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RE: [dxatlas] faros - very long delay time?

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  • Dave
    Hi Ted- It really happened. And has happened. No much, but, yes, a bit of a change. Made the day longer by milliseconds. Faros might not detect it, but other
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 5, 2010
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      Hi Ted- It really happened. And has happened. No much, but, yes, a bit of a
      change. Made the day longer by milliseconds.
      Faros might not detect it, but other instruments did.

      Dave Mynatt
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      -----Original Message-----
      From: dxatlas_group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dxatlas_group@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Ted Roycraft
      Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 14:04
      To: dxatlas_group@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [dxatlas] faros - very long delay time?

      Oh, please!!!!! And maybe Venus is going to come out of its orbit and
      collide with the Earth.

      Ted, W2ZK

      On 3/5/2010 5:28 PM, Bruce Tanner wrote:
      >
      > Wow! I don't know if this is of any value or significance to the
      > issue, Jerry, but I have heard that an effect of the recent Earthquake
      > in Chile there scientists have been able to record both a very minor
      > change in the tilt of the Earth on her axis and a very slight speed up
      > (I think) of the period of rotation. Could that be showing up in the Faros
      data?
      > The Chilean earthquake was about two weeks ago now, Feb. 27.
      >
      > Ref:
      > http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010mar
      > 04
      > <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010ma
      > r04>
      >
      > There are other reports if you Google 'earthquake rotation axis'.
      >
      > Bruce, K2BET
      > -------------------
      >
      > On 3/5/2010 8:02 AM, Jerry Flanders wrote:
      > >
      > > Faros was running FB until a couple weeks ago, with almost all
      > > delays on the short path line as expected. Now delays appear to be
      > > in the range of 200 - 300 ms and all delay points are at top of details
      screen.
      > >
      > > I can't find any setting that appears wrong to me. I have
      > > uninstalled and reinstalled Faros - no help.
      > >
      > > Current settings:
      > > Signal delay red vertical line is about 17 ms with a "normal" (no
      > > pun
      > > intended) distribution of green lines centering at about 15 ms,
      > > extending from about 0 to about 46 ms.
      > > Delay correction is set to 17 ms.
      > > UTC Clock info std error 0.99 ms, max error 18.6 ms.
      > >
      > > Log file shows even high SNR stations are recording delays of 200 -
      > > 300 ms.
      > >
      > > Any ideas?
      > >
      > > Jerry W4UK
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links




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    • Bruce Tanner
      test message ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 5, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        test message

        On 3/5/2010 6:41 PM, Bruce Tanner wrote:
        >
        > PS: The Earth didn't tilt that much!!
        >
        > :)
        >
        > On 3/5/2010 3:30 PM, Bruce Tanner wrote:
        > >
        > > Your message below is reporting my earlier response as time stamped at
        > > "5:28 PM"! What is that all about?
        > >
        > > Bruce
        > > ----------------
        > >
        > > On 3/5/2010 11:52 AM, Jerry Flanders wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Yes - that could be the problem ;-)
        > > >
        > > > Or maybe other factors as well.
        > > >
        > > > Anybody have any other ideas?
        > > >
        > > > Jerry W4UK
        > > >
        > > > At 05:28 PM 3/5/2010, you wrote:
        > > > >Wow! I don't know if this is of any value or significance to the
        > issue,
        > > > >Jerry, but I have heard that an effect of the recent Earthquake in
        > > Chile
        > > > >there scientists have been able to record both a very minor change in
        > > > >the tilt of the Earth on her axis and a very slight speed up (I
        > think)
        > > > >of the period of rotation. Could that be showing up in the Faros
        > data?
        > > > >The Chilean earthquake was about two weeks ago now, Feb. 27.
        > > > >
        > > > >Ref:
        > > >
        > >
        > >http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010mar04
        > <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010mar04>
        >
        > >
        > <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010mar04
        > <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010mar04>>
        >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010mar04
        > <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010mar04>
        >
        > >
        > <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010mar04
        > <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010mar04>>>
        > > > >
        > > > >There are other reports if you Google 'earthquake rotation axis'.
        > > > >
        > > > >Bruce, K2BET
        > > > >-------------------
        > > > >
        > > > >On 3/5/2010 8:02 AM, Jerry Flanders wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Faros was running FB until a couple weeks ago, with almost all
        > > delays
        > > > > > on the short path line as expected. Now delays appear to be in the
        > > > > > range of 200 - 300 ms and all delay points are at top of details
        > > > screen.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I can't find any setting that appears wrong to me. I have
        > > uninstalled
        > > > > > and reinstalled Faros - no help.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Current settings:
        > > > > > Signal delay red vertical line is about 17 ms with a "normal"
        > > (no pun
        > > > > > intended) distribution of green lines centering at about 15 ms,
        > > > > > extending from about 0 to about 46 ms.
        > > > > > Delay correction is set to 17 ms.
        > > > > > UTC Clock info std error 0.99 ms, max error 18.6 ms.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Log file shows even high SNR stations are recording delays of
        > 200 -
        > > > > > 300 ms.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Any ideas?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Jerry W4UK
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >------------------------------------
        > > > >
        > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dave Baxter
        Hi... When you did a re-install, did you clean out (after backing up) all the old data? Only ask, as what you see in the delay statistics, may be from the
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 8, 2010
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          Hi...

