DCM 0175, not DCM 175).  Just 1207 will get you there too, but could get confused with any other mention of 1207, eg should there be an instrument of that length.

                            Bon voyage!

                            Terry


                            Amitiés
                            Philippe Allain-Dupré
                            http://perso.club-internet.fr/allaindu/discographie/
                            http://perso.club-internet.fr/allaindu/fluterenaissance/
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Jean-Francois Beaudin
                            To: earlyflute@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:08 AM
                            Subject: [earlyflute] Bressan-Miller DCM 1207

                            I decided to offer to the group the access to my drawing for giving a better knowledge of this flute for whom is not familiar with it. Some of you who are maker, may like to try to make this flute and participate in her rebirth. Go to the files collection in the earlyflute yahoogroups pages. = http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/earlyflute/
                            You can see the photo at the Miller collection website = http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?dcm:5:./temp/~ammem_cXRD::

                            I will be waiting for more about the missing center joint.

                            Bon succès

                            Jean-François



                            Jean-François Beaudin
                            312 Chemin Richford
                            Frelighsburg, Quebec,
                            Canada. J0J 1C0   []
                            Tel : (450) 298-5161
                            Fax : (450) 298-5161
                            jfbeaudin@...
                            www.flute-beaudin.com



                            Partagez des fichiers de toute taille avec Windows Live messenger!

                            Please Note our change of address!

                            Terry McGee - flutes, flute research, restorations and repairs

                            3 Bunderra Court (off Bunderra Circuit), Malua Bay, NSW, 2536
                            Ph +61 (0)2 4471 3837; Fax +61 (0)2 4471 2578    
                            Email: terry@...  Web: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com
                                   
                            For the full story of our move:
                            http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Relocate.htm

                          • Jean-Francois Beaudin
                            Here are my answers to the recent questions. About the embouchure hole, I can not remember if it is round at 9.25x9.25 or oval. On my drawing, there is still
                            Message 13 of 25 , Mar 10 1:56 PM
                            • 0 Attachment

                              Here are my answers to the recent questions.
                              About the embouchure hole, I can not remember if it is round at 9.25x9.25 or oval. On my drawing, there is still many small details missing but at its actual state, it gives a good idea of the instrument.
                              The center joint did not look original, by the finish, the color and the very bad tuning. It is possible that it was made from the time of Miller. I remember to have see at the Library of Congress, the Miller's diary of his flute collection telling the price he payed, the renovations and details about playing qualities. Maybe we could find there the truth about this center joint.

                              It is surprising that the Bressan flutes are still not much copied. We know how famous are his recorders and almost every recorder maker today have one in his list. Maybe there is still more to discover about his traversos.
                              I have compared this Bressan with Rippert and Naust flutes from my drawings. With the closer position of the embouchure hole and the short foot, I would gess that the pitch is around A:405Hz. Is the Assisi flute the best source of inspiraion for the center joint ?

                              Research continue

                              Jean-François




                              Jean-François Beaudin
                              312 Chemin Richford
                              Frelighsburg, Quebec,
                              Canada. J0J 1C0  
                              Tel : (450) 298-5161
                              Fax : (450) 298-5161
                              jfbeaudin@...
                              www.flute-beaudin.com


                              Participez au concours Tournée Live Mobile dès maintenant!
                            • Roberto
                              Dear Jim: You must login in yahoogroups to find and get it... ... Try also the Address that Terry gives us, for a photo. Again, many thanks to Jean Francois
                              Message 14 of 25 , Mar 10 2:32 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dear Jim:

                                You must login in yahoogroups to find and get it...

                                > Many thanks for your post here and the links.
                                > Regrettably, though, I cannot get the link for
                                > the Bressan photo to open, and the message is
                                > that the file is not found.

                                Try also the Address that Terry gives us, for a photo.

                                Again, many thanks to Jean Francois Beaudin, because
                                he is really a man with many experience and a kind of
                                generosity never seen in flutemaking.

                                I have some question about turning, the quality of
                                turning in the XVII-XVII century were absolutly amazing
                                compared with the following periods. They mastered the
                                turning of ivory, (but with witch machinery?), there
                                are some lathe models of these centuries but i think that
                                the accuracy of these are pretty far for ivory turning.

                                http://www.historicgames.com/lathes/bowlathes.html

                                Greetings
                                Roberto Tuninetti (Mendoza, ARG)
                                --
                              • Roberto Tuninetti
                                Dear Francois: After a bit view on the Bressan, i detected that the sockets are too narrow for this kind of flute, about diam 25 (head) and diam 20mm (foot).
                                Message 15 of 25 , Mar 11 7:44 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dear Francois:

                                  After a bit view on the Bressan, i detected
                                  that the sockets are too narrow for this kind
                                  of flute, about diam 25 (head) and diam
                                  20mm (foot).

