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Re: How to stain with nitric acid

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  • YANAGITA tokinori
    Mr. Eguchi Thank you for the following horror story. ... every one. ... about the ... converting the ... but aged ... its
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 1, 2006
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      Mr. Eguchi
      Thank you for the following horror story.

      --- In earlyflute@yahoogroups.com, "T. Eguchi" <t-eguchi@w...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi, Mr Yanagita,
      >
      > Last year, I attended a masterclass held by Mr Masahiro Arita.
      > There he mentioned his own experience of staining flute by nitric
      > acid.
      >
      > In fact, he strongly warned against amateurs doing it. He himself
      > had an awful experience of his hand accidentaly touching the acid
      > and he said the acid "eat into" his hand and it was painful as hell!
      >
      > He grimly warned that, if something goes wrong, it could completely
      > ruin the heedless amateur's life....
      >
      > Well, the horror story just came to my mind. Please take care.
      >
      > Tomoaki Eguchi
      > Fukuoka, Japan
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > "YANAGITA tokinori" <yanagita@w...> wrote:
      >
      > >Hello, Terry
      > >
      > >Thank you for your advise.
      > >Although I scanning it, I could not find it.
      > >I will try.
      > >I know the way with Hair dye and I also think safe way.
      > >
      > >YANAGITA tokinori
      > >
      > >--- In earlyflute@yahoogroups.com, Terry McGee <terry@m...> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> At 06:29 PM 24/12/2005, YANAGITA tokinori wrote:
      > >>
      > >> >Hello, Every one
      > >> >
      > >> >I could make my first flute after J.J.Quantz & thank you for
      every one.
      > >> >I have a problem about staining.
      > >> >
      > >> >I want to use the Nitric acid and want to get the infomation
      about the
      > >> >way of staining with Nitric acid.
      > >>
      > >> Hmmm, I've done staining by Nitric acid, but would like to try
      > >alternative
      > >> means (with small kids around these days, I'd rather not have nitric
      > >in the
      > >> workshop). I've used hair dye most successfully on cocus (Decore's
      > >> Brazilia) , and I understand Fred Morgan used hair dye on boxwood.
      > >Anyone
      > >> had any positive personal experience? I'd be aiming at
      converting the
      > >> lemon colour of fresh boxwood to the amber colour of unstained
      but aged
      > >> boxwood.
      > >>
      > >> I think Rod has previously written here about using Nitric, so I
      > >suggest
      > >> scanning through the archives.
      > >>
      > >> Terry
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Terry McGee
      > >>
      > >> 61 Calder Crescent, Holder ACT 2611 Australia
      > >> Phone +61 (0)2 6288 8006, Fax +61 (0)2 6287 4263
      > >> Skype name: mcgee-flutes
      > >> mailto: terry@m...
      > >> http://www.mcgee-flutes.com
      > >>
      > >> - wooden flutes for Irish and classical music
      > >> - wooden flute research, restorations and repairs
      > >> - maintenance, National Carillon.
      > >>
      > >> ----------
      > >> Assisted by the Commonwealth Government through the Australia
      > >Council, its
      > >> arts funding and advisory body, and by the ACT Government through
      its
      > >> Cultural Council.
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • YANAGITA tokinori
      I tried neutralizing by the Sodium hydroxide. but It s not good, some black parts appear. ... st results, and all the people ... and the ... (Decore s
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 15 2:10 AM
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        I tried neutralizing by the Sodium hydroxide.
        but It's not good, some black parts appear.

