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removing pins

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  • Boaz Berney
    Speaking of removing keys - does anyone have tips about removing key pins which are stuck? i come across the problem very often with originals as well as with
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 1, 2003
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      Speaking of removing keys - does anyone have tips about removing key pins which are stuck?  i come across the problem very often with originals as well as with modern copies.  Sometimes heating the pin a bit helps, but often one just ends with a scratched instrument and a pin that has no ends anymore.  Any tips?
       
      Thanks,
      Boaz
    • Thomas Fehr
      Have you tried to heat with a strong low voltage DC-Source? Thomas ... -- Flötenbau Thomas Fehr Seestrasse 185 CH-8712 Stäfa +41 1 926 65 26
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 1, 2003
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        Have you tried to heat with a strong low voltage DC-Source?

        Thomas

        Boaz Berney wrote:
        > Speaking of removing keys - does anyone have tips about removing key
        > pins which are stuck? i come across the problem very often with
        > originals as well as with modern copies. Sometimes heating the pin a
        > bit helps, but often one just ends with a scratched instrument and a pin
        > that has no ends anymore. Any tips?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Boaz
        >
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      • Philippe Allain-Dupré
        Dear Boaz Very often the pin is rusty in the wood, at least with original instruments. Using a very cheap oil against rust or oxidization was succesfull for
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 1, 2003
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          Dear Boaz
          Very often the pin is rusty in the wood, at least with original instruments.
          Using a very cheap oil against rust or oxidization was succesfull for me., not altering the wood at all.
          Sincerely
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 1:59 PM
          Subject: [earlyflute] removing pins

          Speaking of removing keys - does anyone have tips about removing key pins which are stuck?  i come across the problem very often with originals as well as with modern copies.  Sometimes heating the pin a bit helps, but often one just ends with a scratched instrument and a pin that has no ends anymore.  Any tips?
           
          Thanks,
          Boaz


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • bethowen@aol.com
          In a message dated 12/1/2003 9:44:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, allain-dupre@club-internet.fr writes: Using a very cheap oil against rust or oxidization was
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 1, 2003
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            In a message dated 12/1/2003 9:44:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, allain-dupre@... writes:
            Using a very cheap oil against rust or oxidization was succesfull for me., not altering the wood at all.
            Sincerely
            Philippe Allain-Dupré
            WD-40?????????
             


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          • Campbell Laura M
            Hi, Try sewing machine oil. Worked like a charm on mine! Laura Campbell DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this e-mail may be
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 1, 2003
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              RE: [earlyflute] removing pins

              Hi,

                <WD-40?????????>

              Try sewing machine oil.  Worked like a charm on mine!

              Laura Campbell

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              Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorized.

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            • Rod Cameron
              Dear Boaz, I have read with interest your posting and the replies about the problem of stuck pins. It was fortunate that in some cases the various remedies of
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 1, 2003
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                Dear Boaz,

                I have read with interest your posting and the replies about the
                problem of stuck pins.

                It was fortunate that in some cases the various remedies of oil, etc.
                brought results, and these would be the first remedies to try, but that
                does not always work on really unfortunate cases such as a recent one
                where I had the responsibility of removing a pin on a Stanesby Junior
                original traverso. At some time in the past the silver pin had been
                lost and a hard steel shank from a small drill had been substituted.
                This steel pin had rusted itself to the wood with great tenacity and
                there was no way it was going to be coaxed out with any kind of release
                agent.

                I tried what has worked sometimes in the past...preparing a hollowed
                out saddle of wood that mates to the diameter of the key-boss on the
                foot-joint. The foot joint is placed between cone centers in the lathe
                and the headjoint spindled locked, as a way of holding it precisely,
                and the prepared wood saddle is positioned under the footjoint boss to
                give support directly under the pin hole.

                A drill that is slightly smaller in diameter than the stuck pin is then
                snapped off to leave only its smooth shank. The end of this steel pin
                is then ground flat to make a miniature hammering pin. The new 'pin'
                tool is then placed against the end of the stubborn key pin and a
                series of gentle taps is used to coax the stuck pin into free-ing the
                rusted bond with the wood. The above set-up allows the force of the
                small hammer blows to be accurately directed to the pin and at the same
                time not stress the wood too much.