                                  From the maker side, this mean very thin con-
                                  nectors for the foot, ~2mm (and so fragile).

                                  A diameter of 16mm at the end of the body is
                                  too much, maybe 14mm to 15mm could be the
                                  answer to have good connectors in the foot.

                                  Roberto Tuninetti (Mendoza, ARG)
                                  --
                                • Jean-Francois Beaudin
                                  Roberto I think you/we should firstly trust the good reputation and judgment of Bressan and secondo, try to copy his flute before to imagine something is
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Mar 11 8:28 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    Roberto

                                    I think you/we should firstly trust the good reputation and judgment of Bressan and secondo, try to copy his flute before to imagine something is wrong. Seeing that the foot bore begin at 16.4mm do not mean that the center joint's bore finish at this dimension. It could be 1mm or 1.5mm smaller.
                                    -----------------------------------------------------
                                    Is there someone here who have for me the drawing of the British Museum's original in ebony with silver rings ? We could make and exchange or your price is mine.

                                    Have a good Sunday


                                    Jean-François Beaudin
                                    312 Chemin Richford
                                    Frelighsburg, Quebec,
                                    Canada. J0J 1C0  
                                    Tel : (450) 298-5161
                                    Fax : (450) 298-5161
                                    jfbeaudin@...
                                    www.flute-beaudin.com


                                    Essayez Windows Live Messenger: le futur de MSN Messenger!
                                  • rod cameron
                                    Dear Colleagues. I have been reading this thread with interest, and thank you for all of the postings! I have a copy of the Victoria and Albert Museum drawing
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Mar 11 12:58 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Dear Colleagues.

                                      I have been reading this thread with interest, and thank you for all of the postings!

                                      I have a copy of the Victoria and Albert Museum drawing of the Bressan with wide silver rings and silver inlay.

                                      I regret to say that, just like the drawing of the Nürnberg  Ivory C foot Denner, there is no information or sizes on either of Bressan or Denner blueprints. I have the upmost respect for the Nürnberg Museum, yet when I asked if I might have actual measured sizes,  and also could I play the original, I was told that if I wanted to know how the original played, I should make a copy from the drawings and then play that copy to find out! I was told that I should just measure the sizes off the drawing lines!!  I could hardly believe my ears. Even if the draughtsman was good, the thickness of a pencil line would be far, far greater an error than could be tolerated in a satisfactory copy, and to not be allow to hear the flute speak even for a few moments means that the true data ... its sound ... would be from now on held prisoner, away from scholarship, and henceforth the original flute has to be regarded like a piece of furniture. I do indeed sympathize with the museums, who are charged with the care of the instruments, but surely we must find some middle ground? Fortunately, Friedrich von Huene had measured the Denner while he owned it.

                                      So I  ask graciously that both the Denner and Bressan drawings have their dimensions added to the drawings?

                                      Both of these originals have big playing problems, and these need to be unravelled if  they are to play well as so-called 'copies'. Sometimes very good results can come of this, but we can hardly say that we now have a 'copy'. What we have is a modern invention by the present day maker that indeed might be an excellent flute and have all the good characteristics needed for a flute of that period, but it will hardly be a 'copy'. Likewise any attempt to get the other Bressan flutes to work when they have such large chunks missing would hardly be called a 'copy'. If successful, these should rightly be called speculative experiments based upon filling in huge missing links, and unlikely to be anything that Bressan or Denner would own to.  Let me be the first to say that  the flute I offer in the style of the V and A Bressan had to have serious bore work to be made workable, and in doing this I leaned on some ideas from the work of Stanesby Junior who was in London in Bressan's time, who also made traversi with tenoned headjoints like Bressan, and who favored big fat interiors like Bressan. The two makers had different voicing styles, and Stanesby Junior favored very small voicings.

                                      When I look around today, I see many fine flute makers who work carefully, and I see many fine players who are also scholars in appropriate historical performance, and so I feel that there is plenty informed opinion to let an experimenting flutemaker try her/his hand at speculative construction of a part-missing flute, etc. Feedback as to whether the experiment works will come fast and accurately from players and scholars, however we should not delude ourselves into thinking that the results are anything other than a new and workable flute design. Let me restate that I think this is a good thing to be trying, and why should we not work in this way ...more or less designing from scratch, since that's what most 18th century makers did. My main point is that I should be clearly labeling the work as such.  It would also be very good if any critiques of these attempts where from players who were thoroughly informed on the playing characteristics of good surviving originals.