        --- In earlyflute@yahoogroups.com, andreas.klein-franke@... wrote:
        >
        > Hello, thank you. 2 or three days should be enough. Good luck! Andreas
        >
        >
        >
        > Zitiere YANAGITA tokinori <yanagita@...>:
        >
        > > Hello, Andreas Happly holiday !
        > >
        > > Thank you for your reply & I have a question about your advise.
        > >
        > > How do you mean "a couple of days", 2-3 days or 2-3 weeks ?
        > > How long you soak flute in linseed oil to neutralize ?
        > >
        > > Sincerely yours
        > >
        > > tokinori
        > > --- In earlyflute@yahoogroups.com, andreas.klein-franke@u... wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello and nice christmas everyone,
        > > >
        > > > I never made good experience with hairdye, although I know that Fred
        > > Morgan
        > > > used and Tim Prescott uses it. I like everything Fred Morgan did
        > > exept for his
        > > > staining.
        > > > For my taste, nitric acid gives the be
        st results, and all the people
        > > who (I
        > > > think) make really good stainings (Rod Cameron or Ardal Powell for
        > > instance)
        > > > use it. Using nitric acid is a bit risky: never use it without
        > > ventilation (
        > > > always use it outdoor), never inhale it and never expose your eyes
        > > or skin.
        > > > So, wear strong household gloves and glasses. The most dangerous
        > > thing would
        > > > be to dilute it the wrong way: always add acid to water, NEVER add
        > > water to
        > > > acid.
        > > > Staining results will depend on the concentration (I use 53%)
        and the
        > >
        > > > temperature (higher will give you a stronger colour, use a
        > > hair-drier). Adding
        > > > some iron will give a dark colour tending to black. As a source of
        > > iron you
        > > > could use a small iron nail for about 30 or 40 ml of acid. Steel
        > > nails contain
        > > > chromium or other metals which could give an ugly, greenish colour.
        > > If you
        > > > wish to imitate old, unstained boxwood, dilute the acid to about
        > > 20%. This may
        > > > give an amber colour. Always try with some cutoff blanks before
        > > staining a
        > > > flute.
        > > > After staining, the acid will have to be neutralized: don't use
        > > steel wool
        > > > before, else you will get ugly black freckles. The best way to
        > > neutralize the
        > > > acid I got, again, from Rod: insert the flute in watm linseed oil
        > > for a couple
        > > > of days. Other wayof neutralizing would be ammonia or baking powder
        > > solution,
        > > > but I heard they will not give that good results, I never tried
        > > myself.
        > > >
        > > > Good luck and a lot of chrismas gteetings from snowy Tyrol, Andreas
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Zitiere Terry McGee <terry@m...>:
        > > >
        > > > > At 06:29 PM 24/12/2005, YANAGITA tokinori wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > >Hello, Every one
        > > > > >
        > > > > >I could make my first flute after J.J.Quantz & thank you for
        > > every
        > > > > one.
        > > > > >I have a problem about staining.
        > > > > >
        > > > > >I want to use the Nitric acid and want to get the infomation
        > > about
        > > > > the
        > > > > >way of staining with Nitric acid.
        > > > >
        > > > > Hmmm, I've done staining by Nitric acid, but would like to try
        > > > > alternative
        > > > > means (with small kids around these days, I'd rather not have
        > > nitric in
        > > > > the
        > > > > workshop). I've used hair dye most successfully on cocus
        (Decore's
        > >
        > > > > Brazilia) , and I understand Fred Morgan used hair dye on boxwood.
        > >
        > > > > Anyone
        > > > > had any positive personal experience? I'd be aiming at converting
        > > the
        > > > >
        > > > > lemon colour of fresh boxwood to the amber colour of unstained but
        > > aged
        > > > >
        > > > > boxwood.
        > > > >
        > > > > I think Rod has previously written here about using Nitric, so I
        > > suggest
        > > > >
        > > > > scanning through the archives.
        > > > >
        > > > > Terry
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Terry McGee
        > > > >
        > > > > 61 Calder Crescent, Holder ACT 2611 Australia
        > > > > Phone +61 (0)2 6288 8006, Fax +61 (0)2 6287 4263
        > > > > Skype name: mcgee-flutes
        > > > > mailto: terry@m...
        > > > > http://www.mcgee-flutes.com
        > > > >
        > > > > - wooden flutes for Irish and classical music
        > > > > - wooden flute research, restorations and repairs
        > > > > - maintenance, National Carillon.
        > > > >
        > > > > ----------
        > > > > Assisted by the Commonwealth Government through the Australia
        > > Council,
        > > > > its
        > > > > arts funding and advisory body, and by the ACT Government through
        > > its
        > > > > Cultural Council.
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Jean-Francois Beaudin
        I just got a demand for flute drawings including the Graz Hotteterre. I never had the chance to see closely and make a drawing of this flute. Is there anyone
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 21 2:25 PM
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          I just got a demand for flute drawings including the Graz Hotteterre. I never had the chance to see closely and make a drawing of this flute. Is there anyone here who can offer a complete one for my customer that I could refer outside this group ? 
          Other question: Is there a website were we can find a photo of the original ?  Maybe at the museum ?