          When you did a re-install, did you clean out (after backing up) all the
          old data?

          Only ask, as what you see in the delay statistics, may be from the prior
          install, if you just installed over the old one.

          It's always worth clearing that data in the app, then letting the system
          gather new data for a day or so, before deciding what's going on. You
          may find a new peak in the data up in the 100's of mS as a result.

          If so....

          Check your NTP time source(s). It's not unknown for ISP's to do silly
          things, like decide to take a NTP server off the public access list, or
          to move the service to another system that varies so much as to make it
          useless for apps'a like Faros.

          Faros is also "a little unkind" to NTP servers too I've been told, due
          to the poll rate it uses, from prolonged discussions on a NTP newsgroup
          with people who are "in the know" re these things.
          (comp.protocols.time.ntp)

          I've ended up (for several reasons) creating my own local (on my LAN)
          NTP server, locked to GPS time, just like the beacons themselves. Not
          a trivial task as it turned out, but I started doing that based on this
          page. http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/NTP-on-Windows-serial-port.html

          There's a lot to read, and even then, it's not exactly a "how to" as to
          do it. But I can help there if needed. It does work, and works very
          well indeed, even running on Windows! More than good enough for Faros.

          Even without the GPS locking, a local NTP server on your LAN (even
          running in the background on an existing box) will service Faros just
          fine, and only sync periodicaly with external NTP sources, if you still
          have a good one or three to use.

          However... If your ISP or WAN provider is messing about, and the ping
          times to the servers vary significantly throught the day (as mine were
          doing) then you *need* the local GPS locked type of NTP source.

          Most ISP's sadly will be happy if their NTP servers are within 1S of
          each other, let alone within mS (or better) of UTC ticks. Contact them
          to complain about jitter and huge offsets, and if you find someone who
          doesnt think you're talking about FTP, they still wont have a clue what
          you're on about.

          Hope you find out what and why, and it's not NTP issues. Resolvable if
          that is the case, but it's a bit of a chore. Help available if needed.

          Regards.

          Dave G0WBX.
        • Bruce Tanner
          Jerry, an interesting article I just noticed that might pertain to this issue. A project worth following, I think. If NASA is concerned why not FAROS!?
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 11, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Jerry, an interesting article I just noticed that might pertain to this
            issue. A project worth following, I think. If NASA is concerned why not
            FAROS!?

            http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2010/11mar_figureaxis.htm

            Bruce

            -----------------------
            On 3/5/2010 5:28 PM, Bruce Tanner wrote:
            >
            > Wow! I don't know if this is of any value or significance to the issue,
            > Jerry, but I have heard that an effect of the recent Earthquake in Chile
            > there scientists have been able to record both a very minor change in
            > the tilt of the Earth on her axis and a very slight speed up (I think)
            > of the period of rotation. Could that be showing up in the Faros data?
            > The Chilean earthquake was about two weeks ago now, Feb. 27.
            >
            > Ref:
            > http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010mar04
            > <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/local/la-me-lost-time4-2010mar04>
            >
            > There are other reports if you Google 'earthquake rotation axis'.
            >
            > Bruce, K2BET
            > -------------------
            >
            > On 3/5/2010 8:02 AM, Jerry Flanders wrote:
            > >
            > > Faros was running FB until a couple weeks ago, with almost all delays
            > > on the short path line as expected. Now delays appear to be in the
            > > range of 200 - 300 ms and all delay points are at top of details screen.
            > >
            > > I can't find any setting that appears wrong to me. I have uninstalled
            > > and reinstalled Faros - no help.
            > >
            > > Current settings:
            > > Signal delay red vertical line is about 17 ms with a "normal" (no pun
            > > intended) distribution of green lines centering at about 15 ms,
            > > extending from about 0 to about 46 ms.
            > > Delay correction is set to 17 ms.
            > > UTC Clock info std error 0.99 ms, max error 18.6 ms.
            > >
            > > Log file shows even high SNR stations are recording delays of 200 -
            > > 300 ms.
            > >
            > > Any ideas?
            > >
            > > Jerry W4UK
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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