                                      Let me end with my oft-repeated opinion. I find drawings to be valuable. I have many of my own, and I like to cross check when possible with the drawings of others, yet our chances of capturing the true character of an original flute by working only from a set of drawings are about nil. Do what you can, legitimately, to allow you to play the original, albeit only for a short and therefore safe period, and try to do that more than once, particularly when you have your 'copy' side by side with the original.

                                      Best wishes!

                                      Rod Cameron

                                      PO Box 438
                                      10580 Williams Street
                                      Mendocino, 
                                      CA 95460,  USA
                                      Telelphone:  
                                      studio 707 937 0412
                                      Home 707 937 9921
                                      cell:    707 813 7593



                                      On Mar 11, 2007, at 8:28 AM, Jean-Francois Beaudin wrote:


                                      Roberto

                                      I think you/we should firstly trust the good reputation and judgment of Bressan and secondo, try to copy his flute before to imagine something is wrong. Seeing that the foot bore begin at 16.4mm do not mean that the center joint's bore finish at this dimension. It could be 1mm or 1.5mm smaller.
                                      -----------------------------------------------------
                                      Is there someone here who have for me the drawing of the British Museum's original in ebony with silver rings ? We could make and exchange or your price is mine.

                                      Have a good Sunday


                                      Jean-François Beaudin
                                      312 Chemin Richford
                                      Frelighsburg, Quebec,
                                      Canada. J0J 1C0  
                                      Tel : (450) 298-5161
                                      Fax : (450) 298-5161
                                      jfbeaudin@hotmail.com
                                      www.flute-beaudin.com


                                      Essayez Windows Live Messenger: le futur de MSN Messenger!



                                    • Eva Aralikatti
                                      Dear Jean-François, I just received a list of the flutes measured in Berlin at the Staatl. Institut fuer Musikinstrumentenforschung. Plans seem to be
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Mar 12 2:52 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Dear Jean-François,

                                        I just received a list of the flutes measured in Berlin at the Staatl. Institut fuer Musikinstrumentenforschung.
                                        Plans seem to be available ... the only problem is, that the list I received contains just the names of the maker and the names of the people who took the measurements (which includes you in most instances).

                                        Would you be able to tell me a bit more about these instruments - which of them are somewhere around 415 or 440 Hz and are useful for copying for baroque or irish music? I would be very grateful!!! :-)

                                        Here´s the list:

                                         
                                        QUERFLÖTEN
                                         

                                        H. GRENSER                                                               102                                        J:F: Beaudin

                                        F.G.A. KIRST                                                                473                                         Wolfgang Rauch
                                        SCHERER                                                                   1531                                        Wolfgang Rauch
                                        Oktavflöte. J.H.C. ROTTENBURGH                  2654                                        Wolfgang Rauch
                                                                                                                                                                            F.F. Beaudin

                                        Renaissance in D, anonym                                           2663                                        Dr. Thomas Lerch

                                                                                                                                                                            J.F. Beaudin
                                        unsign., Torso (ohne Kopfstück)                              2666*                                      Wolfgang Rauch
                                        NAUST                                                                       2667                                        Dr. Thomas Lerch
                                                                                                                                                                            Wolfgang Rauch
                                                                                                                                                                            J.F. Beaudin
                                        J:. HOTTETERRE                                                         2670                                        Dr. Thomas Lerch
                                                                                                                                                                            Wolfgang Rauch
                                                                                                                                                                            J.F. Beaudin
                                        Baß, anonym                                                                2698                                        J.F. Beaudin
                                        große Quartflöte, A. SCHÜTZE                              3272                                        Wolfgang Rauch
                                                                                                                                                                            J.F. Beaudin
                                        Elfenbeinflöte, J.J. QUANTZ                          4229                                        Fr. van Huene
                                                                                                                                                                            J.F. Beaudin
                                        A. GREVE                                                                  4306                                        Dr. Thomas Lerch
                                        BOEHM & GREVE                                                           4850                                        Dr. Thomas Lerch
                                        F.G.A. KIRST                                                             4895                                        Wolfgang Rauch
                                                                                                                                                                            J.F. Beaudin
                                        J.A. CRONE                                                               4940                                        Wolfgang Rauch
                                                                                                                                                                            J.F. Beaudin
                                        F.G.A. KIRST                                                             4986                                        Wolfgang Rauch
                                                                                                                                                                            J.F. Beaudin
                                        DUMONT                                                                  5054                                        J.F. Beaudin
                                                                                                                                                                            Dr. Thomas Lerch
                                        unsign., J.J. QUANTZ zugeschrieben               5076                                        Wolfgang Rauch
                                                                                                                                                                            J.F. Beaudin
                                        unsign., Deutschland                                                     5422                                        Wolfgang Rauch
                                                                                                                                                                            J.F. Beaudin
                                        A. GREVE                                                                  5432                                        Wolfgang Rauch