          Jean-François




          Jean-François Beaudin
          312 Chemin Richford
          Frelighsburg, Quebec,
          Canada. J0J 1C0  
          Tel : (450) 298-5161
          Fax : (450) 298-5161
          jfbeaudin@...
          www.flute-beaudin.com
        • Ardal Powell
          Hi Jean-Francois, I spent a day with the Graz Hotteterre in (I think) 1992, and was able to play and photograph it and make mouldings of the embouchure and
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 21 2:56 PM
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            Hi Jean-Francois,

            I spent a day with the Graz Hotteterre in (I think) 1992, and was able
            to play and photograph it and make mouldings of the embouchure and
            toneholes. I didn't take full measurements but just checked the ones I
            had from various sources, which I've since compiled into a
            drawing--not as elegant as yours, just a working sketch! If you have
            your customer get in touch I'll be glad to help out.

            All best,
            Ardal
            ___________________________________________________________
            Ardal Powell * ardal@...
            Folkers & Powell, Makers of Historical Flutes *
            http://www.baroqueflute.com
            Full Circle Flute Co Ltd * http://www.headjoints.com
          • rod cameron
            Mon ami, Jean-François, I visited the Graz museum in Austria in 1978 and made a bore scan of the interior of the Hotteterre plus a drawing and some photos. I
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 21 9:47 PM
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              Mon ami, Jean-François,

              I visited the Graz museum in Austria in 1978 and made a bore scan of the interior of the Hotteterre plus a drawing and some photos. I have checked this against Friedrich's measurements and another set.

              Certainly I can e mail you a copy of my results. For my lip, at that date the flute played at about A396.

              The A octave was bad, and since my electronic bore measurer is able to measure "chambering" accurately, the scan showed a big squeeze in the bore under the top middle joint tenon caused by the thread wrapping. The tenon is approximately mid way between the mouth hole and the number three hole, which vents the A note, so the squeeze in the bore is at the nodal point governing the A octave and  contributes to the narrowing of this octave ... that is what the player observes in this original. So I would suggest NOT to incorporate this feature in your "copy", as it is almost certainly one of the ravages of time, and not the maker's intention.

              Drop me an e mail to remind me to send you the data?

              best

              Rod

              On Feb 21, 2006, at 2:25 PM, Jean-Francois Beaudin wrote:

              I just got a demand for flute drawings including the Graz Hotteterre. I never had the chance to see closely and make a drawing of this flute. Is there anyone here who can offer a complete one for my customer that I could refer outside this group ? 
              Other question: Is there a website were we can find a photo of the original ?  Maybe at the museum ?

              Jean-François




              Jean-François Beaudin
              312 Chemin Richford
              Frelighsburg, Quebec,
              Canada. J0J 1C0  
              Tel : (450) 298-5161
              Fax : (450) 298-5161
              jfbeaudin@...
              www.flute-beaudin.com


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            • Philippe Allain-Dupré
              Cher Jean-François Il y a de belles photos de la flûte de Graz , entière et démontée en 5 parties dans : Gerhard Stradner, Musikinstrumente in Grazer
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 22 2:49 AM
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                Cher Jean-François

                Il y a de belles photos de la flûte de Graz , entière et démontée en 5 parties dans :

                Gerhard Stradner, Musikinstrumente in Grazer Sammlungen, Tabulae musicae Austriacae, 11 (Vienna: Verlag der Österreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften, 1986);

                Amitiés et à bientôt, si tu viens à Musicora
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:25 PM
                Subject: [earlyflute] Graz Hotteterre

                I just got a demand for flute drawings including the Graz Hotteterre. I never had the chance to see closely and make a drawing of this flute. Is there anyone here who can offer a complete one for my customer that I could refer outside this group ? 
                Other question: Is there a website were we can find a photo of the original ?  Maybe at the museum ?

                Jean-François




                Jean-François Beaudin
                312 Chemin Richford
                Frelighsburg, Quebec,
                Canada. J0J 1C0  
                Tel : (450) 298-5161
                Fax : (450) 298-5161
                jfbeaudin@...
                www.flute-beaudin.com
              • Jean-Francois Beaudin
                Just have a look at this Firth Hall & Pond boxwood flute.
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 7, 2006
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                  Just have a look at this '' Firth Hall & Pond" boxwood flute. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7395488523&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1



                  Jean-François Beaudin
                  312 Chemin Richford
                  Frelighsburg, Quebec,
                  Canada. J0J 1C0  
                  Tel : (450) 298-5161
                  Fax : (450) 298-5161
                  jfbeaudin@...
                  www.flute-beaudin.com

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