                This has been known to work in the past, however in the Stanesby Junior
                case it did not work.

                What did work was the following...

                I made use of the zoom microscope that most silver engravers now use
                when working on very small silver canvases, as it can magnify to x30.
                Some of us flutemakers have a high speed dental handpiece in our
                toolkit for doing odd jobs. They are not expensive, run on air, and
                sound like the annoying drill the dentist uses on your mouth when he is
                digging out an old filling. For a dollar or two you can buy various
                diamond tipped cutters for this 400,000 rpm unit and cutter diameters
                can go down as small as .5mm. Using the microscope to see what one is
                doing, the dental handpiece is used to literally grind away the rusted
                steel pin much as a miner would go after a gold seam in a rock face.
                Working carefully, the steel pin was ground to dust without harming the
                wood. The operation is repeated on the other end, and when both sides
                have gotten as deep as to touch the key, the key should then lift out
                of the slot with the remainder of the pin still stuck in the key.

                When such sticky pins are encountered, there usually are signs of
                earlier damage. Cruder methods where first used to get the pin out in
                the case of the Stanesby. There was damage to the wood around the pin
                hole. With the pin removed safely, the damaged wood could be built up
                with a color matching sawdust bonded in with super glue to make a
                strong and respectable color match, before a proper silver pin is
                inserted to complete the repair.

                I hope you never have to use this technique...

                Rod Cameron


                On Monday, December 1, 2003, at 04:59 AM, Boaz Berney wrote:

                > Speaking of removing keys - does anyone have tips about removing key
                > pins which are stuck?  i come across the problem very often with
                > originals as well as with modern copies.  Sometimes heating the pin a
                > bit helps, but often one just ends with a scratched instrument and a
                > pin that has no ends anymore.  Any tips?
                >  
                > Thanks,
                > Boaz
                >
                <image.tiff>
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              • Terry McGee
                ... I use a similar technique to Rod s but with a few minor variants: - I made a pin-punch of required diameter simply by grinding down the smallest one I
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 1, 2003
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                  At 11:59 PM 1/12/2003, you wrote:
                  Speaking of removing keys - does anyone have tips about removing key pins which are stuck?  i come across the problem very often with originals as well as with modern copies.  Sometimes heating the pin a bit helps, but often one just ends with a scratched instrument and a pin that has no ends anymore.  Any tips?

                  I use a similar technique to Rod's but with a few minor variants:

                  - I made a pin-punch of required diameter simply by grinding down the smallest one I could buy in the shops
                  - I often get away with using the tool rest (suitably padded) to prevent the flute from rotating when the punch is tapped (depends on shape of piece)
                  - I sometimes use the chuck with a sleeve of plastic around the wood to prevent denting and spread the load (ditto)
                  - I sometimes have to use a Dremel with a fine engraving bit to square off the end of a sloping or ragged pin to ensure the pin punch doesn't slip off.  Easy under the microscope.

                  Important to test the pin punch in one of the other holes on the flute to make sure it is smaller than the pin diameter!  Not so easy on a 1-key I'll admit!

                  Another approach to the pin-punch is to drill into the end of a piece of metal rod, then loctite the drill (or part of it) into it facing out backwards.  Keep in mind that the pin punch doesn't have to go full length - once you get the pin moving, you can grab the other end with pliers.

                  I haven't had to try anything as adventurous as Rod's manual excavation of the entire pin, but we certainly shouldn't underestimate what we can achieve under the microscope.  I have re-established totally butchered slots in the tiny countersunk screws in a Rudall Rose Patent Head this way.

                  Coincidentally, I had to deal with a couple of stuck and mangled pins in a Clinton flute yesterday.  The Eb was the worst, and an attempt by a previous owner shows what happens if you try to do it without holding the work securely.  On the side of the block, the block was split where the force was applied at the wrong angle, and on the top of the block was a big gash leading away in a curve where the tool had slipped and scored the wood.  Obviously the attempt to remove the pin had failed, as the pad was old, shrunken and leaking hopelessly.  Held securely in the lathe, one tap with the trusty pin punch and we were in business.

                  Terry

                                    Terry McGee

                           61 Calder Crescent, Holder ACT 2611 Australia
                            Phone +61 (0)2 6288 8006, Fax +61 (0)2 6287 4263       
                           mailto: terry@...                   
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