                                        kind regards,
                                        Eva



                                        From: Jean-Francois Beaudin
                                        To: earlyflute@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:08 AM
                                        Subject: [earlyflute] Bressan-Miller DCM 1207

                                        I decided to offer to the group the access to my drawing for giving a better knowledge of this flute for whom is not familiar with it. Some of you who are maker, may like to try to make this flute and participate in her rebirth. Go to the files collection in the earlyflute yahoogroups pages. = http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/earlyflute/
                                        You can see the photo at the Miller collection website = http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?dcm:5:./temp/~ammem_cXRD::

                                        I will be waiting for more about the missing center joint.

                                        Bon succès

                                        Jean-François



                                        Jean-François Beaudin
                                        312 Chemin Richford
                                        Frelighsburg, Quebec,
                                        Canada. J0J 1C0   []
                                        Tel : (450) 298-5161
                                        Fax : (450) 298-5161
                                        jfbeaudin@...
                                        www.flute-beaudin.com



                                        word . Art. work
                                                    Eva Aralikatti
                                               Lehrer-Götz-Weg 20
                                                D - 81825 München


                                      • Eva Aralikatti
                                        sorry, the big print in the list means nothing .... my computer went haywire .... kind regards, Eva ... word . Art. work Eva Aralikatti Lehrer-Götz-Weg 20 D -
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Mar 12 2:56 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          sorry, the big print in the list means nothing .... my computer went haywire ....

                                          kind regards,
                                          Eva



                                          From: Jean-Francois Beaudin
                                          To: earlyflute@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:08 AM
                                          Subject: [earlyflute] Bressan-Miller DCM 1207
                                          I decided to offer to the group the access to my drawing for giving a better knowledge of this flute for whom is not familiar with it. Some of you who are maker, may like to try to make this flute and participate in her rebirth. Go to the files collection in the earlyflute yahoogroups pages. = http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/earlyflute/
                                          You can see the photo at the Miller collection website = http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?dcm:5:./temp/~ammem_cXRD::
                                          I will be waiting for more about the missing center joint.
                                          Bon succès
                                          Jean-François



                                          Jean-François Beaudin
                                          312 Chemin Richford
                                          Frelighsburg, Quebec,
                                          Canada. J0J 1C0   []
                                          Tel : (450) 298-5161
                                          Fax : (450) 298-5161
                                          jfbeaudin@...
                                          www.flute-beaudin.com



                                          word . Art. work
                                                      Eva Aralikatti
                                                 Lehrer-Götz-Weg 20
                                                  D - 81825 München



                                          word . Art. work
                                                      Eva Aralikatti
                                                 Lehrer-Götz-Weg 20
                                                  D - 81825 München


                                        • Thomas Fehr
                                          Hello all VA Bressan: I own the drawing too, but with additional 8 pages of description and bore /hole measurements (but no outer measurements). Foot length:
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Mar 12 3:20 AM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hello all

                                            VA Bressan: I own the drawing too, but with additional 8 pages of
                                            description and bore /hole measurements (but no outer measurements).

                                            Foot length: both (VA and DCM) have the same length plus the same hole
                                            position. The 1991 Denner foot has the same length too (but not the hole
                                            position). So we cannot conlude anything for the original pitch. But
                                            looking at the proportions of the whole instrument I am convinced that
                                            it a should have a long middle joint.

                                            Many years ago I made a well working copy of the DCM Bressan (in 415)
                                            because I like so much the foot form. But since I calculated a entire
                                            new bore I did not put it on my products list. But I did so with the VA
                                            Bressan although I modified the bore on this instrument too.

                                            Copies of originals: Another reason that it is not possible in a strict
                                            sense is the loss of lignin in boxwood instruments over those many years.

                                            regards

                                            Thomas


                                            --
                                            Flötenbau Thomas Fehr
                                            Seestrasse 185
                                            CH-8712 Stäfa

                                            Tel: +41 (0)44 926 65 26
                                            Skype: thomas_fehr
                                            ICQ: 177-916-413

                                            www.floetenbau.ch
                                          • Boaz Berney
                                            In light of the discussion about the DCM Bressan I went into my records to see if I could find the notes I made about the instrument when I saw it about six
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Mar 12 4:28 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              In light of the discussion about the DCM Bressan I went into my records to see if I could find the notes I made about the instrument when I saw it about six years ago.

