Re: [DUTCH OVEN COOKING] Re: Dutch oven pejorative? Was: Western cooking
- were you go to get this stroy about the dutch peddler?
--- big_ugly_mich@... wrote:
> Not to flog this topic to death, but this washttp://lewisandclarktrail.com/section2/sdcities/Yankton/cookoff/histo
> According to my Funk and Wagnall dictionary, there's
> a word that
> developed from an insult to settlers in New York who
> hailed from the Netherlands (Nether? Sounds
> perjorative to me). They
> had an affinity for a certain dairy product, and
> were thus
> called "John Cheese" by British settlers. They
> adapted this to
> address each other, and in their language, it came
> out Jan Kees.
> Now, New Yorkers and scores of others cheer for a
> baseball team out
> of the Bronx known as . . . the Yankees.
> --- In email@example.com,
> <salivanto@y...> wrote:
> > Dear Mark and Gary,
> > Thanks for your replies. The Dutch
> > story is one of three in common circulation. Most
> > them leave me wondering why the name "Dutch" stuck
> > only to the Dutch oven. For example, why is a
> > iron pan not called a "Dutch pan"? In the light
> > the many expressions including "Dutch" to mean
> > "inexpensive substitute" and the fact that a Dutch
> > oven is an inexpensive substitute for a "real
> > Occam's Razor would suggest a connection here.
> > Mark/Barbara wrote:
> > > If you research the origin of Dutch ovens, you
> > > find that there is no With reference to the
> > > tradition, we continue to use the Dutch oven
> just as
> > > the pioneers, chuckwagon cooks of the trail, the
> > > expedition of Lewis & Clark, and many others of
> > > heritage did a century or two ago.
> > I don't quite understand. What is a "With
> > Gary asked about Dutch doors. I had always
> > that this actually did mean "a style of door from
> > Netherlands." Contrast it to "French door" -- two
> > elegant doors which swing out into a garden. Some
> > descriptions of Dutch doors compare it to a stable
> > door, or say that they were originally intended to
> > keep animals out. Certainly a door which is too
> > "poor to go all the way to the top" could be put
> > down as a "Dutch" door - and then later evolve
> > a door with two pieces which swing out - just as
> > there are many "Dutch ovens" today which must be
> > used in a full sized oven.
> > Let us also not forget that there ARE expressions
> > common use which undoubtably started as slurs, but
> > which are not seen as such today. "Jurry rig"
> > as "Jerry rig" -- which was the way that the poor
> > German immigrants ("the jerries") had to make due
> > without the right equipment.
> > I took a peek on the internet for information on
> > "Dutch door". I was surprised to find several
> > in Dutch (which I can read more or less okay)
> > pejorative expressions in English. Unfortunately,
> > got many false hits since "door" is a common
> > preposition in Dutch.
> > Again, not everything on the internet is true, but
> > consider the following story which I found here
> > http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/awadmail115.html
> > From: Kay Wright (kwrightATwolfenet.com)
> > Subject: Potvaliant/Dutch courage
> > I need to share with you an experience I
> > had while living in The Netherlands.
> > I bragged to some of my Dutch friends about
> > our various charming (so I thought) expressions
> > such as Dutch treat, Dutch uncle, Dutch chorus,
> > Dutch oven, etc. Without exception, they reared
> > up to voice strong objection. They told me that
> > these expressions are all pejorative and
> > originated during a period of embattled
> > with England during the 17th Century. The
> > as often happens in war, demonized the Dutch by
> > portraying them as cheap, drunken, off-key and
> > incapable of cooking anything more
> > than a meal-in-a-pot. [snip]
> > Right or wrong, I'm not the first person to assume
> > that "Dutch oven" fits in the list of pejorative
> > English expressions including the word "Dutch."
> > that one etymology I checked says taht many of
> > expressions are OLDER than the 17th centry war.
> > The following page disputes some of the common
> > in circulation and proposes a third one -- but
> > ask the question "why not 'Dutch pan'?"
> > ry.htm__________________________________
> > Sometimes Dutch cheese really is Dutch cheese, but
> > given that Dutch ovens are American, there's got
> > be more to the story.
> > Thomas Alexander
> > Rochester NY
> > www.NightinGael.Net
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- Just a reminder - "Dutch oven" also is the term for a legless pot
with a lid for use on a stove top or in a conventional oven.
Also, I have heard that the Dutch East India Company stocked a lot of
the camp ovens for trading, and thus the name was transferred to the