                                              Here is what I have:

                                              The body of the instrument is not stamped, and according to the DCM ledger "seems to be of a different wood and is probably much later make, a 'repair'".  This probably means that if the body was a later replacement it was done before Miller's time. 
                                              Pitch and tuning:  The original played for me at 415, which is much too high for what you'd expect such an instrument to play at.  394-398 would be a much more plausible pitch.  For that, the middle joint would need to be about 25mm longer then what it is now.  For the internal tuning, all the left-hand notes where far too low to be usable (30-50 cents), which is the opposite of what you'd expect if it has been shorten from the top tenon, in fact the first hole is positioned about 10-20 mm LOWER on the tube then other three part originals.
                                              The only explanation I can have for this is that the middle joint is indeed a later replacement by someone who had a strange idea about flute tuning (or no idea at all), OR that there is an other set of fingering for the instrument, although I couldn't find any convincing ones.  I have tried renaissance fingering for the a'' which corrected the small a octave, but that still didn't help the rest of the notes.

                                              Again, the wide bore of the foot is intriguing, and together with the unusual profile of the foot it gives the impression of an early three part model, like the Assisi flute or the (now lost) Berlin Denner.  I wonder how this flute relates to the other surviving three part Bressan (Oldham's).  Does anyone have any measurements of that one?

                                              Best wishes,
                                              Boaz

                                              --

                                              Boaz Berney - Historical flutes
                                              http://www.berneyflutes.com
                                               
                                              P.O.B 41140,  Jaffa,  61411 Israel
                                              Tel: +972-(0)3-6811233      

                                            • Roberto Tuninetti
                                              ... Dear Francois: I like the entire Bressan work, the turning of the foot is very elegant and have it s own charm (the foot of the Haka model on Ardan
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Mar 12 4:54 PM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                > Roberto

                                                > I think you/we should firstly trust the good reputation and
                                                > judgment of Bressan and secondo, try to copy his flute before to
                                                > imagine something is wrong. Seeing that the foot bore begin at
                                                > 16.4mm do not mean that the center joint's bore finish at this
                                                > dimension. It could be 1mm or 1.5mm smaller.

                                                Dear Francois:

                                                I like the entire Bressan work, the turning of the foot is very
                                                elegant and have it's own charm (the foot of the Haka model
                                                on Ardan Powel's site follows the same design but have a
                                                less pronounced shape), definitively the flute is part of the
                                                XVII century and after the modifications that Mr Beaudin
                                                and Mr.Berney suggested ("For that, the middle joint would
                                                need to be about 25mm longer"), the flute should have a
                                                very rich sound and personality at 405hz.

                                                The interesting fact of this flute sets very well into the "path
                                                of transition" between Haka and Hotteterre.

                                                Francois you did a very good job showing us part of your
                                                "hard" work contributing in the flute history and restoration.

                                                Roberto Tuninetti (Mendoza, Argentina)
                                                --
                                              • Barbara Kallaur
                                                Colleagues: Rod Cameron has asked me to edit some of our private correspondence that resulted from this thread, and it may well need to be under a new topic. I
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Apr 3, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Colleagues: 

                                                  Rod Cameron has asked me to edit some of our private correspondence that resulted from this thread, and it may well need to be under a new topic. I have included Rod's original post which prompted the discussion. Below are some of our thoughts:

                                                  From Rod Cameron: Early Flute Group, March 11. 2007

                                                  Both of these originals have big playing problems, and these need to be unravelled if  they are to play well as so-called 'copies'. Sometimes very good results can come of this, but we can hardly say that we now have a 'copy'. What we have is a modern invention by the present day maker that indeed might be an excellent flute and have all the good characteristics needed for a flute of that period, but it will hardly be a 'copy'. Likewise any attempt to get the other Bressan flutes to work when they have such large chunks missing would hardly be called a 'copy'. If successful, these should rightly be called speculative experiments based upon filling in huge missing links, and unlikely to be anything that Bressan or Denner would own to.  Let me be the first to say that  the flute I offer in the style of the V and A Bressan had to have serious bore work to be made workable, and in doing this I leaned on some ideas from the work of Stanesby Junior who was in London in Bressan's time, who also made traversi with tenoned headjoints like Bressan, and who favored big fat interiors like Bressan. The two makers had different voicing styles, and Stanesby Junior favored very small voicings.

                                                  When I look around today, I see many fine flute makers who work carefully, and I see many fine players who are also scholars in appropriate historical performance, and so I feel that there is plenty informed opinion to let an experimenting flutemaker try her/his hand at speculative construction of a part-missing flute, etc. Feedback as to whether the experiment works will come fast and accurately from players and scholars, however we should not delude ourselves into thinking that the results are anything other than a new and workable flute design. Let me restate that I think this is a good thing to be trying, and why should we not work in this way ...more or less designing from scratch, since that's what most 18th century makers did. My main point is that I should be clearly labeling the work as such.  It would also be very good if any critiques of these attempts where from players who were thoroughly informed on the playing characteristics of good surviving originals.

                                                  Let me end with my oft-repeated opinion. I find drawings to be valuable. I have many of my own, and I like to cross check when possible with the drawings of others, yet our chances of capturing the true character of an original flute by working only from a set of drawings are about nil. Do what you can, legitimately, to allow you to play the original, albeit only for a short and therefore safe period, and try to do that more than once, particularly when you have your 'copy' side by side with the original.

                                                  From Barbara Kallaur , private email:

                                                  I read your post with interest, and do have a  comment which has to do with the flute and the player. As you may know, I bought Mr. Willoughby's Schuchart about a decade ago, and it has taken me many years to really figure out how to play this instrument. Several people have referred to the assumed sound of the flute (without having heard it) as being "wimpy"--I suspect because the embouchure hole is so small--It is not "wimpy" --I just played a double concerto with Bart Kuijken and the volume of the instrument matched his J H Rottenberg (Tutz) amazingly well. The Schuchart is not, however, a flute for a modern doubler--the embouchure hole, being tiny, requires playing down into the instrument--not just blowing across. The flute insists on a small volume of air and wide open facial cavities for resonance.  The bore is pretty big for a later flute and hugely undercut, but it has a very refined sound. It has been a tremendous teacher, as I can't go back to the maker and ask for things to be fixed.

                                                  What worries me is that in an effort to make instruments suitable to modern tastes and chequebooks, we are losing some idiosyncracies that can make an instrument charming.   What am I asking is that makers not dismiss peculiarities because they assume they can't work--sometimes they can. I fear that we might be headed towards a Brannen-ization of the traverso. There is no one flute that can do everything--

                                                  From Rod Cameron, private email:

                                                  I could not agree with you more, about not jumping in and tweaking our so called 'copies' of originals just because they do not immediately respond to the modern lip and today's ideas of what is the correct way to play or to assume that the ear was always expecting certain intervals. I think I remember Bart (Kuijken) saying in one of our conversations that probably 18th century ears had more acceptance of a sharpish 'f ' natural.

                                                  I should also make note here that my colleague, Ardal Powell, is on record in previous 'earlyflute' postings, warning against a rush to judgement, in assuming that the original instrument is at fault, and I share his view. Let us first explore every possible way of addressing the flute, before we look to any later influences on the instrument such as the ravages of time, warping over the years, etc., or even that in its original condition, was the flute not quite perfect. Your experience shows us again that in yielding to the flute, we can indeed learn so much about the possible aesthetics of addressing it in bygone years, and in making those discoveries, when perseverance delivers, it is like finding gold nuggets!

                                                • rod cameron
                                                  Thank you, Barbara, for letting read of your experiences below! Roderick Cameron PO Box 438 10580 Williams Street Mendocino, CA 95460, USA Telelphone: studio
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Apr 3, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Thank you, Barbara, for letting read of your experiences below!

                                                    Roderick Cameron
                                                    PO Box 438
                                                    10580 Williams Street
                                                    Mendocino, 
                                                    CA 95460,  USA
                                                    Telelphone:  
                                                    studio 707 937 0412
                                                    Home 707 937 9921
                                                    cell:    707 813 7593



                                                    On Apr 3, 2007, at 11:31 AM, Barbara Kallaur wrote:


                                                    Colleagues: 

                                                    Rod Cameron has asked me to edit some of our private correspondence that resulted from this thread, and it may well need to be under a new topic. I have included Rod's original post which prompted the discussion. Below are some of our thoughts:

                                                    From Rod Cameron: Early Flute Group, March 11. 2007

                                                    Both of these originals have big playing problems, and these need to be unravelled if  they are to play well as so-called 'copies'. Sometimes very good results can come of this, but we can hardly say that we now have a 'copy'. What we have is a modern invention by the present day maker that indeed might be an excellent flute and have all the good characteristics needed for a flute of that period, but it will hardly be a 'copy'. Likewise any attempt to get the other Bressan flutes to work when they have such large chunks missing would hardly be called a 'copy'. If successful, these should rightly be called speculative experiments based upon filling in huge missing links, and unlikely to be anything that Bressan or Denner would own to.  Let me be the first to say that  the flute I offer in the style of the V and A Bressan had to have serious bore work to be made workable, and in doing this I leaned on some ideas from the work of Stanesby Junior who was in London in Bressan's time, who also made traversi with tenoned headjoints like Bressan, and who favored big fat interiors like Bressan. The two makers had different voicing styles, and Stanesby Junior favored very small voicings.

                                                    When I look around today, I see many fine flute makers who work carefully, and I see many fine players who are also scholars in appropriate historical performance, and so I feel that there is plenty informed opinion to let an experimenting flutemaker try her/his hand at speculative construction of a part-missing flute, etc. Feedback as to whether the experiment works will come fast and accurately from players and scholars, however we should not delude ourselves into thinking that the results are anything other than a new and workable flute design. Let me restate that I think this is a good thing to be trying, and why should we not work in this way ...more or less designing from scratch, since that's what most 18th century makers did. My main point is that I should be clearly labeling the work as such.  It would also be very good if any critiques of these attempts where from players who were thoroughly informed on the playing characteristics of good surviving originals.

                                                    Let me end with my oft-repeated opinion. I find drawings to be valuable. I have many of my own, and I like to cross check when possible with the drawings of others, yet our chances of capturing the true character of an original flute by working only from a set of drawings are about nil. Do what you can, legitimately, to allow you to play the original, albeit only for a short and therefore safe period, and try to do that more than once, particularly when you have your 'copy' side by side with the original.

                                                    From Barbara Kallaur , private email:

                                                    I read your post with interest, and do have a  comment which has to do with the flute and the player. As you may know, I bought Mr. Willoughby's Schuchart about a decade ago, and it has taken me many years to really figure out how to play this instrument. Several people have referred to the assumed sound of the flute (without having heard it) as being "wimpy"--I suspect because the embouchure hole is so small--It is not "wimpy" --I just played a double concerto with Bart Kuijken and the volume of the instrument matched his J H Rottenberg (Tutz) amazingly well. The Schuchart is not, however, a flute for a modern doubler--the embouchure hole, being tiny, requires playing down into the instrument--not just blowing across. The flute insists on a small volume of air and wide open facial cavities for resonance.  The bore is pretty big for a later flute and hugely undercut, but it has a very refined sound. It has been a tremendous teacher, as I can't go back to the maker and ask for things to be fixed.

                                                    What worries me is that in an effort to make instruments suitable to modern tastes and chequebooks, we are losing some idiosyncracies that can make an instrument charming.   What am I asking is that makers not dismiss peculiarities because they assume they can't work--sometimes they can. I fear that we might be headed towards a Brannen-ization of the traverso. There is no one flute that can do everything--

                                                    From Rod Cameron, private email:

                                                    I could not agree with you more, about not jumping in and tweaking our so called 'copies' of originals just because they do not immediately respond to the modern lip and today's ideas of what is the correct way to play or to assume that the ear was always expecting certain intervals. I think I remember Bart (Kuijken) saying in one of our conversations that probably 18th century ears had more acceptance of a sharpish 'f ' natural.

                                                    I should also make note here that my colleague, Ardal Powell, is on record in previous 'earlyflute' postings, warning against a rush to judgement, in assuming that the original instrument is at fault, and I share his view. Let us first explore every possible way of addressing the flute, before we look to any later influences on the instrument such as the ravages of time, warping over the years, etc., or even that in its original condition, was the flute not quite perfect. Your experience shows us again that in yielding to the flute, we can indeed learn so much about the possible aesthetics of addressing it in bygone years, and in making those discoveries, when perseverance delivers, it is like finding gold nuggets!



                                                  • Sid Glickman
                                                    Hi. Could you steer me in the right direction. I m trying to learn how to make and fit Ivory rings to some of the Flutes in my collection. Is there any printed
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Apr 4, 2007
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Hi. Could you steer me in the right direction. I'm trying to learn how to make and fit Ivory rings to some of the  Flutes in my collection. Is there any printed material that you are aware of, are any person who could be helpful? Thanks, Sid Glickman


                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: rod cameron
                                                      Sent: Apr 3, 2007 3:03 PM
                                                      To: earlyflute@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [earlyflute] Re: Bressan-Miller

                                                      Thank you, Barbara, for letting read of your experiences below!


                                                      Roderick Cameron
                                                      PO Box 438
                                                      10580 Williams Street
                                                      Mendocino, 
                                                      CA 95460,  USA
                                                      Telelphone:  
                                                      studio 707 937 0412
                                                      Home 707 937 9921
                                                      cell:    707 813 7593



                                                      On Apr 3, 2007, at 11:31 AM, Barbara Kallaur wrote:


                                                      Colleagues: 

                                                      Rod Cameron has asked me to edit some of our private correspondence that resulted from this thread, and it may well need to be under a new topic. I have included Rod's original post which prompted the discussion. Below are some of our thoughts:

                                                      From Rod Cameron: Early Flute Group, March 11. 2007

                                                      Both of these originals have big playing problems, and these need to be unravelled if  they are to play well as so-called 'copies'. Sometimes very good results can come of this, but we can hardly say that we now have a 'copy'. What we have is a modern invention by the present day maker that indeed might be an excellent flute and have all the good characteristics needed for a flute of that period, but it will hardly be a 'copy'. Likewise any attempt to get the other Bressan flutes to work when they have such large chunks missing would hardly be called a 'copy'. If successful, these should rightly be called speculative experiments based upon filling in huge missing links, and unlikely to be anything that Bressan or Denner would own to.  Let me be the first to say that  the flute I offer in the style of the V and A Bressan had to have serious bore work to be made workable, and in doing this I leaned on some ideas from the work of Stanesby Junior who was in London in Bressan's time, who also made traversi with tenoned headjoints like Bressan, and who favored big fat interiors like Bressan. The two makers had different voicing styles, and Stanesby Junior favored very small voicings.

                                                      When I look around today, I see many fine flute makers who work carefully, and I see many fine players who are also scholars in appropriate historical performance, and so I feel that there is plenty informed opinion to let an experimenting flutemaker try her/his hand at speculative construction of a part-missing flute, etc. Feedback as to whether the experiment works will come fast and accurately from players and scholars, however we should not delude ourselves into thinking that the results are anything other than a new and workable flute design. Let me restate that I think this is a good thing to be trying, and why should we not work in this way ...more or less designing from scratch, since that's what most 18th century makers did. My main point is that I should be clearly labeling the work as such.  It would also be very good if any critiques of these attempts where from players who were thoroughly informed on the playing characteristics of good surviving originals.

                                                      Let me end with my oft-repeated opinion. I find drawings to be valuable. I have many of my own, and I like to cross check when possible with the drawings of others, yet our chances of capturing the true character of an original flute by working only from a set of drawings are about nil. Do what you can, legitimately, to allow you to play the original, albeit only for a short and therefore safe period, and try to do that more than once, particularly when you have your 'copy' side by side with the original.

                                                      From Barbara Kallaur , private email:

                                                      I read your post with interest, and do have a  comment which has to do with the flute and the player. As you may know, I bought Mr. Willoughby's Schuchart about a decade ago, and it has taken me many years to really figure out how to play this instrument. Several people have referred to the assumed sound of the flute (without having heard it) as being "wimpy"--I suspect because the embouchure hole is so small--It is not "wimpy" --I just played a double concerto with Bart Kuijken and the volume of the instrument matched his J H Rottenberg (Tutz) amazingly well. The Schuchart is not, however, a flute for a modern doubler--the embouchure hole, being tiny, requires playing down into the instrument--not just blowing across. The flute insists on a small volume of air and wide open facial cavities for resonance.  The bore is pretty big for a later flute and hugely undercut, but it has a very refined sound. It has been a tremendous teacher, as I can't go back to the maker and ask for things to be fixed.

                                                      What worries me is that in an effort to make instruments suitable to modern tastes and chequebooks, we are losing some idiosyncracies that can make an instrument charming.   What am I asking is that makers not dismiss peculiarities because they assume they can't work--sometimes they can. I fear that we might be headed towards a Brannen-ization of the traverso. There is no one flute that can do everything--

                                                      From Rod Cameron, private email:

                                                      I could not agree with you more, about not jumping in and tweaking our so called 'copies' of originals just because they do not immediately respond to the modern lip and today's ideas of what is the correct way to play or to assume that the ear was always expecting certain intervals. I think I remember Bart (Kuijken) saying in one of our conversations that probably 18th century ears had more acceptance of a sharpish 'f ' natural.

                                                      I should also make note here that my colleague, Ardal Powell, is on record in previous 'earlyflute' postings, warning against a rush to judgement, in assuming that the original instrument is at fault, and I share his view. Let us first explore every possible way of addressing the flute, before we look to any later influences on the instrument such as the ravages of time, warping over the years, etc., or even that in its original condition, was the flute not quite perfect. Your experience shows us again that in yielding to the flute, we can indeed learn so much about the possible aesthetics of addressing it in bygone years, and in making those discoveries, when perseverance delivers, it is like finding gold nuggets!



                                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.